Author Topic: Alcohol Issues - The Carl van Riel Memorial Thread  (Read 1009778 times)

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #120 on: October 13, 2009, 08:17:19 pm »
well, FMOB. ( fuck my old boots ). I have had more support and help from my virtual friends than real life ones.  im drinking today and tomorro, my mate was buried today and another is buried tomorro so i need a drink to help. hard few days. but, yesterday i didnt have any, i went to the pub and drank coffee. it isnt easy at all but i feel ive actually acheived something. i started to think ill be Frank Gallagher. as for the demons that drive me, i really dont think i wanna go there. its not abuse etc but the thoughts that pull me under i just wanna suppress.

I found out that a mate died today as well, I'm shocked to say the least, fucking hell.
But I won't be reaching for the drink to deal with it, I'm taking it head on and trying to deal with it.  You KNOW you can deal with it by drinking, there's no glory in that, you've done that for ages.  How about proving you can deal with it sober, head-on, and prove to yourself how strong you really are.
Good luck.

Offline C

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #121 on: October 13, 2009, 08:17:51 pm »
Agree with Party Phil, recommending weed to someone with past mental health problems and is addicted to alcohol is just about the most stupid thing i've read on the internet, and there is alot.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #122 on: October 13, 2009, 08:27:45 pm »
Fuck me, I've heard it all now. Take up smoking illegal drugs to help you quit drinking. Jesus wept.

Weed is good for way too many things for you to be that dismissive about it. If it can make cancer patients and MS sufferers pain free and functional, who knows what it can do?

Offline C

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #123 on: October 13, 2009, 08:32:19 pm »
we do know what it can do, cause extreme paranoia and many other potentially harmful effects.

absolutely no reason why it should be recommended, cretinous
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #124 on: October 13, 2009, 08:34:57 pm »
absolutely no reason why it should be recommended, cretinous

Cretinous is the airy dismissal of a substance with proven and accepted therapeutic powers, which has made life bearable for millions of people where modern medicine had totally failed them.

we do know what it can do, cause extreme paranoia and many other potentially harmful effects.

Please list them.

Offline Party Phil

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #125 on: October 13, 2009, 08:38:16 pm »
Weed is good for way too many things for you to be that dismissive about it. If it can make cancer patients and MS sufferers pain free and functional, who knows what it can do?

OK, how about we recommend he starts using coke on a regular basis too? It's great for toothache so who knows what it can do? Or maybe he could have a dabble with Heroin? Fantastic painkiller and great if you've got a bit of a cough so there must be a pretty good chance it's a miracle cure for alcoholism as well!
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Offline MBL?

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #126 on: October 13, 2009, 08:40:35 pm »
I agree that weed makes you less likely to drink but the very reason why I wouldn't use it for that is it makes me a bit paranoid and I get fuck all day to day stuff done.

Offline MBL?

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #127 on: October 13, 2009, 08:42:08 pm »
OK, how about we recommend he starts using coke on a regular basis too? It's great for toothache so who knows what it can do? Or maybe he could have a dabble with Heroin? Fantastic painkiller and great if you've got a bit of a cough so there must be a pretty good chance it's a miracle cure for alcoholism as well!
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Offline waittillmay

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #128 on: October 13, 2009, 08:42:39 pm »
Program about drinkin too much on horizon bbc 2 at 9 tonight.    Also only on rawk would a guy who's probably an alcoholic be advised to start takin drugs to help. ;D

Offline Linton

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #129 on: October 13, 2009, 08:44:50 pm »
Don't want to rain on your parade, but SSRIs can cause weight gain, which could offset the gym stuff. If he can do without them, all the better.

I have seen both side of the coin as I have tried some of them. Some of them you do gain weight, some you don't. More often than not it's the feeling of normality that just gets to you and you relax a bit more about yourself. There is no substance in them that make you fat, rather substances that can increase your appetite.
I just know that they can be helpful to get a kick up the arse. It has worked for me. I know of the side effects as well but if I have to choose gaining a few pounds or drinking myself to death, I know what I would choose. Just an opinion of mine. The best advice should come from a good doctor.

