Author Topic: United Ireland v United Kingdom  (Read 35225 times)

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #160 on: February 7, 2019, 05:24:55 pm »
Well it makes a change from them using Scotland.
I was thinking this after I'd left that last night. Went off to do a bit of research, and it wasn't really a surprise to find that out.

Offline drmick

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #161 on: February 7, 2019, 05:56:58 pm »
I'm curious- would this be possible if the UK was still in the EU?

Offline cowtownred

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #162 on: February 7, 2019, 06:52:11 pm »
I was thinking this after I'd left that last night. Went off to do a bit of research, and it wasn't really a surprise to find that out.

About 80% is at Sellafield in Cumbria, no?

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #163 on: February 8, 2019, 01:21:14 am »
Well it makes a change from them using Scotland.

Sorry but can't find the link but I believe the scottish equivalent investigation was halted in 2014 because of the referendum. Nearly makes you think they are doing this to force another referendum....? If you got rid of NI then a tory brexit is much easier.

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #164 on: February 23, 2019, 01:17:33 am »
Anyway, positives for UI:

1. We'll always have government so schools, hospitals, waste, etc. will be regulated

2. Shinners or dupers, whichever you dislike you won't have to vote for the opposite

3. You will be better off!

4. You will be legally responsible for your own body if you are a woman - yes really!

5. You can stick or poke your genitals where and when you want regardless of the partner - in fact I wholly recommend it (no pun intended :) )

I am sure there are others

6. Nearly forgot this one!, we will be members of the EU :) No questions asked, isn't that nice

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #165 on: February 23, 2019, 02:54:50 am »
Anyway, positives for UI:

1. We'll always have government so schools, hospitals, waste, etc. will be regulated

2. Shinners or dupers, whichever you dislike you won't have to vote for the opposite

3. You will be better off!

4. You will be legally responsible for your own body if you are a woman - yes really!

5. You can stick or poke your genitals where and when you want regardless of the partner - in fact I wholly recommend it (no pun intended :) )

I am sure there are others

6. Nearly forgot this one!, we will be members of the EU :) No questions asked, isn't that nice
That's the hard sell right there.

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #166 on: February 23, 2019, 10:23:14 pm »
Not that hard a sell but something that needs to be clearly explained before we have a referendum. NI is the poorest area in the Uk and ROI is richer than NI so it will not be an issue although equivalency does need to be defined, the Irish government needs to clearly define this to inform the decision as part of the referendum. Too many people assume it'll be Sinn Fein leading the vote - it won't it'll be the Irish government setting out the position.

Offline naka

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #167 on: February 23, 2019, 10:56:13 pm »
Not that hard a sell but something that needs to be clearly explained before we have a referendum. NI is the poorest area in the Uk and ROI is richer than NI so it will not be an issue although equivalency does need to be defined, the Irish government needs to clearly define this to inform the decision as part of the referendum. Too many people assume it'll be Sinn Fein leading the vote - it won't it'll be the Irish government setting out the position.
That’s the sadness of this
Too many unionists see Sinn Fein as leading the charge and are rightly reticent.
Jeez I am a nationalist and wouldn’t trust them
The  legitimacy to push for unity needs to be take away from them

Offline BobOnATank

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #168 on: February 23, 2019, 11:26:18 pm »
I have the same background and agree, a decision is about the future, for our kids and theirs so its not about the past and what the dupers or shinners did and also most certainly about a strong government. This is why it is so much to do with the Irish government, everything hinges on them.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #169 on: April 19, 2019, 04:05:39 am »
Not so united or in the traditional spirit of Easter.

Derry: woman killed in 'terrorist' act, say Northern Ireland police
Petrol bombs thrown and shots fired in Creggan area of city

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/19/derry-woman-killed-in-terrorist-act-say-northern-ireland-police
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Offline cowtownred

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #170 on: April 19, 2019, 12:25:22 pm »
Not so united or in the traditional spirit of Easter.

Derry: woman killed in 'terrorist' act, say Northern Ireland police
Petrol bombs thrown and shots fired in Creggan area of city

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/19/derry-woman-killed-in-terrorist-act-say-northern-ireland-police

Not sure what you mean?  Easter in Ireland is not only a religious festival, but a strong political moment.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #171 on: April 19, 2019, 12:41:25 pm »
Not sure what you mean?  Easter in Ireland is not only a religious festival, but a strong political moment.

I'm more than aware of the significance of Easter to the Irish uprising as I had family involved in it. A strong political moment is not an opportunity to kill another person in what is suppose to be a Christian religious festival recognised by both sides of the political divide.
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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #172 on: April 19, 2019, 04:11:47 pm »
Not sure what you mean?  Easter in Ireland is not only a religious festival, but a strong political moment.



