Author Topic: Space exploration thread - Unexpected Rapid Disassembly in the launch area.  (Read 311841 times)

Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1680 on: April 10, 2016, 10:51:17 pm »
So I've got to design a poster for next Friday, it's going to be on "The Birth of Stars" and I just wondered what people think should be included in it.  I'm a second-year Physics with Astronomy student at UoL/LJMU and so far I'm going to try and timeline it, so it's going to be something like:

Patches of ISM that are dense start to condense
Talk how most are formed in clusters and the characteristics of open and globular
The conditions for gravitational collapse to become a protostar
How the star transitions from protostar to full star
Types of post-protostar stars (brown dwarf, main sequence, etc.)

I've got a few books I'm using, Universe by Freedman, Geller and Kaufmann, The Physics of Stars by A. C. Phillips, Accretion Processes in Star Formation by Lee Hartmann and The Birth of Stars and Planets by Bally & Reipurth (signed by Bo Reipurth! ;D ) but if anyone can link me to anything they think I should use I'd be most grateful.
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1681 on: April 13, 2016, 08:30:29 am »
Not sure if anyone saw this yesterday ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36025706

....The organisation has brought together an expert group of scientists to assess whether it might be possible to develop spaceships capable of travelling to another star within a generation and sending information back.

The nearest star system is 40 trillion km (25 trillion miles) away. Using current technology it would take about 30,000 years to get there.

The expert group concluded that with a little more research and development it might be possible to develop spacecraft that could cut that journey time to just 30 years.

"I'd have said that even a few years ago travel to another star at that kind of speed would not be possible," said Dr Pete Worden, who is leading the project. He is chairman of the Breakthrough Prize Foundation and a former director of Nasa's Ames Research Center in California.

"But the expert group figured out that because of developments in technology there appears to be a concept that appears to work."

The concept is to reduce the size of the spacecraft to about the size of a chip used in electronic devices. The idea is to launch a thousand of these mini-spacecraft into the Earth's orbit. Each would have a solar sail.

This is like a sail on a boat - but it is pushed along by light rather than the wind. A giant laser on Earth would give each one a powerful push, sending them on their way to reaching 20% of the speed of light.


I find it a fascinating idea, not so much the solar sail concept which has been around for years, but for the idea of a swarm of tiny 'spaceships' and the use of an earthbound laser to provide the initial push.
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Offline Tsar Kastik

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1682 on: April 13, 2016, 10:14:52 am »
If someone could clone Helen of Troy that would be neat  :)

Great story though - hope my grandkids enjoy the findings.
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1683 on: April 13, 2016, 11:17:11 am »
If someone could clone Helen of Troy that would be neat  :)

Good one Tsar. :)
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Offline kj999

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1684 on: April 13, 2016, 03:18:59 pm »
Not sure if anyone saw this yesterday ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-36025706

....The organisation has brought together an expert group of scientists to assess whether it might be possible to develop spaceships capable of travelling to another star within a generation and sending information back.

The nearest star system is 40 trillion km (25 trillion miles) away. Using current technology it would take about 30,000 years to get there.

The expert group concluded that with a little more research and development it might be possible to develop spacecraft that could cut that journey time to just 30 years.

"I'd have said that even a few years ago travel to another star at that kind of speed would not be possible," said Dr Pete Worden, who is leading the project. He is chairman of the Breakthrough Prize Foundation and a former director of Nasa's Ames Research Center in California.

"But the expert group figured out that because of developments in technology there appears to be a concept that appears to work."

The concept is to reduce the size of the spacecraft to about the size of a chip used in electronic devices. The idea is to launch a thousand of these mini-spacecraft into the Earth's orbit. Each would have a solar sail.

This is like a sail on a boat - but it is pushed along by light rather than the wind. A giant laser on Earth would give each one a powerful push, sending them on their way to reaching 20% of the speed of light.


I find it a fascinating idea, not so much the solar sail concept which has been around for years, but for the idea of a swarm of tiny 'spaceships' and the use of an earthbound laser to provide the initial push.

This is phenomenal stuff. I know its just theory right now but suggestions that it could be accomplished within a generation. 30 years to the next star system... astonishing.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1685 on: April 15, 2016, 08:34:31 pm »
They were talking about laser plus solar sail technology as far back as 1988.  I believe it was called "Star Wisp".  Heather Cooper discussed it on her TV show, The Stars.
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1686 on: April 16, 2016, 01:24:59 am »
They were talking about laser plus solar sail technology as far back as 1988.  I believe it was called "Star Wisp".  Heather Cooper discussed it on her TV show, The Stars.

