Topic: Bundesliga Thread

[Dim Glas]

Game of two halves innit, Dortmund well on top now. Some right mad misses though. How there’s only 2 goals in this I don’t know, Leverkusen had 10 shots on target, now Dortmund making chances for fun.

And now with 10 minutes to go, maybe a sucker punch from Leverkusen, a mix up in defence, and Wirtz finishes off the move emphatically.

[Dave McCoy]

Maybe Favre had lost the dressing room or maybe he would have resigned once it was clear Rose was coming in but man, this seems dicey for Dortmund.

[Dim Glas]

Up until this week, their results where fine, but yeah, this week has put a dent in it. But still better than under Favre I think, where there seemed to be ongoing issues that where not improving.

So making a change for me was the right choice, I guess they are taking a calculated risk though. IF they already have Marco Rose in agreement to join them, as seems to be the suggestion, then it may be a risk worth taking. But there are so many teams bunched up in those European spots, that there maybe 1 or 2 names missing out at the end of the season, and in the financial cliamte right now, that could be a huge issue. But I think Dortmund will be ok, I sort of expect 2 or 3 teams to start dropping off 2nd half of the season. Although who can tell!

[Dave McCoy]

Up until this week, their results where fine, but yeah, this week has put a dent in it. But still better than under Favre I think, where there seemed to be ongoing issues that where not improving.

So making a change for me was the right choice, I guess they are taking a calculated risk though. IF they already have Marco Rose in agreement to join them, as seems to be the suggestion, then it may be a risk worth taking. But there are so many teams bunched up in those European spots, that there maybe 1 or 2 names missing out at the end of the season, and in the financial cliamte right now, that could be a huge issue. But I think Dortmund will be ok, I sort of expect 2 or 3 teams to start dropping off 2nd half of the season. Although who can tell!

Eh?  A loss to Union Berlin and draw to Mainz is fine?  Now a loss to Leverkusen who had just looked awful the last couple of games.  I don't think the results have been "fine" but maybe I'm wrong.  What I do think is that regardless of what you think of Favre (I never cared for him) he's at least a known quantity unlike Terzic.

[Dim Glas]

Eh?  A loss to Union Berlin and draw to Mainz is fine?  Now a loss to Leverkusen who had just looked awful the last couple of games.  I don't think the results have been "fine" but maybe I'm wrong.  What I do think is that regardless of what you think of Favre (I never cared for him) he's at least a known quantity unlike Terzic.

Union seem to be doing rather well this season no?  Did I say a draw to Mainz is fine? Read the comment. Leverkusen had a dip, they are having a really good season and are a talented team - and again, did I not say ‘up until this week’. Again, ready, rather than rush to have a dig.

I try to engage with you here, but pretty much every response from you is always so prickly. Can’t be arsed with you.

[Dave McCoy]

Union seem to be doing rather well this season no?  Did I say a draw to Mainz is fine? Read the comment. Leverkusen had a dip, they are having a really good season and are a talented team - and again, did I not say ‘up until this week’. Again, ready, rather than rush to have a dig.

I try to engage with you here, but pretty much every response from you is always so prickly. Can’t be arsed with you.

Pretty sure we're just trading opinions and I even prefaced it with "maybe I'm wrong".  No worries, sorry to come off that way.

[Scottymuser]

Union seem to be doing rather well this season no?  Did I say a draw to Mainz is fine? Read the comment. Leverkusen had a dip, they are having a really good season and are a talented team - and again, did I not say ‘up until this week’. Again, ready, rather than rush to have a dig.

I try to engage with you here, but pretty much every response from you is always so prickly. Can’t be arsed with you.

Let's be honest - man for man, Dortmund are much, much stronger than Leverkusen - and no, for a team who are *clearly* the 2nd best squad in the country, there is no way that their performances the last 2 months have been "fine" - with Bayerns poor start they should be challenging for top spot.  I saw nothing at the weekend (although didn';t watch last nights match) vs Mainz to suggest they were capable of going on a roll to climb to 2nd and at least try and challenge Bayern either.     

