Topic: Round Table Liverpool 2 - 2 Man City

[DanA]

Salute to Rodgers for playing Jonjo, Sterling and Coates.  Coates will be a monster successor to Carra, who had been great for us.  As for Downing and Adam, they have nothing to do with intelligent gameplay.   

The teamwork still has much to improve.  The players need to move to creat options for passing.  That is what will stretch defense and create penetration, especially in the final 3rd.  Even in defense, we can see how no one moved to provide an outlet for Skrtel when he was facing two players.  Granted he backpassed without looking, but some one could have moved in to support. 

A couple of posts said the 1st goal was Reina's error.  It was not.  Skrtel had a glancing header on it and that's why Reina missed.  If there's error in there it was Skertl, who made a weak clearance header. 

And our captain should really speak up to the ref to protest the rough handling of our forwards.  He has a duty to protect his team mates.  Learn something from Souness, if not from Keane. 

Ball was put in reach of Reina and he didn't end up with it. It's his job to call Skrtel off it, his job to command the ball. The only way that's Skrtel's fault is if Reina called Skrtel out of it and he chose to ignore that command.

[7777]

I think it's fair to say we have been hit and miss so far and that's going to be the case for some time

Miss: Gomel away, WBA away, Hearts away
Hit's: Gomel home, Leverkusen home, City home

Based on the above, I'm expecting us to have a really good week against Hearts and Arsenal!

I don't really think it's just a home and away thing but if there is one thing that's a little concerning so far, that's it. I did think we did well until Gera's worldie against the Baggies and for large parts of the 2nd half against Hearts but our home efforts have really stood out

I don't think enough has been made about the decisions made for line up on Sunday. It was odd watching the build up on really, we should have been nervous regardless of the team we put out, we were facing the Champions after all who were pretty formidable at times last year and we'd just been beaten 3-0 by a team who we should be beating if we've any aspirations this season. The safe options should really have been Carra and Downing but the excitement when the rumour of Sterling starting was hard to contain and doubled quickly when the realisation Coates was going to get his chance. I'd wager a large percentage of fans would have made those decisions too but we don't have to win football matches and we don't live or die by those decisions that could ultimately cost us our job. I've nothing but respect for Rodgers for making them, he commented how brave Skrtel was for trying to retain possession as the easy thing would be have been to hoof the ball up field or into row z but if Skrtel was brave, you'd have to say he was only following an example set by Rodgers in the first place

Kenny was and always will be a massive hero to me but you'd have to say they weren't decisions he would have made and although Raheem is a little bit older, he'd have still been warming the bench (if that) particularly after the run out at Hearts on Thursday. There isn't a chance Coates would have played ahead of Carra either if Clarke was still making decisions for the team defensively, especially as we had somewhat of a scratch back 4 already with 'young' Martin Kelly and Glen Johnson having to reshuffle. Make no mistake, they were extremely brave decisions and they could have backfired badly but the defence alongside Raheem was also one of the most pleasing aspects to Sunday's game. Johnson was excellent again at Left back and even made Garth Crook's team of the week there (for all that's worth) and really highlights the strength in depth we have at Left back with Robinson not far behind. Kelly put another good shift in and it's easy to forget how young he is, Coates performed admirably and must have been pleased to finally get the nod but again, he is only 21 with plenty of years on his side as a Centre Half but the most pleasing thing was Skrtel again who has started as he left off last year, there will be nobody more disappointed than him with 'that' pass.