Offline Corkboy

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #130 on: October 13, 2009, 08:48:14 pm »
OK, how about we recommend he starts using coke on a regular basis too? It's great for toothache so who knows what it can do? Or maybe he could have a dabble with Heroin? Fantastic painkiller and great if you've got a bit of a cough so there must be a pretty good chance it's a miracle cure for alcoholism as well!

Heroin is almost identical to morphine which is prescribed every day to millions. Why do you all have such hang ups about drugs? The legal ones are no different to the illegal ones, you just need to know what you're doing.

Here's a link to a case study done by a famous California psychiatrist (who was a cannabis supporter but also a respected medic) on the use of cannabis in treatment of selected alcoholics. The therapeutic effects of cannabis only kick in on small doses (basically, if you're high, you're doing it wrong) so no getting stoned.

I'm quite sure it's not for everyone and I'm certainly not recommending it but try to dial down the Daily Mail knee jerk "drugs are bad, m'kay".

Offline C

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #131 on: October 13, 2009, 08:54:31 pm »
i just made a really big post including links and everything, all very informative - then my internet browser just closed

weed can help some people, those with parkinsons, extreme constant pain, etc, recommending it to those with mental health problems sounds crazy to me - who are we to self medicate and decide we need 'x amount' of weed to survive.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #132 on: October 13, 2009, 08:55:38 pm »
I have seen both side of the coin as I have tried some of them. Some of them you do gain weight, some you don't. More often than not it's the feeling of normality that just gets to you and you relax a bit more about yourself. There is no substance in them that make you fat, rather substances that can increase your appetite.
I just know that they can be helpful to get a kick up the arse. It has worked for me. I know of the side effects as well but if I have to choose gaining a few pounds or drinking myself to death, I know what I would choose. Just an opinion of mine. The best advice should come from a good doctor.

That all makes sense, too, but I'm scared of SSRIs. Never had them although I know plenty who have, but from what I've seen and been told, they're not a fun time. Still, if they get you out the other end, who am I to judge?

Offline Party Phil

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #133 on: October 13, 2009, 09:03:10 pm »
Heroin is almost identical to morphine which is prescribed every day to millions. Why do you all have such hang ups about drugs? The legal ones are no different to the illegal ones, you just need to know what you're doing.

Here's a link to a case study done by a famous California psychiatrist (who was a cannabis supporter but also a respected medic) on the use of cannabis in treatment of selected alcoholics. The therapeutic effects of cannabis only kick in on small doses (basically, if you're high, you're doing it wrong) so no getting stoned.

I'm quite sure it's not for everyone and I'm certainly not recommending it but try to dial down the Daily Mail knee jerk "drugs are bad, m'kay".

My post was obviously very much tongue in cheek and I don't doubt that weed could help some people but I still think it's irresponsable to suggest any type of drugs to someone who has stated they can't / won't go to a doctor. HF needs to seek the help of a healthcare professional and ignore the amateur Betty Fords on here who, with all due respect, know fuck all about what medication will and won't work for him based on a very limited description of the problem.
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Offline Linton

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #134 on: October 13, 2009, 09:03:55 pm »
That all makes sense, too, but I'm scared of SSRIs. Never had them although I know plenty who have, but from what I've seen and been told, they're not a fun time. Still, if they get you out the other end, who am I to judge?

Yeah, I know what you mean. IF it's possible then you should not have any drugs at all, just go for exercise and sessions with a therapeut. Sometimes it needs a combination to get things up and running. Not sure about the weedthing myself, but then I'm no smoker with vast experience  :D.

Offline Sir Harvest Fields

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #135 on: October 13, 2009, 09:18:59 pm »
I found out that a mate died today as well, I'm shocked to say the least, fucking hell.
But I won't be reaching for the drink to deal with it, I'm taking it head on and trying to deal with it.  You KNOW you can deal with it by drinking, there's no glory in that, you've done that for ages.  How about proving you can deal with it sober, head-on, and prove to yourself how strong you really are.
Good luck.

im sorry to hear that mate. i like your blunt approach. it is as easy as that. just hard when it comes to doin it. and forn the record i dont do drugs. as in the drugs that are illegal. i think booze should be illegal lol
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Offline Rusty

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #136 on: October 14, 2009, 01:08:12 am »
i like your blunt approach. it is as easy as that. just hard when it comes to doin it.

