Topic: The Labour Party (*)

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Seemed like the reporter was specifically asking him whether he could condemn the IRA as a group so I don't see how it's been reported as is wrong?

He did though as confirmed by The Guardian and anyone who has ears and listened to him.

So where is the condemnation of may for  meeting Netanyahu and the saudis?

Fake news. Those horrendous regimes are our friends (i.e. We sell them arms on civilian populaces).

[Alan_X]

So where is the condemnation of may for  meeting Netanyahu and the saudis?

What?

[SP]

So where is the condemnation of may for  meeting Netanyahu and the saudis?

Meeting heads of state whilst in office is an expected part of the job, even if they are objectionable.

Corbyn's past associations lack the defence of being his day job - not many of his foreign causes had much impact on life in Islington. They are being mightily spun by both sides, but equating them with ministerial trips is unsustainable.

[Fat Scouser]

To be honest ive been thinking about this as well , putting it bluntly, does calling someone a communist or IRA etc  just not hit home like it did 12 or 20 yrs ago, maybe not but he's got enough baggage to upset many people for different reasons. it might sound unfair but everyone's got their own personnel beliefs and they may not be connected to economic policys at all, there will be people refusing to vote Tory because of Fox hunting at this election.
Am not dismissing this as trivial am just making the point while we think savage cuts or Brexit are important others will put this as their most important consideration.

There was always going to be sticks to batter him with. But the Tories didn't even have to pick them up. When I first commented in here this morning, I seen a few posts knocking Corbyn for not reversing the welfare cuts.

Thatcher got her wish. We live in an economy, not a society anymore. The JAMS need to be pacified with lies. But after the last 7 years of nonstop life on benefits exposes, the useless eaters are bigger vote losers than threatening nuclear war on Russia.

It's bollocksed, mate. The old left/right divide is smoke and mirrors. I'm not some nutcase conspiracy theorist. The theories have been proved fact. A small pool of people and their corporations are getting a tighter and tighter grip on everything. Have a look at what the Bush family are doing with the water supplies and tables in America, both north and south.

That whole family should be in prison, along with the bankers that caused all this suffering.

George Bush appears on chat shows, looking under the couch for Weapons of Mass Destruction. Tony Blair is telling Labour voters not to vote for Corbyn. Our politicians are still debating on wether to take Sir Greed's knighthood back. Whack it out amongst the workers. A few minutes nobility for all to take their mind off the pensions he robbed.

It's fucked. And there was nothing much Corbyn could have done to fight it, anyway. But once he's gone, the only thing standing between American Free Trade and the NHS is Owen Smith and co.

[youll never walk alone it]

Well in mate.

[bigbonedrawky]

So where is the condemnation of may for  meeting Netanyahu and the saudis?

They're both trying to distance themselves by claiming they never met her.   

[CornerFlag]

Seemed like the reporter was specifically asking him whether he could condemn the IRA as a group so I don't see how it's been reported as is wrong?

“I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.”

Condemnation of the IRA.  Literally a quote by the man.

[Cliff Bastin]

He did though as confirmed by The Guardian and anyone who has ears and listened to him.

Fake news. Those horrendous regimes are our friends (i.e. We sell them arms on civilian populaces).

With equivalence. He obviously supported them. Everyone knows it.

[Yorkykopite]

Corbyn's fans went on about Smith and his Pfizer connections. It's a bit hypocritical to now complain about the Tories talking about Corbyn's IRA connections. This is the choice they made last year. This is the Labour party they have.

I'd rather take a prescription drug to be honest than a piece of shrapnel.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

“I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.”

Condemnation of the IRA.  Literally a quote by the man.

it took him a while to say that, couldn't bring himself to answer the question properly by bringing in the loyalists, just answer the question straight and say you condemn the ira's bombing and he's batted it away but he can't do that, maybe he can't handle the thought of not getting a Christmas card from Bobby sands this year

[Yorkykopite]

it took him a while to say that, couldn't bring himself to answer the question properly by bringing in the loyalists, just answer the question straight and say you condemn the ira's bombing and he's batted it away but he can't do that, maybe he can't handle the thought of not getting a Christmas card from Bobby sands this year

To see how poor that response is you have to imagine Corbyn answering the question "Do you condemn UDA violence" with the answer "I condemn all violence, and there was violence from the IRA too."

[redmark]

“I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.”

Condemnation of the IRA.  Literally a quote by the man.

SR: So can you condemn unequivocally the IRA?

JEREMY CORBYN: Look, bombing is wrong, of course all bombing is wrong, of course I condemn it.

SR: You are condemning all bombing but can you condemn the IRA without equating it to …?

JEREMY CORBYN: No, I think what you have to say is all bombing has to be condemned and you have to bring about a peace process.  Listen …

SR: But do you condemn the IRA?

