Topic: Team Analysis: Jürgen Klopp’s Liverpool Tactics (*)

[Goalposts for Jumpers]

No obviously you don't, that's a given. However, because Pogba isn't as good here as in he was in Italy, we should just completely avoid any players from said league? Is this the same league that is so superior physically in where Salah is scoring more goals than he did in Italy the last 3 seasons he spent there?

We don't know until the player comes here and plays. But you can't just use Pogba and say well they may not play well here. THere is no other league outside of England that compares in intensity and physicality so in essence you can say the same thing for any player that is coming from a different league.

I think a few people in here are not paying enough attention to what the players actually do on the pitch, whether it is likely they'll be able to replicate it in the PL and whether their skill set would suit the role they are likely to be asked to perform under Klopp. Anyone who's seen a decent amount of Jorginho would realise he'll be able to translate what he does in any league in the world. He's absolute quality.

Fekir, i'm just not convinced. Part of me thinks he's a genius, but there's a nagging doubt. He certainly wouldn't be able to cover for Firmino, I just don't think his skill set would make good cover for Bobby at all. He's too slow to do Salah's role and he doesn't play that way either. I also don't see him in the midfield 3. He could cover Mane's role, which, in turn would allow Mane to cover Salah's role, which he did in his first season here. Or we can adapt our system to play him in a 10, which I can't see happening. It's a bit like Mahrez, a quality player, but I just don't see how he fits in.

[afc tukrish]

He's too slow to do Salah's role...

No one else has the combination of Salah's pace, low center of gravity, and huge arse...

Kenny has two of those and isn't doing anything, maybe we should sign him? 

[clinical]

I think a few people in here are not paying enough attention to what the players actually do on the pitch, whether it is likely they'll be able to replicate it in the PL and whether their skill set would suit the role they are likely to be asked to perform under Klopp. Anyone who's seen a decent amount of Jorginho would realise he'll be able to translate what he does in any league in the world. He's absolute quality.

Fekir, i'm just not convinced. Part of me thinks he's a genius, but there's a nagging doubt. He certainly wouldn't be able to cover for Firmino, I just don't think his skill set would make good cover for Bobby at all. He's too slow to do Salah's role and he doesn't play that way either. I also don't see him in the midfield 3. He could cover Mane's role, which, in turn would allow Mane to cover Salah's role, which he did in his first season here. Or we can adapt our system to play him in a 10, which I can't see happening. It's a bit like Mahrez, a quality player, but I just don't see how he fits in.

Why don't you think he couldn't play the bobby role? He has attributes just like Firmino in some ways.

Also he's may not be rapid but he's faster than Coutinho and he did alright here. Also Firmino isn't exactly rapid.

I think he would be excellent cover for any of them. But like I said I think it will be Pulisic at least to begin with. Just can't see Dortmund selling for a fair price after losing Dembele and Aubameyang.

[Djozer]

Is this now the "talking about transfers we'd like" thread? Sick. Only seen a few highlights of Fekir, but he looks brilliant, and his statistics look great too. Not sure where he fits, exactly - not a like for like for any of our front three positions or one of the CM roles, but he looks like he should be good enough to adapt. I'm still not sure if we can get another top, top quality player as a rotation option (as I think the front three are pretty much nailed on, and rightly so) but if someone of Fekir's quality is prepared to come in and spend a fair bit of time on the bench then I'm all for it. Have there been any links to him at all though?

Pulisic or Lemar seem slightly more reasonable, being more versatile, younger and maybe not expecting to start straight away, but they'd probably cost stupid amounts for rotation options. Think someone who can do almost what Mane and Salah to provide better cover for them would be ideal, better still if they can also play CM. Not sure if he can do the latter, but Leon Bailey would be my choice, if possible. He's already brilliant and it's scary to think how good he could become. That said, even though he's just 20 he may already be at the stage where he'd expect to be a starter. Think several teams will be after him this summer too, so the price will be obscene.

[Gnurglan]

We also don't have the budget to be buying true world class attackers - of which there are very few out there, in any case. The next level down, however, is very achievable. That's Fekir.