Well that's alright then.  ::)
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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #173 on: April 19, 2019, 04:58:53 pm »
I've said it before, I'll say it again, these people doing this shit are fucking morons. They haven't got a brain cell between them, and what happened last night is direct proof. It was only a matter of time, and the people of Derry should single these c*nts out for justice, because even though the dickhead that did this should hand himself in, he won't. For Ireland? No. This is for them being as thick as two short planks, and they are more of a danger to Ireland right now than anything, which is ironic.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #174 on: April 19, 2019, 06:55:59 pm »
I respect your opinion but Why?

Sorry, I missed this.

In theory, it makes sense (although I'm dubious about historical claims, we were occupied for so long I doubt there's ever been a United Ireland before). On a geopolitical basis, sporting, foreign affairs, customs, shipping and so on, it makes sense. But there are a couple of reasons why I'm not for it.

Firstly, I don't think we can currently afford to bring NI under our umbrella. As far as I understand (and I'm open to correction), NI is a net taker from the UK, something in the region of €12 billion per annum. That's more than our education budget.

Second, and probably more importantly, 47% of people in Northern Ireland consider themselves "strongly British".  If there were a referendum on unification, slightly more people in NI would vote to remain in the UK. I have very little interest in unifying with a place where half the people don't want unity. That's the kind of thing that got us all where we are. We'd just be swapping out the government half the people don't want for a government the other half don't want. I don't know what the number needs to be, in terms of percent in favour, but half is not a runner.

Offline cowtownred

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #175 on: April 19, 2019, 07:43:50 pm »


Well that's alright then.  ::)

Did I say it was alright?  Don't try to make it out that I'm some kind of murder supporter.  I merely asked the other guy to explain what he meant, which he did.

Offline kennedy81

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #176 on: April 19, 2019, 08:35:30 pm »
Sorry, I missed this.

In theory, it makes sense (although I'm dubious about historical claims, we were occupied for so long I doubt there's ever been a United Ireland before). On a geopolitical basis, sporting, foreign affairs, customs, shipping and so on, it makes sense. But there are a couple of reasons why I'm not for it.

Firstly, I don't think we can currently afford to bring NI under our umbrella. As far as I understand (and I'm open to correction), NI is a net taker from the UK, something in the region of €12 billion per annum. That's more than our education budget.

Second, and probably more importantly, 47% of people in Northern Ireland consider themselves "strongly British".  If there were a referendum on unification, slightly more people in NI would vote to remain in the UK. I have very little interest in unifying with a place where half the people don't want unity. That's the kind of thing that got us all where we are. We'd just be swapping out the government half the people don't want for a government the other half don't want. I don't know what the number needs to be, in terms of percent in favour, but half is not a runner.
I'm largely of this opinion too. There are times when I think the idea of a UI has great potential. But there are too many deep rooted problems up there still. The republic has made great strides in the last 30 or so years, in many aspects of life. I fear we'd be throwing a lot of that away.

There's clearly many people up there who would never be happy in a UI. Almost a million people who identify as British, with some having very hard-right views on abortion and gay rights, not to mention being anti-EU.
There are also many people in the south who want a UI for all the wrong reasons. Rather than seeing it as an opportunity for a better future for everyone, they see it as a means of putting the wrongs of the past to right. Which is totally the wrong mindset. They see Irish unity through a lens of romanticized Irish republicanism, and they are not ready for Orange Order parades through the streets of Dublin, as the mayhem in Dublin in 2006 showed.
They would see it as a victory for Irish nationalism, not as an opportunity to create better relationships with northern Protestants, and create something better than the sum of its parts.

There are so many issues... economic, political, education, security. It could take a lifetime to untangle them all without wrecking the country.
There are many people, both north and south from both communities who would be willing to give it a chance. But it only takes a small minority to fuck it up for everyone else, and I fear that's exactly what would happen.
I'm willing to keep an open mind until a border poll ever takes place, but I've yet to hear any really convincing pro-UI arguments, that are rooted in reality and not just misty-eyed nationalism. And I would want to see a genuine buy-in from at least 50% of Protestant people in the north, and we're still a long way from that.

Offline FlashingBlade

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #177 on: April 19, 2019, 09:38:10 pm »
Did I say it was alright?  Don't try to make it out that I'm some kind of murder supporter.  I merely asked the other guy to explain what he meant, which he did.


So in simple words, what is your view if the murder of that young women the other night?