Yes, but the solar sail idea is much older than that. the prescient Clarke even wrote a wonderful SF short story back in '63 employing the idea, The Sunjammer, well worth a read.

Of course, as normal with Clarke, he was simply extrapolating even older ideas derived from initial experiments with things like Radiometers and then moving on to better understanding of effects and possibilities.

The Starwisp idea suggested by Forward in '85 that you mention, followed on from this concept, but was to emply a MASER, with the microwaves then converted onboard to energy to propel the sail.

This would inevitably lead to energy loss and considerable inefficiency, though some critiques were even more fierce and detailed in their criticism regarding the proposal.

What this latest approach seems to be suggesting, is rather than having complex step down mechanisms for the beamed and captured microwave energy to be converted into propulsion means with corresponding inefficiencies, is instead by employing high powered lasers this conversion inefficiency could be bypassed, the laser generated photons directly impinging on the solar sail.

I suspect the unsaid thing here is what exactly will power the lasers.

Although incredibly high power chemical lasers have come on in leaps and bounds due to military funding, there is little doubt that the emissions from a controlled fusion device could be channeled through an appropriate focussing substrate and would likely produce simply staggering amounts of laser power, probably comfortably exceeding the total chemical power used to launch every object we ever have into space to date.

If this sort of power could be focussed non destructively,and that will be the challenge, onto just a 1 meter diameter sail dragging a few grammes of high tech payload and for just a couple of seconds, it would likely provide it with a simply staggering acceleration.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1687 on: April 16, 2016, 12:21:52 pm »
Oh absolutely.  The technology advances of the pasts 30 years have almost certainly rendered the basic Star Wisp concept redundant.

I was just highlighting that, strictly speaking, the technology to produce some form of interstellar spacecraft has probably been in existence for some time; but naturally what we can achieve now would be much more compact, efficient and likely far more economical to build. 

For me, we should be looking at applying such technology for solar system exploration initially; not only would it test the tech and teach us the practicalities of building and operating such spacecraft, it would throw open the doors of planetary exploration and colonisation. 

If there really is a Neptune sized world out there, it will take something like a probe of this design to go reach it in a decent measure of time.  And the cool thing is it doesn't have to reach its target in days; a cruise of six months to a year would be sufficient.
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Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1688 on: April 19, 2016, 07:48:02 pm »
Check out the Northern lights in high definition:

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36085656
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Offline cptrios

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1689 on: April 19, 2016, 11:54:28 pm »
The tiny-craft-with-solar-sails thing is amazing, and even though I'd almost certainly not live to see them arrive, it'd be pretty awe-inspiring just to have the mission start in my lifetime.

My big, uninformed question: how do we communicate with them? Do we communicate with them after a certain point? Will we even know if they've arrived?

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1690 on: April 20, 2016, 01:42:57 pm »
The tiny-craft-with-solar-sails thing is amazing, and even though I'd almost certainly not live to see them arrive, it'd be pretty awe-inspiring just to have the mission start in my lifetime.

My big, uninformed question: how do we communicate with them? Do we communicate with them after a certain point? Will we even know if they've arrived?


They sound a bit like a precursor to the Von Neumann machines ( kinematic models )
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1691 on: May 4, 2016, 12:04:07 pm »
Interesting little video about super massive planets and metal stars

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/GMbPaOyXdAk&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/GMbPaOyXdAk&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1692 on: May 4, 2016, 01:16:25 pm »
This is a good article about Stars and their Spectrums..

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-equipment/the-spectral-types-of-stars/
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Offline sinnermichael

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1693 on: May 5, 2016, 03:28:05 pm »
There is to be a meteor shower from Haley's comet tonight. It will be visible from a dark place, such as the trophy room at Goodison Park.

Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1694 on: May 9, 2016, 12:44:00 pm »
There's a live stream of the transit of Mercury if anyone's interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM688ZNSyWQ

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/WM688ZNSyWQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/WM688ZNSyWQ</a>
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Offline Libertine

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1695 on: May 9, 2016, 04:13:44 pm »

Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1696 on: May 30, 2016, 12:20:05 am »
Great view of the ISS tonight here in the SW UK, 10.28pm and just now at 00.04., both 6 minute transits against a magnificently beautiful clear and star studded sky.

