Topic: Liverpool's Midfield

[marmite sw]

jones is good but hes not first team good .... just yet i think he will be but needs work

[number 168]

jones is good but hes not first team good .... just yet i think he will be but needs work

He is skillful and confident but he can be ponderous. I would like to see more urgency as he can slow up play..

[newterp]

He got 6 appearances including 3 starts this season lol. His goal was a deflected shot and his assist was a simple pass to Salah who then went on to score the solo goal of the season. But I get your point though. But you seem to miss mine.

I was countering the claim that Jones' gonna be a superstar. So, when he becomes a superstar, quote me and call my post shite. I'll be happy if that happens.

I'll call your post shit right now - hope that's ok.

Citing his appearances this season shows you are an idiot - started with a concussion - then a very very serious eye injury - then covid. He's been played when available. You don't start a CL game away if Klopp doesn't trust you.

[PoetryInMotion]

He got 6 appearances including 3 starts this season lol. His goal was a deflected shot and his assist was a simple pass to Salah who then went on to score the solo goal of the season. But I get your point though. But you seem to miss mine.

I was countering the claim that Jones' gonna be a superstar. So, when he becomes a superstar, quote me and call my post shite. I'll be happy if that happens.

Nobody is going to wait all that time to call your post as shite. Others are not saying, he will definitely become a superstar, they are saying there is a chance he might, whereas you are clear cut in saying he cannot be a superstar just because he is not Trent good or Foden good. There is a huge difference in both. The people who are saying there is a chance are not wrong even if he may not eventually become a superstar. Do you even know that different players develop at different rates and at different ages? Have you never heard of late bloomers?

I just went through the current best players in the League to see what they were doing at 20.

Alisson - Yet to make his senior debut.
Van Dijk - Was at Groningen in the Eredivisie, finishing 14th in the table. Nobody knew he was a world class talent. The next year, he was offered to Ajax and they declined him. They thought he was not good enough for them.
Robertson - Was playing for Dundee United in the Scottish Premiership.
Fabinho - Having struggled to make it through to the Real Madrid side from their academy, he was sent on loan to Monaco. When he turned 20, he had a grand total of 9 senior starts for his clubs.
Thiago - Under 15 starts for Barca when he turned 20.
Salah - Just moved to Basel in Switzerland from Egypt.
Mane - Was playing in the French 2nd Tier.
Firmino - Had 12 starts in Bundesliga for Hoffenheim, who finished 11th at the end of that season.
Ederson - Playing in the Portuguese league for Rio Ave.
Cancelo - Had 1 Top flight appearance for Benfica.
Rodri - 3 Top Flight appearances for Villareal.
Ruben Dias - Yet to make his debut in the Top flight for Benfica.
De Bruyne - Was playing in Belgium for Genk.
Bernardo Silva - Made 1 appearance for Benfica before being loaned out to Monaco (Btw, that's the 4th Benfica player that Man City have snatched in this list).
Sterling - Was a Premier League starter for Liverpool.
Mahrez - Was playing amateur football in France.
Mendy - Playing in the 3rd Division of France.
Thiago Silva - Was playing in the Portugues 3rd Division.
Rudiger - Less than 20 Bundesliga appearances for Stuttgart.
Kante - Was playing in the French 2nd Division.
Jorginho - Was playing in Italian 2nd Division for Hellas Verona.
Lukaku - Regular in the Belgian League, and had a good season for West Brom in the Premier League.
Bruno Fernandes - Regular for Udinese in Serie-A.
Vardy - Was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels earning £30 a week.
Son Heung-min - Regular for Hamburg in Bundesliga.

Out of these, you could've maybe predicted Sterling and at a stretch, Lukaku to have the career they've had when they were 20 - none of the rest were straight forward, whereas there have been plenty of talents hyped as better when they were 20, who've not made the cut. Development is not linear, so let's wait and see, before dismissing a promising talent eh?

[farawayred]

^^^ You have time on your hands, mate... But this is much appreciated information, thanks!

[RedSince86]

Tchouameni please as the Gini replacement.

I'm sold after watching Youtube videos the other day.