Summed up in the Shawshank Redemption:

"You either get busy living, or you get busy dying".

Sounds like you've decided to get busy living mate and good on you.

Also a few posts back you mentioned that when you stopped having booze you were hot and couldn't sleep, that is probably a normal reaction, your body has been subjected to a huge amount of alcohol in the past, so when you stop it has a chance to clear some of the crap out of your system. It may feel shit at the time but it is one of the first steps on your body's road to recovery.
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Offline Rigga

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #137 on: October 14, 2009, 02:50:59 am »
All this friendly advice while RAWKites are still awaiting confirmation of the Rick Parry rumour?  There'll be some massive u-turns if it turns out to be true y'know.

Seriously, it makes a lot of sense coming on here to talk about it.  There's a great mix of relative anonymity and people who just tend to give a shit about people, making it easier to be that bit more honest with yourself and give you the confidence to do something about it in 'real life'.  Plus you're guaranteed a laugh between the serious bits and hardly anyone who supports a different team giving you advice - got to have some common ground afterall. 

Best of luck to you mate.

Offline billy-b

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #138 on: October 14, 2009, 12:02:33 pm »
Rick Parry rumour ???what have i missed :wave

Offline Dr Cornwallis

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #139 on: October 14, 2009, 12:53:33 pm »
Rick Parry rumour ???what have i missed :wave

Offline Rigga

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #140 on: October 14, 2009, 01:08:12 pm »
Rick Parry rumour ???what have i missed :wave


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Offline And Could He Play

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #141 on: October 14, 2009, 07:41:05 pm »
I have 8 cans a night almost every night, except when i've got the baby (twice a week), i never drink in the day unless special occasion. Am i an alcoholic?
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Offline Skinny

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #142 on: October 14, 2009, 08:00:39 pm »
I have 8 cans a night almost every night, except when i've got the baby (twice a week), i never drink in the day unless special occasion. Am i an alcoholic?

Yes
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Offline Party Phil

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #143 on: October 14, 2009, 08:10:21 pm »
I have 8 cans a night almost every night, except when i've got the baby (twice a week), i never drink in the day unless special occasion. Am i an alcoholic?

Not necessarily, could be you just drink way too much. If you feel like you need those cans every night instead of doing it out of choice and if you miss the drink when you go without then you're an alcoholic. But I'd guess the answer is probably, yes, you are.
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #144 on: October 14, 2009, 08:54:54 pm »
I have 8 cans a night almost every night, except when i've got the baby (twice a week), i never drink in the day unless special occasion. Am i an alcoholic?

Depends.

For me, speaking as someone who had a problem with drink, my simple answer is ask yourself whether you control the drink or it controls you.

Once you've lost control it is an addiction and it dictates you.
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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #145 on: October 14, 2009, 09:04:36 pm »
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Offline Sir Harvest Fields

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #146 on: October 15, 2009, 09:45:58 am »
Depends.

Once you've lost control it is an addiction and it dictates you.

is bang on. i was spending my day working out where to get money from for the nights booze. 8 cans for one person is nothing, to another it can kill them. everyone is different.
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #147 on: October 15, 2009, 10:20:35 am »
is bang on. i was spending my day working out where to get money from for the nights booze. 8 cans for one person is nothing, to another it can kill them. everyone is different.

You see this is where I worry about you.

You admit there that it is the booze that controls you. But have said this,

i dont want to quit, just drink say 2 times a week, for the footy etc.

To do that exhibits control. You admit you dont have that. If that is the case all that those couple of nights on the piss do is appease your addiction, but the addiction is still there and as such can blow up at anytime.