JEREMY CORBYN: Wait a minute, can you allow me to finish please?  In the 1980s Britain was looking for a military solution in Ireland: it clearly was never going to work, ask anyone in the British Army at that time.  Therefore you have to seek a peace process.  You condemn the violence of those that laid bombs that killed large numbers of innocent people and I do.

SR: But can you condemn the IRA, who were responsible for …

JEREMY CORBYN: I just condemned all those that do bombing, all those on both sides.

SR: If you let me finish as well after I let you finish that would be appreciated.

JEREMY CORBYN: All those on both sides that laid bombs.

SR: But can you condemn the IRA who were responsible for 60% of the deaths during the Troubles with the British security services who were responsible for 10%?

JEREMY CORBYN: And there were Loyalist bombs as well which you haven’t mentioned.

SR: Yes, 30%.

JEREMY CORBYN: There were Loyalist bombs as well.  I condemn all the bombing by both the Loyalists and the IRA.


This is what allows Sky News etc to claim - 'Corbyn refuses 5/6 times...'.

Just say it in the first sentence.

And if we're going to be precise and semantic - because Corbyn certainly was - at no time did he infact condemn the IRA, full stop. He condemned bombing by the IRA. If the media really wanted to go for Corbyn, they'd ask him if he condemned so-called military operations conducted by the IRA against UK military targets. They'd ask him if he thought the IRA had a right to resist British occupation. Now that would be an interesting exchange.

[Baraka]

to be honest I wouldn't condemn family members of the people who got killed on bloody Sunday for going after paras. If my cousin or brother or father was killed in that way I would probably bare arms.

[oldfordie]

There was always going to be sticks to batter him with. But the Tories didn't even have to pick them up. When I first commented in here this morning, I seen a few posts knocking Corbyn for not reversing the welfare cuts.

Thatcher got her wish. We live in an economy, not a society anymore. The JAMS need to be pacified with lies. But after the last 7 years of nonstop life on benefits exposes, the useless eaters are bigger vote losers than threatening nuclear war on Russia.

It's bollocksed, mate. The old left/right divide is smoke and mirrors. I'm not some nutcase conspiracy theorist. The theories have been proved fact. A small pool of people and their corporations are getting a tighter and tighter grip on everything. Have a look at what the Bush family are doing with the water supplies and tables in America, both north and south.

That whole family should be in prison, along with the bankers that caused all this suffering.

George Bush appears on chat shows, looking under the couch for Weapons of Mass Destruction. Tony Blair is telling Labour voters not to vote for Corbyn. Our politicians are still debating on wether to take Sir Greed's knighthood back. Whack it out amongst the workers. A few minutes nobility for all to take their mind off the pensions he robbed.

It's fucked. And there was nothing much Corbyn could have done to fight it, anyway. But once he's gone, the only thing standing between American Free Trade and the NHS is Owen Smith and co.

Corbyn never reversed the welfare cuts though, Owen Smith did all the hard work to make this happen, it was a bit too complex for Corbyn. sorry but I felt sick the way Smith was booed by Corbyn supporters after all he did to fight the Tory welfare cuts while Corbyn stood smiling taking all the praise and applause when he did f...all.
 

[goalrushatgoodison]

SR: So can you condemn unequivocally the IRA?

JEREMY CORBYN: Look, bombing is wrong, of course all bombing is wrong, of course I condemn it.

SR: You are condemning all bombing but can you condemn the IRA without equating it to …?

JEREMY CORBYN: No, I think what you have to say is all bombing has to be condemned and you have to bring about a peace process.  Listen …

SR: But do you condemn the IRA?

JEREMY CORBYN: Wait a minute, can you allow me to finish please?  In the 1980s Britain was looking for a military solution in Ireland: it clearly was never going to work, ask anyone in the British Army at that time.  Therefore you have to seek a peace process.  You condemn the violence of those that laid bombs that killed large numbers of innocent people and I do.

SR: But can you condemn the IRA, who were responsible for …

JEREMY CORBYN: I just condemned all those that do bombing, all those on both sides.

SR: If you let me finish as well after I let you finish that would be appreciated.

JEREMY CORBYN: All those on both sides that laid bombs.

SR: But can you condemn the IRA who were responsible for 60% of the deaths during the Troubles with the British security services who were responsible for 10%?

JEREMY CORBYN: And there were Loyalist bombs as well which you haven’t mentioned.

SR: Yes, 30%.

JEREMY CORBYN: There were Loyalist bombs as well.  I condemn all the bombing by both the Loyalists and the IRA.


This is what allows Sky News etc to claim - 'Corbyn refuses 5/6 times...'.

Just say it in the first sentence.

