Topic: Raheem Sterling

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Money is intrinsically linked to ambition to win trophies due to its use as a negotiating tool. It's a common tactic in any space, ask for a package that is above the usual for your level if you have your sights set on a better employer, the idea is for you to achieve your exit, or in the unlikely event your unreasonable demands are met, you're now in a better position and still with the ultimate option to leave.

I think it's mainly an issue of optics when it comes down to the different treatments meted out to ex-players. At the end of the day, you judge a guy on his actions, all you need to know is what our level was, and what the player's final decision was. Gerrard stayed, the rest left. We're at a better level now, say if Salah left next season that would be 'worse' than Sterling, yet if he / his agent play politics, wordplay well, he could end up being loved more. These things are worthless, just judge a player on his final action, all with the understanding that striving for a better club and better pay is perfectly ok anyway.

[Coolie High]

Money is intrinsically linked to ambition to win trophies due to its use as a negotiating tool. It's a common tactic in any space, ask for a package that is above the usual for your level if you have your sights set on a better employer, the idea is for you to achieve your exit, or in the unlikely event your unreasonable demands are met, you're now in a better position and still with the ultimate option to leave.

I think it's mainly an issue of optics when it comes down to the different treatments meted out to ex-players. At the end of the day, you judge a guy on his actions, all you need to know is what our level was, and what the player's final decision was. Gerrard stayed, the rest left. We're at a better level now, say if Salah left next season that would be 'worse' than Sterling, yet if he / his agent play politics, wordplay well, he could end up being loved more. These things are worthless, just judge a player on his final action, all with the understanding that striving for a better club and better pay is perfectly ok anyway.

Summed it up well.

[Jake]

Getting boring and personal now. Grow up.

Boo-urns.

[groove]

Probably beyond the scope of this thread but Johnny Barnes is exceptional here on the wider issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=b3oojs_JmKw

[Jake]

So for me booing 1. makes you look like a child 2. can actually galvanise an opposition player 3. doesn't make that much of a difference.

Imagine if it did we'd have booing going through the tannoy system

That's crazy. Have you been to a game with a nasty atmosphere? We've all seen players shit themselves when getting hissed and boo'd for 90 mins.

I can't remember the player now, but I read of a player a year or so ago who couldn't concentrate because the booing was so loud, and he asked to be subbed.

It puts the player off, our enemy. If you want to bake him a cake and pour him a cup of tea then you're part of the problem.

[gazzalfc]

Interesting point by Carra on Monday Night Football.

If the match was a 3pm kick off with no live cameras would it be as big of a deal as it was.

[groove]

I don't even know what that Carragher means to be honest.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

and you carry on booing a lad kicking a ball

Do you celebrate when a lad kicks the ball into the oppositions net?

[rob1966]

That's crazy. Have you been to a game with a nasty atmosphere? We've all seen players shit themselves when getting hissed and boo'd for 90 mins.

I can't remember the player now, but I read of a player a year or so ago who couldn't concentrate because the booing was so loud, and he asked to be subbed.

It puts the player off, our enemy. If you want to bake him a cake and pour him a cup of tea then you're part of the problem.

06 FA Cup tie at Anfield, Neville got ripped into from the off, one of the first things I remember him doing was slicing a pass into the paddock. He looked uncomfortable all game, I'm convinced it got to him that day.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Interesting point by Carra on Monday Night Football.

If the match was a 3pm kick off with no live cameras would it be as big of a deal as it was.

Ive not heard his comments in context, but is he suggesting its less of a deal if someone gets racially abused in a lower profile game?

[Sharado]

06 FA Cup tie at Anfield, Neville got ripped into from the off, one of the first things I remember him doing was slicing a pass into the paddock. He looked uncomfortable all game, I'm convinced it got to him that day.

Of course it did.

Did it get to Man City's players, or Roma's, or before them chelsea or dortmund on those famous european nights. It got to our players in red star just a few weeks ago. A hostile atmosphere is harder to play in, surreal that anyone would think otherwise.

[BobPaisley3]

That's crazy. Have you been to a game with a nasty atmosphere? We've all seen players shit themselves when getting hissed and boo'd for 90 mins.

I can't remember the player now, but I read of a player a year or so ago who couldn't concentrate because the booing was so loud, and he asked to be subbed.

It puts the player off, our enemy. If you want to bake him a cake and pour him a cup of tea then you're part of the problem.

