Author Topic: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come  (Read 10435 times)

Offline Paul Tomkins

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Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« on: April 5, 2005, 10:48:43 PM »
How can the best performance, and the best win of the season 末 against as good a team as there currently is in Europe 末 feel, in some strange way, like a defeat? You can go two-nil down and score a late goal in a tie like this, and feel buoyant at the final whistle. And yet, in this instance, beating Juventus didn't feel, well, like beating Juventus. It will take time to sit back and realise the magnitude of the result, even if Liverpool are ultimately defeated in the second leg.

   The disappointment was no doubt largely down to the soft nature of Juventus' goal, but anyone who wants to be too harsh on Scott Carson needs to realise that he made an outstanding save in the first half, and at 19, is a total novice in goalkeeping terms 末 the equivalent of a 16-year-old outfield player, in terms of how they develop at different rates, and in different stages. Carson's save from Del Piero was possibly the best 末 and almost certainly the most important 末 of any made this season by the club's three 'keepers. Had that gone in, it was 1-1, and then the game would have taken a completely different course.

   Before the game anyone connected to Liverpool would have taken a 2-1 victory, but as with the Leverkusen game, it was the sting in the tail that gave the result a different complexion. But it also helps Liverpool retain some underdog status, and that will help 末 just as the Leverkusen goal served as a warning for the second leg, and led to a scintillating display in Germany.

   Once again the whole world was watching Liverpool take on Juventus. This time it was a carnival of football, and what went before the match was friendship, and nothing more sinister. Heysel remains a confusing and complex disaster, surrounded by rumours, hearsay and conflicting stories, where the one clear truth is that a series of unpleasant events combined, leading to unexpected and unintended deaths. The club was dignified in again offering its apologies, as no one deserves to die in the name of football. Thankfully the teams, unlike 20 years ago, were able to concentrate on the match at hand, and the events did not affect what took place on the pitch in the slightest.

   Benitez's detractors are running scared. Everton's double-figure gap is down to just one point in the league, and Rafa "beneath us" might soon be an outdated chant. It's been a difficult first season for the Spaniard, but things are starting to look up 末 and the return to the bench of Xabi Alonso could not have come at a better time. Nor could Djibril Ciss's rehabilitation, which sees him back in full training. The boss needs all the fit players he can get his hands on at the moment, as April will be very testing for the club.

   Against Juventus at Anfield, tempo would be everything. When Rafa's Reds team play quick, incisive passing they look as good as any team Europe 末 they really do. The difference is that the best sides are able to do it consistently, but in fairness that is something Liverpool have done in Europe this season (if not the Premiership), with the exception of two poor performances (away at Olympiakos and Monaco early in the campaign). Over the course of the season in the Champions League, it's hard to believe any team has played better.

   A shame, then, that fatigue set in to Liverpool legs in the second half, after the tough game against Bolton on Saturday, and all the international travelling last week. Juventus had the weekend off due to the death of the Pope, and as such were able to recouperate, and prepare for this game 末 no doubt the reason they were able to get back into the game in the second half. That said, the scoreline was perfectly fair: Juventus having their own clear chances, but Liverpool having twice as many 末 and for once this season the Reds had a little luck, with Del Piero's onside header incorrectly ruled out.

   It all started so positively it was almost surreal. In the first half a young and largely inexperienced Liverpool side did to Juventus what Benitez's Valencia had to Liverpool late in 2002, and absolutely tore through them. (I am being very careful with my words, as most footballing metaphors call on the terminology of war, and destruction, and the scenes at Heysel are all too fresh in the mind after a week of serious contemplation).

   This was a Juve team top of Serie A, who had conceded just two goals in the first eight Champions League games, and one of those a penalty 末 the only goal Read Madrid could manage against them in 180 minutes. Furthermore, only one was conceded with Buffon in goal. As with Bayer Leverkusen, Liverpool made the opposition look distinctly average 末 something no one had done to Leverkusen before in this season's competition, and yet that didn't stop people writing them off as 'substandard'. No one can say Juventus are a substandard or average side.
   
   Luis Garcia gave ample of evidence of why he's so special 末 he never lets his head drop, and keeps trying to do something creative. A few sloppy passes in the early stages didn't make him think twice about hitting a 30-yard half-volley, and after that, he was popping passes about and taking players on. He is in sublime form. When Alonso is back to link with him, we can expect further improvements.

