Topic: DC Mega Topic, it's not the MCU

[tubby]

There's a clip going round of him in character and he looks like he's lost a fair bit of weight for the role.  I think he's a good choice for the part, if a little old, but I'm interested to see what they do with it.

[Buck Pete]

This new Joker film could be excellent with Joaquin Phoenix portraying him.

Discussing this with the lad last night. Really looking forward to it. Phoenix is turning into a mighty fine actor.  Great casting on the face of it IMO but we shall see this time next year.

I am SO excited for 'Venom' in 2 weeks.  A 47 year old bloke should not be like a kid waiting for Christmas but god I am.

[Nessy76]

Whole lot of fuss about Batman's cock at the moment.

Yes, you read that right. No, I don't mean a male chicken. Batman got his nob out in a recent "mature readers" title. There was a backlash, the art has been doctored and the comic pulled. Copies featuring Batman's "other sidekick" are likely to see a dramatic increase in value as collectors swoop to buy them up.

No, I'm not making this up.

[tubby]

Wut.

[AndyMuller]

Whole lot of fuss about Batman's cock at the moment.

Yes, you read that right. No, I don't mean a male chicken. Batman got his nob out in a recent "mature readers" title. There was a backlash, the art has been doctored and the comic pulled. Copies featuring Batman's "other sidekick" are likely to see a dramatic increase in value as collectors swoop to buy them up.

No, I'm not making this up.

I've seen it.

He's packing that's for sure.

[Nessy76]

Comic artist Chip Zdarsky has offered on twitter:

"If you see me at a show and have a Batman comic with you, I will give  him a penis through the entire issue. That is my promise to you, the fans."

[Brian Blessed]

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1043184578616147968/pu/img/N_VlvXsQKmX5MqG0?format=jpg&name=small

[Something Worse]

The other Joker movie is half Bad Santa and half This Is Us, in case this Phoenix stuff gave you any semblance of hope.

(Disclaimer: Bad Santa is one of my favorite comedies)

[coolbyrne]

Whole lot of fuss about Batman's cock at the moment.

Yes, you read that right. No, I don't mean a male chicken. Batman got his nob out in a recent "mature readers" title. There was a backlash, the art has been doctored and the comic pulled. Copies featuring Batman's "other sidekick" are likely to see a dramatic increase in value as collectors swoop to buy them up.

No, I'm not making this up.

As far as I know, the comic hasn't been pulled, but it has sold out. I've got a Jim Lee variant (at cover price), but that was because I told my comic shop guy to set a copy aside a month ago, not because of BatPeen. The response has been ridiculous, none moreso than from DC themselves, who have said they will blur the shot in any digital copies, and when the issue gets reprinted, they won't include/will blur that panel. Listen, the whole point of the 'Black Label' was sold as an 'HBO version' of Batman. How much darker can Batman get, if you take away the nudity option? (Don't get me wrong- while the panel wasn't gratuitous, it wasn't necessarily important, either. So I'm okay with the no nudity route.) There's a Black Label Wonder Woman coming up, but now, of course, we all know there will be no nudity. Or will there? Because there always seems to be a double standard when it comes to male nudity vs. female nudity. Such a big deal over nothing.

Not sure what I think of a Joker movie. One one hand, he's one of the few major villains who doesn't have an origin story and I kind of like it that way, because whatever they come up with will be the official story. On the other, that clown image of Joaquin Phoenix is brilliant, and the trailer was what every trailer should be- teasing and intriguing. (Will say, when I started singing along to the song, my wife said, "You know this song?" I told her, at my age, if I didn't, I'd probably get thrown out of Canada. The Guess Who gets a song in one of the most anticipated movies of 2019? Damn right I know the song.  )

[Sheer Magnetism]

Do you mean in the films? Because he definitely has an origin story in the comics. As for Batpeen, I thought it was a terrible idea. Adult imprint or not, no one needs (or wants?) to see a superhero's dick, especially one who's still starring in kid's cartoons and movie franchises. There's a pretty firm line between adult content and stuff that's sleazy and weird, and whoever was overseeing editorial on that needs to take a big step back because they overshot that line by a long way.

