Topic: Labour Thread * No Gaza *

[reddebs]

Well that seems to be a burst of common sense.

The immediate need is for starter homes integral to existing physical infrastructure. The rub comes when considering capacity of schools, GPs surgeries etc.

It really does need to be a whole community thing rather than just housing. 

Maybe take a leaf out of the ideas in some Scandinavian countries. 

I particularly like their dementia villages ideas where residents live in an era they remember so are able to function like a healthy person would.

[No666]

Well that seems to be a burst of common sense.

The immediate need is for starter homes integral to existing physical infrastructure. The rub comes when considering capacity of schools, GPs surgeries etc.

Create Streets seems to be a think tank responding to the Labour announcement; it is not clear from that whether they are actually advising government or not?

[classycarra]

I'm neither but I'm getting used to my age being blamed for most of the worlds woes on here!!

don't be fooled by R-S's deflection Debs, haven't said a thing about your situation or age and obviously also know you're not retired

He's just feeling a bit narky since I pointed out his misinformation (or lie) about Green Belt land. He's all too happy to appraise the quality of other people's ideas, but almost always fails to offer a single suggestion beyond empty platitudes (backed up by misinformation and hyperbole on this occasion, and words like "sustainable")

How do you get involved in appraising the quality of manifesto housing and development offerings and not have a view about whether developing on disused petrol stations within Green Belt land is allowable. It's about the easiest decision going, and we have a housing crisis, but still can't get on board with it (but will pretend they care about housing crisis as long as 'it's in the right place', to use their euphamism)

[zero zero]

Is a Milton Keynes the new SI unit for housing development area?

Is it more than half a Birmingham?

Looks tiny. About the size of my SW London constituency. 1.5m houses need to built somewhere and that is not a lot of land by my reckoning.

[smicer07]

I think sorting out the junior doctors' strike will be a huge win if they can get it done.

[Dr. Beaker]

Is a Milton Keynes the new SI unit for housing development area?

Is it more than half a Birmingham?

I hate that. They always do it on the news too. The QE2 is as long 25,000 curley-wurleys etc, just tell us how long it is ffs.

[reddebs]

don't be fooled by R-S's deflection Debs, haven't said a thing about your situation or age and obviously also know you're not retired

He's just feeling a bit narky since I pointed out his misinformation (or lie) about Green Belt land. He's all too happy to appraise the quality of other people's ideas, but almost always fails to offer a single suggestion beyond empty platitudes (backed up by misinformation and hyperbole on this occasion, and words like "sustainable")

How do you get involved in appraising the quality of manifesto housing and development offerings and not have a view about whether developing on disused petrol stations within Green Belt land is allowable. It's about the easiest decision going, and we have a housing crisis, but still can't get on board with it (but will pretend they care about housing crisis as long as 'it's in the right place', to use their euphamism)

Just on the old petrol station forecourt comment, there was a couple of them near where we used to live that were built on eventually.

In both cases they were 3 sided, 2 storey buildings of 1 & 2 bed flats.  Problem was they were all bought by buy to let landlords rather than 1st time buyers so there are always dozens of to let signs up.

[Riquende]

I particularly like their dementia villages ideas where residents live in an era they remember so are able to function like a healthy person would.

Sign me up for the 1980s, I'll take a house in New Waveville, Postpunkshire.

[Dr. Beaker]

Amazing what can be achieved with a bit of imagination. I love this development around the back of Kings Cross on the canal going up to Camden Town - I doubt if there are many gasometers in the green belt though.

[reddebs]

Sign me up for the 1980s, I'll take a house in New Waveville, Postpunkshire.

Yeah it's a great idea but they'd need constant updating for each generation 😂

[jillc]

All this talk often ends up going down avenues as everyone has different opinions. But surely we can agree on certain things? More houses are needed, any houses which get built need to be affordable for those trying to buy. In most cases it's preferable to be a area where the transport connections are already there. On the other side there are high concerns in environmental areas whether it be global warming, pollution and air quality. Wouldn't the best thing of all bring everyone of these groups to the table and find a way of working together for people, environment and wildlife itself. Labour are starting to listen to experts again and that's a good thing. So use all these groups expertise and stop being suspicious of others who have different concerns. I want to see this government find a new way of working going forward. I do think some on here are underestimating how bad wildlife is at this time, it is why the likes of the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts and other groups are mobilizing in a political sense. It's been years of not been listening too. Labour have an opportunity to be different and I hope that happens.

[reddebs]

Amazing what can be achieved with a bit of imagination. I love this development around the back of Kings Cross on the canal going up to Camden Town - I doubt if there are many gasometers in the green belt though.

Superb!

Pod living or similar is another great concept if anyone ever watches "Amazing Spaces".

It's not a new idea as years ago my mate and her hubby's first home was a new build 1 bed house. 

Whatever ideas they come up with, local councils need to become the largest landlords again.