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #178 on: April 19, 2019, 10:24:48 pm »
I'm struggling to put into words my thoughts about what happened here, but I'll try. These cretins, they're pathetic, low life, vermin, cowardly c*nts. I have family who live just yards from where that happened and it could of been anyone.
They hid behind a wall with their masks on to fire a distance away not caring who they hit. There's real anger. People will know who they are. Who the hell do they think they are anyway ?  I'm fed up to the back teeth with people associating Derry for violence because of a minority of scum, who's strings are no doubt being pulled by the sad old men who are stuck in the past and getting bits of kids to do their dirty work.
And this all started over a house getting raided by the way.
The little fuck that did that, I'll bet you anything he has not one clue why he wants a United Ireland, but some c*nt told him its what should happen and gave him a gun.
I'm a very pissed off man with the shit going on here lately (in Derry I mean) between this, the car bomb.
I don't like the tone either directed towards Sean/Cowtown. Just saying. Read his stuff, he's against all this shit as much as anyone so leave it out eh ?

Offline cowtownred

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #179 on: April 20, 2019, 12:26:15 am »
So in simple words, what is your view if the murder of that young women the other night?

Well how is it anything other than despicable?  Who would defend an action like that?

Offline cowtownred

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #180 on: April 20, 2019, 12:39:03 am »
I'm struggling to put into words my thoughts about what happened here, but I'll try. These cretins, they're pathetic, low life, vermin, cowardly c*nts. I have family who live just yards from where that happened and it could of been anyone.
They hid behind a wall with their masks on to fire a distance away not caring who they hit. There's real anger. People will know who they are. Who the hell do they think they are anyway ?  I'm fed up to the back teeth with people associating Derry for violence because of a minority of scum, who's strings are no doubt being pulled by the sad old men who are stuck in the past and getting bits of kids to do their dirty work.
And this all started over a house getting raided by the way.
The little fuck that did that, I'll bet you anything he has not one clue why he wants a United Ireland, but some c*nt told him its what should happen and gave him a gun.
I'm a very pissed off man with the shit going on here lately (in Derry I mean) between this, the car bomb.
I don't like the tone either directed towards Sean/Cowtown. Just saying. Read his stuff, he's against all this shit as much as anyone so leave it out eh ?

Thanks mate.     Listen, I'm an Irish republican, originally from a Proddy background in the North-western part of the Irish island.  The same town as Roger Casement as it happens.   I hate what has been done to our land for centuries by British overlords.   I hate the opression, starvation and murder of Irish people from Trevelyan (and you may know the song if you're proper Liverpool fans) to fucking soldiers A B and Paras C and D.   The English responsible like in Croke Park back then can fucking rot as far as I'm concerned.       England has a long and proud history of invading, killing, and then fucking off leaving everywhere in a worse condition I think.   And nowhere more than in Ireland.


I want every vestige of England gone from our island.  I want a socialist, free United country firmly in Europe.    I want nothing to do ever, with Thatcher, May, Rees Mogg or Johnson. I have nothing in common with them;  they hate me, and I despise them even more. 


But do I want an innocent woman killed?  Well who the fuck would think that?????


And yes I'm a proud (adopted for 30 years) Derryman.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #181 on: April 20, 2019, 06:28:20 pm »

I want every vestige of England gone from our island.

Do you speak Gaelic?

And obviously you'll be wanting the footy banned.  :D
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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #182 on: April 20, 2019, 07:10:28 pm »
Do you speak Gaelic?

And obviously you'll be wanting the footy banned.  :D

No more summer holidays for me either. :D

Offline Corkboy

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #183 on: April 20, 2019, 08:03:46 pm »
Do you speak Gaelic?

That’s a shibboleth right there. We just call it Irish.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #184 on: April 20, 2019, 08:10:12 pm »
That’s a shibboleth right there. We just call it Irish.

That's one way of avoiding the question!

And what's shibboleth in Irish? 
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #185 on: April 20, 2019, 10:28:47 pm »
I don’t know. What is it in English?

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #186 on: April 20, 2019, 10:34:14 pm »
I don’t know. What is it in English?

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #187 on: April 20, 2019, 10:36:25 pm »
I don’t know. What is it in English?

Shibboleth.

It's quite an ecumenical language.
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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #188 on: April 20, 2019, 10:36:41 pm »
And obviously you'll be wanting the footy banned.  :D

This was actually a Thing when I was growing up, Gaelic sports frowned on soccer as a foreign game.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #189 on: April 20, 2019, 10:37:54 pm »
This was actually a Thing when I was growing up, Gaelic sports frowned on soccer as a foreign game.

If only Croke Park relaxed the anti-English thing you might get to see the Mighty Reds play a European Cup final there one day. Me too.
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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #190 on: April 20, 2019, 10:48:36 pm »
The idiocy isn’t confined to one side. I had a soccer ref today tell me he didn’t believe in Gaelic games. I’m not sure if he was speaking literally.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #191 on: April 22, 2019, 05:19:13 pm »
This was actually a Thing when I was growing up, Gaelic sports frowned on soccer as a foreign game.
It still does, that hasn't really changed for a lot of GAA people.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #192 on: April 22, 2019, 09:29:00 pm »
It still does, that hasn't really changed for a lot of GAA people.