[Dim Glas]

Let's be honest - man for man, Dortmund are much, much stronger than Leverkusen - and no, for a team who are *clearly* the 2nd best squad in the country, there is no way that their performances the last 2 months have been "fine" - with Bayerns poor start they should be challenging for top spot.  I saw nothing at the weekend (although didn';t watch last nights match) vs Mainz to suggest they were capable of going on a roll to climb to 2nd and at least try and challenge Bayern either.   

sure they are underperforming, but the results for a ‘rookie’ (hate using American sports terms, but in this instance it is the only one I have) coach taking over from a coach who’s been deteriorating for seemingly 2 years, actually where pretty much fine up until this week. As I said -this week, different story! The fine is in reference to where Dortmund are at this moment, regardless of squad, this is team who have been in flux and have had too many ups and downs over the past 5 years to pin it all on who is coaching them now, it’ll take a lot more to get them fully on track. It was ‘fine’ in comparison to earlier in the year. We have so many literal people on this forum it seems 

I didn’t see the weekend game either, but whatever it was like that result was poor.

I don’t care about Dortmund, in fact I like seeing them get beaten more often than not. All I am saying is that getting rid of Favre was the right decision, and not much of a risk, and if anyone wants to argue (politely) that it wasn’t, then go for it. But the team has regressed under him, and his limp personality wasn’t helping.

Last nights game could have gone either way. Dortmund let down by some awful finishing (sounds very familiar), after dominating the 2nd half. Dortmund also hampered by a decimated midfield last night. So yes, ‘on paper’ Leverkusen don’t have as strong a squad, but last night and I’d take Leverkusen’s staring midfield above what Dortmund put out, without a seconds thought.  And that was a big difference especially first half.

We’ll see what they do in the summer, if indeed Marco Rose is already ‘in the bag’.

[Scottymuser]

sure they are underperforming, but the results for a ‘rookie’ (hate using American sports terms, but in this instance it is the only one I have) coach taking over from a coach who’s been deteriorating for seemingly 2 years, actually where pretty much fine up until this week. As I said -this week, different story! The fine is in reference to where Dortmund are at this moment, regardless of squad, this is team who have been in flux and have had too many ups and downs over the past 5 years to pin it all on who is coaching them now, it’ll take a lot more to get them fully on track. It was ‘fine’ in comparison to earlier in the year. We have so many literal people on this forum it seems 

I didn’t see the weekend game either, but whatever it was like that result was poor.

I don’t care about Dortmund, in fact I like seeing them get beaten more often than not. All I am saying is that getting rid of Favre was the right decision, and not much of a risk, and if anyone wants to argue (politely) that it wasn’t, then go for it. But the team has regressed under him, and his limp personality wasn’t helping.

Last nights game could have gone either way. Dortmund let down by some awful finishing (sounds very familiar), after dominating the 2nd half. Dortmund also hampered by a decimated midfield last night. So yes, ‘on paper’ Leverkusen don’t have as strong a squad, but last night and I’d take Leverkusen’s staring midfield above what Dortmund put out, without a seconds thought.  And that was a big difference especially first half.

We’ll see what they do in the summer, if indeed Marco Rose is already ‘in the bag’.

Fair enough - I was talking a little more broadly about their coaching this year, not just the new coach.

I also 100% agree than getting rid of Favre was correct - but disagree that Terzic was the correct person to put in charge "for the rest of the season" even if Marco Rose was 100% signing to come in the summer - my first option would have been Rafa (yes, I know he is technically employed, but would he really turn down a chance to come back to Europe even as a caretaker - he did it for Chelsea FFS), but Allegri is available, and am sure there are others.