   Sami Hyypia was back to his best, although spanking left-foot volleys are not in his job description. What a finish! It is worth noting that zonal marking 末 which Rafa was castigated for implementing (I know I was far from happy, initially) 末 would have prevented Hyypia's goal, had Juventus used that system. Zebina lost Hyypia, and Sami scored from an area of the pitch where Rafa, if his team were defending, would have had someone stationed.

   Elsewhere, Carragher was his usual brilliant self (how much better can he get?), and Steve Finnan's improvement continues apace, to the point where he is now playing as well as any full-back around. Anthony Le Tallec showed a lot of maturity for a 20-year-old, and no little class on the ball, and yet again Antonio Nunez pulled a superb moment out of the bag, when he bamboozled two Italian defenders on the right wing; his volley against Bolton, on Saturday, being another example of what he was bought for (even if his all-round game is not quite clicking into full gear yet).

   No one let the side down, and even if Liverpool are knocked out in Turin, the promise and the potential is there for all to see. It will be a massive task to go to Turin and avoid defeat, but this Liverpool team has proved it can score goals 末 and it only needs one to negate Canniavaro's goal at the Anfield Road end. While Juventus must now be slight favourites, Rafa has his Reds nicely poised.

ゥ Paul Tomkins

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« Last Edit: April 5, 2005, 11:10:09 PM by Paul Tomkins »

Offline Holiara

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #1 on: April 5, 2005, 11:13:49 PM »
Nice one again Paul  :wave

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #2 on: April 5, 2005, 11:16:08 PM »
Brilliant Paul, you didnt waste a second did you?  :wave

I know Im splitting hairs but Real Madrid with all their wealth of proven attacking talent could only score once in over 210 minutes of football

And I could also tell you that Buffon, that 」32m Italian first choice keeper cost more than the entire Liverpool side tonight (add it up boys n gals)

Had we been able to bring on Hamann or Alonso for that 2nd half when the legs were tiring, I think we wouldve held out.

What we have to do is put this game out of our minds and look to Man City at the weekend, and get those 3 points.

If we keep level next wednesday, I think there could be an upset  ;D
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Offline Guz-kop

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #3 on: April 5, 2005, 11:19:19 PM »
Class as usual Paul  :wave

Just think, add the likes of Alonso, Cisse, Morientes, Kewell perhaps and Pongolle maybe (how useful he wouldve been in the 2nd half!) to that performance and we've got an excellent team in the making.

It's wonderful, it's marvellous, it's 3-3

Offline Jimmy Conway

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #4 on: April 5, 2005, 11:20:37 PM »
The 1st paragraph is spot on Paul.
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Liverpool 2 - Juventus 1

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #5 on: April 5, 2005, 11:22:02 PM »
but anyone who wants to be too harsh on Scott Carson needs to realise that he made an outstanding save in the first half, and at 19, is a total novice in goalkeeping terms 末 the equivalent of a 16-year-old outfield player, in terms of how they develop at different rates, and in different stages.

I'll read the rest later as I have women crowing for me to get into bed... but can we please put to bed this idea that you need to be old to play in goal|? You don't need to be old, it's a bloody myth. He made a great save earlier on and he fucked up later. It's balanced, nothing whatsoever to do with age. He's not the equivalent of a 16 yr old outfielder to put it in baseball terms, he just got the save wrong. A 35 year old can get saves wrong.

When you're a keeper you save it, and he fucked up. He got into a great position to save an effort tonight no bloody doubt but he should have stopped the goal, and he would agree I'm sure. When you're a keeper, you control that box, 'end of', and he fucked up - which happens. Nothing to do with age in my book. He's a good keeper, and he'll have better days, worse days too probably, but they shouldn't have been able to score tonight.

Offline Ian-TN

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #6 on: April 5, 2005, 11:30:16 PM »
Yer right that in the next day or so this result will look great, but at the minute it's fucking gutting that the are dead close to us.

