Author Topic: Andy Robertson (Andrew Henry Robertson MBE)  (Read 779195 times)

Offline joekim87

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #160 on: July 25, 2017, 01:39:20 am »
He isn't that tall? Not good in the air? Do we have two fullbacks who aren't good in the air now? Just worried, not trolling...

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #161 on: July 25, 2017, 02:40:25 am »
He isn't that tall? Not good in the air? Do we have two fullbacks who aren't good in the air now? Just worried, not trolling...

Not many clubs have full backs that are good in the air really. Unless your team plays rugby rather than football.



Considering the primary job of full backs is to prevent the danger poised by small, nippy wingers... the best way to counter that is with small nippy full backs who are just as fact and just as agile as those they are marking. Otherwise you end up with this.


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Offline Purple Red

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #162 on: July 25, 2017, 07:28:49 am »


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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #163 on: July 25, 2017, 08:35:41 am »
I was reading an article yesterday saying he was similar to Moreno....

In theory. Oren could be a really good left back.. sadly he has no brain or self control.. maybe Robertson does?
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Offline Barefoot Doctor

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #164 on: July 25, 2017, 09:24:18 am »
He isn't that tall? Not good in the air? Do we have two fullbacks who aren't good in the air now? Just worried, not trolling...

I have no ideas where the worries over Robertson's height are coming from. He's taller than Clyne, Milner, Moreno and Trent. He might not be good in the air, but it's not because he's tiny.

Physically, the biggest issue with him is that he's a bit slight - doesn't have the stockiness like Clyne or Milner do.

Offline joekim87

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #165 on: July 25, 2017, 09:28:29 am »
Sounds good to me then!

Offline Doc Red

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #166 on: July 25, 2017, 10:19:55 am »
I was reading an article yesterday saying he was similar to Moreno....

In theory. Oren could be a really good left back.. sadly he has no brain or self control.. maybe Robertson does?

Won't be so worried if he is a bit of a tinman as he's off to see the wizard, thr wonderful wizard called Klopp.
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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #167 on: July 25, 2017, 10:44:59 am »
Won't be so worried if he is a bit of a tinman as he's off to see the wizard, thr wonderful wizard called Klopp.

The tinman didn't have a heart.

It was the scarecrow that lacked a brain!

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #168 on: July 25, 2017, 12:44:36 pm »
The tinman didn't have a heart.

It was the scarecrow that lacked a brain!


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Offline Purple Red

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #169 on: July 25, 2017, 01:48:20 pm »
I was reading an article yesterday saying he was similar to Moreno....

In theory. Oren could be a really good left back.. sadly he has no brain or self control.. maybe Robertson does?
I would say it's more than a maybe. Klopp wouldn't have opted for him if he was as weak a player as Moreno. Granted, there will be things he will need to work on but he will have the fundamentals our LBs currently lack.

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #170 on: July 25, 2017, 02:57:03 pm »
I would say it's more than a maybe. Klopp wouldn't have opted for him if he was as weak a player as Moreno. Granted, there will be things he will need to work on but he will have the fundamentals our LBs currently lack.

Don´t see how Moreno and Robertson are even remotely comparable. Moreno´s problem is that he perhaps dives in too much. Robertson´s numbers on the other hand are below average.

If you think the two numbers that measure how aggressively a player tries to win the ball would be tackling (winning from player) and interceptions (winning when between players). The highest two in the league by an absolute mile are Moreno & Flanagan. Therefore I see that as they both chase the ball, or are too aggressive, and get easily pulled out of defensive positions. At the other end of the scale, Clyne is 5th lowest in the league in terms of Tackles+Interceptions. I don´t watch Clyne and get the impression he is too passive, more than he picks his moments better perhaps. I rarely see him over commit, nor do I see him let players push him into the box due to an unwillingness to commit to prevent more dangerous positions being obtained by the opposition. Robertson is very close to Clyne on that list.

Player      Interceptions/90   Tackles/90     Tackles+Interceptions/90
Jon Flanagan      1,9   5,64      7,54
Alberto Moreno      2,23   4,34      6,57
Joe Average      1,7   2,4      4,1
James Milner      1,25   2,68      3,93
Andrew Robertson      1,81   1,74      3,55
Nathaniel Clyne      1,16   2,17      3,33

I have included the average for all left backs in the league as a point of reference.

Now obviously you have to take into account the team and system they play in and ask how that will affect Robertsons numbers when he plays here. However it´s clear that if we are comparing Robertson to someone at Liverpool he looks more like Clyne than Moreno/Flanagan. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 02:58:55 pm by BabuYagu »
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Offline mc_red22

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #171 on: July 25, 2017, 03:38:39 pm »
Don´t see how Moreno and Robertson are even remotely comparable. Moreno´s problem is that he perhaps dives in too much. Robertson´s numbers on the other hand are below average.