As for last nights teams - I'd take Dortmunds Defence and Attack, and Leverkusens MF - Dortmund were missing Can and Dahoud though definitely

[Dim Glas]

Fair enough - I was talking a little more broadly about their coaching this year, not just the new coach.

I also 100% agree than getting rid of Favre was correct - but disagree that Terzic was the correct person to put in charge "for the rest of the season" even if Marco Rose was 100% signing to come in the summer - my first option would have been Rafa (yes, I know he is technically employed, but would he really turn down a chance to come back to Europe even as a caretaker - he did it for Chelsea FFS), but Allegri is available, and am sure there are others.

As for last nights teams - I'd take Dortmunds Defence and Attack, and Leverkusens MF - Dortmund were missing Can and Dahoud though definitely

I think Witsel is their biggest miss, but they have to find a way past that as he’s suffered a bad injury and is out for the season.

I’ve been banging on about Dortmund’s underperformance for years. Frequently mentioned it here how they’ve messed up in failing to take advantage of Bayern’s own coaching issues up until last year. I was of the belief then that they should have won one title in that time. But now Dortmund have missed the boat on that as Bayern have solved their issues both in getting their squad younger, and in coaching, and BVB have only themselves to blame.   I do find it sort of amusing though that the coach they gave the least time to, Peter Bosz, is now doing very well for Leverkusen.

It was a risk with Terzic for sure, I have no idea if they even looked at other possibilities. It was a risk that was working up until this week though - but that’s just how I saw it of course. Now we’ll see if this bad week becomes more. Losing Witsel for sure is a big blow to them, maybe Emre Can can get a run now in that role and be a big player for them. Massive game on Friday vs Gladbach, and after that they have what should be a group of ’nice’ fixtures, that they have to take advantage of, before the European games start up again.

[aw1991]

I do find it sort of amusing though that the coach they gave the least time to, Peter Bosz, is now doing very well for Leverkusen.

To be fair to them, it did got pretty awful before he was sacked, and I'm a fan of Bosz.

[Dim Glas]

To be fair to them, it did got pretty awful before he was sacked, and I'm a fan of Bosz.

yeah he had that horrible run didn’t he.

One of those ‘what if’ moments I think for Dortmund? At the time it was seen as the decision they had to make.

But if they’d stuck it out and seen if they could get out of the rut.....

Cos the start he had there - they played some really fantastic football I seem to recall.

I loved the fact that he was determinted to get back to the Bundesliga though, to show what he could do. And he’s doing that. When his teams are on song, they are really good to watch.

[aw1991]

yeah he had that horrible run didn’t he.

One of those ‘what if’ moments I think for Dortmund? At the time it was seen as the decision they had to make.

But if they’d stuck it out and seen if they could get out of the rut.....

Cos the start he had there - they played some really fantastic football I seem to recall.

I loved the fact that he was determinted to get back to the Bundesliga though, to show what he could do. And he’s doing that. When his teams are on song, they are really good to watch.

Bosz got some good ideas, but it takes some time before things click for his teams. Even at Leverkusen he had poor runs and bad performances. Definitely didn't help him that Dortmund planned going into that season with Tuchel.

But yes, question of just giving him time and I do wonder how things would've ended up if they were as patient with him as Leverkusen are.

At least we got Peter Stoger at Dortmund. That was something

[Dim Glas]

Bosz got some good ideas, but it takes some time before things click for his teams. Even at Leverkusen he had poor runs and bad performances. Definitely didn't help him that Dortmund planned going into that season with Tuchel.

But yes, question of just giving him time and I do wonder how things would've ended up if they were as patient with him as Leverkusen are.

At least we got Peter Stoger at Dortmund. That was something

Ah yes, Peter Stöger, quite possibly the most un-Dortmund Dortmund coach    Nice guy, but his football, never been so ill-suited! But they didn’t make any secrets of why he was appointed, definately a keep the seat warm till next season appointment.