There probably isn't much to say about Sterling that hasn't already been said. If you've watched any sort of youth or reserve football since he has been here then I expect you've been like me telling anyone who would listen about this superstar we have coming through. It wasn't gratifying for me to see that I was proved right (I'm no genius at this stuff), but it certainly was for Raheem himself. 17 years old. Home Debut. Against the Champions. Let that sink in for a minute. Roy of the Rovers stuff really, a boy against men and he more than lived up to the billing. It will be hard to dampen expectations now or for the screams for him to start every match ahead of Downing but I've every confidence Rodgers will bring him through correctly, even more so after seeing the sneak preview 'bollocking' he was given during pre-season, he is under no illusions who the boss is and little tasters like this will make him hungry for more

All in all, despite it feeling like a loss at 6pm on Sunday, there were more than enough positives to take from the game, our defence, passing, Joe Allen, the movement of Suarez and Borini and as a work in progress, I can't help but feel we're in for a good season. We'll have to take the rough with the smooth for some time yet, as has been pointed out, it took Rafa nearly 5 years to challenge properly for the title but I do feel upbeat about the season and I'm confident teams will not fancy the trip to fortress Anfield once more

[soberphobia]

It is easy to look at incidents of a game and focus on an errant backpass, a keeper slightly off his best form or a penalty not given. I like to focus on process rather than result. I think we played some great footy but it was the opening home game against the current champions and therefore all our players were going to be
 "up for it". The quality of our field play was really good and better than anyone could realistically have expected. Some issues remain though. Our inability to score in open play or even to put the keeper under real pressure in a game we dominated speaks volumes about our need for a finisher.

The young players Shelvey Sterling Coates Kelly and Allen were all either very good or outstanding and for me was probably the most enjoyable part of the performance. Still have Robinson and perhaps one or two others to come through yet.

I will be interested to see how we do away to Sunderland as i think those types of games have been our real weakness in recent times not blockbusters at home.

[Fat Scouser]

Quick word for Brendan... WHEN IN DOUBT, TWAT IT OUT!

Other than that, fantastic.

[Redstafarian]

So, After finally getting to see the game after an enforced delay due to antipodean location, I have some observations:

Pleased to see the energy levels and committment displayed, not sure why it has not always been so apparent, but I'm looking forward and not back, so I'm looking forward to similar in all games to come, sometimes moreso, sometimes less if required, for example where we need to slow the tempo.

I think now that the owners have the type of manager they wanted we will start to see the vision take shape. We already are of course, with a young starting XI, and a change in style (looking to be an LFC style of more direct tikka takka if I dare say, even at this early stage - England meets Spain?) I think that we will see investments start to pay off, some immediately and some as the season develops (Carroll, Henderson, Borini). I think we will start to see the owners invest more now that they have the man for their vision.

Some comments re current playing staff - Coates looks to be a real find, comfortable and assured at the top level. I think picking him over Carra sent a clear message of intent - new ideas, new outlook, new approach. This must be the way forward. I like the look of Borini, even if his hold up play needs some work. I have no doubt we bought him as an out and out finisher, and he will blossom given more time in the middle. His movement was great and if he and Suarez develop an understanding (currently non-existent) then he will flourish. I expect he will find his touch and he will add to our option up front in an either/or with Carroll.

Aah Andy, the fans they love you, and they know a thing or two. Carroll is an interesting one, much maligned and rightly so for some of his past efforts .. the turning his back and ambling off in weird directions while we have the ball in the front half etal. But, I am expecting to see a new 100% switched on Andy, who knows a thing or two about positioning, under BR. I saw glimpses of it vs Manchester City, and we can look forward to some great things from him this season.

Allen is not Messi or Iniesta or Xabi or whoever. He is Allen and he is quite good, a breath of fresh air compared to the ponderous Adam, Henderson, Shelvey & Spearing. He's quick minded and can pick a pass, but he is also no Lucas. Lucas has a huge role to play, he will bring some composure on the ball, some control, and some intelligence in the back half. Once injury woes subside he is going to be immense for us back there.

What we really need though is some of the same in the front half. We don't have it. Suarez is amazing but at times I wish he would just take a second before trying the latest amazing turn or trick, and pick a a pass instead. Just sometimes. Borini will not do it for us, he's there to stick it away pretty much, as is Andy, although he can hold it up well which is badly needed. Raheem is the perfect fit, but we still need some composure, which isn't Stevie's thing either.