Tactically, Klopp doesn't ever seem to have played a true #10. He has had players in that field position, but they weren't playmakers - they were second strikers. Right now, we have that. People get too bogged down in formations and think that where a player's starting position is on the field defines their role. That is true, in general. But it's not always true. If people want to have a picture of how our attack works, the closest thing we can look to is the Arsenal early 2000's side, with Henry as the #9 and Bergkamp as the #10. Neither of them actually played in the areas you would expect from the shirt position - Henry started from the left wing and moved central, while Bergkamp was often where the #9 should be, but dropped off a bit.

In Klopp's system with us, Salah is the #9, but starts from the right wing moving central, while Firmino operates in the #9 area of the field, but plays as a #10/second striker. So our "#10" for all intents and purposes is Firmino. Whoever plays right central midfield, then, ends up being our actual right winger (Lallana or Ox when they play), and we have the #6 controller (Henderson or Can) and the #8 link player (Can or Gini). People will say we play with two #8's, and that wouldn't be an untrue thing to say if you look at it on paper, but the tasks/roles and movements actually show us playing a lopsided 4-4-1-1 formation most of the time, with Mane playing almost left mid to balance out the right:



In other words, formations are a red herring

And when we're linked with players, it's better to look at us from a 4-4-1-1 position than it is to look at us from a 4-3-3, which is how we're written down on paper.

Interesting comparison. Arsenal had Ljungberg and Pires down the wings in that side. I can't recall their other options, but it was a really good front four.

In that formation, I reckon Mane is the one who suffers. I wonder if he couldn't be Salah's main ’backup’ for that Henry role, decreasing the need for another striker. The problem is of course that Mane is a starter and we are short of options behind him. I guess we could use Lallana, AOC or even Wijnaldum if we think of his Newcastle days, so the wing options could be there. However, we are highly dependent on Firmino. I see no other player who can fill his role in the current side. Maybe that's the wrong approach though. We are not likely to find a copy of him, but it leads me to this:

How do we line up if we exclude Firmino? What is our best option with the current players?

[Kashinoda]

Throwaway stat from Reddit but worth pasting.

Liverpool since losing to Spurs in October in PL 19 Games 13W 5D 1L. Scored 51(more than City) and conceded just 16(Only Chelsea and United conceded less). Our defence is not shit anymore and we are not inconsistent.

[Dr. Beaker]

Throwaway stat from Reddit but worth pasting.

Liverpool since losing to Spurs in October in PL 19 Games 13W 5D 1L. Scored 51(more than City) and conceded just 16(Only Chelsea and United conceded less). Our defence is not shit anymore and we are not inconsistent.

I was thinking of starting a 'Liverpool are not shit anymore' thread, but it's too confusing to figure out what to write.

[Kashinoda]

I was thinking of starting a 'Liverpool are not shit anymore' thread, but it's too confusing to figure out what to write.

If you ever grasp how to tackle such a thread, here's some more facts from Reddit. 

Liverpool have scored 3+ goals in exactly 50% of games this season. Games played = 40, games scored 3+ goals = 20 (9 home, 11 away)

Interestingly, it's also 50% if you limit it to league games (14 games with 3+ goals out of a total of 28).

Last season's overall total: 30%. Last season's league total: 32%.

If we keep this going until the end of the season, it'll be only the 4th season in all of Liverpool history where we've scored 3+ goals in 50% of league games. The previous 3:

1895-96: 67% of league games
2013-14: 55% of league games
1893-94: 50% of league games

[rscanderlech]

If you ever grasp how to tackle such a thread, here's some more facts from Reddit. 

Liverpool have scored 3+ goals in exactly 50% of games this season. Games played = 40, games scored 3+ goals = 20 (9 home, 11 away)

Interestingly, it's also 50% if you limit it to league games (14 games with 3+ goals out of a total of 28).

Last season's overall total: 30%. Last season's league total: 32%.