Only one person didn't stick in the effort, and didn't seem to care about the result tonight and that was Baros. He can fuck right off as soon as. Watch the short corner for their goal again, the lazy fucker stands and watches the fella run past him before strolling across to try and block the corner. Shite. Hopefully he will appear ZERO more times in the red shirt. Ta ra Milan!!
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #7 on: April 5, 2005, 11:34:05 PM »
Only one person didn't stick in the effort, and didn't seem to care about the result tonight and that was Baros. He can fuck right off as soon as. Watch the short corner for their goal again, the lazy fucker stands and watches the fella run past him before strolling across to try and block the corner. Shite. Hopefully he will appear ZERO more times in the red shirt. Ta ra Milan!!

And I wonder why I stick around Rawk. Thanks Ian, you've made me want to go to bed.

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #8 on: April 5, 2005, 11:34:07 PM »
It's looking promising alright. :D Our first 35 mins vs Juve were outstanding. This is a massive result. Remember we were without Dudek, Didi, Alonso, Kewell, Cisse and Morientes and we still dominated.

We're beginning to move the ball around the same way Valencia did last season. And that is a very good sign. I feel very optimistic.

          * * * * *


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Offline Ian-TN

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #9 on: April 5, 2005, 11:37:15 PM »
And I wonder why I stick around Rawk. Thanks Ian, you've made me want to go to bed.

No worries lad, happy to help.
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Offline hooded claw

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #10 on: April 5, 2005, 11:38:54 PM »
And I wonder why I stick around Rawk. Thanks Ian, you've made me want to go to bed.

You needed convincing, when you've received the green light from upstairs?  :D

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #11 on: April 5, 2005, 11:40:33 PM »
Excellent. Im confident we can go to turin and get the result we want and go throught the semi finals, but if we dont, we proved that we can hack it against even the toughest oponent also considering how many players we have injured.
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #12 on: April 5, 2005, 11:49:03 PM »
Only one person didn't stick in the effort, and didn't seem to care about the result tonight and that was Baros. He can fuck right off as soon as. Watch the short corner for their goal again, the lazy fucker stands and watches the fella run past him before strolling across to try and block the corner. Shite. Hopefully he will appear ZERO more times in the red shirt. Ta ra Milan!!

Think ure being harsh on him, he looked lively in the first half and created problems. he did fade in the 2nd half (even tho he shoulda been fresh) and ive never seen him really interested in defending (not trying to make excuses or nuthin)

Still need/expect a lot more from him tho,
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Offline Wi5K

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #13 on: April 5, 2005, 11:56:04 PM »
can we please put to bed this idea that you need to be old to play in goal|? You don't need to be old, it's a bloody myth. He made a great save earlier on and he fucked up later. It's balanced, nothing whatsoever to do with age. He's not the equivalent of a 16 yr old outfielder to put it in baseball terms, he just got the save wrong. A 35 year old can get saves wrong.
That's a bizarre point of view. Experience counts for nothing then?

My son is a keeper. When he was 7, the coach saw he had talent but during games he messed up all the time. His teammates would moan and ask why is Carl in goal again? Over the years he's improved to the point where he is man of the match almost every week. Now his team rely on him. He's got no more talent in catching the ball than before, but now with 7 years of match experience he has learned positioning, what movement to look for in opposition strikers, how to deal with uneven ground, etc. You don't stop learning those things when you're 18! In fact, for Carson it's a whole new level to learn about. Last year he was playing against Wigan and Gillingham and now he's expected to play perfectly against a top ten European team.

Okay, the mistake he made was simple and he may make the same mistake again when aged 35 as you say. But next time he's falling and the ball is going over him, he may just stand up that little bit longer or push it away that little bit harder because he's learned from what happened tonight.

Offline Ian-TN

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #14 on: April 6, 2005, 12:01:38 AM »
Think ure being harsh on him, he looked lively in the first half and created problems. he did fade in the 2nd half (even tho he shoulda been fresh) and ive never seen him really interested in defending (not trying to make excuses or nuthin)

Still need/expect a lot more from him tho,

Nothin to do with an interest to defend, it's all about desire to block a cross which could cause us trouble. He was fairly lively first half but still a tit. How many times did he have the ball in the corner? How many times did he win corners or throw ins? None cos he always tried to run through the defender. No where near good enough, far to busy doin what Milan wants not what Liverpool needs, and am fed up with it.