And if we're going to be precise and semantic - because Corbyn certainly was - at no time did he infact condemn the IRA, full stop. He condemned bombing by the IRA. If the media really wanted to go for Corbyn, they'd ask him if he condemned so-called military operations conducted by the IRA against UK military targets. They'd ask him if he thought the IRA had a right to resist British occupation. Now that would be an interesting exchange.

Ahem. I don't think your right wing media would frame it quite like that.

[cloggypop]

“I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.”

Condemnation of the IRA.  Literally a quote by the man.

Apparently this isn't enough and he has to take sides or he's a traitor.

[redmark]

to be honest I wouldn't condemn family members of the people who got killed on bloody Sunday for going after paras. If my cousin or brother or father was killed in that way I would probably bare arms.

I get that. But neither of us is running for PM.

[SP]

“I condemn all the bombing by both the loyalists and the IRA.”

Condemnation of the IRA.  Literally a quote by the man.

A quote out of a painfully long context.

[damomad]

His stance was admirable in the past but his manner of response wasn't in the best interests of the party. A quick condemnation of the IRA followed by a statement on how it was a Labour government who oversaw the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement would have shut them up.

This is small slip in comparison with this weeks Tory wobbles but the press will try and use anything to even the playing field. Corbyn could learn a few things from May when it comes to dodging questions.

[redmark]

Apparently this isn't enough and he has to take sides or he's a traitor.

He did take sides. No one here has called him a traitor.

[bigbonedrawky]

it took him a while to say that, couldn't bring himself to answer the question properly by bringing in the loyalists, just answer the question straight and say you condemn the ira's bombing and he's batted it away but he can't do that, maybe he can't handle the thought of not getting a Christmas card from Bobby sands this year

Bobby Sands the dead hunger striker...That Bobby Sands ?

[TepidT2O]

He did take sides. No one here has called him a traitor.

Quite. He's just incapable of making it clear to the public...

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Bobby Sands the dead hunger striker...That Bobby Sands ?

think you missed the point I was making there

Apparently this isn't enough and he has to take sides or he's a traitor.

He was asked about the IRA not the loyalists who he was trying to use to justify what the IRA did

[Fat Scouser]

Corbyn never reversed the welfare cuts though, Owen Smith did all the hard work to make this happen, it was a bit too complex for Corbyn. sorry but I felt sick the way Smith was booed by Corbyn supporters after all he did to fight the Tory welfare cuts while Corbyn stood smiling taking all the praise and applause when he did f...all.
 

You're right mate, Smith did. But that's about all I can agree with. And I'm not too sure where the party would stand on austerity if Corbyn hadn't won both leadership contests. But I'm leaving it that now.

I shouldn't have came in, anyway. There's nothing I can say, that I haven't said before. Lovely to see all the young people becoming involved again, though. Poor bastards, they'll be inheriting it all. And as I've probably already said, if this is the result of Thatcherism, I hate to think what these kids will be facing in middle age and dotage.

Oh well, that's enough doom and gloom. Role on the 9th. Who knows, a few more weeks of strong stable wobbling, there might still be a straw left to grasp.

[gqP6w]

He was asked about the IRA not the loyalists who he was trying to use to justify what the IRA did

Think it was perfectly clear that he was condemning the actions of all groups that bombed.

It's only an issue on here because the usual suspects will use anything Corbyn does as a stick to beat him with.

Queue the aforementioned criticising me :-p

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Think it was perfectly clear that he was condemning the actions of all groups that bombed.

It's only an issue on here because the usual suspects will use anything Corbyn does as a stick to beat him with.

Queue the aforementioned criticising me :-p

he wasn't asked if he condemned all of them, just the one that he has links with and quite clearly supported in the 80s/90s.

Answer that question straight and the issue largely goes away, his failure to do so several times is why it's still an issue and why the Tories have a great attack line against him.

[OneTouchFooty]

He's been fortunate this IRA issue has been buried under the Tory clusterfuck of the past 2 days, he needs to nip this in the bud before Andrew Neil rips him apart over it, otherwise it'll create more unnecessary shite PR. Surely they can figure out the right response by now ffs.

[oldfordie]

You're right mate, Smith did. But that's about all I can agree with. And I'm not too sure where the party would stand on austerity if Corbyn hadn't won both leadership contests. But I'm leaving it that now.

I shouldn't have came in, anyway. There's nothing I can say, that I haven't said before. Lovely to see all the young people becoming involved again, though. Poor bastards, they'll be inheriting it all. And as I've probably already said, if this is the result of Thatcherism, I hate to think what these kids will be facing in middle age and dotage.

Oh well, that's enough doom and gloom. Role on the 9th. Who knows, a few more weeks of strong stable wobbling, there might still be a straw left to grasp.