I did find the scenario you initially describe as strange as I have never met any alcoholics that could do what you were saying. That is what seperates heavy drinkers from alcoholics.
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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #148 on: October 15, 2009, 10:23:08 am »
is bang on. i was spending my day working out where to get money from for the nights booze. 8 cans for one person is nothing, to another it can kill them. everyone is different.

Sent you a PM mate.

Offline Roady

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #149 on: October 15, 2009, 10:40:46 am »
i used to drink every night. sometimes it would be about 6 cans nothing too major.Sometimes it would be a bottle of wine and 6 cans.Every night. I didnt think i was an alcoholic at all and i wasnt thiking about my next drink or anything,but looking back it does seem a bit heavy.Dont drink weeknights now,unless for the match butthen its usualy only about 6 pints. I make sure i have at least one good session a weekend though,sometimes friday and saturday night,usually just the one though. Its very easy to say im just having a couple of scoops after work etc to unwind,but when you look back it is rather excessive,maybe not an alcoholic, but excessive
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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #150 on: October 15, 2009, 11:33:53 am »
I have 8 cans a night almost every night, except when i've got the baby (twice a week), i never drink in the day unless special occasion. Am i an alcoholic?
according to official recommendations yes. But I'd say it depends on what type of drink and if you really need it.But its certainly on the way to becoming one.Although in my youth whilst serving in the RAF I drank every day and sometimes 7/8 pints in the week and at the weekend more.Now I only drink at weekends and then only a couple.Unless I'm in Liverpool or meeting up with people off RAWK of course.

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #151 on: October 15, 2009, 11:39:51 am »
You see this is where I worry about you.

You admit there that it is the booze that controls you. But have said this,

To do that exhibits control. You admit you dont have that. If that is the case all that those couple of nights on the piss do is appease your addiction, but the addiction is still there and as such can blow up at anytime.

I did find the scenario you initially describe as strange as I have never met any alcoholics that could do what you were saying. That is what seperates heavy drinkers from alcoholics.
Sadly its down to culture,if that the right word,in the UK* its not the norm to be able to go out for a couple of "soft" drinks where as in Belgium no one would bat an eyelid.

* Also in the US/Australia so I'm led to believe.

Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #152 on: October 15, 2009, 12:08:00 pm »
Sadly its down to culture

I put it down to addictive personalities myself but that's not to say the current drink culture in this coutry isn't unhealthy in my opinion.

But, cleaning up that culture is not going to solve the fundamental weakness of alcoholics whose problem is gene/personality based - take your pick but my point is it is internal whereas the culture is an external influence.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 12:20:02 pm by Johnnyboy1973 »
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Offline Sir Harvest Fields

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #153 on: October 15, 2009, 09:51:57 pm »
johnnyboy, i see what u r saying. and u r right. christ, u get help from the NHS to stop smoking but none for booze and as far as im concerned its just as bad a drug.
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Offline Corkboy

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #154 on: October 15, 2009, 10:38:32 pm »
johnnyboy, i see what u r saying. and u r right. christ, u get help from the NHS to stop smoking but none for booze and as far as im concerned its just as bad a drug.

Smoking's much more black and white, there is nothing to redeem it (and I'm a smoker). Most people who drink, on the other hand, don't have a problem.

Both me and the Mrs drink moderately on an almost daily basis, lots of people I know do. I have plenty of friends, on the other hand, who would be horrified at the thought of having a drink every day, but think nothing of going to the pub on a Friday and having six drinks. I know people who only drink in the pub and people who only drink at home.

You always hear people saying that if you need a drink, you have a problem, but I don't buy that at all. The more pertinent question is, does your drinking adversely affect the rest of your life? I mean, I know retired people who have a couple of pints before dinner (or a spritzer - for the laydee), wine with dinner and maybe a nip or two of whiskey before bed and they do this every day. But they're active and enjoying their days too so it's silly to say they have a problem.

I reckon if you're productive and active and not a complete prick, you can drink all you want. Hard thing to do, though, especially as you get older. When I was younger, I did a lot of drinking. Couple of pints once or twice during the week, then out for ten or twelve pints Thursday (college night out) and again, Friday or Saturday, sometimes Sunday, too. I had a part time job when I was in college and I was still living at home so I could afford it.

