Topic: The Impact of COVID 19 on Sport...

[jillcwhomever]

According to Belgian news the Bundesliga are planning on restarting on May 19 behind closed doors.

That is interesting news.

[Statto Red]

Premier League warns PFA of £762m penalty if season is voided
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52168692

[rob1966]

Premier League warns PFA of £762m penalty if season is voided
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52168692

Good.

If the other clubs do fuck us over, I hope we move heaven and earth to either get individual TV deals or start a superleague. You don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg, most of the Prem clubs leech off of us and Man Utd's global popularity and they need to remember that.

[Dim Glas]

That is interesting news.

It's news from about 4 days ago, it was first reported in Kicker, the CEO of the DFL Christian Seifert said they hoped to get the league finished by end of June, but he also said there's every chance it would be later.

A lot of German teams are going to be in huge financial trouble soon, including 1 of the smaller Bundesliga club, not sure if that is partly fueling it. Although of course playing behind closed doors doesn't really help that, as they won't get the much needed revenue.

[Raid]

Good.

If the other clubs do fuck us over, I hope we move heaven and earth to either get individual TV deals or start a superleague. You don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg, most of the Prem clubs leech off of us and Man Utd's global popularity and they need to remember that.

Yep, the beauty of the Premier League is the even split of TV revenue. Us and Man Utd could easily point to the set up Real Madrid and Barcelona enjoy in Spain with their individual deals

[Son of Spion]

Good.

If the other clubs do fuck us over, I hope we move heaven and earth to either get individual TV deals or start a superleague. You don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg, most of the Prem clubs leech off of us and Man Utd's global popularity and they need to remember that.

I agree. If the Premier League makes the wrong decision on this, it cuts its own throat.

Liverpool and the Mancs are who the wider audience always want to see. Who wants to watch Brighton v Norwich? No disrespect to those clubs, but not that many outside of their respective fanbases. They will, however, tune in for Liverpool v Norwich and Brighton v Liverpool. Without the likes of us, the product loses a massive amount of its appeal.

If we get screwed over, then all bets are off as far as a Super League and our own TV rights are concerned.

[thejbs]

We're not, though. The govt is paying 80%, the club 20% of wages.

It’s pretty shameful, still. Our club and owners are wealthy enough to pay 100% of the wages of low-level workers for 3 months without government assistance.

I criticised other teams for it and I criticise ours.

[norecat]

If Eddie Howe and Graham Potter can publicly state they are taking pay cuts what's to stop Jurgen??

[Dim Glas]

If Eddie Howe and Graham Potter can publicly state they are taking pay cuts what's to stop Jurgen??

cos it isn't a competition?

Who knows what he's doing. Jürgen Klopp gives a portiton of his salary very month to charity, amongst other charitable donations, he may be doing something now too, but hasn't as yet shouted it from the rooftops. And if he isn't - so what, it's the club who are at fault here, not the manager or players. 

[jillcwhomever]

If Eddie Howe and Graham Potter can publicly state they are taking pay cuts what's to stop Jurgen??

Talks at the club are ongoing, maybe wait until they reach their conclusions?

[Ray K]

It’s pretty shameful, still. Our club and owners are wealthy enough to pay 100% of the wages of low-level workers for 3 months without government assistance.

I criticised other teams for it and I criticise ours.

I think it's fairly shitty too, but at least none of our employees will be out of pocket, which can't be said about Spurs and Newcastle. Elsewhere seemed to think they would be out of pocket.

[Samie]

If Eddie Howe and Graham Potter can publicly state they are taking pay cuts what's to stop Jurgen??

It's not a pissing contest though. Why does it even have to be announced that he has or hasn't ?

[norecat]

It's not a pissing contest though. Why does it even have to be announced that he has or hasn't ?

I agree it's not a contest but it's about showing solidarity with millions of people who are now unemployed for an indeterminate period of time. The use of the Furlough scheme has brought a lot of heat on the club so it shows optics are important. Optics works both ways.

The public is rightly incensed that players and managers at Premier League clubs are getting their full wage in the middle of a pandemic which has had catastrophic consequences for the country. The players are earning full wages without even playing. It's farcical and makes the use of the Furlough scheme all the more obscene.

Any measure which helps show solidarity with the public needs to be communicated clearly. It is not about oneupmanship it's about showing solidarity with the public in extraordinary times.

[Dim Glas]

I agree it's not a contest but it's about showing solidarity with millions of people who are now unemployed for an indeterminate period of time.

So this has nothing to do with Liverpool FC's news today then, you just think all rich and famous people whatever the field they are in should now take pay cuts?  Who does that help?

The players/staff want to do something - let them contribute to charities, as they are already.

 

[norecat]

So this has nothing to do with Liverpool FC's news today then, you just think all rich and famous people whatever the field they are in should now take pay cuts?  Who does that help?

The players/staff want to do something - let them contribute to charities, as they are already.

First off I have not mentioned anything about all rich and famous people. This is a LFC forum. The club is asking the Govt to help pay wages of some of their employees. Think about that and then re read your quoted entry on this topic!

[Dim Glas]

The club is asking the Govt to help pay wages of some of their employees. Think about that and then re read your quoted entry on this topic!

you literally just said:
'I agree it's not a contest but it's about showing solidarity with millions of people who are now unemployed for an indeterminate period of time.'