Linked heavily with Chelsea though the last few days.

[farawayred]

Tchouameni please as the Gini replacement.

I'm sold after watching Youtube videos the other day.

Linked heavily with Chelsea though the last few days.

No need for Tchouameni, I'd be happy with one quality player.

[mrantarctica]

No need for Tchouameni, I'd be happy with one quality player.

As long as it's not another injury prone midfielder. We have tchouameni of those

[Eeyore]

Nobody is going to wait all that time to call your post as shite. Others are not saying, he will definitely become a superstar, they are saying there is a chance he might, whereas you are clear cut in saying he cannot be a superstar just because he is not Trent good or Foden good. There is a huge difference in both. The people who are saying there is a chance are not wrong even if he may not eventually become a superstar. Do you even know that different players develop at different rates and at different ages? Have you never heard of late bloomers?

I just went through the current best players in the League to see what they were doing at 20.

Alisson - Yet to make his senior debut.
Van Dijk - Was at Groningen in the Eredivisie, finishing 14th in the table. Nobody knew he was a world class talent. The next year, he was offered to Ajax and they declined him. They thought he was not good enough for them.
Robertson - Was playing for Dundee United in the Scottish Premiership.
Fabinho - Having struggled to make it through to the Real Madrid side from their academy, he was sent on loan to Monaco. When he turned 20, he had a grand total of 9 senior starts for his clubs.
Thiago - Under 15 starts for Barca when he turned 20.
Salah - Just moved to Basel in Switzerland from Egypt.
Mane - Was playing in the French 2nd Tier.
Firmino - Had 12 starts in Bundesliga for Hoffenheim, who finished 11th at the end of that season.
Ederson - Playing in the Portuguese league for Rio Ave.
Cancelo - Had 1 Top flight appearance for Benfica.
Rodri - 3 Top Flight appearances for Villareal.
Ruben Dias - Yet to make his debut in the Top flight for Benfica.
De Bruyne - Was playing in Belgium for Genk.
Bernardo Silva - Made 1 appearance for Benfica before being loaned out to Monaco (Btw, that's the 4th Benfica player that Man City have snatched in this list).
Sterling - Was a Premier League starter for Liverpool.
Mahrez - Was playing amateur football in France.
Mendy - Playing in the 3rd Division of France.
Thiago Silva - Was playing in the Portugues 3rd Division.
Rudiger - Less than 20 Bundesliga appearances for Stuttgart.
Kante - Was playing in the French 2nd Division.
Jorginho - Was playing in Italian 2nd Division for Hellas Verona.
Lukaku - Regular in the Belgian League, and had a good season for West Brom in the Premier League.
Bruno Fernandes - Regular for Udinese in Serie-A.
Vardy - Was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels earning £30 a week.
Son Heung-min - Regular for Hamburg in Bundesliga.

Out of these, you could've maybe predicted Sterling and at a stretch, Lukaku to have the career they've had when they were 20 - none of the rest were straight forward, whereas there have been plenty of talents hyped as better when they were 20, who've not made the cut. Development is not linear, so let's wait and see, before dismissing a promising talent eh?

Bravo for the research.

Playing top level football at 19 is an achievement. Playing regular top level football for an elite club at 19 puts you in a very small group.

[mrantarctica]

Nobody is going to wait all that time to call your post as shite. Others are not saying, he will definitely become a superstar, they are saying there is a chance he might, whereas you are clear cut in saying he cannot be a superstar just because he is not Trent good or Foden good. There is a huge difference in both. The people who are saying there is a chance are not wrong even if he may not eventually become a superstar. Do you even know that different players develop at different rates and at different ages? Have you never heard of late bloomers?

I just went through the current best players in the League to see what they were doing at 20.