If we keep this going until the end of the season, it'll be only the 4th season in all of Liverpool history where we've scored 3+ goals in 50% of league games. The previous 3:

1895-96: 67% of league games
2013-14: 55% of league games
1893-94: 50% of league games

Did the offside rule exist in 1895-96?

[PhaseOfPlay]

Did the offside rule exist in 1895-96?

Yes. And it was harsher than it is now - you needed three defenders between you and the goal line to stay onside. Which is why teams could play with only 2 defenders and 5 forwards

[Dr. Beaker]

Did the offside rule exist in 1895-96?

At the time, the most advanced forward had a man ahead of him with a red flag. If the forward was deemed to be unsportingly close the opposition's goal, a carrier pigeon was immediately dispatched to the FA. It was only after huge developments in whistle technology that the offside rule was initially trialled - earlier whistles were of a cast iron construction and needed to be operated by steam powered industrial bellows.

[PhaseOfPlay]

At the time, the most advanced forward had a man ahead of him with a red flag. If the forward was deemed to be unsportingly close the opposition's goal, a carrier pigeon was immediately dispatched to the FA. It was only after huge developments in whistle technology that the offside rule was initially trialled - earlier whistles were of a cast iron construction and needed to be operated by steam powered industrial bellows.

[Gutzon Borglum]

If we go with PoP's diagram, I'd say we need someone who can cover both Ox and Manè's positions, as Manè can cover Salah's and Salah can cover Firmino's. Lemar was obviously that guy, and now thay we've moved on the loudest shout seems to be Pulisic.

Firmino has an amazing fitness record, so I can see why we don't feel it to be of as urgent concern to back him up.

The obvious other upgrades are at #6, GK and CB. Jorginho and Alisson are both boss so I'd be ecstatic with them. As for CB, that seems to be the laat priority, and rightly so aa I think that has become our strongest weakness as we have alot of competition to partner VVD, although these shouts that Alderweireld wants out of Spurs gets my pick rather firm at the prospect of bringing him in.. Our defense would be on another level with his quality beside Virgil.

How exciting is it to be a Liverpool fan with Jurgen fucking Klopp in charge!

[penga]

If we go with PoP's diagram, I'd say we need someone who can cover both Ox and Manè's positions, as Manè can cover Salah's and Salah can cover Firmino's. Lemar was obviously that guy, and now thay we've moved on the loudest shout seems to be Pulisic.

Firmino has an amazing fitness record, so I can see why we don't feel it to be of as urgent concern to back him up.

The obvious other upgrades are at #6, GK and CB. Jorginho and Alisson are both boss so I'd be ecstatic with them. As for CB, that seems to be the laat priority, and rightly so aa I think that has become our strongest weakness as we have alot of competition to partner VVD, although these shouts that Alderweireld wants out of Spurs gets my pick rather firm at the prospect of bringing him in.. Our defense would be on another level with his quality beside Virgil.

How exciting is it to be a Liverpool fan with Jürgen fucking Klopp in charge!

Pulisic and Lemar will cost a lot. Should go for someone slighltly more under the radar Felipe Anderson can fill the Mane/Ox role perfectly with the same pace but more dribbling ability.

[Barefoot Doctor]

The obvious other upgrades are at #6, GK and CB. Jorginho and Alisson are both boss so I'd be ecstatic with them. As for CB, that seems to be the laat priority, and rightly so aa I think that has become our strongest weakness as we have alot of competition to partner VVD, although these shouts that Alderweireld wants out of Spurs gets my pick rather firm at the prospect of bringing him in.. Our defense would be on another level with his quality beside Virgil.

I'm really curious about what we do at CB. Quotes today from Klopp saying that Gomez will eventually transition to CB, but didn't put a timeline on it. If it was from next season (and that makes sense if Clyne and TAA are used at RB) then it might negate the need for a signing there.

After Van Dijk signed, Mel Reddy said we were still looking to strengthen there. She mentioned Manuel Akanji (since moved to Dortmund), Aymeric Laporte (now at City) and Jose Gimenez as players we were looking at. Interestingly, they're all 22/23 - that suggests to me that Klopp is looking for a certain age profile in his CB signing. Someone with decent experience, but not yet coming into their peak. It's why I don't think we'll go for Alderweireld or De Vrij, even though the latter is on a free.

