Topic: Labour leadership contest: Who is your choice?

[Wabaloolah]

Keir Starmer has to win for Labour to have a chance of rebuilding and depriving the Tories of a free run at the next two or three elections.

People are tarring him with the 2nd referendum option within the manifesto and claiming that killed any chance Labour had!

When Brexshit goes tits up, as it may well do by 2024, that brush may not be quite so well tarred by then.

I don't think Labour will have too much difficulty winning back seats from the Tories that they lost in December with any candidate beside Long-Bailey.

I like Jess, just don't think she'd go down well in an election so I can't back her

Lisa Nandy is a decent second choice and her winning would at least allow Labour to put to bed the fact that they've never had a female leader but making the party credible is the only thing on the agenda for me. Elect the wrong person as the last two incumbents have been and that could really be the end.

I have rejoined Labour to vote in this election and I shall be backing Keir Starmer as leader, and ABB (Anyone But Burgon) for deputy. I am tempted by Iain Murray, as he spoke very well in a newsnight interview earlier and he could attract back some much needed support north of the border. I suspect I may vote for Angela Rayner though

[Wabaloolah]

These are the MPs/MEPs who nominated Richard Burgon

Richard Burgon – 22 nominated

Diane Abbott
Apsana Begum
Richard Burgon
Ian Byrne
Dan Carden
Mary Foy
Rachel Hopkins
Imran Hussain
Ian Lavery
Andy McDonald
John McDonnell
Ian Mearns
Claude Moraes
Grahame Morris
Kate Osborne
Yasmin Qureshi
Bell Ribeiro-Addy
Zarah Sultana
Jon Trickett
Claudia Webbe
Beth Winter
Mohammed Yasin

[WhereAngelsPlay]

These are the MPs/MEPs who nominated Richard Burgon

Richard Burgon – 22 nominated

Spoiler

Diane Abbott
Apsana Begum
Richard Burgon
Ian Byrne
Dan Carden
Mary Foy
Rachel Hopkins
Imran Hussain
Ian Lavery
Andy McDonald
John McDonnell
Ian Mearns
Claude Moraes
Grahame Morris
Kate Osborne
Yasmin Qureshi
Bell Ribeiro-Addy
Zarah Sultana
Jon Trickett
Claudia Webbe
Beth Winter
Mohammed Yasin

[close]

Another loon who could never win a GE. 

[Lush is the best medicine...]

These are the MPs/MEPs who nominated Richard Burgon

Richard Burgon – 22 nominated

Diane Abbott
Apsana Begum
Richard Burgon
Ian Byrne
Dan Carden
Mary Foy
Rachel Hopkins
Imran Hussain
Ian Lavery
Andy McDonald
John McDonnell
Ian Mearns
Claude Moraes
Grahame Morris
Kate Osborne
Yasmin Qureshi
Bell Ribeiro-Addy
Zarah Sultana
Jon Trickett
Claudia Webbe
Beth Winter
Mohammed Yasin

At least two of them are merseyside MPs, no shock dan ‘Venezuela solidarity’ Carden is one of them, ditto lavery

Do find it funny that you can nominate yourself, the most Burgon thing imaginable

[killer-heels]

At least two of them are merseyside MPs, no shock dan ‘Venezuela solidarity’ Carden is one of them, ditto lavery

Do find it funny that you can nominate yourself, the most Burgon thing imaginable

Thats the same for all leadership candidates.

[cloggypop]

@DanCardenMP: I support @RLong_Bailey for Leader and @AngelaRayner for Deputy Leader. Ange was typically supportive when I lent my nomination to our friend @RichardBurgon to ensure he made the ballot. A range of voices should be heard in the debates. It's for the members to decide.

[ToneLa]

Starmer for the sole reason that most everyone I know - including, depressingly, my sisters who "hated Corbyn" - find him electable

I'd rather have a watered down Labour in power than Yet More Tories

[TepidT2O]

Starmer for the sole reason that most everyone I know - including, depressingly, my sisters who "hated Corbyn" - find him electable

I'd rather have a watered down Labour in power than Yet More Tories

What gives you the impression Starmer will be watered down labour?

I don’t see that

[Wabaloolah]

@DanCardenMP: I support @RLong_Bailey for Leader and @AngelaRayner for Deputy Leader. Ange was typically supportive when I lent my nomination to our friend @RichardBurgon to ensure he made the ballot. A range of voices should be heard in the debates. It's for the members to decide.

FFS that's exactly how Corbyn got on the ballot paper in 2015. When will they ever learn!

[Lush is the best medicine...]