If you think the two numbers that measure how aggressively a player tries to win the ball would be tackling (winning from player) and interceptions (winning when between players). The highest two in the league by an absolute mile are Moreno & Flanagan. Therefore I see that as they both chase the ball, or are too aggressive, and get easily pulled out of defensive positions. At the other end of the scale, Clyne is 5th lowest in the league in terms of Tackles+Interceptions. I don´t watch Clyne and get the impression he is too passive, more than he picks his moments better perhaps. I rarely see him over commit, nor do I see him let players push him into the box due to an unwillingness to commit to prevent more dangerous positions being obtained by the opposition. Robertson is very close to Clyne on that list.

Player      Interceptions/90   Tackles/90     Tackles+Interceptions/90
Jon Flanagan      1,9   5,64      7,54
Alberto Moreno      2,23   4,34      6,57
Joe Average      1,7   2,4      4,1
James Milner      1,25   2,68      3,93
Andrew Robertson      1,81   1,74      3,55
Nathaniel Clyne      1,16   2,17      3,33

I have included the average for all left backs in the league as a point of reference.

Now obviously you have to take into account the team and system they play in and ask how that will affect Robertsons numbers when he plays here. However it´s clear that if we are comparing Robertson to someone at Liverpool he looks more like Clyne than Moreno/Flanagan.

Another thing to consider is how much Moreno gets targeted due to being out weakest full back when he's on the pitch. He's obviously going to get into more challenges and what have you when he's seeing more of the action coming his way. Also, Robertson was the strongest of the Hull full backs so he was probably targeted less than Elmohamady which may have something to do with his low numbers?

You do make a good point with his aggressive players like Flanagan & Moreno are. They're both players that see the ball and immediately want to charge towards it to avoid the player getting past them.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 03:40:12 pm by mc_red22 »

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #172 on: July 25, 2017, 04:03:38 pm »
Another thing to consider is how much Moreno gets targeted due to being out weakest full back when he's on the pitch. He's obviously going to get into more challenges and what have you when he's seeing more of the action coming his way. Also, Robertson was the strongest of the Hull full backs so he was probably targeted less than Elmohamady which may have something to do with his low numbers?

You do make a good point with his aggressive players like Flanagan & Moreno are. They're both players that see the ball and immediately want to charge towards it to avoid the player getting past them.

I looked and averaged out over a season, as the data is, the most lopsided of defences is still only 8% gap between center, left and right. When the numbers are more than double from one full back to the other, you can probably shave off 8% from the higher players but the 92% seems to simply be "I want ball, me get ball" :D
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Offline Floydy

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #173 on: July 25, 2017, 08:48:01 pm »
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Offline Redcap

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #174 on: July 26, 2017, 03:09:18 am »


Thanks mate.

Sorry if I've missed this bit, but how do you think Robertson's performances in a vastly more compact, defensive system at Hull translate to performances for us?

I noticed that Robertson made 1.81 interceptions a game for Hull, but I imagine that's partly due to having a more passive brief over there. For us, he'll be expected to do a lot more going forward, which I'd think would change the way he would play substantially?

Offline Doc Red

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #175 on: July 26, 2017, 06:04:12 am »
The tinman didn't have a heart.

It was the scarecrow that lacked a brain!

And clearly I lack a strong memory! ;D
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Offline SoftSouthernScouser

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #176 on: July 26, 2017, 09:56:14 am »
Good signing. Think he'll thrive in our system.

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #177 on: July 26, 2017, 10:10:27 am »
I like the fact Klopp isn't stupid and knows he's not a world beater, as in knows he has weaknesses. It shows he believes in him and must give the lad confidence even though he was far from first choice. I guess sessegnon/mendy/emerson were above him. But as Klopp proves he won't buy for sake of it.

I can see Robertson here for many years, maybe not a first choice but part of the squad. It's vital you have competition all over pitch.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 10:12:03 am by clinical »
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Offline Klippity Klopp

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #178 on: July 26, 2017, 10:34:12 am »
And clearly I lack a strong memory! ;D

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Offline Ravishing Rick Dude

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #179 on: July 26, 2017, 03:18:18 pm »
Can't wait to see him play
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Offline PeterTheRed ...