This is where Sahin comes in, I hope, for this season anyway. We badly need someone to look, think, see, and execute, rather than blind crossess and rushed passes, and I think that Sahin can do this for us. Not sure who else will, maybe Henderson one day, but not any time soon.

Gerrard is 32. Great player still, but will never be what he was and missing the killer instinct now, the final yard of leg speed that used to make him something really really special. He won't reinvent himself. He might just win us a few, as always, but we need a replacement NOW, not in 2 years. Maybe Shelvey will grow into a forward goalscoring midfield role, he seems to be being groomed for this (but I know, 'ponderous' right!)

Anyway, I like many of you am feeling pretty good. We seem to have direction and are getting the right players, so,  walk on, walk on ....

[lachesis]

Due to writing for eplindex now I have a 48 hour period of not being able to reproduce any pieces but my thoughts are here if anyone cares: http://ow.ly/dhjEh

[Roger Federer]

I simply said you can't leave your centre backs 50 yards apart in that spot. We can still keep ball when Allen drops back in as a centre back.

Why not? I don't get it, even after all the debate on the last page. We had the ball. A second or so before the screen shot is taken, Skrtel had a simple ball to an open Shelvey he could play. Allen was then in a great position to get the next one, and with plenty of space infornt of him as Tevez was taking a chance and staying up the pitch, Had Skrtel played that ball, what is the problem with Allen's position? Why is he supposed to 'mark' Tevez when we're about to move forward and in possession?

Also, Skrtel had another outlet he didn't use after he decided against playing the ball to Shelvey. A simple lobpass down the left - no hoof required - where Enrique was free after the City player started to move forward to press Skrtel (he's isn't seen on your screen shot, but is out there on the left sideline) could have solved the problem. Instead he turned back to goal and as soon as he passed the ball realised his mistake. He knew he was to blame, and in my opinon Allen's position had nothing to do with it. People will continue to make mistakes, but I hope it takes a long time before we see another one like Skrtel's.

And I hope Allen continues to do what he did here too. He anticipated a pass to Shelvey (which would have been the right pass) and moved accordingly into space to recieve the next one. Don't understand what he did wrong at all. Had Allen not moved to where he was, who is Shelvey (had he got the pass in the first place) supposed to pass to next?

[stevied]

Just take all the positives from Sunday, home crowd albeit first game of the season fully behind the team, the home debuts of Allen and Sterling, Shelvey sat in the dugout and after 4 mins put in against De Jong and Toure, the high pressing game that we are now employing and said it on Sunday after the game we have a manager that is willing to throw on a centre forward with 5 mins to go at 2-2 against the top dogs from last season, in the past we would have seen Carra thrown on to make sure we didnt lose, all in all a lot to be positive about

[kred]

Ball was put in reach of Reina and he didn't end up with it. It's his job to call Skrtel off it, his job to command the ball. The only way that's Skrtel's fault is if Reina called Skrtel out of it and he chose to ignore that command.

We don't know that do we?  And Reina can't get to it if the ball is headed off its flight path, can he?  What transpired was Skrtel got to the ball and not Reina, but his header was not convincing.  It landed in the 6 yard box.  Even if called out by the keeper, if you are already heading the ball, you head it.  You can't do half of it (remember the back header into the net from Skrtel years back?).  That said, it didn't look like Skrtel was shying away at the last moment.  He just didn't head it cleanly. 

[DonkeyWan]

Just as we cannot read too much into the WBA game, I don't believe this game tells us as much as we would hope either. A number of factors help explain the performance.