Alisson - Yet to make his senior debut.
Van Dijk - Was at Groningen in the Eredivisie, finishing 14th in the table. Nobody knew he was a world class talent. The next year, he was offered to Ajax and they declined him. They thought he was not good enough for them.
Robertson - Was playing for Dundee United in the Scottish Premiership.
Fabinho - Having struggled to make it through to the Real Madrid side from their academy, he was sent on loan to Monaco. When he turned 20, he had a grand total of 9 senior starts for his clubs.
Thiago - Under 15 starts for Barca when he turned 20.
Salah - Just moved to Basel in Switzerland from Egypt.
Mane - Was playing in the French 2nd Tier.
Firmino - Had 12 starts in Bundesliga for Hoffenheim, who finished 11th at the end of that season.
Ederson - Playing in the Portuguese league for Rio Ave.
Cancelo - Had 1 Top flight appearance for Benfica.
Rodri - 3 Top Flight appearances for Villareal.
Ruben Dias - Yet to make his debut in the Top flight for Benfica.
De Bruyne - Was playing in Belgium for Genk.
Bernardo Silva - Made 1 appearance for Benfica before being loaned out to Monaco (Btw, that's the 4th Benfica player that Man City have snatched in this list).
Sterling - Was a Premier League starter for Liverpool.
Mahrez - Was playing amateur football in France.
Mendy - Playing in the 3rd Division of France.
Thiago Silva - Was playing in the Portugues 3rd Division.
Rudiger - Less than 20 Bundesliga appearances for Stuttgart.
Kante - Was playing in the French 2nd Division.
Jorginho - Was playing in Italian 2nd Division for Hellas Verona.
Lukaku - Regular in the Belgian League, and had a good season for West Brom in the Premier League.
Bruno Fernandes - Regular for Udinese in Serie-A.
Vardy - Was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels earning £30 a week.
Son Heung-min - Regular for Hamburg in Bundesliga.

Out of these, you could've maybe predicted Sterling and at a stretch, Lukaku to have the career they've had when they were 20 - none of the rest were straight forward, whereas there have been plenty of talents hyped as better when they were 20, who've not made the cut. Development is not linear, so let's wait and see, before dismissing a promising talent eh?

An excellent summary. The irony being that you have omitted Hendo from our first team who was starting for Sunderland at 20 and essentially played 70 premier league games for them and was their standout young player which earned him a move to us. Ironically, despite this and the career he's then gone and had, he's still somehow paraded by many (including the original poster who prefers to call him good but not great) as anything but a modern great, including a certain Alex Ferguson too.

It just highlights to me how poor other people are at predicting what someone will do with their football career. I see absolutely no reason for someone to take a 20 year old prospect just breaking their way into arguably one of the top 5 teams in the world and say just because they watched a few games and didn't do anything Youtube worthy or gamebreaking that they just won't ever be top class, or that they'll only be good but not great. The overwhelming body of evidence suggests that this form of evaluation is completely unreliable. It is in fact why the old school scouting system has largely  been replaced by analytics and a more scientific/rigorous way of forming evaluations on players potential.

Curtis is plenty good enough. He has skills/talent, opportunity. He just needs the right bit of attitude/desire/determination, luck, and guidance to make the most of his career. Lets see what happens. When his career is done, and it turns out that it was simply 'good but not great', then I will concede the original point that maybe the poster knew something we didn't know (but actually you could just say this about every player and be correct the majority of the time and be pleasantly surprised if your wrong - win win but still stupid)

[idontknow]

An excellent summary. The irony being that you have omitted Hendo from our first team who was starting for Sunderland at 20 and essentially played 70 premier league games for them and was their standout young player which earned him a move to us.

Milner was also playing top level football at an early age.

[PoetryInMotion]

Yes, but it's not an irony. I omitted Hendo and Milner consciously because they aren't currently among the best players in the league and aren't close to their peak.

A couple of years ago, Hendo would've been in and a few other I mentioned would've been out. That's the way the game goes. And Hendo was a regular at Sunderland, but I don't think anyone still predicted him at that time to have the career he has had, and not to mention, how many times he was written off after joining Liverpool. If anything, it supports my point of each player having their own development rates.

You must've noticed how I didn't include Kane and Aubameyang as well, not because they were ripping it when they were 20, but because they're no longer at the level they used to be.

[Fromola]

An excellent summary. The irony being that you have omitted Hendo from our first team who was starting for Sunderland at 20 and essentially played 70 premier league games for them and was their standout young player which earned him a move to us.