Ben Chilwell at Millwall.

[BobPaisley3]

Ive not heard his comments in context, but is he suggesting its less of a deal if someone gets racially abused in a lower profile game?

Sounds like it. A bit like when you’re mulling over when to throw a coin at a fan, why do it away at Arsenal on live TV?

[Kenny's Jacket]

Sounds like it. A bit like when you’re mulling over when to throw a coin at a fan, why do it away at Arsenal on live TV?

Fuking hell. What a terrible thing to say. I think Carra is a twat since he became a shit pundit, but thats beyond. 

[Jake]

06 FA Cup tie at Anfield, Neville got ripped into from the off, one of the first things I remember him doing was slicing a pass into the paddock. He looked uncomfortable all game, I'm convinced it got to him that day.

Ben Chilwell at Millwall.

Two great examples, found the one I was thinking of though:

https://metro.co.uk/2017/09/27/leipzigs-timo-werner-forced-to-ask-for-substitution-in-champions-league-match-due-to-loud-Beşiktaş-fans-6958556/

‘It is impossible to prepare your team for an atmosphere like this,’ he said. ‘There was a deafening noise [and] at the start of the game we were a bit affected,’ Hasenhuttl said.

No surprise it comes from a nation where it's fans still give a fuck about the game and create an atmosphere.

I'll take the works of a professional over the feeble excuses on here I'm afraid. Just a shame I'm in a dwindling minority.

[BobPaisley3]

Fuking hell. What a terrible thing to say. I think Carra is a twat since he became a shit pundit, but thats beyond.

It certainly came across that way. It would be ok if it happened at Kidderminster v Torquay because only three men and a dog in attendance.

[Hazell]

I think the big difference between the perspective of Sterling against, say, Suarez and Alonso is that it appeared to a large extent that Sterling was leaving for money whereas Suarez and Alonso wanted to go elsewhere to win things. The Alonso situation is especially complicated because only a year before we’d very publicly tried to buy Gareth Barry which seemed a huge snub to Alonso. He then had his best season for us and went off to Madrid. It was gutting that he left but it wasn’t a huge surprise.

The same with Suarez, I don’t seem to recall any issues over money, he just wanted to compete. Arsenal were in a better position than us to do so when he had his little strike - we’d not been in the CL for a few years - and there wasn’t much of a suggestion we were moving in the right direction. A year later he’s had a phenomenal season, goes for the price of his release clause and heads off abroad to Barce where he wins a load of trophies thus (at least in part) seeming to justify his decision.

Other players have complex histories. Masch went on strike but there were clearly issues with Hodgson/H&G that some will sympathise with. Again at least when he goes, it’s to Spain and a big club where he wins silverware. Coutinho’s was the most frustrating in a while because the timing was plainly so poor, going in the middle of a season when he’d been playing well. We seemed to be on the up with Klopp as well though again the context is at least somewhat relevant. He’d been with us for 5 years and despite being a top class player had nothing to show for it trophy wise. And again at least he went to Spain.

Even Steve McManaman went to Real Madrid while Fowler was pushed when he went off to Leeds.

So the above will still get a mix of appreciation and frustration. But fans’ ire tends to be vented on those who move domestically and especially when perceived to be for money rather than career development or trophies. Owen went to Madrid but ended up playing at United and so is seen as a mercenary. Torres left us for a Chelsea side who’d become a rival of ours with awful timing having become a fan favourite. And Sterling went off to Man City in what was perceived at least in part to be chasing money despite having developed significantly as a player at Liverpool and being given an opportunity to do so.

It may seem unreasonable but when footballers are paid tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds a week, it seems perverse to the average fan that they need to move to secure even more money. Put yourself in the player’s shoes and, with no particular loyalty to Liverpool, the thought of going somewhere where you can double your salary (and in Sterling’s case there was the prospect of trophies with City) and the decision has far more cold logic to it than we’d like to acknowledge. Footballers are, for a large part, mercenaries these days and I think the Torres deal brought this realisation into the stark light of day for a lot of supporters. I still don’t like the way Sterling engineered his departure - via his agent it seemed rather calculated and unsavoury. There’s also an argument that at just 21 he had years ahead of him to chase money and trophies. But as fans we will invariably see things in a different way to players. The game has changed.