Where my club is, we sneer at the ruggers more.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #193 on: April 23, 2019, 12:36:29 pm »
It still does, that hasn't really changed for a lot of GAA people.

Not sure where you're from but that's not the case at all for where I'm from, which would have a long standing tradition of republicanism.

In relation to the abhorrent events over the weekend I'm not sure I have the words to describe how foolish those clowns are. Setting any process back years with shit like that.
So bloody what? If you watch football to be absolutely miserable then go watch cricket.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #194 on: April 23, 2019, 01:14:28 pm »
So the New IRA have come out and taken responsibility for this, offered their full and sincere apology and put in place measures to help ensure this doesn't happen again.

Any chance of them handing over the volunteers they say they deployed to attack the enemy?

I think not.
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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #195 on: April 23, 2019, 02:58:44 pm »
So the New IRA have come out and taken responsibility for this, offered their full and sincere apology and put in place measures to help ensure this doesn't happen again.

Any chance of them handing over the volunteers they say they deployed to attack the enemy?

I think not.

Not a chance  What they have came out with is pathetic. They offer their "full and sincere apologies to the partner, family and friends of Lyra McKee" - yet in the next sentence they say this
“On Thursday night, following an incursion on the Creggan by heavily armed British crown forces which provoked rioting, the IRA deployed our volunteers to engage,” it said.

So they offer full and sincere apologies, but they then try to place the blame at the Police ?

The next part is this
The statement, which was signed T O’Neill, added: “We have instructed our volunteers to take the utmost care in future when engaging the enemy, and put in place measures to help ensure this.”

How about not giving guns to teenagers that would be a start.
And let me add in someone else here.
I was talking with my cousin at the weekend. My Aunt lives just yards from where it happened, she was away on holiday, so my cousin who lives nearby went to check her house when she heard there was disturbances, she couldn't get back across to where she lives but what she told me happened next is quite remarkable.. (which has been said by many people)
When they fired at the police, not one Policeman was outside of the Jeep they were firing at. So they were firing at a bullet proof vehicle for heavens sake.
These so called hardliners, the older generation. Would they have done this, acted so recklessly?  I would say probably not, but then again they would never get their hands dirty. The issue is they are giving kids idea and guns, kids who are more than likely fascinated by the idea of having a gun, bragging to their mates and showing off to girls.
I'm sorry but if you do that, from a distance away, there's a very very strong possibility that you will catch an innocent person which is what happened.
An innocent person who moved here and called it home, who has said and written some beautiful things about the City.
There is a sea change , you can feel it. Many people who may have gave them a sympathetic ear previously are not doing so. It has been said that Police have been handed over 120 pieces of video footage which is remarkable.
If those sad sad events didn't occur and it was just rioting and cars burned (i say just but you know what I mean) , and Police asked for Video footage, they wouldn't get a single one.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #196 on: April 23, 2019, 03:03:04 pm »
Not a chance  What they have came out with is pathetic.

"It's not our fault. You forced us to do it."

The classic mantra of terrorists throughout the ages.
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #197 on: April 23, 2019, 03:05:40 pm »
"It's not our fault. You forced us to do it."

The classic mantra of terrorists throughout the ages.

Yip, You either a full and sincere apology or you don't. Although what the political party came out with a few days ago was nothing short of disgusting.

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #198 on: April 23, 2019, 03:09:38 pm »
Yip, You either a full and sincere apology or you don't. Although what the political party came out with a few days ago was nothing short of disgusting.

Which political party?

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Re: United Ireland v United Kingdom
« Reply #199 on: April 23, 2019, 03:27:48 pm »
Which political party?

Sorry they're not really a Political Party, Saoradh, they're a group of some sort, they said this, among other nonsense

"The inevitable reaction to such an incursion was resistance from the youth of Creggan. The blame for last night lies squarely at the feet of the British Crown Forces, who sought to grab headlines and engineered confrontation with the community.

"During this attack on the community, a Republican Volunteer attempted to defend people from the PSNI/RU"

Listen, I've seen the stuff that goes on, I've seen how the Police can act here but we're talking about this incident, and this

"The blame for last night lies squarely at the feet of the British Crown Forces"  and this
"During this attack on the community, a Republican Volunteer attempted to defend people from the PSNI/RU"

People do not need "defended" from the PSNI by 19 year olds firing guns at armored cars, and we all know who's solely to blame here.