Dortmund seem to be permenantly at a cross-roads these days. Sometimes I just think they need a total re-boot.

They went from being hours way from going bankrupt to somehow becoming the ultimate selling club. It’s like their understandible paranoia and worry about money after what happened to them in the early to mid 2000’s has permeated so deep, they can’t get past it. And they feel they always have to have a big supply of sellable assets. Where ideally they need to find a way of being the huge club they are at their own terms. 

[aw1991]

They went from being hours way from going bankrupt to somehow becoming the ultimate selling club. It’s like their understandible paranoia and worry about money after what happened to them in the early to mid 2000’s has permeated so deep, they can’t get past it. And they feel they always have to have a big supply of sellable assets. Where ideally they need to find a way of being the huge club they are at their own terms.

It's a tough spot to be in, but I think that the moment they capitalize on their potential it would get better for them. They seem willing to match up with Bayern when it comes to paying big fees, but right now players want to use them as a stepping stone. If they become more challenging in the league and domestic competitions, and they could, then players would have other reasons to join them.

[Dim Glas]

another problem of course is that they aren’t paying the top wages. Yes, they pay good wages to the big players on the team, but they are not at the level a lot of other very established top CL clubs pay regularly.

Hard to know what direction they go in, making that huge long term financial wage commitment is likely one of the issues they have a real problem with. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Dortmund's central midfield is not good enough. To me it's one of their biggest problems.

[Gerry Attrick]

Why are Mainz loaning out their only source of goals when they’re in a relegation scrap?

[aw1991]

another problem of course is that they aren’t paying the top wages. Yes, they pay good wages to the big players on the team, but they are not at the level a lot of other very established top CL clubs pay regularly.

Hard to know what direction they go in, making that huge long term financial wage commitment is likely one of the issues they have a real problem with.

I think it will come with time. Maybe the pandemic would slow things down, but I think the future selling of Haaland and Sancho would go hand in hand with more signings like Can, Witsel and Hummels, and even bigger wages as well.

[Dim Glas]

Dortmund's central midfield is not good enough. To me it's one of their biggest problems.

I think Witsel is good enough - for some reason he’s a player who gets a lot of negativity around him though, maybe cos of his odd career choices till now! But I like him, but yeah, totally agree, on the whole the midfield really isn’t good enough. Definately an area they could do with sorting.

Why are Mainz loaning out their only source of goals when they’re in a relegation scrap?

Cos he doesn’t want to be there and has been playing like it for a while. Not that he’s Mainz’ only problem, far from it, but he’s contributed the square route of sod all for weeks.

They are getting relegated, so the money they get from this (I think it’s an obligation to buy) will be more important to them moving on, sadly.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I think Witsel is good enough - for some reason he’s a player who gets a lot of negativity around him though, maybe cos of his odd career choices till now! But I like him, but yeah, totally agree, on the whole the midfield really isn’t good enough. Definately an area they could do with sorting.

Cos he doesn’t want to be there and has been playing like it for a while. Not that he’s Mainz’ only problem, far from it, but he’s contributed the square route of sod all for weeks.

They are getting relegated, so the money they get from this (I think it’s an obligation to buy) will be more important to them moving on, sadly.

I like Witsel as well, he seems a bit injury prone as well, but as you said, the overall midfield just doesn't stand out. A lot of water carriers.

[Dave McCoy]

My consistent point has been that letting go Favre for Terzic seems an unnecessary risk unless Favre had lost the dressing room or was going to resign knowing the Rose is coming in.  It's similar to Arsenal choosing Arteta.  Maybe he will be a great manager but if your financial well being depends on getting top 4 it seems a risk to let a person with no managerial history take the reigns. 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

My consistent point has been that letting go Favre for Terzic seems an unnecessary risk unless Favre had lost the dressing room or was going to resign knowing the Rose is coming in.  It's similar to Arsenal choosing Arteta.  Maybe he will be a great manager but if your financial well being depends on getting top 4 it seems a risk to let a person with no managerial history take the reigns.