I wouldn't count a middling/struggling PL club as the top level though. Tom Davies was starting regularly for Everton's midfield at 19 in the PL (or Jack Rodwell).

It's important for players to be getting first team minutes at 18-19 but it's rarely as a regular starter for a team at the top in midfield. Fabregas would be an example, it takes a real boy wonder. Pedri as well at Barca, with the caveat that they're a real shambles at the moment which opens up a place.

[Suareznumber7]

Bravo for the research.

Playing top level football at 19 is an achievement. Playing regular top level football for an elite club at 19 puts you in a very small group.

Playing top level football at that age also isn't a guarantee that you're going to become a superstar.  Just look at Renato Sanches and the trajectory of his career so far. 

[Bobsackamano]

He's likely not though.

Some young players look exciting when they first break out to the team. They are confident with the ball at their feet, don't look out of place among the first teamers, etc. but then that's it. They just hit a plateau. I'm afraid Jones is one of those guys. He does everything fairly well, but doesn't have an outstanding attribute. He's not strong, he's not fast, therefore can't really beat a man despite his nice footwork, doesn't have a killer pass in him, doesn't offer much of a goal threat.

At 20 Trent was already a starter for us, providing 12 assists a season. Foden at 20 was a regular starter at City despite their ridiculous squad, scoring 9 in the process. Those are the players who can become superstars. Jones is about to be 21 soon and he has done nothing special. The best we could hope for is him becoming a Henderson/Lallana type player (good but not great, and definitely not superstar).

It'd be foolish to bank on the likes of Jones and Elliott to become the future mainstay of our midfield.

I hope you are wrong but fear you may be proved correct. His appearances in the 2019-20 season were very promising, he seemed to have a dynamism and creative instinct that's not really flourished since then. However last season was a bad one for any young player to come in and play a lot of games, the team was in turmoil with injuries and it makes it much more difficult for players starting out.

It's a toss up, you are right about him not really having a distinguishing attribute but that could because he's more of an all rounder and those type of players tend to come into their own aged 23-24 rather than earlier.

Anyway let's hope he bangs in a couple today and kicks on, sometimes that's all a young player needs to become the player they can be, confidence and belief!

[Fromola]

Playing top level football at that age also isn't a guarantee that you're going to become a superstar.  Just look at Renato Sanches and the trajectory of his career so far.

It's often going to be the wonderkid types who are playing regularly at that age. Some of them stay the real deal others don't. Ousmane Dembele was meant to be a superstar at 17-18.

A bar career move/injuries/ending up with the wrong manager can often set players back a lot.

[PoetryInMotion]

Wow thanks for the essay. I didn't read all of it though because I do know that there are late boomers lol.

Yeah, you know that and you are still skeptical of him because he isn't as good as Trent/Foden at 20? Either you are being willfully ignorant or you cannot put 2 and 2 together.

Anyway, if you have reading trouble, you shouldn't be on a forum, eh?

Now the person I replied to was definitely saying Jones will become a superstar. He literally wrote:
And in my reply I wrote:
Between "is gonna be" and "not likely", which one leans towards "definitely" and which one leans towards "there's a chance", you moron?

​

I'm not bothered with your exchange with the other poster that you are mentioning. My comment was based on the general sentiments/opinions of people on Jones and your kill-joy comment regarding that. The general sentiments are that he can become a superstar, and there is no evidence as of now why he cannot. I can relate to people who say he has to improve certain areas of his game, I do agree with them, but to be this negative on a good young player was unwarranted. Yes, a few others may have been optimistic about our youngsters, what's wrong in that? It's not like everyone has said he will be a superstar for sure and then you are Nostradamus and you know he won't and are educating others here.

My point clearly addressed your notion that you have to be Trent good or Foden good at 20 to become a superstar which is plain wrong. It is not the case, and there are counter-examples everywhere around. I gave a list of counter-examples with players who have been in various stages of their development at 20, which you didn't bother to read (shows you have no interest in a productive discussion), but are enthusiastic about calling others who disagree with you as "morons". You, sir, have been reported 

Btw, as smart as you want to sound by all those cute highlighting of not likely and gonna be and definitely, you also said

The best we could hope for is him becoming a Henderson/Lallana type player (good but not great, and definitely not superstar).