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #180 on: July 27, 2017, 11:12:45 pm »
The Andy Robertson story - From answering phones at Hampden Park to his Liverpool dream

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-andy-robertson-jurgen-klopp-13397200

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #181 on: July 27, 2017, 11:44:38 pm »
Really hope he makes it after reading that

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #182 on: July 30, 2017, 12:32:35 am »
His video against Hertha https://youtu.be/gQO3GwNqCfE
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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #183 on: July 30, 2017, 01:48:16 am »
Early days and barely tested but what I like about the lad is how calm he is in possession and when dealing with defensive danger. We've had too many mad defenders in recent years so even if Robertson is just the steady Eddie he's been tagged as, I'm fine with that.

Offline SMASHerano

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #184 on: July 30, 2017, 08:01:04 am »
I like him. His decision making looks good under pressure and he likes to get forward intelligently

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #185 on: July 30, 2017, 08:23:02 am »
I thought the major flaw in his performance was that he was tucking in to much defensively when the ball was on the right. Not an issue though. It's something that would have been trained into him at a defensive team because it is normally the right thing to do. The full back tucks in to a centre back position and the winger drops into the full back position. He won't get that level of protection here though and needs to adjust to leaving more gaps.
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Offline SinceSixtyFive

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #186 on: July 30, 2017, 08:27:12 am »
Thought he did really well yesterday and like the look of him. Confident - which is important.

Seemed to do the right things at the right time and appears a decent threat on the overlap.

Offline SteveLFC

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #187 on: July 30, 2017, 11:25:16 am »
Impressive debut overall. With Klopp coaching I have a really good feeling about this lad. His interviews are hugely impressive and shows confidence and maturity beyond his years. Loved his overlap yesterday, loved the vision he had on a couple of occasions turning defence into attack with a good direct pass or header. There are some obvious frailties as well that I am sure can be coached out of him. Look forward to seeing more of him this season.

Offline Notfromaroundhere

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #188 on: July 30, 2017, 12:33:41 pm »
Early days, but it looks like we have actually found ourselves a left back who is quick, makes good runs off the ball, can make good decisions and also cross the ball accurately (first time!) while running at relatively high speed.

It's almost too much for me to take in..

But seriously, I was positively surprised. Watched him a couple of times for Hull and didn't love his general play between the boxes. Thought his passing choices generally were quite poor. However, I thought he looked much better against Hertha. Composed, good passing choices. Also really liked that first action he made, the lovely first touch followed by a decent shot.

All in all a very positive first impression.

Offline Upinsmoke

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #189 on: July 30, 2017, 12:37:46 pm »
Early days, but it looks like we have actually found ourselves a left back who is quick, makes good runs off the ball, can make good decisions and also cross the ball accurately (first time!) while running at relatively high speed.



I swear someone would of posted something similar when Moreno first played :D

But yeah he looks good, and he uses his right foot if he needs too.

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #190 on: July 30, 2017, 12:37:53 pm »
Hopefully he develops into a decent left back.

I don't mean that as any slur on the lad it's just that we've had so many false dawns in that position that my mind keeps on telling me the last quality left back we had was Alan Kennedy but that could just be old age.

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #191 on: July 30, 2017, 12:40:25 pm »
Impressive debut overall. With Klopp coaching I have a really good feeling about this lad. His interviews are hugely impressive and shows confidence and maturity beyond his years. Loved his overlap yesterday, loved the vision he had on a couple of occasions turning defence into attack with a good direct pass or header. There are some obvious frailties as well that I am sure can be coached out of him. Look forward to seeing more of him this season.

I also think the fact that he has not had it easy, will mean he will fight that bit more. This is someone who has really had to earn the position he finds himself in now. I am sure that plus everything that he learns from the manager will enable him to recognise his true potential. I think this lad's journey will be really fascinating to watch.
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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #192 on: July 30, 2017, 12:44:18 pm »
The Andy Robertson story - From answering phones at Hampden Park to his Liverpool dream

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-andy-robertson-jurgen-klopp-13397200

That would be an interesting read but the Echo website is being its usual shite self.

Offline Notfromaroundhere

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #193 on: July 30, 2017, 01:01:30 pm »
I swear someone would of posted something similar when Moreno first played :D

But yeah he looks good, and he uses his right foot if he needs too.

Haha, oops! Maybe I should keep my mouth shut for now..  ;D

Offline BabuYagu

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #194 on: July 30, 2017, 01:48:11 pm »
Thanks mate.

Sorry if I've missed this bit, but how do you think Robertson's performances in a vastly more compact, defensive system at Hull translate to performances for us?

I noticed that Robertson made 1.81 interceptions a game for Hull, but I imagine that's partly due to having a more passive brief over there. For us, he'll be expected to do a lot more going forward, which I'd think would change the way he would play substantially?