I think it's fantastic stuff, the dreams of my childhood starting to be realised, the future is here and it's happening now, but I do worry it's becoming almost blasé amidst great indifference to it all.

I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

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Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1697 on: May 30, 2016, 08:51:39 pm »
My home for a week in a fortnight:

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Offline FiSh77

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1698 on: May 30, 2016, 09:46:23 pm »
jammy bastard ;)

is that the observatory in tenerife?

Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1699 on: May 30, 2016, 09:52:23 pm »
Mars is closest to Earth tonight, go out and take a peek.
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Offline outlaw_nas

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1700 on: May 30, 2016, 10:12:14 pm »
Can't get a good view from my telescope!need an upgrade

Offline outlaw_nas

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1701 on: May 30, 2016, 10:12:34 pm »

Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1702 on: May 30, 2016, 11:59:39 pm »
jammy bastard ;)

is that the observatory in tenerife?
Yeah, on Teide above the clouds :)  Part of my uni course.  It has its downfalls though, my firstborn's due... well, it's just gone midnight so today!  And I'm due to fly out on the 13th, timing couldn't be worse!
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Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1703 on: May 31, 2016, 12:22:57 am »
Yeah, on Teide above the clouds :)  Part of my uni course.  It has its downfalls though, my firstborn's due... well, it's just gone midnight so today!  And I'm due to fly out on the 13th, timing couldn't be worse!
Good luck to your better half and you, mate!
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Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1704 on: May 31, 2016, 04:41:08 pm »
Good luck to your better half and you, mate!
Cheers mate! I was kinda hoping for a little girl because we had a nice space-related name we both loved when we heard it. Darn thing is a boy though so settling for his middle name maybe being Maxwell for James Clerk :-)
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Offline farawayred

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1705 on: June 1, 2016, 06:04:26 am »
Cheers mate! I was kinda hoping for a little girl because we had a nice space-related name we both loved when we heard it. Darn thing is a boy though so settling for his middle name maybe being Maxwell for James Clerk :-)
Was the girls name Stella? Because that's how my wife named our girl (my wife is an astronomer).
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Offline FiSh77

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1706 on: June 1, 2016, 10:49:12 am »
Was the girls name Stella? Because that's how my wife named our girl (my wife is an astronomer).

my ex missus wanted to call our daughter stella as well, unfortunately it was nothing to do with astronomy and more down to her being a piss head ;)

Offline CornerFlag

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1707 on: June 1, 2016, 07:29:52 pm »
Was the girls name Stella? Because that's how my wife named our girl (my wife is an astronomer).
Lyra, from the constellation.
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Offline vagabond

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1708 on: June 15, 2016, 12:54:34 am »
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/opinion/sunday/yes-there-have-been-aliens.html?_r=0

LAST month astronomers from the Kepler spacecraft team announced the discovery of 1,284 new planets, all orbiting stars outside our solar system. The total number of such “exoplanets” confirmed via Kepler and other methods now stands at more than 3,000.

This represents a revolution in planetary knowledge. A decade or so ago the discovery of even a single new exoplanet was big news. Not anymore. Improvements in astronomical observation technology have moved us from retail to wholesale planet discovery. We now know, for example, that every star in the sky likely hosts at least one planet.

But planets are only the beginning of the story. What everyone wants to know is whether any of these worlds has aliens living on it. Does our newfound knowledge of planets bring us any closer to answering that question?

A little bit, actually, yes. In a paper published in the May issue of the journal Astrobiology, the astronomer Woodruff Sullivan and I show that while we do not know if any advanced extraterrestrial civilizations currently exist in our galaxy, we now have enough information to conclude that they almost certainly existed at some point in cosmic history.

Among scientists, the probability of the existence of an alien society with which we might make contact is discussed in terms of something called the Drake equation. In 1961, the National Academy of Sciences asked the astronomer Frank Drake to host a scientific meeting on the possibilities of “interstellar communication.” Since the odds of contact with alien life depended on how many advanced extraterrestrial civilizations existed in the galaxy, Drake identified seven factors on which that number would depend, and incorporated them into an equation.

The first factor was the number of stars born each year. The second was the fraction of stars that had planets. After that came the number of planets per star that traveled in orbits in the right locations for life to form (assuming life requires liquid water). The next factor was the fraction of such planets where life actually got started. Then came factors for the fraction of life-bearing planets on which intelligence and advanced civilizations (meaning radio signal-emitting) evolved. The final factor was the average lifetime of a technological civilization.