Not in quite in line with what you are claiming, is it? All I'm sure is that the above statement definitely used 'definitely not superstar'.

I only commented on your post, yet you want to resort to personal attacks, I'm least interested in extending this bit of extremely immature name-calling in your post. Good Bye. Next, what? You're going to call me outside?

Now with this much evidence it's sufficient to call your post shite without resorting to the future.

What I posted on the topic wasn't even an opinion, it was a definitive piece of information on different players that several other genuine posters found interesting, means zilch for me what you think is shite.

[mrantarctica]

A couple of years ago, Hendo would've been in and a few other I mentioned would've been out. That's the way the game goes. And Hendo was a regular at Sunderland, but I don't think anyone still predicted him at that time to have the career he has had, and not to mention, how many times he was written off after joining Liverpool. If anything, it supports my point of each player having their own development rates.

Put yer boxing gloves down mate. I'm agreeing with you not arguing with you. This is exactly my point.

I was pointing out the irony that the original poster you were responding to was saying that Hendo was 'good but not great', yet he WAS starting regularly at a young age and was the best young thing to come out of Sunderland for quite some time and then became a world beater. What I am highlighting is the deficiency in the original poster's argument which is that

i) top class players exhibit that ability right from the outset and it stays that way
ii) those that do not, generally do not become top class

The deficiencies are that plenty of players demonstrably become top class even though they have modest beginnings, and that the poster can't even identify what top class is when he's out there calling Hendo good but not great even though he was one of the integral figures to 2 champions league finals, a world club cup title, a premier league title and a sustained run at the title consistently against the odds considering we are effectively fighting against a small well resourced nation that doesn't play by the rules and haven't done anything of the sort for years. Hendo was widely acknowledged to be an integral component to our surprising title run under Rodgers as well and it was no surprise that many acknowledged our title challenge fell apart when he picked up a suspension late in the season. The point is that top class comes in many guises and has nothing to do with what you are doing at a young age because people change over time.

Hendo's level has fallen considerably compared to 2 seasons ago, this further reiterates my point that a players capabilities are always changing. Players can go from good to great, and from great to good, and any other combination. Again, this is not informed by what you were doing at 21.

[PoetryInMotion]

Put yer boxing gloves down mate. I'm agreeing with you not arguing with you. This is exactly my point.

Actually I was agreeing with you too, didn't mean to sound argumentative in that post. I didn't get which part you called as irony. I was just clarifying regarding missing Hendo and Milly (raised by another poster) if I didn't put the right words on paper.

Apologies if it sounded something else.

[mrantarctica]

Actually I was agreeing with you too, didn't mean to sound argumentative in that post. I didn't get which part you called as irony. I was just clarifying regarding missing Hendo and Milly (raised by another poster) if I didn't put the right words on paper.

Apologies if it sounded something else.

All good. I think the main thing is that the original poster probably completely misguided about assessing class.

Personally, I think there's too much labelling of players as top class this or world class that. I think it's much more useful to use terms like this at the conclusion of someone's career. If they have been at the top of their game for a long time and had a major impact on the outcome of matches or tournaments, or been a major outlier in comparison to the other players in the same division/tournament etc then they can be described as top class players. For everyone else, it's just a matter of current form.

Curtis needs to be back in the team playing regularly and be given the license to display his natural talents in the game with his creativity and skills. He's had major disruptions with a serious eye injury but hopefully he is back and in contention for regular selection now. Couldn't give a toss about what Mount or Foden are doing for their teams to be honest. Can let Mr Southgate worry about all that

[mercurial]

You don’t really need a world class player in every position. Is he good enough to play 20-25 games in a Liverpool side challenging for trophies. Then that’s all we need. Curtis is doing that reasonably well already. Are there better players, bloody hell yes there are. There is always someone better or more suited to a manager style. I don’t think any of us really expects him to be a Pirlo or Maradona. Can he be a player like Gini or Milner in terms of fitting into a title challenging side? If he can and is from the academy then most top teams would bite your hand off for him. It is really difficult to see academy lads consistently playing in on the top sides

[SamLad]

You don’t really need a world class player in every position.

yep - shankly's quote comes to mind.

