Author Topic: Loan Watch 2019/20  (Read 232353 times)

Offline farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,283
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #80 on: March 18, 2016, 06:36:37 am »
How the fuck can he not get a working visa?...
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline 88_RED

  • Not a real bookie though.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,698
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #81 on: March 18, 2016, 07:52:51 am »
All left foot, but it's a beaut
F*CK 0FF Mourinho..

Offline Redcap

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,053
  • You wrote a bad song Petey!
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #82 on: March 18, 2016, 09:51:36 am »
Never really got this, what do they regard as exceptional talent and how the hell are they judging it ?

I think games for the national team was one of the measures, right?

Offline farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,283
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #83 on: March 18, 2016, 07:25:20 pm »
I think games for the national team was one of the measures, right?
Either, or. If a player had 75% appearance in the national team in the last year (I think), it's a straightforward decision. If he didn't, one has to prove "exceptional talent". What that means is beyond me. It's not the first time when top managers are raving about a player, but he's not considered an exceptional talent by that committee. And vice-versa, I remember Rafa speaking about such a case made for an unnamed midfielder, who had better statistics than Stevie G in his prime.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Simplexity

  • Do we need the xity? (apparently not)
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,771
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #84 on: March 18, 2016, 07:42:59 pm »
Working permits never made any sense for professional footballers playing for Premier League clubs.

Do they think we have an ongoing scheme where these lads are renovating houses on the side?

Offline Mutton Geoff

  • 'The Invigilator'
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,663
  • Life is a journey, not a destination.
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #85 on: March 20, 2016, 08:26:57 pm »
nor way! realy? :D

Has your Swede has gone?
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline HighSix

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,565
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #86 on: March 20, 2016, 08:32:06 pm »
Does the 'exceptional talent' loophole still exist?

I thought the subjective FA panel was completely scrapped last summer window with just the points system now. 

Offline Solomon Grundy

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 45,466
  • LFC - Living rent-free in the heads of our rivals
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2016, 06:10:55 am »
Never really got this, what do they regard as exceptional talent and how the hell are they judging it ?

Man Utd being interested in signing you.

Offline RyanBabel19

  • Embarrassing.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,935
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2016, 10:13:51 am »
Man Utd being interested in signing you.

haha amusingly true to be honest

Offline paddysour

  • likes balls
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,403
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2016, 12:23:13 pm »
Does the 'exceptional talent' loophole still exist?

I thought the subjective FA panel was completely scrapped last summer window with just the points system now.

Yeah Firmino got one based on it as he didn't have enough Brazil caps

Offline diegoLFC7

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,962
  • LFC
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #90 on: March 21, 2016, 01:04:26 pm »
It could be based on the transfer fee as well, or how much hes earning per week.
Seen us win everything

Offline RedSince86

  • I blame Chris de Burgh
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,352
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #91 on: March 21, 2016, 01:07:27 pm »
Not sure why we haven't loaned him to a Portuguse club,He would have no language problems and its a fantastic league for developing young players and they don't have draconian work permit problems in Portugal.

Not sure why he went to Finland when Portugal would have been better
"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

Offline .adam

  • .asking .for .trouble .for .arson .around .in .Sweden
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,469
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #92 on: March 21, 2016, 04:09:28 pm »
Not sure why we haven't loaned him to a Portuguse club,He would have no language problems and its a fantastic league for developing young players and they don't have draconian work permit problems in Portugal.

Not sure why he went to Finland when Portugal would have been better

Perhaps no Portuguese clubs were interested.

Offline BabuYagu

  • It's Portuguese for 'BabyYoghurt'. The John Motson of RAWK. Or Barry Davies. Or Charley Boorman, even. Expertly silent fist-pumper. Needs to pay more attention. Repeatly analing goalkeepers.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,350
  • wakelet.com/@BabuYagu
    • Wakelet of the Articles I have written
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #93 on: March 21, 2016, 04:42:52 pm »
I think he went to Finland because of the transfer window being open there and the Finnish season is shorter so we could get him back in January to re-apply. A loan to Portugal would have needed to be a season-long international loan.

Belgium is a good place to get work permits though too so it´s all good.
My first article on Anfield Index on Shaqiri. Enjoy. bit.ly/2mAq3Qd

Offline farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,283
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #94 on: March 21, 2016, 07:51:14 pm »
Yeah Firmino got one based on it as he didn't have enough Brazil caps
He's a bit shit then. We should have gone for Sergi Moreno of Andorra - >50 caps for a nation nested between two football greats...