So you can see why Sterling gets more stick than Alonso or Suarez. It’s pretty obvious really and I don’t think it has anything to do with race (see the immediate reaction to Torres’ departure for the best comparative). Each player has their own set of circumstances, their own motivations and their own manner of sale which will contribute to how they’re perceived by us on their departure.

But I’m “over” Sterling now I the same way I’m “over” Torres, Suarez it Coutinho. We’ve moved on, he’s moved on. If you want to boo him because you think it might put him off his game, then do it. If you want to have a debate about how good a footballer he is then that’s your prerogative.

But this insidious paper talk about him being a disruptive influence is just that - paper talk. There’s nothing to back it up. He seems calm and settled at City, performing to a high level. It’s comparable to all the other rubbish that’s been written about him and which he has called out, correctly. The tabloids in particular treat him and other young black players differently from young white players. That’s not to say they don’t criticise white players, it’s just that they’ll lambast a black player for doing something innocuous like buying a house or jewellery whereas young white players wouldn’t get stick to nearly the same extent.

I wanted to post something on this is better than anything I could have said. And I don't even have much of an issue with Sterling though I understand why some of our fans do.

[DelTrotter]

It certainly came across that way. It would be ok if it happened at Kidderminster v Torquay because only three men and a dog in attendance.

Have you even watched it? Didn't come across like that at all. It was a pretty passionate defence of Raheem and he was just worried this has become a big thing because of the coverage while it goes on at other places with people not that arsed about stopping it, that was his point.

[robgomm]

Carra's point is: if fewer people had seen it, would as many people care?

Carra, sometimes, is a bit of a noddy.

[jillcwhomever]

I think the big difference between the perspective of Sterling against, say, Suarez and Alonso is that it appeared to a large extent that Sterling was leaving for money whereas Suarez and Alonso wanted to go elsewhere to win things. The Alonso situation is especially complicated because only a year before we’d very publicly tried to buy Gareth Barry which seemed a huge snub to Alonso. He then had his best season for us and went off to Madrid. It was gutting that he left but it wasn’t a huge surprise.

The same with Suarez, I don’t seem to recall any issues over money, he just wanted to compete. Arsenal were in a better position than us to do so when he had his little strike - we’d not been in the CL for a few years - and there wasn’t much of a suggestion we were moving in the right direction. A year later he’s had a phenomenal season, goes for the price of his release clause and heads off abroad to Barce where he wins a load of trophies thus (at least in part) seeming to justify his decision.

Other players have complex histories. Masch went on strike but there were clearly issues with Hodgson/H&G that some will sympathise with. Again at least when he goes, it’s to Spain and a big club where he wins silverware. Coutinho’s was the most frustrating in a while because the timing was plainly so poor, going in the middle of a season when he’d been playing well. We seemed to be on the up with Klopp as well though again the context is at least somewhat relevant. He’d been with us for 5 years and despite being a top class player had nothing to show for it trophy wise. And again at least he went to Spain.

Even Steve McManaman went to Real Madrid while Fowler was pushed when he went off to Leeds.

So the above will still get a mix of appreciation and frustration. But fans’ ire tends to be vented on those who move domestically and especially when perceived to be for money rather than career development or trophies. Owen went to Madrid but ended up playing at United and so is seen as a mercenary. Torres left us for a Chelsea side who’d become a rival of ours with awful timing having become a fan favourite. And Sterling went off to Man City in what was perceived at least in part to be chasing money despite having developed significantly as a player at Liverpool and being given an opportunity to do so.

It may seem unreasonable but when footballers are paid tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds a week, it seems perverse to the average fan that they need to move to secure even more money. Put yourself in the player’s shoes and, with no particular loyalty to Liverpool, the thought of going somewhere where you can double your salary (and in Sterling’s case there was the prospect of trophies with City) and the decision has far more cold logic to it than we’d like to acknowledge. Footballers are, for a large part, mercenaries these days and I think the Torres deal brought this realisation into the stark light of day for a lot of supporters. I still don’t like the way Sterling engineered his departure - via his agent it seemed rather calculated and unsavoury. There’s also an argument that at just 21 he had years ahead of him to chase money and trophies. But as fans we will invariably see things in a different way to players. The game has changed.

So you can see why Sterling gets more stick than Alonso or Suarez. It’s pretty obvious really and I don’t think it has anything to do with race (see the immediate reaction to Torres’ departure for the best comparative). Each player has their own set of circumstances, their own motivations and their own manner of sale which will contribute to how they’re perceived by us on their departure.