And if we do sign someone like Gimenez (or equivalent) it throws up some interesting questions on our other CBs. Who stays and who would go? You'd have a pool of Van Dijk, Gimenez, Matip, Lovren, Klavan and potentially Gomez. I like the idea of just losing Klavan and having a really strong four with Gomez learning his trade. But realistically, it's hard to do that and keep people happy, especially when only three CBs usually make the squad. So if we did brought someone in, I'd expect Matip or Lovren to be sold. Then we'd have Van Dijk, Matip/Lovren, Gimenez (or equivalent) and Gomez. Would be happy with that.

[DanA]

I think we’ve got a good mix and across the field and don’t see a need for a CB. I think in order of need it’s:
1. GK
2. No.6
3. Wide player
4. No.9

That’s all I’d hope we look at adding. And if Henderson was 100% fit then the GK is the only nailed on starter we need. And that assumes Karius doesn’t convince Klopp he’s the man for the job.

I do think the drop off from Firmino/Salah/Mane is too big though. Outside our front three I’m not too worried about rotation options.

[harleydanger]

Pulisic and Lemar will cost a lot. Should go for someone slighltly more under the radar Felipe Anderson can fill the Mane/Ox role perfectly with the same pace but more dribbling ability.

It should be well within our budget to go for three players off the top shelf and afford them all. Jorginho, Pulsic, Alison.

IMO, we’re entitled to pay over the odds this summer to make sure we get everything in place, and in fact it would be prudent.

[clinical]

I'm really curious about what we do at CB. Quotes today from Klopp saying that Gomez will eventually transition to CB, but didn't put a timeline on it. If it was from next season (and that makes sense if Clyne and TAA are used at RB) then it might negate the need for a signing there.

After Van Dijk signed, Mel Reddy said we were still looking to strengthen there. She mentioned Manuel Akanji (since moved to Dortmund), Aymeric Laporte (now at City) and Jose Gimenez as players we were looking at. Interestingly, they're all 22/23 - that suggests to me that Klopp is looking for a certain age profile in his CB signing. Someone with decent experience, but not yet coming into their peak. It's why I don't think we'll go for Alderweireld or De Vrij, even though the latter is on a free.

And if we do sign someone like Gimenez (or equivalent) it throws up some interesting questions on our other CBs. Who stays and who would go? You'd have a pool of Van Dijk, Gimenez, Matip, Lovren, Klavan and potentially Gomez. I like the idea of just losing Klavan and having a really strong four with Gomez learning his trade. But realistically, it's hard to do that and keep people happy, especially when only three CBs usually make the squad. So if we did brought someone in, I'd expect Matip or Lovren to be sold. Then we'd have Van Dijk, Matip/Lovren, Gimenez (or equivalent) and Gomez. Would be happy with that.

I really don't think we'll sign another cb this summer. Think Klavan will stay one more year as back up with Gomez playing both rb and cb next year in a few matches.

As you say to get another top one in would mean the end of Matip or Lovren. Both I'm not fully convinced by but whilst Lovren has shockers neither are bad. Probably would be looking at atleast £30m for a cb who would be an upgrade on them in this market and think Klopp will see better use of that money elsewhere.

Although De Vrij on a free could in interesting. Is he better than Matip/Lovren? From the little I've seen possibly, but hard to tell as the pace in their league is different.

[CraigDS]

It should be well within our budget to go for three players off the top shelf and afford them all. Jorginho, Pulsic, Alison.

IMO, we’re entitled to pay over the odds this summer to make sure we get everything in place, and in fact it would be prudent.

You're possibly talking £200m there. On top of VVD in Jan and the Keita deal. Would be a hell of an outlay.

[clinical]

You're possibly talking £200m there. On top of VVD in Jan and the Keita deal. Would be a hell of an outlay.

Origi, Sturridge, Markovic and Mignolet should bring some more money in.

Can't help but think there may be a shock departure as well like Lallana, although I hope not. 