Now that I think of it, it was the arrival of the boy that convinced me hangovers were no longer such a good idea, but I reckon it would have happened anyway. I still have a few extra beers on a Friday night but when you have to be up for under 9 hurling the following morning, it's not the same.

Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #155 on: October 15, 2009, 11:02:41 pm »
johnnyboy, i see what u r saying. and u r right. christ, u get help from the NHS to stop smoking but none for booze and as far as im concerned its just as bad a drug.

Hmm, is it as physically addictive as smoking? Having given up a thirty a day habit and having smoked for 15 years I would say no. You will notice it yourself. Now, that you are not drinking every day and slowly but surely getting the alcohol out of your system, the problem isn't the physical withdrawal it's the mental one.

If you accept what I am saying. In that once it controls you it is now an addiction as oppossed to I drink too much and need to cut back then there is only one solution and that is to stop drinking altogether.

That's a scary thought - imagine you're life without alcohol - FOREVER!

I knew I had a problem. Looking back my problem was there from a very young age. But that thought, no alcohol. Fuck that. What else are you meant to do. I couldn't get my head around that. Always convinced myself I could control it. And I would. For a period. Then the wheels come of as they always do because it controlled me.

But, it can be done 'cos I'm doing it - during a period in my life when I am experiencing stress and upheaval like never before. But, I still dont drink. Now when I think of that thought I think fooking great. No booze, no fags, no weed (that was a fucking long addiction as well) - bloody marvellous.

Anyway, I'm sidetracking. Come back to this  - imagine you're life without alcohol. Until you do and you accept it - in my opinion you will struggle.
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Offline Sir Harvest Fields

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #156 on: October 15, 2009, 11:10:51 pm »


That's a scary thought - imagine you're life without alcohol - FOREVER!


i want to. i really do. but i feel i need that release now and again from reality that booze offers me
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #157 on: October 15, 2009, 11:22:43 pm »
i want to. i really do. but i feel i need that release now and again from reality that booze offers me

Know exactly what you're saying. Said the same myself. But, reality aint that bad (even if it is it still has to be dealt with) and you're recognition of it isn't level as you are looking at it through pissed, half pissed eyes.............for years.

And is your pissed reality that great? It makes you depressed, has cost you your marriage thus far and appears to be difficult (or a sacrifice) financially to support it. Without doubt it will have had other negatives with regards to family and friends. It always does.

I've said the same. Then I came to the conclusion that life is what it is. It can be mundane, a grind, not what I imagined growing up. But, it can be like that drunk or sober.

I will say you, with all due respect, you're kidding yourself. As I hinted at, that blitz every now and then - that's your addiction raising it's ugly head. I had it, for me the last hurdle. I'd got drinking down, over many many years, from every day to a binge every ten weeks or so. But, fuck what a binge and god help ya if you were in my path whether friend or foe, family or stranger.

But, hey I may be wrong and a binge every now and then will lead to nothing more. Let us know how you get on.
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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #158 on: October 15, 2009, 11:22:44 pm »
I put it down to addictive personalities myself but that's not to say the current drink culture in this coutry isn't unhealthy in my opinion.

But, cleaning up that culture is not going to solve the fundamental weakness of alcoholics whose problem is gene/personality based - take your pick but my point is it is internal whereas the culture is an external influence.

This is more of the line I am coming from. Both my granddad and my dad had semi-addictive personalites and drank too much on occasions. I see the same in myself and I fear for my kid. I think whats rescued the males in my families is getting into relationships/committing issues which we couldn't/cant or don't want to get out - fortunately it puts a brake on the drinking but its pretty scary..
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Offline Johnnyboy1973

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Re: Alcohol Issues
« Reply #159 on: October 15, 2009, 11:27:44 pm »
Both my old man and his had drink problems. They were also married long term and to be honest their addiction for large parts of their lives caused long and arduous problems for their partner and their offspring.
Where's this Yakimoto fella?