FFS that's exactly how Corbyn got on the ballot paper in 2015. When will they ever learn!

those who nominated burgon don’t see the last few years as a mistake, as widening the debate gives a chance for one of their muppets to win whereas the PLP would normally keep them out due to them being idiots

[Yorkykopite]

They also forget that the general public is watching. The moe air time that is given to airheads like Burgon the more difficult it becomes to persuade people that Labour isn't still orbiting Saturn.

[classycarra]

@DanCardenMP: I support @RLong_Bailey for Leader and @AngelaRayner for Deputy Leader. Ange was typically supportive when I lent my nomination to our friend @RichardBurgon to ensure he made the ballot. A range of voices should be heard in the debates. It's for the members to decide.

Worked a treat in 2015, no unintended consequences.

[Red-Soldier]

If L-B and Burgon get elected then we all might as well go home.

[classycarra]

They also forget that the general public is watching. The moe air time that is given to airheads like Burgon the more difficult it becomes to persuade people that Labour isn't still orbiting Saturn.

Good point. He's going to embarrass and piss off so many prospective voters.

You've got to love how Carden's praising himself for doing it too. Talking about cronyism like it's a virtue, and then not a positive thing to say about Burgon except that he's a mate.

The whole point of the election process, as set up by the NEC, is to wittle down the choices so the members have only good options to vote for. This guy can't even handle the responsibility of giving his support to the person he wanted to (Raynor). Talk about lacking the courage of your convictions.

[filopastry]

What gives you the impression Starmer will be watered down labour?

I don’t see that

I don't know a great deal about his policy positions but what I have seen seems to indicate he is economically from the left of the party, fortunately he doesn't have the baggage on the foreign policy/security side of things that Corbyn had however.

[killer-heels]

FFS that's exactly how Corbyn got on the ballot paper in 2015. When will they ever learn!

He voted for Long Bailey. He is on that side of the party.

[classycarra]

He voted for Long Bailey. He is on that side of the party.

But he said himself that he is supporting Raynor. Just couldn't cope with all the responsibility of going with his preference. Or succumbed too easily to an awkward request from a friend or someone like McDonnell. Absolute mentality minnow

[Linudden]

When Brexshit goes tits up, as it may well do by 2024, that brush may not be quite so well tarred by then.

I don't think Labour will have too much difficulty winning back seats from the Tories that they lost in December with any candidate beside Long-Bailey.

Both are quite wild assumptions - that Brexit will have such a negative effect on the economy to swing ex-Labour seats where there's very little youth vote around and where people are mad at Labour more than anything else.

The likes of Crewe & Nantwich, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Scunthorpe for example don't look like assailable majorities to me. Let alone those the Tories flipped in 2017 against the national swing (Stoke South, Middlesbrough South, Walsall North and Mansfield).

If Labour start going after those seats while ignoring the seats they narrowly lost in 2019 that they didn't previously hold or narrowly held. Going all-out to win back "Bolsover coz it's Labour" for emotional reasons is not what Labour need. Preventing a majority is going to be done by winning back the Birmingham seat they lost along with Burnley, Bury, Peterborough, Stoke Central, West Bromwich, Wolverhampton et cetera. Lots of suburban London seats are also in that category. Way more fertile ground for the party.

[killer-heels]

But he said himself that he is supporting Raynor. Just couldn't cope with all the responsibility of going with his preference. Or succumbed too easily to an awkward request from a friend or someone like McDonnell. Absolute mentality minnow

Maybe, but I very much doubt he clearly gives a shit if Raynor or Burgeon get in. Thats unlike 2015 where even Corbyn sceptics voted for him.

[Dr. Beaker]

I don't know a great deal about his policy positions but what I have seen seems to indicate he is economically from the left of the party, fortunately he doesn't have the baggage on the foreign policy/security side of things that Corbyn had however.

Don't worry, the media will soon dredge up something from his days at the CPS will will suddenly attain Watergate levels of importance.

[classycarra]

Don't worry, the media will soon dredge up something from his days at the CPS will will suddenly attain Watergate levels of importance.

I saw Corbyn supporters doing that about him yesterday. Something about 'going after scroungers'

[Nobby Reserve]

I saw Corbyn supporters doing that about him yesterday. Something about 'going after scroungers'

He's anti-Royal Family? Never knew that.

[oldfordie]

Both are quite wild assumptions - that Brexit will have such a negative effect on the economy to swing ex-Labour seats where there's very little youth vote around and where people are mad at Labour more than anything else.

The likes of Crewe & Nantwich, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Scunthorpe for example don't look like assailable majorities to me. Let alone those the Tories flipped in 2017 against the national swing (Stoke South, Middlesbrough South, Walsall North and Mansfield).