Either way Alisson, Jorginho and coutinho replacement such as Pulisic should hopefully be realistic although I don't think we'll get Pulisic, as too expensive for a 19 year old who's in and out of form. 

[harleydanger]

You're possibly talking £200m there. On top of VVD in Jan and the Keita deal. Would be a hell of an outlay.

Kieth and VVD were last seasons purchases, even if they’re coming/have come this year

And I think 200m is a pretty strong but achievable outlay

[CraigDS]

Kieth and VVD were last seasons purchases, even if they’re coming/have come this year

And I think 200m is a pretty strong but achievable outlay

You can't really look at purchases as 'this season and last', it's not really how finances work.

The money may be there, we don't really know given the finances we do know are a long way out of date and a fair bit has changed since. We could maybe afford it, Clinical is right that we'd have some sales which could help fund some of it too, but either way £200m+ is a big outlay regardless.

[harleydanger]

We also just had 140m odd come in.

I’m just saying a 200+ window, with our sales this year, isn’t that ridiculous.

[clinical]

We also just had 140m odd come in.

I’m just saying a 200+ window, with our sales this year, isn’t that ridiculous.

If the reports are true about Keita will cost more depending where Leipzig finish (I find this hard to believe we'd pay more if they finish top 4) but IF it is true and not what the local journos say then Keita could be £60m+

At the minute they are 6th so long may that continue, but say worst case £60m.

You could be looking at at least £250m! for Keita, Alisson, Jorginho and Pulisic. I really doubt we can afford that even with Coutinho money and selling the players I mentioned. That would be a net spend of upwards of £75m in one summer. I can't see it so either we go for a cheaper option than Pulisic, or we don't pay what Roma want for Alisson (which seems to be the case). Luckily I don't think wage spend will increase too much IF we did get them. Pulisic won't be on much at all and can't see the other 3 being on top dollar. Sturridge, Mignolet earn a considerable amount with Can, Markovic and Origi off the books too. But still £75m net, can't see it unfortunately.


And for the record i'd prioritise Alisson and Jorginho over Pulisic and get a cheaper player there. No way he's worth what Dortmund would ask. 

[harleydanger]

We were buying Ox, VVD and Keith last summer, and that was before the Coutinho cash. So that gives you an indication of the money available.

I'd be expecting a big summer, i don't think it's going to be a 50m net kind of window. If you think different, cool, i don't think arguing will change anything.

But imo the club has a rare chance to put together a first XI as good as anything in the country this window, and i think and hope the club will see that as well

[clinical]

We were buying Ox, VVD and Keith last summer, and that was before the Coutinho cash. So that gives you an indication of the money available.

I'd be expecting a big summer, i don't think it's going to be a 50m net kind of window. If you think different, cool, i don't think arguing will change anything.

But imo the club has a rare chance to put together a first XI as good as anything in the country this window, and i think and hope the club will see that as well

I see what you are saying. But we have never spent £50m net in a single window I don't believe. There's always a first I suppose. Just see how it goes, I agree we have a real big chance to push on if we get top 4 and 3 top players along with Keita would 100% make us title challengers.

[lionel_messias]

I see what you are saying. But we have never spent £50m net in a single window I don't believe. There's always a first I suppose. Just see how it goes, I agree we have a real big chance to push on if we get top 4 and 3 top players along with Keita would 100% make us title challengers.

I really believe the money is there, as it was for VVD and Keita.

If we're talking tactics and priorities, what do we see as the key areas to improve, the must haves?

---Goalkeeper is interesting. I'd say break the bank for Alisson Becker, if you're not going to get a better Keeper this generation.
(Klopp says "Hmmmm but what if Karius is good enough?)

Number 6----Get Jorginho, or Wanyama, SMS is not a 6 but looks a great fit - make that area really strong, better than Spurs, competing with Man City

CB - Klopp may leave it, however Stevan DeVrij is a FREE transfer and is Dutchman to speak with VVD. Brainer, nill.

Wide forward ---Surely Klopp goes in BIG for one player at Dortmund while he's with us, surely would be the American boy. FSG will see pound signs.