But I’m “over” Sterling now I the same way I’m “over” Torres, Suarez it Coutinho. We’ve moved on, he’s moved on. If you want to boo him because you think it might put him off his game, then do it. If you want to have a debate about how good a footballer he is then that’s your prerogative.

But this insidious paper talk about him being a disruptive influence is just that - paper talk. There’s nothing to back it up. He seems calm and settled at City, performing to a high level. It’s comparable to all the other rubbish that’s been written about him and which he has called out, correctly. The tabloids in particular treat him and other young black players differently from young white players. That’s not to say they don’t criticise white players, it’s just that they’ll lambast a black player for doing something innocuous like buying a house or jewellery whereas young white players wouldn’t get stick to nearly the same extent.

Suarez threatened to go on strike, I seem to recall there were rumours of leaving and going to Arsenal as well. He ended up having to train on his own.  I find it incredible how people have forgotten these episodes. To me its not important that players want to leave, few of them will stay all their career we all know that. But to me its how they leave and work it out with the club. Suarez soured his time in my eyes with his antics at the end, I've never really felt the same about him since. Just another spoilt footballer who cried like a baby when the club refused to let him have his wish, when he wanted it.

[robgomm]

I think Sterling is perceived to have gone for the money but it's ironic given that Suarez wanted to go to Arsenal to finish 4th, apparently, that he was seen as trying to get out for the trophies. A year later after a great season with us he's off to Barca. Footballers are, sometimes, noddies.

[BobPaisley3]

Have you even watched it? Didn't come across like that at all. It was a pretty passionate defence of Raheem and he was just worried this has become a big thing because of the coverage while it goes on at other places with people not that arsed about stopping it, that was his point.

Yeah rewinding it and watching again he does to be fair, it didn’t come across that succinctly at first, seemed as though he was saying it’s only a big deal because it happened in a huge match.

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

It certainly came across that way. It would be ok if it happened at Kidderminster v Torquay because only three men and a dog in attendance.

He didn’t mean it like that at all. He was just saying that if it happened in a non-televised game, would the media have picked up on it or would they have reported it as widely as they have. The point being that they should, but likely wouldn’t.

[Kenny's Jacket]

He didn’t mean it like that at all. He was just saying that if it happened in a non-televised game, would the media have picked up on it or would they have reported it as widely as they have. The point being that they should, but likely wouldn’t.

Ahhh fair enough

[sinnermichael]

Good listen from Gary Neville:

https://twitter.com/SuperbiaProeIia/status/1072214004716707842

[Butcher Knife Roberto]

I'm fairly certain Raheem would not give a toss about whether people like him or not for his decisions regarding money, loyalty, whatever. But any form of racial abuse is just entirely out of order. After all, the lad is just doing his job. I'd like to say that we live in more enlightened times but even that is proving tougher to do each day. I can only applaud him for opening up a debate that needs to be had; the racism is only the start of it.

[HardworkDedication]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2f4rVvpmzJ0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2f4rVvpmzJ0</a>

Absolutely superb interview by Barnes. He nails it to the core. So articulate in the way he delivered his point.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

Absolutely superb interview by Barnes. He nails it to the core. So articulate in the way he delivered his point.

Brilliant!

[WhereAngelsPlay]

Absolutely superb interview by Barnes. He nails it to the core. So articulate in the way he delivered his point.

He must get sick of having to make the same points every couple of years or so,he would never say it but it must surely.I know that it annoys me because he should be front line and center,the man that the decision makers always look to but it is no good if they don't bloody listen to what he has to say.

I remember him saying that the racism he endured years ago never really hurt him as he had never (rightly) seen himself as lesser than another man due to his upbringing.

Love his not so subtle bitch slap he gave Moron.

For as long as I draw breath I'll never stop loving the big beautiful legend.

[Sheer Magnetism]

I would hope no one would suggest that any kind of racial abuse toward anyone is justified, regardless of their feeling toward the player, but I simply don't see what that remotely has to do with the booing Sterling gets at Anfield. Torres and Owen seem to be just as badly disliked among the fan base as he is, having done far more for this club and making far more of an effort to build bridges while having been far less disruptive.