I agree entirely FS, I honestly wouldn't have a bad word to say about Corbyn if he had come in and stopped the party moving to far to the right then just bowed out when the time was right,, it got so bad Labour MPs believed the public wanted these cuts. nobody wants cuts, even McDonnell made a better argument than some Labour MPs in favour of cuts. no cuts when theres an alternative.
This country faces far more problems than just a Tory government though.
Over the next few years people who said they were willing to pay the price for Brexit will be up in arms when the Torys inflict awful changes on our lives as a result of Brexit, they will protest the Tory cuts one day and the next day tell people who argue how disastrous Brexit is becoming to get over it.

[Red-Soldier]

He's been fortunate this IRA issue has been buried under the Tory clusterfuck of the past 2 days, he needs to nip this in the bud before Andrew Neil rips him apart over it, otherwise it'll create more unnecessary shite PR. Surely they can figure out the right response by now ffs.

Neil will have him over hot coals if he doesn't come out before hand and just nip it in the bud.

[redmark]

It's only an issue on here because the usual suspects will use anything Corbyn does as a stick to beat him with.

You've got this backwards: what is it that you think we have against Corbyn?

Many people on this thread believed Corbyn was the wrong person for the leadership, precisely because of issues like this. Precisely because of the question of judgement in his views in this area and/or that it exposes him to precisely this sort of attack. Look at the leadership threads from two years ago.

This is exactly not 'any excuse to attack Corbyn' - it's one of the key objections to him as leader in the first place.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Just watching the young Turks go on about how corbyn is doing, going fairly well until they praised the canary

[Alan_X]

As campaigning has been suspended there's no point having this opened. More important things happening this morning.

[Alan_X]

As campaigning is restarting we'll unlock this and the Election thread.

[Millie]

and the slagging off of the Tories thread?

[TepidT2O]

I do hope labour win this election, however the three leaders of the parties are all utterly hopeless.

[PoorScouser]

 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-poll-yougov-latest-jeremy-corbyn-tory-points-slashed-theresa-may-party-surge-a7756421.html

Honestly was not expecting further gains after the ones last week though will be keeping the corks in for now, as I am really expecting a reversal with Mondays events. Regardless of this poll and the gains made, we are still behind, and a major event such as this one will usually benefit the incumbent.

That said, maybe people will be rather pissed off about the cuts to police that COULD have prevented the sad events of Monday and turn against the Tories? Hope more than expectation there granted.

[filopastry]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-poll-yougov-latest-jeremy-corbyn-tory-points-slashed-theresa-may-party-surge-a7756421.html

Honestly was not expecting further gains after the ones last week though will be keeping the corks in for now, as I am really expecting a reversal with Mondays events. Regardless of this poll and the gains made, we are still behind, and a major event such as this one will usually benefit the incumbent.

That said, maybe people will be rather pissed off about the cuts to police that COULD have prevented the sad events of Monday and turn against the Tories? Hope more than expectation there granted.

I was very surprised that the polling gap didn't open up again after the horrible events in Manchester as well, I thought that would play reasonably well for the Tories, although there were some hints from Yougov that the numbers for a poll they were doing pre-attack might have been even better for Labour.

[It's Jimmy Corkhill]

Swings away from a Government in polls leading to an election aren't usually a trend, the wood-in-arse middle tend to "stick to the devil you know".

The polls over the next week will tell us whether they are with foundation or not.

[Alan_X]

and the slagging off of the Tories thread?

Oh yes. Will do.

[Fat Scouser]

Nobody to blame but himself.

Worst self defence since Guy Fawkes, the silly bastard. Of course, what we've done in the middle east has led to what's happening today. The whole thing has been a disaster since the crusades. But if he was going to take that course, he should have been ready for the flak and able to defend everything that was bound to get thrown at him.

Our kids getting killed in illegal war, bodies coming homes, chaos left behind,  lines of refugees headed here, suicide bombers in the lines, the cost of a useless nuclear missile, "nuclear primacy" theory foriegn policy, the rising threat "of winnable" nuclear war, how the money could be used to kit the troops properly instead of sending them the Army and Navy to buy boots, the lack of police, the chaos in the hospitals, funding them, combating extremism in the communities and prisons, the list goes on....

ridiculous to even mention it, but he had every right to bring up how we've ballsed up everything we've touched in the middle east for decades and how it's making matters worse. He had every right to bring up alternative policies. He had every right to give alternative answers. He could barely answer his own name. He's just fucked himself into the history books of Lord Haw Haw. And all of us into looking for private health insurance.

The message isn't wrong. It's the messenger. I don't apologise for a word I've said in here. Don't get old. Don't get young. Don't get ill. Don't stay here. Get off to fuck out of it, if that's a realistic option. New Zealand looks nice.