Sorry I missed this before, working this past week.

I think in terms of what defenders do, that can be dictated by system and team than anything else. For example, Spurs as an entire team average 8 interceptions per game. Which means if you play full back for spurs you won´t get anywhere near how many Robertson has. Whereas West Ham average 16 per game.

I think this is due to how the teams defend. I am noticing a trend between passive defence (West Ham, Hull, Man United, Arsenal) and active defence (Spurs, Liverpool).

The more aggressive you press, the less interceptions you have. This is because you tend to force recoveries (sloppy passes direct to an opponent) rather than interceptions (player moves into the path of a pass) when pressing. Whereas in a more passive defence, you are mostly trying to stay compact, in shape and therefore can easily pick off a passing in tight passing lanes. Of course you can still see the individual behind the system. Davies and Rose look entirely different in their defensive numbers for example. Likewise Monreal and Gibbs (although I think that´s because the former is a very good player and the latter is a very shite player). Likewise Moreno-Flanagan-Milner-Clyne. They all look very different.

You can see, for example, Flanagan & Moreno tend to do actions that involve charging the ball. Tackles & Interceptions. Whereas Clyne is the opposite - he will keep his position, rarely foul, rarely be beaten, has lots of recoveries, blocked passes etc. Milner is a little of both. Robertson shows as a Clyne-like fullback in terms of approach to defending, which I think is a good thing. I haven´t looked at attacking numbers. I wanted to compare the Trippier, Davies & Alonso numbers from their old systems to new to see if there is an obvious trend.

I havent seen anything that concerns me though about Robertson. I was worried he was reckless in the penalty area but he had two moments last night and seems to favour not committing to trying to win the ball in a bad spot. Very encouraging.
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Offline PoetryInMotion

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #195 on: July 30, 2017, 01:53:06 pm »
Hopefully he develops into a decent left back.

I don't mean that as any slur on the lad it's just that we've had so many false dawns in that position that my mind keeps on telling me the last quality left back we had was Alan Kennedy but that could just be old age.

That fella Riise wasn't bad at his peak, was he?

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #196 on: July 30, 2017, 01:55:30 pm »
I thought the major flaw in his performance was that he was tucking in to much defensively when the ball was on the right. Not an issue though. It's something that would have been trained into him at a defensive team because it is normally the right thing to do. The full back tucks in to a centre back position and the winger drops into the full back position. He won't get that level of protection here though and needs to adjust to leaving more gaps.

Funny you mention that.

I paused the game last night at one point when the ball was pretty much in the center circle and our entire team was within the width of our penalty box on the pitch. Even though their right winger was standing on the right touch line and their left winger was out of shot on the left. We were really REALLY compact last night. Dortmund played compact too I remember although I cannot remember if it was ever to that extent. Now that could be because Gomez is a center back and Robertson is used to tucking in as you said, or that could have been tactical. It was really narrow though.

If tactical, my assumption would be that perhaps we weren´t concerned about the pace of their wide players and could get out to them easily enough. That we weren´t worried about early crosses from them as their forward (Ibisevic?) didn´t pose much an aerial threat. That they were using inverted wingers and therefore were more likely to cut in towards our full backs anyway than take the outside we gave them. (In a similar way sides did with Milner).
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Offline Hazell

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #197 on: July 30, 2017, 07:36:42 pm »
That fella Riise wasn't bad at his peak, was he?

I always think Riise gets kind of rough ride sometimes, his last 18 months here weren't great by any stretch but he was here for seven years and for most of that time, was never anything less than a very good player. He had his limitations but they never caused us any huge problems (else he'd have been sold a long time before was). And scored a few decent goals too.
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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #198 on: July 30, 2017, 08:25:17 pm »
Hopefully he develops into a decent left back.

I don't mean that as any slur on the lad it's just that we've had so many false dawns in that position that my mind keeps on telling me the last quality left back we had was Alan Kennedy but that could just be old age.

We've got to include Aurelio as good haven't we? Old age is making my mind go blank but who took over from Alan Kennedy?

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Re: Robertsoninho has signed
« Reply #199 on: July 30, 2017, 09:13:03 pm »
That fella Riise wasn't bad at his peak, was he?

Aurelio definitely was, Riise has always been a funny one for me because I think a lot of people remember his best moments for us and a lot of those memories come from when he was playing as a left midfielder and not a leftback, which sort of skews the mind into thinking he was something more in that position than maybe he was.

Honestly hope he can break a negative trend for us, he'll certainly create a fair few chances with that left peg of his thats for sure.