Perhaps the biggest signing? Mo Salah on the 200k a week plus scoring bonuses

Keita is potential game-changer too

[Carra-ton]

I just don't think spending 100million on Pulisic is valuable and gets us nowhere near a complete player for next season. 100million should get you a Lemar and he is at a higher development stage.
We need a quality fourth to our front three, maybe in rotation or maybe competing with them directly. We also need another good midfielder. I would say, forget Alisson, spend the money up top.
Two aspects which Klopp loves is someone who can dribble with speed and has good game intelligence, if he has excellent passing on top of that , it is a bonus. I can't think of many who can improve what we have here.
Keeping our players is our biggest challenge, bigger than getting a Pulisic or Lemar. If we keep the front three as is next season, we will have won half the transfer battle.

Coming to midfield, Keita, Jorginho and Ox/Lallana for example would be a grand midfield in a Klopp system. I think we don't need a lot for next season, and just getting Jorginho and a Lemar or equivalent for example might be more than enough provided we keep the rest of our important players.

[BabuYagu]

Increasingly, the tactics thread is becoming how do Liverpool improve with new players more than a discussion of actual tactics, systems, changes etc. Sure, some of that will be fed by the players we replace in the summer in the starting lineup, but tactically - what happens with Karius v Alisson is irrelevant. Tactically, nothing will change. It is just not a discussion for here. Most of this is squad building discussion - which again, is not tactics.

Not wanting to be the one saying "can we please focus and stay on topic" but just very weary of the fact that this is sliding towards a pre-transfer forum chat on our summer business to bridge the gap we have for that sort of discussion. Let's not please, otherwise this thread will just get shut down.

[stockdam]

I think Klopp has had to change his tactics after Coutinho left and also with Lallana injured. He is now using a more solid midfield that is good at breaking up play and also can support the front 3 if needed. I think he's now letting the front 3 do their thing and playing more defensively when we don't have the ball. All of our players are capable of moving forward when we have the ball but I see the swing to a more defensive style...........which I think is better. We have always been great going forward but not as good in midfield when we don't have the ball.

We have a top 3 who are as good as any in the league and we now are seeing a midfield that can tackle back and press.

[Chris~]

To keep it tactics related. Why do people think we've started to do better against the shit teams? What are we doing different now to last season?

[Giono]

I'm really curious about what we do at CB. Quotes today from Klopp saying that Gomez will eventually transition to CB, but didn't put a timeline on it. If it was from next season (and that makes sense if Clyne and TAA are used at RB) then it might negate the need for a signing there.

After Van Dijk signed, Mel Reddy said we were still looking to strengthen there. She mentioned Manuel Akanji (since moved to Dortmund), Aymeric Laporte (now at City) and Jose Gimenez as players we were looking at. Interestingly, they're all 22/23 - that suggests to me that Klopp is looking for a certain age profile in his CB signing. Someone with decent experience, but not yet coming into their peak. It's why I don't think we'll go for Alderweireld or De Vrij, even though the latter is on a free.

And if we do sign someone like Gimenez (or equivalent) it throws up some interesting questions on our other CBs. Who stays and who would go? You'd have a pool of Van Dijk, Gimenez, Matip, Lovren, Klavan and potentially Gomez. I like the idea of just losing Klavan and having a really strong four with Gomez learning his trade. But realistically, it's hard to do that and keep people happy, especially when only three CBs usually make the squad. So if we did brought someone in, I'd expect Matip or Lovren to be sold. Then we'd have Van Dijk, Matip/Lovren, Gimenez (or equivalent) and Gomez. Would be happy with that.

Are we really goung to go with a young player learning the position with a bit part role on a team going for the title? I rate Gomez a lot and am excited about him becoming our centre back of the future. But is it fair to him to be a backup for several seasons? I would suggest that it may be better that he goes out on loan for a season where he’d play every match. We have Klavan, VVD, Lovren, Matip and maybe one more. I maybe think Klavan as our 4th or 5th defender is fine for one more season I’d think.