If Labour start going after those seats while ignoring the seats they narrowly lost in 2019 that they didn't previously hold or narrowly held. Going all-out to win back "Bolsover coz it's Labour" for emotional reasons is not what Labour need. Preventing a majority is going to be done by winning back the Birmingham seat they lost along with Burnley, Bury, Peterborough, Stoke Central, West Bromwich, Wolverhampton et cetera. Lots of suburban London seats are also in that category. Way more fertile ground for the party.

You may well be right and the fact Labour can't win back these voters shows just how useless they have been over the last few years.
People won't be won over by the negative effect on the economy, we should have learned this lesson a few yrs back. arguing GDP will fall just falls on deaf ears. we have already lost more than $170 biil since the vote to leave shrunk the economy. that's more than we have sent the EU in 47 yrs of EU membership. yet whose bothered, people will still claim we are going to save millions every week when we stop sending the EU money.
I think the government have some very serious problems ahead that will affect millions of people in the pocket, it will affect millions personally, that's when people will start to react, it's up to Labour to lay the full blame for this on the Tories.

[Zeb]

Momentum's desire for "democratisation of the party" raises yet more eyebrows as they release their ballot to get some semblance of a mandate from the membership to use their resources to campaign for Long Bailey and Rayner.

Spoiler

[close]

[OOS]

Don't worry, the media will soon dredge up something from his days at the CPS will will suddenly attain Watergate levels of importance.

So?

If hes competent, he would would have his rebuttals ready and move the debate on. That's what any good leader would do.

Corbyn was dreadful at this.

[Wabaloolah]

You may well be right and the fact Labour can't win back these voters shows just how useless they have been over the last few years.
People won't be won over by the negative effect on the economy, we should have learned this lesson a few yrs back. arguing GDP will fall just falls on deaf ears. we have already lost more than $170 biil since the vote to leave shrunk the economy. that's more than we have sent the EU in 47 yrs of EU membership. yet whose bothered, people will still claim we are going to save millions every week when we stop sending the EU money.
I think the government have some very serious problems ahead that will affect millions of people in the pocket, it will affect millions personally, that's when people will start to react, it's up to Labour to lay the full blame for this on the Tories.

there's been minimal impact on people's jobs so far. That will likely change once the full impact of Brexit is felt, at that point Labour need to go for the jugular. If it doesn't happen then Brexit won't have been as bad as the economic assessment implied

[Wabaloolah]

Both are quite wild assumptions - that Brexit will have such a negative effect on the economy to swing ex-Labour seats where there's very little youth vote around and where people are mad at Labour more than anything else.

The likes of Crewe & Nantwich, Dudley North, Great Grimsby, Newcastle-under-Lyme and Scunthorpe for example don't look like assailable majorities to me. Let alone those the Tories flipped in 2017 against the national swing (Stoke South, Middlesbrough South, Walsall North and Mansfield).

If Labour start going after those seats while ignoring the seats they narrowly lost in 2019 that they didn't previously hold or narrowly held. Going all-out to win back "Bolsover coz it's Labour" for emotional reasons is not what Labour need. Preventing a majority is going to be done by winning back the Birmingham seat they lost along with Burnley, Bury, Peterborough, Stoke Central, West Bromwich, Wolverhampton et cetera. Lots of suburban London seats are also in that category. Way more fertile ground for the party.

well we'll have to wait and see, if Brexit isn't as bad as many are predicting then seats like Workington, Redcar etc may well stay with the Tories. If it is as bad as predicted and people start losing their jobs then any credible Labour leader should at least be able to reverse some of the losses in order to prevent a Tory Majority.

What they then need to do is reform the voting system that prevents the Tories ever governing alone again

[oldfordie]

there's been minimal impact on people's jobs so far. That will likely change once the full impact of Brexit is felt, at that point Labour need to go for the jugular. If it doesn't happen then Brexit won't have been as bad as the economic assessment implied

Maybe we need another thread covering Brexit but certain negative impacts are impossible to escape. they will make UK companies far less competitive and inefficient. loss of frictionless trading is now certain. companies will no longer be able to guarantee delivery dates.
We know agriculture imports will be allowed in tariff free so thats UK farming wiped out, we shall see what the government do when it comes to enforcing WTO tariffs on all imports.
There will be a big negative impact starting in 2021. we have already heard some of the Tory excuses, how these companies were already in trouble anyway, bad management looking for excuses pointing the finger at Brexit when they should be grasping all those glorious opportunities.
Will we still have a weak Labour leadership unable to fight this propaganda, how will they react when the facts tell us things are going to get worse.