[Dr. Beaker]

All this talk often ends up going down avenues as everyone has different opinions. But surely we can agree on certain things? More houses are needed, any houses which get built need to be affordable for those trying to buy. In most cases it's preferable to be a area where the transport connections are already there. On the other side there are high concerns in environmental areas whether it be global warming, pollution and air quality. Wouldn't the best thing of all bring everyone of these groups to the table and find a way of working together for people, environment and wildlife itself. Labour are starting to listen to experts again and that's a good thing. So use all these groups expertise and stop being suspicious of others who have different concerns. I want to see this government find a new way of working going forward. I do think some on here are underestimating how bad wildlife is at this time, it is why the likes of the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts and other groups are mobilizing in a political sense. It's been years of not been listening too. Labour have an opportunity to be different and I hope that happens.

It does sound a bit like a recipe for an interminable logjam though. Maybe each development should have a small conservation area which the community could be proud of, I'm sure the kids would love it.

[Schmidt]

All this talk often ends up going down avenues as everyone has different opinions. But surely we can agree on certain things? More houses are needed, any houses which get built need to be affordable for those trying to buy. In most cases it's preferable to be a area where the transport connections are already there. On the other side there are high concerns in environmental areas whether it be global warming, pollution and air quality. Wouldn't the best thing of all bring everyone of these groups to the table and find a way of working together for people, environment and wildlife itself. Labour are starting to listen to experts again and that's a good thing. So use all these groups expertise and stop being suspicious of others who have different concerns. I want to see this government find a new way of working going forward. I do think some on here are underestimating how bad wildlife is at this time, it is why the likes of the RSPB, Wildlife Trusts and other groups are mobilizing in a political sense. It's been years of not been listening too. Labour have an opportunity to be different and I hope that happens.

I think there are enough challenges that making new housing optional pretty much guarantees it won't happen, so the government mandating it forces people to either find a compromise they're happy with or end up getting ignored.

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

I think there are enough challenges that making new housing optional pretty much guarantees it won't happen, so the government mandating it forces people to either find a compromise they're happy with or end up getting ignored.

Yep, importance wise, it's build or die imo.
Find a compromise or lose all of the environment / your backyard, that has to be the tone from the government for things to move.
Regulation to reduce 2nd home buy to lets, significant increases in yearly fees on such properties, tax on unoccupied housing can all be used to right-size the housing stock.
Obviously immigration is inextricably linked to housing as well, which has to be planned for if you wish to avoid becoming Canada.
None of these things are insurmountable, unfortunately even if you make exceptional progress on this issue, it's far too easy for various groups obsessed with their own interests to get you out at the polls next.

[Red Beret]

We're going to need joined up thinking when it comes to policy. Another avenue to explore is better regulation of private landlords, and a crackdown on rogue landlords.

I seem to remember in the run up to 2008 how properties were being traded like shares without ever being put up for letting. That only happened when the price bubble burst and owners needed tenants to cover the cost of the mortgage.

I wonder if it could become possible to seize properties and transfer them to social housing?

[Shankly998]

We're going to need joined up thinking when it comes to policy. Another avenue to explore is better regulation of private landlords, and a crackdown on rogue landlords.

I seem to remember in the run up to 2008 how properties were being traded like shares without ever being put up for letting. That only happened when the price bubble burst and owners needed tenants to cover the cost of the mortgage.

I wonder if it could become possible to seize properties and transfer them to social housing?

Seize properties? Enjoy the lawsuits and investors fleeing the UK. The country does need better regulation of private landlords sure but can't just go around seizing people's assets like that and not expect a massive economic blowback

[Schmidt]

Landlords absolutely need to be dealt with, getting rid of them alleviates the need for more housing, not getting rid of them makes building more homes less effective or even pointless.

Politicians being landlords should be illegal too.

[Shankly998]

Landlords absolutely need to be dealt with, getting rid of them alleviates the need for more housing, not getting rid of them makes building more homes less effective or even pointless.

Politicians being landlords should be illegal too.

Not everyone will ever be able to afford a house or would want to buy a house eg if they move somewhere to work for say a year. Of course landlords are needed there just needs to be better regulation of the sector . If you want the state to take takeover these properties how much are you willing to let the state spend on this?

[filopastry]

Not sure how getting rid of landlords helps, it may help lower prices to buy property but it will also lead to shortages of rental properties and higher rents.

[Schmidt]

Not everyone will ever be able to afford a house or would want to buy a house eg if they move somewhere to work for say a year. Of course landlords are needed there just needs to be better regulation of the sector . If you want the state to take takeover these properties how much are you willing to let the state spend on this?

I never said that, just that it's an issue that needs addressing, whether that's by limiting total properties, increasing tax with each additional property or something else entirely.

Not sure how getting rid of landlords helps, it may help lower prices to buy property but it will also lead to shortages of rental properties and higher rents.

Lower buy prices and less competition for properties means more buyers and fewer renters, at least in theory.

[west_london_red]

Landlords absolutely need to be dealt with, getting rid of them alleviates the need for more housing, not getting rid of them makes building more homes less effective or even pointless.