Belgium is a good place to get work permits though too so it´s all good.
Would that help for Allan's situation after the loan in terms of British work permit?
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Escorcio

  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 901
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #95 on: March 21, 2016, 08:31:11 pm »
He's a bit shit then. We should have gone for Sergi Moreno of Andorra - >50 caps for a nation nested between two football greats...

Country needs to be in the top 70 ranked by FIFA

Offline farawayred

  • Whizz For Atomms. Nucular boffin. A Mars A Day Helps Him Work, Rest And Play
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,283
  • Oh yes, I'm a believer!
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #96 on: March 22, 2016, 12:25:09 am »
Country needs to be in the top 70 ranked by FIFA
My bad then. But Andorra is between the 3rd and 24th...  :)

I just find it ridiculous that such clauses exist in the law for two reasons. First, in arts and sports it's hard to say who is better than the next person, especially at that age. It's all subjective. And second, who is doing the comparison? You have top coaches saying one thing and a judicial element (maybe with FM experience at best) ruling another.
Cruyff: "Victory is not enough, there also needs to be beautiful football."

Offline Crouch Potato

  • Srofa spud!
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,085
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #97 on: March 22, 2016, 01:38:52 am »
There are various reasons why he struggles to get a work permit.

Although the main criteria for WPs is senior caps, it also helps if a player has U-21, U-19 caps etc. so because he lacked any youth caps when we signed him we were bound to struggle to get a permit.

Offline GreatEx

  • pectations. might be a cunt but isn't a capitalist cunt. Blissfully ignorant.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,200
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #98 on: March 22, 2016, 01:46:53 am »
Well at least the system works to some extent, imagine if Firmino had been rejected because of insufficient caps? "Sorry, your 29m pound player who's about to score double figure goals and assists in his debut PL season is not talented enough to displace a local worker, next!"

Offline Ken-Obi

  • Hasn't got Wan, doesn't deserve Wan
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,183
  • Super Title: isn't going to get one of these either
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #99 on: March 22, 2016, 01:49:28 am »
Well at least the system works to some extent, imagine if Firmino had been rejected because of insufficient caps? "Sorry, your 29m pound player who's about to score double figure goals and assists in his debut PL season is not talented enough to displace a local worker, next!"
They just need to see his stats side by side to the great Gareth Barry.
Someone should do the right thing - go back in time to 1992 and destroy the codes to Championship Manager before it is ever released

Offline redmark

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,395
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #100 on: March 22, 2016, 03:45:41 am »
Well at least the system works to some extent, imagine if Firmino had been rejected because of insufficient caps? "Sorry, your 29m pound player who's about to score double figure goals and assists in his debut PL season is not talented enough to displace a local worker, next!"

Think that's bad? Better vote to stay in the EU.
Stop whining : https://spiritofshankly.com/ : https://thefsa.org.uk/join/ : https://reclaimourgame.com/
The focus now should not be on who the owners are, but limits on what owners can do without formal supporter agreement. At all clubs.

Online Too early for flapjacks?

  • It is? Hmm. How about a Groundhog steak? No? Damn. Thinks James Milner has the perfect body.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,288
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #101 on: March 22, 2016, 10:19:27 am »
Had a completely random dream last night that he came on for us later on this season. Turned to my brother and said didn't he need a work permit and he replied he got one and I just missed it. Something wrong with me to be dreaming about something so random and specific but hopefully it prophetic!

Offline clinical

  • incision required - a bad case of an urgent rawkectomy? "And of course I've got this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left side."
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,680
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #102 on: March 22, 2016, 10:45:14 am »
Man Utd being interested in signing you.

No it's definitely arsenal.
Thank Fowler we're not getting Caulker

Online Too early for flapjacks?

  • It is? Hmm. How about a Groundhog steak? No? Damn. Thinks James Milner has the perfect body.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,288
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #103 on: July 6, 2016, 03:16:07 pm »
Does he need a work permit to feature in friendly matches or does that just apply to competitive games?

Offline SwissV

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,252
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #104 on: July 6, 2016, 04:59:44 pm »
Does he need a work permit to feature in friendly matches or does that just apply to competitive games?

think he can play friendlies. Isnt that what happened with Sebastian Leto back in the day? Would out on loan every year then play in the pre season friendlies?
Origi will be our Lawendowski , quote me

Offline Haggis36

  • purveyor of better gifs than trendisnotdestiny
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,564
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #105 on: July 6, 2016, 07:24:42 pm »
What's the endgame for this? I mean, is there any point continually loaning him out when we don't seem to have any chance of getting him a work permit? He'd need to be playing regularly for Brazil would he not, to have any realistic chance, under the new rules? Don't see how that happens in the next few years.