I think a few years on, people forget just what Sterling did in 2014-15. The club had offered him a 300% pay rise, given him time off to go on holiday earlier in the season, and they were repaid by him effectively going on strike, giving unsolicited interviews on TV and getting his agent to slag off our manager, later stating in public that Sterling would have considered staying if we'd got rid of him - something that even at the time was a transparent lie intended only to damage the club. It only takes a cursory look at the timing of the contract drama alongside the results to see the direct effect it had on the team. That isn't remotely comparable to anything Alonso, Suarez or even Coutinho did. None of them went to domestic rivals and none had youth team links with the club either, which is why I find it bizarre they're being compared.

As for the booing, I say long may it continue - it gets to Sterling because he's mentally weak, the same as he's always been. I remember when we went out of Europe to Beşiktaş that season when, at the end of the penalty shootout, after doing nothing for 120 minutes and being the only forward apart from Lambert on the pitch, he didn't take a penalty, letting Lovren sky the last of the main five and leaving him to get the dog's abuse instead.

And while there's no doubt he's had it bad from the Mail, I'd argue that a) it's typical of the treatment they've given to any other high-profile international who's seen to be underproductive and 'spoiled' over the years, and b) he gets overly flattering treatment from other parts of the press who practically fall over themselves to praise his Carl Leaburn-ish England record. Is it really more unfair than the media treatment of someone like Theo Walcott, who's still seems to be labelled a brainless donkey despite having a more productive international record while playing in a worse team, or Wayne Rooney, who's got abuse from the press and fans for doing practically anything? Or what Gazza or Beckham or Jack Wilshere had to go through?

[Coolie High]

I think Sterling is perceived to have gone for the money but it's ironic given that Suarez wanted to go to Arsenal to finish 4th, apparently, that he was seen as trying to get out for the trophies. A year later after a great season with us he's off to Barca. Footballers are, sometimes, noddies.

Yep, he wanted to leave for trophies apparently..

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I think Sterling is perceived to have gone for the money but it's ironic given that Suarez wanted to go to Arsenal to finish 4th, apparently, that he was seen as trying to get out for the trophies. A year later after a great season with us he's off to Barca. Footballers are, sometimes, noddies.

Personally i hate Suarez equally like i hate Sterling. Torres not so much because i wasn't really arsed, and we got rid at the perfect time.

[groove]

I think a few years on, people forget just what Sterling did in 2014-15. The club had offered him a 300% pay rise, given him time off to go on holiday earlier in the season, and they were repaid by him effectively going on strike, giving unsolicited interviews on TV and getting his agent to slag off our manager, later stating in public that Sterling would have considered staying if we'd got rid of him - something that even at the time was a transparent lie intended only to damage the club. It only takes a cursory look at the timing of the contract drama alongside the results to see the direct effect it had on the team. That isn't remotely comparable to anything Alonso, Suarez or even Coutinho did. None of them went to domestic rivals and none had youth team links with the club either, which is why I find it bizarre they're being compared.

You're laying no blame with the club here. Firstly, whatever initial pay rise we offered was not what he was worth. We know this because we eventually offered him what he'd asked for and so did City. There was hesitation within the club to pay him according to his ability because of his age. Which is just straight up both discriminatory (regardless of how overpaid footballers are) and strategically incorrect (which was proven by us losing him to City).

Secondly, the team, because it failed to replace Suarez and Sturridge (through injury) put a huge amount of pressure on Sterling on the pitch. How many games did we play him as a lone striker? Despite the fact he was clearly not a natural for that position. Of course his performances were going to suffer. Of course he's look tired at some point. Of course he was going to take stick in the media. Our fuck ups in the transfer market put Sterling in the firing line.

Thirdly, he 'got' his agent to do that? How do you know that? Sterling was 19 at the time. It is much more probable that his agent lead the whole thing and Sterling was just a teenager going along with it with the knowledge that his agents experience would get him the best deal for his career.

It turns out, by the way, that his agent was correct. He's a Premier League champion and Guardiola has helped him become regarded as one of the best players in the country. How much of that would be true if he'd stayed at Liverpool?

[AndyMuller]

You're laying no blame with the club here. Firstly, whatever initial pay rise we offered was not what he was worth. We know this because we eventually offered him what he'd asked for and so did City. There was hesitation within the club to pay him according to his ability because of his age. Which is just straight up both discriminatory (regardless of how overpaid footballers are) and strategically incorrect (which was proven by us losing him to City).