1] City were not as match fit as Liverpool who are slightly ahead in terms of preparation due to the Europa League.
2] City played an unusual formation (one they will be developing this year according to Mancini) and looked unsure as a result. This might help explain Liverpool's domination at times.
3] Liverpool are also trialling a new playing style and formation that will also take time to adapt to. This would also explain the errant defending and dubious goals conceded.
4] Liverpool were up for the big game. This has not been a problem in recent years and a better measure of where the team is at will be to see how energetic they will be against the bottom half of the division. I seriously doubt we will see 40 yard lung-busting runs at keepers by 32 year old Gerrard against Reading
5] The backline was a bit experimental, young players in new positions. Defensive solidity comes from experience and playing time together.

Those factors aside, and realising that its too early in the season to make many judgements, there were a lot of very telling side stories to Sunday;

1] The complete absence of Dalglish's British buys from the starting 11.  It's interesting that so very early on Rodgers has decisively moved to leave out Adam, Downing, henderson and to a lesser extent Carroll. It would be no surprise to me if all four of those were shipped out in two years time.
2] The addition of youth. Sterling was the most talked about inclusion, mostly by the media looking for a new English wunderkid to build up and knock down. Liverpool fans were also clearly excited and pleased, but the more telling decision was the exclusion of that great stalwart, Carragher for Coates. Understandable nervous he grew into the game with greater confidence, also very pleasing. I love Carragher, who doesn't, but using him for cups and emergencies is the best way to get another 2-3 years from one of the clubs most iconic players. A similar argument can be made for Gerrard, though he probably has more to offer still.
3] Attacking intent. A factor that many have overlooked is the way in which Liverpool went for the result right up until the end. That I found particularly amazing. Hodgson, perhaps even Dalglish, would have been tempted to throw on an extra defender and hold on for the point. Afterwards Hodgson in particular would have gloried in their incredible result against formidable opponents. Perhaps its the folly of (comparative) youth, but seeing Liverpool going hell for leather right up until the last minutes of extra time was extremely heartening. Not only did it show fearlessness, but also massive balls. Imagine if, in their quest for 3pts, Liverpool had been undone on the break? The narrative in the papers would have been unbearable, same old Liverpool, all the positives for nought. Instead, Rodgers, in his second league game after the WBA horror show, was urging them on, not in the least concerned that all he had might dissolve before his eyes. That, more than anything, impressed me. It showed real intent and purpose, something that can't have been lost on the players.

So, to sum up, lots of interesting developments, mostly positive. They need to put in these performances consistently though.

[clinical]

Don't know where to put this. With the standard pitch size being introduced has our pitch increased in size?

[kred]

1] The complete absence of Dalglish's British buys from the starting 11.  It's interesting that so very early on Rodgers has decisively moved to leave out Adam, Downing, henderson and to a lesser extent Carroll. It would be no surprise to me if all four of those were shipped out in two years time.

Actually Henderson is quite good.  Henderson has good techniques and is very athletic.  Just need to learn the system of play. 

[Livo.85]

Worth a bump no?

It's interesting to see how the team has evolved since Rodgers 1st took on City early in his Liverpool career.
Some points made from this fixture with relevance to the boxing day fixture & how the team has evolved up until now:

The emergence of Joe Allen & Raheem Sterling getting many plaudits. Deja vu?
Shelvey ahead of Henderson in the pecking order, coming on for Lucas. Give Rodgers credit for selling Shelvey & developing JH?
Lack of open play goal scoring chances. How that has improved!
Kelly with an impressive performance at RB with Johnson not getting a mention on the left. With Flanagan a doubt this could be a return to old.
Set piece issues STILL an issue:

Suffice to say that Rodgers' comments after the game fit with the footage of the players coming off the pitch at half time (Kelly, Skrtel and Johnson discussing the defensive set up for corners), and with the mental image I have of the players and coach correcting each other on Thursday night.

Preparation time still being neglected on defensive set piece assignments?

Undoubtedly the team has improved (as has City under Pellegrini) with Sakho an improvement on Coates, Henderson emerging, Coutinho for Borini & the team a lot more comfortable playing the Rodgers system.

Despite having arguably the best player in the world this stood out for me:

Rodgers post match also noted "The star of this team will be the team". I liked that.