Drake’s equation was not like Einstein’s E=mc2. It was not a statement of a universal law. It was a mechanism for fostering organized discussion, a way of understanding what we needed to know to answer the question about alien civilizations. In 1961, only the first factor — the number of stars born each year — was understood. And that level of ignorance remained until very recently.

That’s why discussions of extraterrestrial civilizations, no matter how learned, have historically boiled down to mere expressions of hope or pessimism. What, for example, is the fraction of planets that form life? Optimists might marshal sophisticated molecular biological models to argue for a large fraction. Pessimists then cite their own scientific data to argue for a fraction closer to 0. But with only one example of a life-bearing planet (ours), it’s hard to know who is right.

Or consider the average lifetime of a civilization. Humans have been using radio technology for only about 100 years. How much longer will our civilization last? A thousand more years? A hundred thousand more? Ten million more? If the average lifetime for a civilization is short, the galaxy is likely to be unpopulated most of the time. Once again, however, with only one example to draw from, it’s back to a battle between pessimists and optimists.

But our new planetary knowledge has removed some of the uncertainty from this debate. Three of the seven terms in Drake’s equation are now known. We know the number of stars born each year. We know that the percentage of stars hosting planets is about 100. And we also know that about 20 to 25 percent of those planets are in the right place for life to form. This puts us in a position, for the first time, to say something definitive about extraterrestrial civilizations — if we ask the right question.

In our recent paper, Professor Sullivan and I did this by shifting the focus of Drake’s equation. Instead of asking how many civilizations currently exist, we asked what the probability is that ours is the only technological civilization that has ever appeared. By asking this question, we could bypass the factor about the average lifetime of a civilization. This left us with only three unknown factors, which we combined into one “biotechnical” probability: the likelihood of the creation of life, intelligent life and technological capacity.

You might assume this probability is low, and thus the chances remain small that another technological civilization arose. But what our calculation revealed is that even if this probability is assumed to be extremely low, the odds that we are not the first technological civilization are actually high. Specifically, unless the probability for evolving a civilization on a habitable-zone planet is less than one in 10 billion trillion, then we are not the first.

To give some context for that figure: In previous discussions of the Drake equation, a probability for civilizations to form of one in 10 billion per planet was considered highly pessimistic. According to our finding, even if you grant that level of pessimism, a trillion civilizations still would have appeared over the course of cosmic history.

In other words, given what we now know about the number and orbital positions of the galaxy’s planets, the degree of pessimism required to doubt the existence, at some point in time, of an advanced extraterrestrial civilization borders on the irrational.

In science an important step forward can be finding a question that can be answered with the data at hand. Our paper did just this. As for the big question — whether any other civilizations currently exist — we may have to wait a long while for relevant data. But we should not underestimate how far we have come in a short time.
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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1709 on: June 18, 2016, 10:26:02 am »
NASA Streaming the Live landing of Tim Peake's capsule right now  http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/#public

It landed on its side due to wind, but everyone is fine.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1710 on: June 18, 2016, 10:33:51 am »
Inspiring stuff, my kids are beside themselves.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1711 on: June 18, 2016, 10:36:57 am »
All three Astronauts out of the Capsule now and looking good :)

Amazing achievement from them all.
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1712 on: June 18, 2016, 10:39:32 am »
It's on BBC News as well
Quote from: tubby on Today at 12:45:53 pm

They both went in high, that's factually correct, both tried to play the ball at height.  Doku with his foot, Mac Allister with his chest.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1713 on: June 26, 2016, 05:50:54 pm »
I don't always visit Lobster Pot.  But when I do. I sit.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1714 on: July 4, 2016, 10:54:33 pm »

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1715 on: July 4, 2016, 10:55:49 pm »
I want to see aliens!

If there are no aliens, I'm not interested!
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In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1716 on: July 4, 2016, 11:50:33 pm »
I want to see aliens!

If there are no aliens, I'm not interested!
They are on the spacecraft, mate. (Galileo, Juno and Zeus.)

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Offline Trada

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1717 on: July 5, 2016, 04:09:02 am »
All going well so far another 10 minutes until it starts the burn to slow down.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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Offline Trada

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1718 on: July 5, 2016, 04:21:02 am »
Main engine burn started now have to wait 35 minutes to see if it goes in Orbit.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

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Re: Space exploration thread
« Reply #1719 on: July 5, 2016, 04:54:56 am »
The burn is complete and its in Orbit and starting spin down and soon the final thing turning its solar panels towards the sun.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.