[coolbyrne]

Do you mean in the films? Because he definitely has an origin story in the comics. As for Batpeen, I thought it was a terrible idea. Adult imprint or not, no one needs (or wants?) to see a superhero's dick, especially one who's still starring in kid's cartoons and movie franchises. There's a pretty firm line between adult content and stuff that's sleazy and weird, and whoever was overseeing editorial on that needs to take a big step back because they overshot that line by a long way.

He hasn't had a definitive origin story in the comics. It took Bill Finger 10 years to write the "fell into a vat of acid and his face stayed that way" story, but it's been rewritten many, many times since 1951. I just worry a movie origin story will become the definitive origin, rather than become just one of many we've been given over the years.

Yeah, the penis shot was entirely unnecessary. It doesn't bother me that there's a kids' Batman and an adult version. Like the Marvel "Max" line, it's done so that a very clear line is drawn between those two versions. But that panel was made specifically to get people talking; it could have easily been in shadow or the panel done entirely different. It did nothing to progress the story. I did laugh at the fact we see his ass twice and no one is wringing their hands, wondering why no one is thinking about the children. 

[AndyMuller]

New image of the Joker.

[Sheer Magnetism]

Yeah, the penis shot was entirely unnecessary. It doesn't bother me that there's a kids' Batman and an adult version. Like the Marvel "Max" line, it's done so that a very clear line is drawn between those two versions. But that panel was made specifically to get people talking; it could have easily been in shadow or the panel done entirely different. It did nothing to progress the story. I did laugh at the fact we see his ass twice and no one is wringing their hands, wondering why no one is thinking about the children. 

I don't think you can really compare it to MAX, as that line used characters like Punisher, Luke Cage and Deadpool who (at the time anyway) were primarily adult characters anyway. Obviously, the usage of some characters can be elastic, but I think selling, say, Lego Batman or Justice League Action to 10 year olds while the latest Batman comic has a graphic dick shot is stretching that a bit far. That's not to say it's objectively worse than the depraved violence you see in a lot of Batman books, just that the juxtaposition was more ill thought out.

In any case, I'm not sure what the overall point of the book really is. I feel like Batman's inner psyche has been gone over so thoroughly over the past few years that there probably isn't anything left to say. And the Metal books just did a huge Batman story that will probably be darker than this anyway.

[Nessy76]

Do you mean in the films? Because he definitely has an origin story in the comics. As for Batpeen, I thought it was a terrible idea. Adult imprint or not, no one needs (or wants?) to see a superhero's dick, especially one who's still starring in kid's cartoons and movie franchises. There's a pretty firm line between adult content and stuff that's sleazy and weird, and whoever was overseeing editorial on that needs to take a big step back because they overshot that line by a long way.

Lot of people very upset that it won't feature in future editions, so there are definitely some who want to see it. Need? Who needs anything from a Batman comic?

Comics feature female nudity a lot of the time, it's fascinating how so many people have a double standard here.

[coolbyrne]

I don't think you can really compare it to MAX, as that line used characters like Punisher, Luke Cage and Deadpool who (at the time anyway) were primarily adult characters anyway. Obviously, the usage of some characters can be elastic, but I think selling, say, Lego Batman or Justice League Action to 10 year olds while the latest Batman comic has a graphic dick shot is stretching that a bit far. That's not to say it's objectively worse than the depraved violence you see in a lot of Batman books, just that the juxtaposition was more ill thought out.

In any case, I'm not sure what the overall point of the book really is. I feel like Batman's inner psyche has been gone over so thoroughly over the past few years that there probably isn't anything left to say. And the Metal books just did a huge Batman story that will probably be darker than this anyway.

Eh, not sure we can come down on Black Label Batman for being too mature for the Lego crowd when the movies are just as questionable for 10 year olds. You have read The Killing Joke, right? It seems it's only when there is nudity (and often, only male nudity) that people start thinking about the children. If you (general 'you', not you in particular) don't want your 10 year old to not see a drawn penis that is mostly obscured in the dark, that's on you as a parent. And if you think they haven't already seen one, drawn or otherwise, you might be fooling yourself.

And let's be honest,  it's not graphic. He's not banging Catwoman in a full page panel. It's this-

Spoiler

[close]

Which is why I said it wasn't necessary. They're going to darken the area in future editions and the change will be so unremarkable that it makes one wonder why they bothered in the first place.