Perhaps it wasn't that abd a performance tonight, perhaps, but it was the build up of weeks an weeks to selfishness that isn't good enough.
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #15 on: April 6, 2005, 12:02:45 AM »
first of all i want to say thankyou... i was feeling a sick sensation after the game- all through the second half as well. it was all because of the goal we let in.

reading this post puts it into perspective- WE ALL WOULD HAVE SETTLED FOR 2-1 AT THE START.

so i'm settling for it now  :) COME ON YOU FUCKING REDS! DO IT AGAIN A WEEK TOMORROW!

Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #16 on: April 6, 2005, 12:13:31 AM »
Nothin to do with an interest to defend, it's all about desire to block a cross which could cause us trouble. He was fairly lively first half but still a tit. How many times did he have the ball in the corner? How many times did he win corners or throw ins? None cos he always tried to run through the defender. No where near good enough, far to busy doin what Milan wants not what Liverpool needs, and am fed up with it.

Perhaps it wasn't that abd a performance tonight, perhaps, but it was the build up of weeks an weeks to selfishness that isn't good enough.

He did win us a couple of corners. Thought he had a good game. And I like it that he tries to go past his defenders. He also tried to play the ball to ALT when in this wide position, so he's not always thinking about himself.

One thing I wish for though is that he tries to stay more central when he's our main man.

          * * * * *


"The key isn't the system itself, but how the players adapt on the pitch. It doesn't matter if it's 4-3-3 or 4-4-2, it's the role of the players that counts." Rafa Benitez

Offline Ian-TN

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #17 on: April 6, 2005, 12:31:12 AM »
Mate, that ain't good enough. He never looks like he is thinking about what is going on. He just reacts to things. In that situation it would take a great piece of skill to get past that class of defender, not a beaut who's only trick is push it past yer an try an barge yer out the way.

Any decent striker, an we'd have won by at least 2 tonight.

No way is he good enough to be a starting striker at this club, and his ego won't allow him to be anything other than that. He seems to think he's a great player when he's plain average.
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #18 on: April 6, 2005, 12:49:30 AM »
There are a good many similarities between this tie and the previous round against Leverkusen; we gave up an away goal which meant that we felt a bit deflated after the final whistle, while Juve were pumped up, we absolutely battered them from the kick-off, etc.

Of course, Juve is simply a better side compared to Leverkusen, and only need to score one goal rather than the two Leverkusen needed to get a result in the home leg.  So it looks like a much tougher prospect to qualify for the semis.

But, you know, what the hell...

We've done a good job in the Champions League in general at getting the necessary result, and needing to get that goal at home will play with the Juventus players' minds.   On the other hand, we are a patchwork side whom no one, except our loyal die-hard supporters, thought would get this far or be able to get a result against Juventus at home.

The pressure will be on Juventus in the second leg.  I'm backing El Jefe to figure out ways to increase that pressure on Juventus, and put us in position to nick that precious away goal.

A good performance on the night, with every possibility of another in Turin in eight days time.

I was pleased to see Rafa toss Carson off the deep end, and though he made a bad mistake on the Juventus goal, excepting that moment, he played well and bravely.  The only quality Carson lacks in experience.  Hope Rafa plays him on Saturday against City and every other match in the PL.

All those who were moaning about how we had it easy in the Champions League because we had a relatively weak first round group and a relatively weak round of 16 opponent in Leverkusen have nothing to say tonight; that's one victory against as good a side left in the competition.

And we have a good chance to qualify for the semis next Wednesday...
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #19 on: April 6, 2005, 01:01:09 AM »
I was pleased to see Rafa toss Carson off the deep end

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Does the coverage over there really show you that stuff?  :o

Offline Classycara

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #20 on: April 6, 2005, 01:11:13 AM »
I was pleased to see Rafa toss Carson off the deep end

sorry i couldn't resist ;)

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #21 on: April 6, 2005, 01:35:42 AM »
sigh. one of those games. but after two hours of sleep only the result 2-1 stands out  ;D

Bravo to the lads, we completely outplayed them in the first but in the second half always felt their goal would come with their hounding and pressure.

If Carson is to be blamed then blame Rafa who made the decision to let a 19-year old goalkeeper debut in CL against a ten 10 world side in one of the highest profile games this season. However, Carson did make a great save and some nice ones too, and Rafa's tactics has been spot on (once again) except for the tired legs. And I do like his habit of throwing in the young kids. It shows guts AND great confidence and can reap for us in the long run.