Politicians being landlords should be illegal too.

How are people supposed to rent if there are no landlords?

And getting rid of landlords doesn’t solve the housing crisis unless there are huge numbers of landlords with empty houses that they are sitting on. We need to build more houses and there is no getting away from that, and without wanting to come across all Faragist when you have hundreds of thousands of people net coming to the country each year you need somewhere to put them.

[Red Beret]

Seize properties? Enjoy the lawsuits and investors fleeing the UK. The country does need better regulation of private landlords sure but can't just go around seizing people's assets like that and not expect a massive economic blowback

Councils issue CPOs all the time. If a registered landlord is failing to meet their obligations defined by new regulations then they can and should be relieved of the burden of doing so.

Transferring the properties to social housing allows the homes to be utilised and maintained to a decent standard. It also flushes out the shysters who will treat tenants like shit for a quick coin.

[Shankly998]

I never said that, just that it's an issue that needs addressing, whether that's by limiting total properties, increasing tax with each additional property or something else entirely.

Lower buy prices and less competition for properties means more buyers and fewer renters, at least in theory.

You said getting rid of them you can't get rid of landlords entirely all you can do is change the type of landlord and how many properties they own

[Schmidt]

You said getting rid of them you can't get rid of landlords entirely all you can do is change the type of landlord and how many properties they own

I could have worded it better but I meant reducing.

[Red Beret]

Nobody’s talking about axing private landlords. It's about creating legislation that promotes sustainable housing with responsible landlords.

For that to happen you need both a carrot and a stick. Right now, it's nearly all carrot.

[Shankly998]

I could have worded it better but I meant reducing.

On that we're agreed

[Elmo!]

Landlords can act like parasites/scum because they know there will always be demand. It all comes down to building more houses in the end. Anything else is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

[spider-neil]

The size of this....

We're taking over this bitch!

[thaddeus]

As a country we're not very good at high density home building.  London is maybe the exception as land prices are so high but elsewhere most blocks of flats are really poorly built and nobody with the option to live elsewhere chooses to live in them.  The shabby leasehold and service charge scams don't help either.

We're not the US with huge swathes of land and people willing to do massive commutes from their developments.  Two storey house with front garden and/or driveway and back garden is a really inefficient use of land.  It's compounded by so many people turning those houses over as AirBnBs in certain parts of the country (where previously high rise hotels/apartment blocks would have catered for most tourists).

[oldfordie]

Labour are dissecting the Torys record on every policy, every wasted million will become known.
Going to be fun watching Labour ministers throw these failed costly Tory policys back in their face during PMQT +Ministers questions when the Tory ministers try to attack Labour

[classycarra]

Yep. 

It needs to be a whole community/infrastructure approach.  Building next to (or extending) existing areas, with infrastructure, makes sense.

I imagine then that you were pleased to hear Rachel Reeves yesterday namechecking Liverpool Central Docks (largest brown field site in the city) and Worcester Parkway (transport infrastructure already there) as stalled sites that they're going to help accelerate?

[Yorkykopite]

I'm liking the energy that's coming from the new government already. The meeting with the Metro mayors at Downing Street is a good example. It was good also that Starmer spent time alone with the Tory bloke Ben Houchen, since he'd never met him before. And now Houchen says he's onside. All good.

Contrast with Suella Braverman who has just made a speech saying....what? Sorry about 14 years of failure? About the wrecked economy and the crisis in the NHS? About how she spent too much time attacking the legal profession?....Nope. Saying instead how outrageous it was that her former Ministry once flew a Pride flag.

There you have it.

The Far Right (ie the Tories and Reform UK) will continue to wage this 'culture war' over the next five years. Labour is vulnerable if it gets dragged into it. The best thing the government can do is to concentrate on things which matter. History shows that when a Labour government achieves things on the economic front it can also rely on enough goodwill to push through necessary liberal reforms - and develop stuff that the Bravermans and the other culture warriors hate.

[Dr. Beaker]

Good job Labour haven't got a plan otherwise they'd be really busy.

[John C]

Nobody’s talking about axing private landlords. It's about creating legislation that promotes sustainable housing with responsible landlords.

Liverpool City Council have operated a landlord licensing scheme for many years. Something like that would help.

[gazzalfc]

See thats better.

[Red Beret]

I said before the election that once the Tories were out the country would wake up from a collective delirium. Once they hear their impotent ranting from the opposition benches, I think a number of people will be saying to themselves,  "fuck me, how did we let this shower run things for so long??"

[Schmidt]

I said before the election that once the Tories were out the country would wake up from a collective delirium. Once they hear their impotent ranting from the opposition benches, I think a number of people will be saying to themselves,  "fuck me, how did we let this shower run things for so long??"

Yet they'll continue to read the same newspapers that told them to vote Tory.

[classycarra]

Yet they'll continue to read the same newspapers that told them to vote Tory.

..but enough about the Guardian

[killer-heels]

Liverpool City Council have operated a landlord licensing scheme for many years. Something like that would help.

Been used in other cities as well.