Offline sminp

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,796
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #106 on: July 6, 2016, 07:27:40 pm »
What's the endgame for this? I mean, is there any point continually loaning him out when we don't seem to have any chance of getting him a work permit? He'd need to be playing regularly for Brazil would he not, to have any realistic chance, under the new rules? Don't see how that happens in the next few years.

If he features regularly in one of the top leagues then that helps too as it makes it clearer whether or not he's of sufficient talent. Vaguely remember there was talk of going to somewhere like Holland next as that's a step up from the leagues he's played in so far.
My Betfair referal code for anyone who wants it: R6K4MTAQM (You get a £25 free bet)

"Liverpool are magic, Everton are tragic."
"It was like playing in a foreign country." Ian Rush on his time with Juventus in Italy
"Don't worry Alan. At least you'll be able to play close to a great team!" Bill Shankly to A

Offline HighSix

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,565
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #107 on: July 6, 2016, 08:17:08 pm »
What's the endgame for this? I mean, is there any point continually loaning him out when we don't seem to have any chance of getting him a work permit? He'd need to be playing regularly for Brazil would he not, to have any realistic chance, under the new rules? Don't see how that happens in the next few years.

I worked it out a few weeks ago but cant remember exactly... Something like we get close in the required appeal points with the following ->

- His contract is in the top 75% of those at the club
- Plays at least 30% of games for a club in one of the top six European leagues
- Plays at least 30% of games for a club in the CL / Europa

So loaned to a club in the Europa & a new contract in the next year would be perfect.

Other ways to pick up points but thought that was the most realistic unless I understand it wrong or the website was incorrect.

« Last Edit: July 6, 2016, 08:29:15 pm by HighSix »

Offline CraigDS

  • Lite. Smelt it and dealt it. Worrawhopper.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 61,461
  • YNWA
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #108 on: July 6, 2016, 08:18:47 pm »
I worked it out a few weeks ago but cant remember exactly... Something like we get close in the required appeal points with the following ->

- His contract is in the top 75% of those at the club
- Plays at least 30% of games for a club in the top six European league
- Plays at least 30% of games for a club in the CL / Europa

Other ways to pick up points but thought that was the most realistic unless I understand it wrong or the website was incorrect.

Is there nothing for playing for your country's youth team anymore? Kinda screws every young player.

Offline HighSix

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,565
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #109 on: July 6, 2016, 08:22:20 pm »
Is there nothing for playing for your country's youth team anymore? Kinda screws every young player.

May be another section relevant to that.

All I saw was if the player is under 21 the last 12 months are counted towards the required international cap percentage rather than 24 months for those over 21.

Offline Haggis36

  • purveyor of better gifs than trendisnotdestiny
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,564
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #110 on: July 6, 2016, 09:00:05 pm »
I worked it out a few weeks ago but cant remember exactly... Something like we get close in the required appeal points with the following ->

- His contract is in the top 75% of those at the club
- Plays at least 30% of games for a club in one of the top six European leagues
- Plays at least 30% of games for a club in the CL / Europa

So loaned to a club in the Europa & a new contract in the next year would be perfect.

Other ways to pick up points but thought that was the most realistic unless I understand it wrong or the website was incorrect.

That's useful to know, thanks for that!

Is it just any club in the top 6 leagues? Presume they are England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France and...Holland? A loan to Holland (maybe even France) or a smaller EL club from a random nation (maybe with a 30% clause in the loan agreement) seems the most viable route then. Klopp seems to really rate him so I suspect the club is trying their hardest to figure something out.

Be interesting to see how much (if at all) he features in the pre-season.

Offline Redman0151

  • Stills and Nash Warloch
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,967
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #111 on: July 6, 2016, 09:16:31 pm »
That's useful to know, thanks for that!

Is it just any club in the top 6 leagues? Presume they are England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France and...Holland? A loan to Holland (maybe even France) or a smaller EL club from a random nation (maybe with a 30% clause in the loan agreement) seems the most viable route then. Klopp seems to really rate him so I suspect the club is trying their hardest to figure something out.

Be interesting to see how much (if at all) he features in the pre-season.