And - three wins in a row. Now I really feel good!    ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: April 6, 2005, 01:39:19 AM by mercury »

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #22 on: April 6, 2005, 01:48:21 AM »
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Does the coverage over there really show you that stuff? :o

sorry i couldn't resist ;)

i am, of course, supposed to infer some sort of reference to "tossing off," yes?

no, no, i didn't say i was pleased to see Rafa spanking Carson's monkey...

you mean you lot don't teach kids to swim by chucking them into the water and yelling "Swim?"

and people wonder why the British Empire collapsed... :wave

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #23 on: April 6, 2005, 01:51:30 AM »
Another good one Paul, as always.

Carson is like, 19, and making his European debut, in arguably the biggest game of his career to date? That was what I told my colleagues when they asked me about Cannavaro's goal in the second half.

Come on, support him fully, for he wears the Liverbird on his chest, for goodness sake! If he plays without interest, makes mistakes like a worker drinks coffee in the morning, then you'd have much to berate about him, but give him a chance eh? Anybody still sore about Dudek's mistake vs Leverkusen? I think not.

As for Real and the 210 minute-a-goal comment, they lack what Liverpool have - the passion as well as the hunger to savour the moment. Real had been there like... every season? While Liverpool would have to slug it out to even qualify, each moment is precious.

Our adventure may or may not come to and end in Turin, but savour the moment. I would have taken a draw at the start, seeing that we are playing one of the finest team in Europe but a win?? Heck, 2 - 1 is good enough for me!

Think of Ferguson's face when he hears about it on the telly.
Or the pressure on Jose and Chelsea to live up to their billing as one of the favourites.

We were underdogs, written off whilethe press concentrated on the Old Trafford outfit and the two London team's exploit. Leverkusen fell, now Juventus is next on the slay-list. Without a 100% full strength squad to boot.

"We will never be underestimated again", said Rafa.

Well in lads.
Put on another herculean effort at Turin and it will be a very Red future indeed.
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #24 on: April 6, 2005, 01:57:27 AM »
Nothin to do with an interest to defend, it's all about desire to block a cross which could cause us trouble. He was fairly lively first half but still a tit. How many times did he have the ball in the corner? How many times did he win corners or throw ins? None cos he always tried to run through the defender. No where near good enough, far to busy doin what Milan wants not what Liverpool needs, and am fed up with it.

Perhaps it wasn't that abd a performance tonight, perhaps, but it was the build up of weeks an weeks to selfishness that isn't good enough.

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #25 on: April 6, 2005, 03:17:29 AM »
Only one person didn't stick in the effort, and didn't seem to care about the result tonight and that was Baros.

Baros was immense until he came off. Worked his bollocks off.
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #26 on: April 6, 2005, 03:56:25 AM »
We've just won a massive game and some people still can't resist to bitch about some certain players. WTF is that? Let it sink in, enjoy the friggin' win and analyze the rest later.

They should create another category for "fans" besides supporters -- bitchers.

Offline mercury

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #27 on: April 6, 2005, 04:31:50 AM »
They should create another category for "fans" besides supporters -- bitchers.

 :lmao :lmao :lmao

By the way I thought Baros looked sharp and as usual worked hard but then Juventus in teh second half got him in the pocket. 

Also forgot to mention:  great piece, Paul  ;D

Offline jfpower

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #28 on: April 6, 2005, 06:45:45 AM »
Good article (as always).

I admit to being deflated when Juve scored, but it really was a great first half performance against a vey formidanle team. How many teams have scored twice against Juve this season?

We've just won a massive game and some people still can't resist to bitch about some certain players. WTF is that? Let it sink in, enjoy the friggin' win and analyze the rest later.

They should create another category for "fans" besides supporters -- bitchers.

Too true! Nobody let themselves down last night. Carson admits he was responsible for the goal, but he made a stunning save at 1 - 0. Baros created problems for the Juve back four.