[Zeb]

Just on the 'red wall' seats, and the pull they have, thing to keep in mind is that the whole concept of them is that they were places where Labour were significantly overperforming given the make-up of the electorate in those constituencies in comparison to similar ones elsewhere in the country. To win them back, now the cultural aspect of voting Labour is diminished, means addressing the problems which meant Labour struggled all over the country. Brexit may be one strand of doing that but the impact may be a bit boiled frog with the additional problem that the concept of the policy is popular/not seen as wrong by those who voted for it. Eerily similar in some ways to Labour's problems around austerity - not only in failure to oppose effectively initially but then in framing a counterargument which works.

[Machae]

Keir Starmer has to win for Labour to have a chance of rebuilding and depriving the Tories of a free run at the next two or three elections.

People are tarring him with the 2nd referendum option within the manifesto and claiming that killed any chance Labour had!

Keir Starmer for me. It is my opinion that had he been Labour leader, Labour would be in power right now. Unfortunately Corbyn just didn't appeal to the wider demographic, irrespective of Brexit.

[Felch Aid]

Starmer for me.

If he becomes leader he'll have a competent shadow cabinet and he's the only person that will be able to scrutinise Boris and co. Suspect he will be pretty ruthless at PMQ's and he'll cross examine the buffoon articulately. The number of times the previous regime never held the incompetent government to account was negligent.

He's been quite reserved and I've no doubt he will have Blair in his ear at times although I don't see a huge swing back to nu labour or centre straight away.

[Mutton Geoff]

Still not sure about Starmer's charisma factor, if he does win they will need to create a shadow cabinet that includes all the party, i would maybe have Benn as Foreign minister as he reminds me of a geography teacher minus the patched elbow jacket.

[Commie Bobbie]

I just want the fucking Tories out of power.

If that means being elected on some watered down nonsense then I can accept that.

[TepidT2O]

Still not sure about Starmer's charisma factor, if he does win they will need to create a shadow cabinet that includes all the party, i would maybe have Benn as Foreign minister as he reminds me of a geography teacher minus the patched elbow jacket.

It depends what we mean by charisma I guess.  That hideous baboon Johnson is said to have charisma.

In Starmer’s case I think he comes across as honest straightforward and trustworthy...  which might be a great contrast to the bull shot Meister.

Phillips probably isn’t ready for it,  uk she’s got real charisma too (although in some cases this might be off putting for people).  I don’t think I’ve ever seen Nancy speak to be honest, so I can’t comment on her.  As for the other candidate, she’s got the charisma of an undertaker.

[Jiminy Cricket]

I just want the fucking Tories out of power.

If that means being elected on some watered down nonsense then I can accept that.

But it is not "watered down nonsense". Politics is - and always should be - the art of the compromise. No minority (or majority) group should get exactly what they seek.

[Mutton Geoff]

It depends what we mean by charisma I guess.  That hideous baboon Johnson is said to have charisma.

In Starmer’s case I think he comes across as honest straightforward and trustworthy...  which might be a great contrast to the bull shot Meister.

Phillips probably isn’t ready for it,  uk she’s got real charisma too (although in some cases this might be off putting for people).  I don’t think I’ve ever seen Nancy speak to be honest, so I can’t comment on her.  As for the other candidate, she’s got the charisma of an undertaker.

do you mean the posh Hattie Jacques lookalike , not sure why she bothered

[Jiminy Cricket]

It depends what we mean by charisma I guess.  That hideous baboon Johnson is said to have charisma.

In Starmer’s case I think he comes across as honest straightforward and trustworthy...  which might be a great contrast to the bull shot Meister.

Phillips probably isn’t ready for it,  uk she’s got real charisma too (although in some cases this might be off putting for people).  I don’t think I’ve ever seen Nancy speak to be honest, so I can’t comment on her.  As for the other candidate, she’s got the charisma of an undertaker.

I think that's an insult to undertakers.

[TepidT2O]

do you mean the posh Hattie Jacques lookalike , not sure why she bothered

I forgot there were two others... both have zero charisma..... (well, to the public as a whole anyway, I’m sure in their own office they’re lovely).

[west_london_red]

do you mean the posh Hattie Jacques lookalike , not sure why she bothered

Ooooooh matron!

[Zeb]

Tim Bale's written about what his survey of Labour members shows about who was supporting which candidate and, more intriguingly, some of the reasons 'why'. Obviously, this is still the start of the whole campaign for leader...

https://theconversation.com/labour-leadership-race-survey-shows-momentum-members-arent-unified-behind-rebecca-long-bailey-130000



Thought this was interesting conclusion too.

Judging by the campaign so far, Starmer’s team is doing its very best to stress to Labour members that he also believes in something. This is a wise move. Historically, when picking leaders, parties have taken candidates’ convictions into account but have tended to put more of premium on their perceived ability to unite the party and then on their supposed appeal to voters. Nowadays, when members rather than MPs matter most to the decision a party makes, convictions can really count.