Klopp knows best. It will be interesting to see what he decides. He doesn’t think that Woodburn needs a loan, but hasn’t been playing him either. But it may be different for a defender than an attacker.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

To keep it tactics related. Why do people think we've started to do better against the shit teams? What are we doing different now to last season?

Creating better overlap situations and stretching the play is the main thing I've noticed in recent times. Milner, Oxlade, Trent and Robertson was like having four wingers on Saturday, allowing our front three to fill the box and half-spaces.

Scoring first is also a massive factor.

[clinical]

I really believe the money is there, as it was for VVD and Keita.

If we're talking tactics and priorities, what do we see as the key areas to improve, the must haves?

---Goalkeeper is interesting. I'd say break the bank for Alisson Becker, if you're not going to get a better Keeper this generation.
(Klopp says "Hmmmm but what if Karius is good enough?)

Number 6----Get Jorginho, or Wanyama, SMS is not a 6 but looks a great fit - make that area really strong, better than Spurs, competing with Man City

CB - Klopp may leave it, however Stevan DeVrij is a FREE transfer and is Dutchman to speak with VVD. Brainer, nill.

Wide forward ---Surely Klopp goes in BIG for one player at Dortmund while he's with us, surely would be the American boy. FSG will see pound signs.

Perhaps the biggest signing? Mo Salah on the 200k a week plus scoring bonuses

Keita is potential game-changer too

Agreed, and I really hope is it. Top 4 finish and 3 players plus Keita we're in with a shout. No way city are this good again next year. Just can't see it.

I think Keita is a game changer but so is a new keeper unless Karius suddenly becomes great.

I think the 4 positions you say are the ones we need. Ideally a wide forward who can also play in centre, possibly even upfront would be the best.

Thinking about it we could well spend big on Pulisic because his wages will not be high compared to others and as you say FSG will love the idea of best American player at LFC.

The no.6 is hugely important I was in the camp for getting a big unit in there and it is a risk not having one in a way. But Keita and Jorginho have both got good defensive stats in fairness, literally only concern is aerial ability.

I personally see cb as a lower priority, but again de Vrij on a free, surely you don't pass that up. Worst case you sell the worst one out of Matip, Lovren, De Vrij the following summer and you've made money out of it.

[BabuYagu]

To keep it tactics related. Why do people think we've started to do better against the shit teams? What are we doing different now to last season?

I hate putting it down to any one thing. But if I had to say the most important factor - I would say width. TAA is all sorts of effective width. He carries so many tools that are effective in penetrating the block and reminds me a lot of Glen Johnson when he was effective for us under Rafa in such games.

Likewise, Robertson is improving game to game and is now starting to work in the system instead of clashing with it in possession. He is making those dangerous overlapping runs, he is making runs just to drag defenders with him sagging the defensive line. His delivery is now lower trajectory aiming to fall between keeper and defence rather than for the likes of Abel Hernandez, Mbokani & Niasse who he had been providing for with deeper crosses at Hull.

One thing he isn't doing yet - or often enough at least - is pulling full backs wide then attacking the channel that creates between full back and center back. This is REALLY effective at disrupting that low block in the most crucial as it forces a center back to come across creating space in the 6 yard box for any striker to attack for a cut back or cross.

From an attacking sense, Moreno is very good at attacking the low block also. However on the right I am not sure Clyne is, although far better than both Gomez and Milner (when at left back). In our system, the full backs have to provide that width and Gomez simply doesn't. Clyne does but doesn't have nearly the same tools as the likes of TAA, Robertson or Moreno. But he is an exceptional defender who is good enough going forward to justify keeping him.

One thing I would like to see Klopp do more of in games we aren't breaking sides down would be to sacrifice a defensive full back for the like of Chamberlain or TAA with plenty of time to go. We lack the needle players centrally (which we need to add starting with Keita) to pierce through the central areas so attacking the block from the sides to prise open the center seems our best approach - very much like many of Mr Ferguson's best sides did actually.

[stockdam]

To keep it tactics related. Why do people think we've started to do better against the shit teams? What are we doing different now to last season?