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #29 on: April 6, 2005, 08:07:11 AM »
That said, the scoreline was perfectly fair: Juventus having their own clear chances, but Liverpool having twice as many 末 and for once this season the Reds had a little luck, with Del Piero's onside header incorrectly ruled out.

from another article we have ...
By the interval, Alessandro del Piero had seen a headed goal wrongly disallowed for offside, as well as an eagerly struck attempt after a slick exchange with Nedved wonderfully tipped aside by Carson. -- http://football.guardian.co.uk/Match_Report/0,1527,1453077,00.html --


what all of the people who mention this was that by the time the header was scored... the whistle had gone and the keeper was no longer interested in what happens to the ball. I thought at least people reporting about this will bring out that point... But all seem to be more concerned that the ball was in the net and therefore should have been allowed to stand... which is a completely wrong assertion to make. PT, you are the only person who writes sense all the time... and i thought you would at least raise this point (in case you decides to write about it that off side, which i agree was not an offside).
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #30 on: April 6, 2005, 08:10:05 AM »
Yer right that in the next day or so this result will look great, but at the minute it's fucking gutting that the are dead close to us.

Only one person didn't stick in the effort, and didn't seem to care about the result tonight and that was Baros. He can fuck right off as soon as. Watch the short corner for their goal again, the lazy fucker stands and watches the fella run past him before strolling across to try and block the corner. Shite. Hopefully he will appear ZERO more times in the red shirt. Ta ra Milan!!

I noticed that as it happened at the game and screamed at the bastard to move. Baros, for me, only ever thinks of Baros.

If we had had someone like Morientes to bring on in the second half to lead the line and hold the ball up we would have been OK.

Still, bent referees aside, I think we'll get through. Let's hope Alonso and Hamann are fit for next week.
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #31 on: April 6, 2005, 08:11:46 AM »
Baros was immense until he came off. Worked his bollocks off.

Maybe he was head down, looking for them again. Still, he can't play saturday so should be raring to go in Turin. Two goals for Milan?  :wave
Then out spake brave Horatius, The Captain of the Gate; "To every man upon this earth Death cometh soon or late. And how can man die better Than facing fearful odds, For the  ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his gods. " FENWAY - Do not let us down! RAWK is boss lid

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #32 on: April 6, 2005, 08:52:05 AM »
what all of the people who mention this was that by the time the header was scored... the whistle had gone and the keeper was no longer interested in what happens to the ball. I thought at least people reporting about this will bring out that point... But all seem to be more concerned that the ball was in the net and therefore should have been allowed to stand... which is a completely wrong assertion to make. PT, you are the only person who writes sense all the time... and i thought you would at least raise this point (in case you decides to write about it that off side, which i agree was not an offside).


I looked like a perfectly looped header that Carson couldn't get to even if he'd wanted to. It happened so fast that if Del Piero hadn't heard the whistle, I'm not sure Carson would have either. Yes, offside goals when everyone knows it won't count are meaningless, but in this case I felt it was split-second stuff.

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #33 on: April 6, 2005, 09:05:36 AM »
I'll read the rest later as I have women crowing for me to get into bed... but can we please put to bed this idea that you need to be old to play in goal|? You don't need to be old, it's a bloody myth. He made a great save earlier on and he fucked up later. It's balanced, nothing whatsoever to do with age. He's not the equivalent of a 16 yr old outfielder to put it in baseball terms, he just got the save wrong. A 35 year old can get saves wrong.

When you're a keeper you save it, and he fucked up. He got into a great position to save an effort tonight no bloody doubt but he should have stopped the goal, and he would agree I'm sure. When you're a keeper, you control that box, 'end of', and he fucked up - which happens. Nothing to do with age in my book. He's a good keeper, and he'll have better days, worse days too probably, but they shouldn't have been able to score tonight.


The thing is, a 35-year-old will not be playing in the biggest game of his life, and will have 15 years of experience to draw from. Young keepers can make special saves just like older ones - of course they can.

But they are raw, inexperienced, and not used to the big occasion. Carson made some cracking saves, and his handling and kicking was faultless - just one bad error. It may prove costly, but whereas someone like Dudek, when he makes errors, should "know" better, Carson still has to learn from his mistakes.

I just don't want to see a very young keeper castigated.

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #34 on: April 6, 2005, 09:12:53 AM »
Yer right that in the next day or so this result will look great, but at the minute it's fucking gutting that the are dead close to us.