[jepovic]

That game was a great example of how important Firmino is to our midfield, especially in buildup. The way he meets the defenders, finds space and links up. Jota doesn't do that. I mean, we also got a very clear display why Jota plays, amazing striker, but the different ways they play affect our midfield a lot.

[disgraced cake]

Jones was brilliant last night, off the back of getting 90 mins against Brentford too. Hoping he can stay fit until the end of the season and perform, which would leave him in good stead to start games next year too, it's all been a bit too stop/start for him this season so far. What a talent though, still not 21 until the end of the month either.

[redk84]

Can he be a player like Gini or Milner in terms of fitting into a title challenging side? If he can and is from the academy then most top teams would bite your hand off for him. It is really difficult to see academy lads consistently playing in on the top sides

I see him as being a Gini-type....and that kind of player can be used in any squad, and from ur youth ranks without cost? Perfect.

[MNAA]

With everyone fit, Fabinho - Thiago - Keita should be our first choice midfield 3. Well at least that would be my choice …

[RedG13]

With everyone fit, Fabinho - Thiago - Keita should be our first choice midfield 3. Well at least that would be my choice …

or Fabinho - Thiago - Elliott. Will be interesting to see what the go too Midfield is in a big game.

[Asam]

I’m pretty confident that Jones will have a fantastic career for us, his firm this season is down to injuries and disruption to his rhythm, there aren’t many midfield players if his age that I would swap him for

[Suareznumber7]

With everyone fit, Fabinho - Thiago - Keita should be our first choice midfield 3. Well at least that would be my choice …

After how well Keita played yesterday, it'll be interesting to see who Klopp picks in the midfield against Inter. 

[MNAA]

With everyone fit, Fabinho - Thiago - Keita should be our first choice midfield 3. Well at least that would be my choice …

Stating this again … Fab-Thiago-Naby … first choice midfielders (with all due respect to Hendo)

[CanuckYNWA]

Stating this again … Fab-Thiago-Naby … first choice midfielders (with all due respect to Hendo)

Listen i love hendo, think hes an amazing captain. But the reality is, he struggles being pressured. Its why he does better when playing a 6 but again he isnt as good as Fabinho at breaking up play/passing lanes. The simple fact is that Keita and Thiago close control and ball retention are better. And when playing against a team like City you have to be really quick and smart with the ball

Henderson needs time and space. Imo he should be back-up to Thiago/Keita moving forward

[RedG13]

Listen i love hendo, think hes an amazing captain. But the reality is, he struggles being pressured. Its why he does better when playing a 6 but again he isnt as good as Fabinho at breaking up play/passing lanes. The simple fact is that Keita and Thiago close control and ball retention are better. And when playing against a team like City you have to be really quick and smart with the ball

Henderson needs time and space. Imo he should be back-up to Thiago/Keita moving forward

In big games. But When there a lot of fixture, I still think they going to split time with each other. There as to be a balance with it which Klopp has been good at though.
Keeping Thiago and Naby available to play is important.

[CanuckYNWA]

In big games. But When there a lot of fixture, I still think they going to split time with each other. There as to be a balance with it which Klopp has been good at though.
Keeping Thiago and Naby available to play is important.

I do agree, he will play plenty. But when playing teams who have intense pressing like City and you cant dwell he should not be starting

Its why he will probably start vs United but not Everton as United are horrible at pressing

[redk84]

Considering we are almost definitely not going to sign anyone now...

Fab - will always play where possible
Thiago - as above
Hendo  / Keita  - between them the other position in midfield

This is how I see it.