We're stiffling their counter attacks better and we also have a defender who is good in the air.

We know that we have the fire-power and now we focus a bit more on keeping the game tight. We may be playing a bit further back which gives us more space for the counter.

[clinical]

Clyne is the type of right back you'd prefer playing away at the big sides but TAA is much better at helping to break teams down.

Imo we have right back sorted for years.

[Barefoot Doctor]

From an attacking sense, Moreno is very good at attacking the low block also. However on the right I am not sure Clyne is, although far better than both Gomez and Milner (when at left back). In our system, the full backs have to provide that width and Gomez simply doesn't. Clyne does but doesn't have nearly the same tools as the likes of TAA, Robertson or Moreno. But he is an exceptional defender who is good enough going forward to justify keeping him.

Klopp's quotes yesterday on fullback - specifically Clyne - were really interesting:

"Clyne is the most experienced one but was injured. He has speed, technically good, he is not really an offensive player, but he protects well and helps a lot in defensive moments.

"Joe Gomez is coming from the centre more, he will in the future play there. He has to improve but is more the defensive part for a full-back.

"Then there is Trent, who is very offensive orientated, fantastic crosses, good footballer. He has this little bit of street kid. If you see the crosses, they are a little bit dirty. They are not only crosses *makes a pop sound* but he does it."

I suppose the question is, who does he favour at RB next year, assuming all three are at the club? Is it as simple as Trent against the low block sides, Clyne against the better teams and Gomez at CB?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jurgen-klopp-delighted-form-street-14336487

[BabuYagu]

Clyne is the type of right back you'd prefer playing away at the big sides but TAA is much better at helping to break teams down.

Imo we have right back sorted for years.

So based on that, how many games a season would Clyne play "away at the big sides"?

Hence my dilemma with him. Read anything I have said on him and I attributed his absence on the right of defence this season to all sorts of problems we had this season. He is first class at the back. However on the ball, he isn't. He's decent, but if sides are going to defend deep against us and giving how rapidly the side is improving now season to season in terms of attacking such sides, we are not far away from him being the weak link against such sides. Then what? Wheel out our first choice right back who is on first XI wages to play 5-10 games a season? Why would he be happy with that situation?

I suspect Clyne will be a player who wants to be first choice at a side and play ~40 games a season. However the vast majority of our games would be categorised as facing a compact defence bar the odd few. So where does he get the game time that his squad status and salary dictate he should and no doubt that he would like?

[BabuYagu]

Klopp's quotes yesterday on fullback - specifically Clyne - were really interesting:

"Clyne is the most experienced one but was injured. He has speed, technically good, he is not really an offensive player, but he protects well and helps a lot in defensive moments.

"Joe Gomez is coming from the centre more, he will in the future play there. He has to improve but is more the defensive part for a full-back.

"Then there is Trent, who is very offensive orientated, fantastic crosses, good footballer. He has this little bit of street kid. If you see the crosses, they are a little bit dirty. They are not only crosses *makes a pop sound* but he does it."

I suppose the question is, who does he favour at RB next year, assuming all three are at the club? Is it as simple as Trent against the low block sides, Clyne against the better teams and Gomez at CB?

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/Jürgen-klopp-delighted-form-street-14336487

Interesting read that, thanks.

It gets even more interesting when you write down all our games and write next to them who our ideal right back breaking it down as clinical did above. Suddenly you see that your first choice right back is struggling to play more than 10 games a season. At which point he ceases to be a first choice players. Then what? Replace him with a TAA understudy? Replace him with a more experienced version of TAA? Keep him as a highly paid specialist right back for 1/4 of our games a season?

Also would rotating him in for the occasional game realistically see high value performances from him. Surely some sort of consistency would be needed for him to provide those big performances in big games.

Saying you should keep a player for special games is great in theory but just doesn't stand up to much scrutiny and doesn't work in practice when you are dealing with people who have their own wants, goals, ambitions. Not to mention the financial side of things in paying Clyne 4 times as much as TAA to play 1/4 of the games. (ALERT: Numbers pulled from arse)