Only one person didn't stick in the effort, and didn't seem to care about the result tonight and that was Baros. He can fuck right off as soon as. Watch the short corner for their goal again, the lazy fucker stands and watches the fella run past him before strolling across to try and block the corner. Shite. Hopefully he will appear ZERO more times in the red shirt. Ta ra Milan!!

You're right.  I can't believe Rafa didn't throw on one of our other top class strikers, or even play Gerrard up there, 'cos that came off against 'boro didn't it?

What's that?  We had not other top class strikers on the bench? 

You're slating Baros 'cos he failed to block a corner?  He ran his socks off first half, and was inches away from connecting with a cross to score.  When all said and done the cross didn't result in the goal - a goalkeeping mistake did.

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #35 on: April 6, 2005, 10:10:46 AM »

I looked like a perfectly looped header that Carson couldn't get to even if he'd wanted to. It happened so fast that if Del Piero hadn't heard the whistle, I'm not sure Carson would have either. Yes, offside goals when everyone knows it won't count are meaningless, but in this case I felt it was split-second stuff.


Funny.

In the ground every one seened to know that offside had been blown long before the ball hit the net.

There was certainly no reaction of relief when it was disallowed, as most knew it wasn't counting anyway.
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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #36 on: April 6, 2005, 10:20:35 AM »
I just don't want to see a very young keeper castigated.

agreed. Read the whole thing now and with you on all counts Paul.

This morning the 2-1 feels so much better than it did last night, although seeing the chair I ripped after Garcia's goal by jumping up and down on it in celebration made me groan a bit.

I'm not sure that age would have helped Carson tho, being more nimble than us codgers in our early 30's an all that - it's just that keepers mistakes glare. It was a shame as he deserved to have a great write-up this morning.

p.s.. on write-ups. You worked for the Guardian for a bit Paul, can you explain to me Dominic Fifield's new eyesight problem? Today he said that Gerrard dished out a crunching tackle to Emerson in the first few seconds which gave Baros an early chance, and after Bolton, he suggested that Traore delived a killer corner onto Biscan's head. Weird.

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #37 on: April 6, 2005, 11:33:02 AM »
In the ground every one seened to know that offside had been blown long before the ball hit the net.

There was certainly no reaction of relief when it was disallowed, as most knew it wasn't counting anyway.


Fair point, and the whistle was clearly heard straight after Del Piero headed the ball - my point is that it wasn't one of those where the whistle goes, and the striker takes the ball on and rams it into the net. It looked like such a good header that any keeper would have been beaten, and given little chance to react. Either way, it was a stroke of luck.


p.s.. on write-ups. You worked for the Guardian for a bit Paul, can you explain to me Dominic Fifield's new eyesight problem? Today he said that Gerrard dished out a crunching tackle to Emerson in the first few seconds which gave Baros an early chance, and after Bolton, he suggested that Traore delived a killer corner onto Biscan's head. Weird.


I still like his work, but sometimes things merge into one and other at a game, and they have to write their reports without the benefit of seeing things again, and also file it within an hour of the final whistle, in the case of midweek games.

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #38 on: April 6, 2005, 11:47:40 AM »
I still like his work, but sometimes things merge into one and other at a game, and they have to write their reports without the benefit of seeing things again, and also file it within an hour of the final whistle, in the case of midweek games.

So do I, and true about writing of reports etc, but I can be at a game half bladdered, skinning up behind a 6'6" monster and I'd be able to differentiate between a slip and this beaut:

"Liverpool's captain is irrepressible when the mood takes him on nights such as these. His crunching challenge upon Emerson in the opening seconds, leaving the Brazilian breathless on the turf, set a tone which had Juventus tquaking." ;D

we digress...

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Re: Liverpool 2 Juventus 1: A Sign Of Things To Come
« Reply #39 on: April 6, 2005, 11:51:30 AM »
So do I, and true about writing of reports etc, but I can be at a game half bladdered, skinning up behind a 6'6" monster and I'd be able to differentiate between a slip and this beaut:

"Liverpool's captain is irrepressible when the mood takes him on nights such as these. His crunching challenge upon Emerson in the opening seconds, leaving the Brazilian breathless on the turf, set a tone which had Juventus tquaking." ;D


t'quaking?!

Yup, if memory serves, Emerton slipped and fell on his arse! ;D