Portugal not Holland I think, they're shite these days
"I would say we certainly have the resources to compete with anybody in football." Tom Werner 12/04/2012

Offline HighSix

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,565
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #112 on: July 6, 2016, 09:24:18 pm »
Is it just any club in the top 6 leagues? Presume they are England, Spain, Germany, Italy, France and...Holland? A loan to Holland (maybe even France) or a smaller EL club from a random nation (maybe with a 30% clause in the loan agreement) seems the most viable route then. Klopp seems to really rate him so I suspect the club is trying their hardest to figure something out.

As I understand its a single point for the league appearances & another point for CL/ Europa appearances. Then being in the top 75% earners with us is worth two points... A player requires five points for the Exceptions Panel to recommend a work permit but if you get four they have another set of more lenient criteria for the final point.

Not sure who the top six European leagues are right now but this is how they are ranked.

Quote
Defined as the six European leagues which provide the most players to the top 20 squads in the FIFA World Rankings and the two Central and South American leagues which provide the most players to the top 20 squads in the FIFA World Rankings.

Offline Haggis36

  • purveyor of better gifs than trendisnotdestiny
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,564
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #113 on: July 6, 2016, 09:31:13 pm »
As I understand its a single point for the league appearances & another point for CL/ Europa appearances. Then being in the top 75% earners with us is worth two points... A player requires five points for the Exceptions Panel to recommend a work permit but if you get four they have another set of more lenient criteria for the final point.

Not sure who the top six European leagues are right now but this is how they are ranked.

Ah I see so it's not you meet one of those and you're in. Does the top 75% refer to every player that the club pays a wage to (i.e. including youth players)? Otherwise I think meeting that could be tricky unless we gave him a decent wage hike.

Portugal not Holland I think, they're shite these days

Might be even better then actually, might be more interest and no language/culture barrier.

Offline the_red_pill

  • Hasn't got a fucking clue when the Reds are playing next.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,597
  • Frankly my dear...
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #114 on: July 6, 2016, 09:32:37 pm »
I worked it out a few weeks ago but cant remember exactly... Something like we get close in the required appeal points with the following ->

- His contract is in the top 75% of those at the club
- Plays at least 30% of games for a club in one of the top six European leagues
- Plays at least 30% of games for a club in the CL / Europa

So loaned to a club in the Europa & a new contract in the next year would be perfect.

Other ways to pick up points but thought that was the most realistic unless I understand it wrong or the website was incorrect.


2 & 3... are those either/ors, or ands?
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline HighSix

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,565
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #115 on: July 6, 2016, 09:39:44 pm »
Ah I see so it's not you meet one of those and you're in. Does the top 75% refer to every player that the club pays a wage to (i.e. including youth players)? Otherwise I think meeting that could be tricky unless we gave him a decent wage hike.

Top 30 earners so more or less the first team & a couple of fringe players I guess.

2 & 3... are those either/ors, or ands?

Think its a point each. Will post the criteria just need to find the sites again.

Offline HighSix

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,565
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #116 on: July 6, 2016, 09:49:16 pm »
The first criteria is below. Theres then a second more lenient one & finally a third stage that looks at 'highly extenuating circumstances' like injury or free transfers I believe.



FA PDF download _>
http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/registrations/gbe-criteria-201516-updated.ashx

Easier to read blog on it ->
http://www.danielgeey.com/the-foreigner-debate-the-fas-new-work-permit-regulations-explained/


Offline RedSince86

  • I blame Chris de Burgh
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 17,352
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #117 on: July 6, 2016, 11:15:45 pm »
We should loan him to a Portuguese team,no language barrier and it seems to be a fantastic league to develop young players.
"Since its purchase by the sheikh of Abu Dhabi, Manchester City has managed to cheat its way into the top echelon of European football and create a global, immensely profitable football empire, ignoring rules along the way. The club's newfound glory is rooted in lies."

Offline KOTP

  • Arch Cunt + Official RAWK scarf swapper. Possibly the most laughably out-dated signature on the entire site, we hope.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,474
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #118 on: July 7, 2016, 10:35:27 am »
We should loan him to a Portuguese team,no language barrier and it seems to be a fantastic league to develop young players.
and while he is over there he could find his long lost portuguese great grandmother and suddenly arrive back next season with a Portuguese Passport

Offline Yiannis

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,033
  • Reds fan from Greece
Re: Allan Rodrigues de Souza
« Reply #119 on: July 7, 2016, 11:59:54 am »
We should loan him to a Portuguese team,no language barrier and it seems to be a fantastic league to develop young players.

Off topic but the number of players in this Euro that have come from Sporting Lisbon's academy is ridiculous.
Messi in fact doesn't have a recognizable trait.