And I agree with Nessy.  Comics have long been oversexuaIizing women forever. The Hawkeye Initiative (http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com) is an amusing look at this double standard. Or are hard nipple/camel toe shots okay, but a mostly obscured penis is one dick too far?

[Something Worse]

Lot of people very upset that it won't feature in future editions, so there are definitely some who want to see it. Need? Who needs anything from a Batman comic?

Comics feature female nudity a lot of the time, it's fascinating how so many people have a double standard here.

I've never seen any myself, when has that been the case?

[Sheer Magnetism]

Eh, not sure we can come down on Black Label Batman for being too mature for the Lego crowd when the movies are just as questionable for 10 year olds. You have read The Killing Joke, right? It seems it's only when there is nudity (and often, only male nudity) that people start thinking about the children. If you (general 'you', not you in particular) don't want your 10 year old to not see a drawn penis that is mostly obscured in the dark, that's on you as a parent. And if you think they haven't already seen one, drawn or otherwise, you might be fooling yourself.

Unless you're honestly A-OK with full frontal nudity in kids media, whether or not a child has seen a penis in real life is irrelevant. I'm saying it's gross and sleazy to overtly sexualise a character that you're also using to front a wide range of children's media. The difference between violence and sexuality is that a lot more children are subject to grooming and sexual abuse than they are to mutilation or murder, which is why people in general have more of a problem with it. It's more likely to be normalised. If it was a more obscure character (for argument's sake, Guy Gardner or even Martian Manhunter) it would be less of an issue, but there's only so far you can stretch a character.

As for equality, I'm yet to see Wonder Woman or Power Girl's nips or genitals in a DC book. That would also be sleazy and badly thought out, though we both know DC would never have the cojones to to that in the current climate.

[coolbyrne]

I've never seen any myself, when has that been the case?

Lots of Alan Moore- 'Lost Girls', 'Watchmen'. The Spectre. The aforementioned 'The Killing Joke'. Vertigo is a more adult line for DC so you see it more there. 'Fables'. 'Sandman'.

(When I say 'more', I don't mean regularly. Just more likely.)

[Something Worse]

Lots of Alan Moore- 'Lost Girls', 'Watchmen'. The Spectre. The aforementioned 'The Killing Joke'. Vertigo is a more adult line for DC so you see it more there. 'Fables'. 'Sandman'.

(When I say 'more', I don't mean regularly. Just more likely.)

I've read Watchmen and Killing Joke and don't remember nudity, but it has been years. I'll take your word for it.

[tubby]

Isn't Manhattan's dick on show in Watchmen too, or have I remembered dicks wrong again?  Definitely remember Barbara Gordon exposed in The Killing Joke.

[coolbyrne]

Unless you're honestly A-OK with full frontal nudity in kids media, whether or not a child has seen a penis in real life is irrelevant. I'm saying it's gross and sleazy to overtly sexualise a character that you're also using to front a wide range of children's media. The difference between violence and sexuality is that a lot more children are subject to grooming and sexual abuse than they are to mutilation or murder, which is why people in general have more of a problem with it. It's more likely to be normalised. If it was a more obscure character (for argument's sake, Guy Gardner or even Martian Manhunter) it would be less of an issue, but there's only so far you can stretch a character.

As for equality, I'm yet to see Wonder Woman or Power Girl's nips or genitals in a DC book. That would also be sleazy and badly thought out, though we both know DC would never have the cojones to to that in the current climate.

How is a partially obscured penis overtly sexualizing Batman?

[Something Worse]

Isn't Manhattan's dick on show in Watchmen too, or have I remembered dicks wrong again?  Definitely remember Barbara Gordon exposed in The Killing Joke.

His giant blue radioactive cock was probably the only nudity I remember in comics.

[coolbyrne]

Isn't Manhattan's dick on show in Watchmen too, or have I remembered dicks wrong again?  Definitely remember Barbara Gordon exposed in The Killing Joke.

Right on both counts. Barbara Gordon is particularly troubling, as... it pertains to the Joker and has permanent consequences. (What's the time limit on spoilers?)

[coolbyrne]

 

His giant blue radioactive cock was probably the only nudity I remember in comics.

(Sorry, something about your phrasing made me giggle.)

[surfer. Fuck you generator.]

Lot of people very upset that it won't feature in future editions, so there are definitely some who want to see it. Need? Who needs anything from a Batman comic?