They should have sacked him a year ago.

[Dave McCoy]

They should have sacked him a year ago.

Some talk above about the midfield but for me the biggest issue is their best players are all teenagers or thereabouts which is no surprise as that's seemingly the Dortmund business model now.  Inconsistency is going to happen due to this and therefore risking top 4 on an unknown with everything else going on just seems a risk.  With that said I'm not fan of Favre and Terzic could be an amazing manager to boot but odds are he's not.

[aw1991]

Some talk above about the midfield but for me the biggest issue is their best players are all teenagers or thereabouts which is no surprise as that's seemingly the Dortmund business model now.  Inconsistency is going to happen due to this and therefore risking top 4 on an unknown with everything else going on just seems a risk.  With that said I'm not fan of Favre and Terzic could be an amazing manager to boot but odds are he's not.

Their best player is Haaland and he's quite consistent. Sancho definitely didn't have the best of starts to the season, but the rest of their squad isn't that young - Guerreiro, Witsel, Hummels, Akanji, Burki, Can and Reus are some of their key players.

[Dim Glas]

Just when I thought Schalke where doing pretty well and looking quite comfortable in this one - their nemesis - the set piece, bites them in the arse  And Effzeh lead.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Some talk above about the midfield but for me the biggest issue is their best players are all teenagers or thereabouts which is no surprise as that's seemingly the Dortmund business model now.  Inconsistency is going to happen due to this and therefore risking top 4 on an unknown with everything else going on just seems a risk.  With that said I'm not fan of Favre and Terzic could be an amazing manager to boot but odds are he's not.

They've wasted time by sticking with Favre. They've also spent money but imo in the wrong areas. They aren't good defensively consistently either.

[mobydick]

Leverkusen were simply the better team. It happens.

[afc tukrish]

Hoppe scores again...

Five in three matches.

 

[Dim Glas]

Nils Petersen is amazing, the ultimate super sub, putting Freiburg into a 2-1 lead with probably his first touch. Love him 

Decent game this, frankfurt can feel a bit hard done by, they have played pretty well, but plenty of time to get something from this.

[Dim Glas]

Big ole game in the Bundesliga tonight:

Borussia Mönchengladbach vs Borussia Dortmund

Gladbach have an absolutely HORRIBLE record vs Dortmund, can’t remember how many league games they have lost to them in a row, but it’s ridiculous.

Anyway, the teams:

Gladbach:
Sommer - Lainer, Ginter, Elvedi, Bensebaini - Kramer, Neuhaus - Zakaria, Stindl, Hofmann - Plea

BVB:
Bürki - Morey, Akanji, Hummels, Guerreiro - Bellingham, Can - Sancho, Reus, Brandt - Haaland

[LallanaInPyjamas]

'Kin hell Haaland. Hope to God we are in for him.

[Dim Glas]

BVB has some wierd curse over Gladbach, it’s bonkers.

I am not sure Haaland is human. Gotta be some robotic parts in there.

[Gerry Attrick]

Imagine if this is not as good as Haaland gets.

[sinnermichael]

'Kin hell Haaland. Hope to God we are in for him.

We can hope.

Depressing as fuck if he ends up at City as Aguero's replacement.

[Dim Glas]

well this game is fun.

Elvedi and Haaland on hattricks. If I was betting, I think I know who’d I’d put money on getting one 

[PeterTheRed ...]

Great game so far ...

[LallanaInPyjamas]

We can hope.

Depressing as fuck if he ends up at City as Aguero's replacement.

If it's Messi instead I actually won't be arsed and those are words I never thought I would write on a keyboard.

[red1977]

'Kin hell Haaland. Hope to God we are in for him.

He's a monster. He should grow a big fuck off viking beard.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Delightful game this, always fun to watch two teams packed with offensive quality and no real desire to defend.