Secondly, the team, because it failed to replace Suarez and Sturridge (through injury) put a huge amount of pressure on Sterling on the pitch. How many games did we play him as a lone striker? Despite the fact he was clearly not a natural for that position. Of course his performances were going to suffer. Of course he's look tired at some point. Of course he was going to take stick in the media. Our fuck ups in the transfer market put Sterling in the firing line.

Thirdly, he 'got' his agent to do that? How do you know that? Sterling was 19 at the time. It is much more probable that his agent lead the whole thing and Sterling was just a teenager going along with it with the knowledge that his agents experience would get him the best deal for his career.

It turns out, by the way, that his agent was correct. He's a Premier League champion and Guardiola has helped him become regarded as one of the best players in the country. How much of that would be true if he'd stayed at Liverpool?

Hi Raheem.

[Linudden]

It turns out, by the way, that his agent was correct. He's a Premier League champion and Guardiola has helped him become regarded as one of the best players in the country. How much of that would be true if he'd stayed at Liverpool?

Found a suitable forum for ya.

https://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/

[Sheer Magnetism]

You're laying no blame with the club here. Firstly, whatever initial pay rise we offered was not what he was worth. We know this because we eventually offered him what he'd asked for and so did City. There was hesitation within the club to pay him according to his ability because of his age. Which is just straight up both discriminatory (regardless of how overpaid footballers are) and strategically incorrect (which was proven by us losing him to City).

Secondly, the team, because it failed to replace Suarez and Sturridge (through injury) put a huge amount of pressure on Sterling on the pitch. How many games did we play him as a lone striker? Despite the fact he was clearly not a natural for that position. Of course his performances were going to suffer. Of course he's look tired at some point. Of course he was going to take stick in the media. Our fuck ups in the transfer market put Sterling in the firing line.

Thirdly, he 'got' his agent to do that? How do you know that? Sterling was 19 at the time. It is much more probable that his agent lead the whole thing and Sterling was just a teenager going along with it with the knowledge that his agents experience would get him the best deal for his career.

It turns out, by the way, that his agent was correct. He's a Premier League champion and Guardiola has helped him become regarded as one of the best players in the country. How much of that would be true if he'd stayed at Liverpool?

So it was discriminatory to pay him less than someone older but also unrealistic to expect him to take the same responsibility as anyone else on or off the pitch?

[groove]

Where did I say we expected less responsibility? I'm saying we played him out of position in a poorly performing team because we had no other option because we failed in the transfer window. And he did amazingly well at centre forward for a while and ended up our top scorer from open play that season.

[RyanBabel19]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/2f4rVvpmzJ0" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/2f4rVvpmzJ0</a>

Absolutely superb interview by Barnes. He nails it to the core. So articulate in the way he delivered his point.

Brilliant from Barnes, will always have huge respect for him. He's spot on about the first point he makes regarding the media influencing society

Racism is frighteningly common nowadays, I hear racist terms used on a near daily basis now and some act like they're acceptable terms. There will be people on RAWK who regularly use them as if there's nothing wrong with the terms

[The 1989 Brit Awards]

It really isn’t just that ‘they left too so should be treated the same’. If you leave like a twat, to a direct rival, and continue being a twat after you’ve left then the chances are you’ll be treated that way until you stop being a twat. Suarez and Alonso, amongst others, make it sound like they loved it here and loved the fans whereas guys like Owen and Sterling you get the impression we were just a stop for them on the way and they wouldn’t have really cared if they’d played for us or not.

How Alonso and Suarez are perceived today is more due to circumstances than anything. Alonso had the "rafa didn't want me" alibi, and had we let Suarez have his way, he would've been scoring the bangers for Wenger.

A bit of a change here and there and Sterling wouldn't be as badly perceived as he is here. I certainly think we were just as much a stepping stone for Suarez as for him.

[trimore]

I'm saying we played him out of position in a poorly performing team because we had no other option because we failed in the transfer window. And he did amazingly well at centre forward for a while and ended up our top scorer from open play that season.

The guy was 20 at the time, all of 20 years old with his entire future ahead of him. He couldn't give us a few more transfer windows to figure things out? He just couldn't sit tight and wait until he was 23-24 and reevaluate his options then? What would have been the harm in that?

We took a risk and gave him games when he was just a little kid and had proven nothing. Then to act like that meant nothing to him?