Comics feature female nudity a lot of the time, it's fascinating how so many people have a double standard here.

Yeah, it's something that stands out like an errr sore thumb, in entertainment generally. If it's ok to show a full frontal of a girl then it's ok to show the guy too. A cock is natural, the clothing isn't! Once any film / media has the required rating and specifices the target age, these things shouldn't even be an issue to worry about imo yet as far as I can remember nudity in mainstream media is generally women baring all and the guys showing their butts at most.

[Nessy76]

I've never seen any myself, when has that been the case?

Since Robert Crumb at least. You never read Sin City? Sandman? Swamp Thing? Saga? Promethea? The Invisibles? (Most of which are well worth reading regardless of the nudity, BTW!) Some of those titles do feature male and female nudity, but it is far more common with female characters.

[Beav]

If I remember rightly, theres no explicit nudity in The Killing Joke, its just implied sexual abuse of Barbara.

[Nessy76]

If I remember rightly, theres no explicit nudity in The Killing Joke, its just implied sexual abuse of Barbara.

Some people have concluded that there is a sexual assault, but that's not what happens on the page. You do get to see Gordon's bum, though.

[Something Worse]

If I remember rightly, theres no explicit nudity in The Killing Joke, its just implied sexual abuse of Barbara.

Google says you can see her bare breast (with an image to back it up) but I don't remember that either.

[Brian Blessed]

Batman has sex with Batgirl in a fairly recent DCAU film. I’d say that would get exposed to kids a lot more than the comic. It was weird and pointless, and for me worse than seeing the batpole.

[Nessy76]

Batman has sex with Batgirl in a fairly recent DCAU film. I’d say that would get exposed to kids a lot more than the comic. It was weird and pointless, and for me worse than seeing the batpole.

That was the adaptation of the Killing Joke, and it didn't happen in the original. A weird decision that didn't make much sense.

[B0151?]

Joker and Harley Quinn Spinoff Writers Reveal First Details of New Movie

"It is great," Ficarra told Metro. "The whole thing starts with Harley kidnapping Dr Phil. Played by Dr Phil hopefully. Because her and the Joker are having problems with their relationship."

[coolbyrne]

Some people have concluded that there is a sexual assault, but that's not what happens on the page. You do get to see Gordon's bum, though.

The nudity is in the photos the Joker takes of Barbara Gordon.

Joker and Harley Quinn Spinoff Writers Reveal First Details of New Movie

"It is great," Ficarra told Metro. "The whole thing starts with Harley kidnapping Dr Phil. Played by Dr Phil hopefully. Because her and the Joker are having problems with their relationship."

I, too, have problems with their relationship.

[El Lobo]

Joker and Harley Quinn Spinoff Writers Reveal First Details of New Movie

"It is great," Ficarra told Metro. "The whole thing starts with Harley kidnapping Dr Phil. Played by Dr Phil hopefully. Because her and the Joker are having problems with their relationship."

Uh....yeah

[Nessy76]

The nudity is in the photos the Joker takes of Barbara Gordon.

Yes. There is a shot of a photo that shows her breasts in the background. In some readers' minds this indicates that the Joker actually raped her, although there is no real evidence of that in itself. Alan Moore has, of course, since disavowed the story, although it is a classic, it is a bit of a mess politically for various reasons. (My biggest issue with it is that they added an exclamation mark to the Joker's "SMILE" on the cover when they reprinted it, and it's been there ever since. Totally undercuts the creepiness of the whole thing.)

[coolbyrne]

DC has confirmed there will be no reprints of Batman:Damned #1, and both #2 and #3 are now pushed back, leading me to wonder what they're having to re-do.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/09/27/dc-comics-reprint-batman-damned-1-2-late/

[my usenme changed?]

DC has confirmed there will be no reprints of Batman:Damned #1, and both #2 and #3 are now pushed back, leading me to wonder what they're having to re-do.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/09/27/dc-comics-reprint-batman-damned-1-2-late/

Will be one hell of a collector's item in years to come!

[Nessy76]

Will be one hell of a collector's item in years to come!

That's why you bought one? 

[my usenme changed?]

That's why you bought one? 

Er.... yeah... thats why.... 

[Agent99]

Why the obsession with The Joker? Never understood it. I'm not a comic book reader but there are three films in development based around him and I don't get it.