Curtis, I was hoping last season would be his breakthrough one but it didn't happen. Maybe this one will be? He has the skillset and fits into the team without players needing to babysit him from what ive seen. A solid squad option at the moment

Elliott and Carvalho I don't know as much about considering I hardly watch football outside of our first team. Elliott to me looked an exciting prospect before getting injured last season, but unfortunately didn't see enough of him.
Klopp does utilise everyone in the early parts of the season but then reverts to a certain set of players....
My question is, I guess mainly for Elliott - who seems to be rated v.highly on here - is he really going to be a week in/week out choice over Hendo or Keita? I mean in the slog of the season....or will he be a solid squad member like Curtis, which is what I think he will be. Along with Milner

Carvalho I think looks exciting and will be a good option off the bench, not sure he will be starting alot outside of domestic cup games however. But maybe I am doing him an injustice here, he ripped up the championship so why not? But see him getting the least amount of minutes to be honest

Ox I have no idea what to expect now from him honestly

[mrantarctica]

Considering we are almost definitely not going to sign anyone now...

Fab - will always play where possible
Thiago - as above
Hendo  / Keita  - between them the other position in midfield

This is how I see it.

Curtis, I was hoping last season would be his breakthrough one but it didn't happen. Maybe this one will be? He has the skillset and fits into the team without players needing to babysit him from what ive seen. A solid squad option at the moment

Elliott and Carvalho I don't know as much about considering I hardly watch football outside of our first team. Elliott to me looked an exciting prospect before getting injured last season, but unfortunately didn't see enough of him.
Klopp does utilise everyone in the early parts of the season but then reverts to a certain set of players....
My question is, I guess mainly for Elliott - who seems to be rated v.highly on here - is he really going to be a week in/week out choice over Hendo or Keita? I mean in the slog of the season....or will he be a solid squad member like Curtis, which is what I think he will be. Along with Milner

Carvalho I think looks exciting and will be a good option off the bench, not sure he will be starting alot outside of domestic cup games however. But maybe I am doing him an injustice here, he ripped up the championship so why not? But see him getting the least amount of minutes to be honest

Ox I have no idea what to expect now from him honestly

I wonder if it is part of giving some of the older players, or those playing internationals or likely to be involved heavily at the latter end of the season, a bit more time to build up fitness and to preserve a bit of freshness. I think the season is so long, and there are so many games that you want to be able to inject a bit of freshness into the squad at intervals.

[Mighty_Red]

Thiago is going to be a big miss, both for his skills and being a senior player. We will need Naby and Curtis back as soon as possible and hope that Fab and Hendo don't pick anything up.

Our problem is not just the available numbers, it's the fact that we have less options for rotation which will impact us later in the season if we have to flog Fab and Hendo.

[BobPaisley3]

Whenever we’re linked with a midfielder we always get the line from media, Twitter experts, random folk, ‘We can’t sign X because they aren’t suited to our system.’ I played and coached to a relatively good level alongside and against some excellent midfield players however never this alien midfielder that we so desire. You get box to box, you get 6, you get 10, you get a mixture, you get maximum energy but does anyone care to tell me what it is? I’m not being flippant but Hendo, Fab, etc- why do they suit a Klopp midfield but barely one other single midfielder in world football does. I understand the VVD wait to buy, that was about quality, but I’m at a loss as to why we can’t re arrange midfield.

[Samie]

We'll need 3 Midfielders next summer or earlier in my opinion.  Any combination of players who can play as a #6 and/or '8.

Ox will go, Milner too. Keita  maybe as well. Hendo and Thiago a year older. Bajcetic probably an able deputy for Fab in the #6 role.

[WorldChampions]

Fabinho was so frustrating tonight, out battled in his duels, constantly turning towards our own goal and passing to centre halves and any time he tried a forward pass he gave it away.

He really needs some time out of the side with Hendo in the six, unfortunately that would probably mean Carvalho and Elliot infront of him because Naby has done his usual disappearing act.


Milner is a solid pro and can do twenty off the bench to wrap up a game but shouldn't be starting in midfield at his age.

[SMASHerano]

I mean even if we wait for Jude Bellingham until next summer, what would be the problem getting someone this summer? We're losing at least 2 midfielders next summer (Ox and Milner) so we will need replacing them both.