What has that to do with what LFC are doing? 

And in reply to your edited post, yes what the club is doing is shit, but why you are linking that with the fact Jürgen Klopp hasn't made a bit statement about taking a pay cut is what is confusing here.  The club can afford to pay it's staff.

[norecat]

you literally just said:
'I agree it's not a contest but it's about showing solidarity with millions of people who are now unemployed for an indeterminate period of time.'

What has that to do with what LFC are doing? 

And in reply to your edited post, yes what the club is doing is shit, but why you are linking that with the fact Jürgen Klopp hasn't made a bit statement about taking a pay cut is what is confusing here.  The club can afford to pay it's staff.

Clearly it can't if it's using the furlough scheme! I would be very proud of Klopp and the playing staff if they had come forward to say they were taking a pay cut in these extraordinary times. It may yet happen. Who knows.

[Peabee]

I still blame the government for creating the loophole. Businesses have been looking for loopholes in legislations since the beginning of government.

It stinks (especially when im not entitled to any help while premier league clubs are ), but I see every club looking at it.

Of course, their accountants would have started the process straight away.

[Samie]

It can mate, they're being dicks though. Morally its' wrong but its' not illegal what they are doing.

[Dim Glas]

Clearly it can't if it's using the furlough scheme!

Of course they can.

They are choosing to use a scheme available to them, nothing wrong with that really, but it just stinks for a club of this size, with the money it has, with the owners it has, to be doing it.

[thejbs]

So this has nothing to do with Liverpool FC's news today then, you just think all rich and famous people whatever the field they are in should now take pay cuts?  Who does that help?

The players/staff want to do something - let them contribute to charities, as they are already.

The players could take a (tiny) pay cut in order to pay the wages of lower-level non-playing staff who have temporarily lost their jobs, rather than have the taxpayer pick up the tab.

It's really that simple.

[norecat]

The players could take a (tiny) pay cut in order to pay the wages of lower-level non-playing staff who have temporarily lost their jobs, rather than have the taxpayer pick up the tab.

It's really that simple.

Morally that would be the right thing to do. Why it hasn't happened and if it does why it has taken so long is simply indefensible.

[norecat]

Of course they can.

They are choosing to use a scheme available to them, nothing wrong with that really, but it just stinks for a club of this size, with the money it has, with the owners it has, to be doing it.

As you understand it can employee be put on furlough and still completely paid by their employer or does it as your post suggests the Govt picks up a portion of the tab?

[Legs]

The money people at the club are to blame for this nobody else.

Klopp and Henderson will no doubt contribute dont be surprised to see this news break in the next 48 hours I mean several players off other clubs have said Hendo has been trying to set things up.

I am of the opinion the very wealthy people around the world should be helping their countries out I know some will say they dont have to which is corrrect but morally its the right thing to do if I was a billionaire I couldnt live with myself if I sat and did nothing.

[L4Red]

The players could take a (tiny) pay cut in order to pay the wages of lower-level non-playing staff who have temporarily lost their jobs, rather than have the taxpayer pick up the tab.

It's really that simple.

They really shouldn't have to. I'm not defending their wages because we all know they're obscene but the club can afford to pay all staff and nobody take a pay cut

The players should be deferring wages thing is a straw man

[jillcwhomever]

They really shouldn't have to. I'm not defending their wages because we all know they're obscene but the club can afford to pay all staff and nobody take a pay cut

The players should be deferring wages thing is a straw man

I don't get this opinion. The players are not playing at the moment and are getting full payment, they are on huge contracts how can you say that's a straw man? They need to make a contribution in someway, to me that's pretty obvious. The owners as well.

[west_london_red]

A PR disaster, morally reprehensible, and to save what? Couple of million maybe at the most in wages at most which is quite frankly peanuts to the club and it’s owners and in comparison to the first team wage bill  and considering the club just had its most successful season financially ever means this decision leaves an even more unpleasant taste in the mouth.

[Dim Glas]

I don't get this opinion. The players are not playing at the moment and are getting full payment, they are on huge contracts how can you say that's a straw man? They need to make a contribution in someway, to me that's pretty obvious. The owners as well.

Sounds like they are or have already been making contributions to charity and the NHS? Hendo for sure has been setting up a fund to help. That is what I'd want to see more doing, them giving up good portions of their ridiculous wages to those who need it most at the moment.

Of course, many players could already have done so, and not felt the need to make a big thing of it.

[Morgana]

I think it’s naive to assume Liverpool aren’t going to be adversely affected by the lack of gate receipts, hospitality revenues and Champions League money since we’ve dropped out before the quarter finals this year (and only God knows if that competition would’ve been completed even if we’d stayed in it).

The club is making use of the government scheme just like most businesses would do under the circumstances. The financial markets are crashing; don’t assume FSG aren’t or haven’t been suffering massive losses over the last month, and will suffer greater losses the longer the corona virus crisis continues.

Just because our club/owners are doing a little bit better than most doesn’t mean they have bottomless pits of money to pour into the club when there’s literally no football on, and people are talking about the possibility of having to pay back some of tv revenue or receiving less next year, when they have 50 million already being spent on the new training facilities.

This is a nightmare for everyone and every club will eventually suffer as a result of it. Let’s  not be so reactionary about this. Give FSG a break.

The staff will get paid 100% of their salaries; that’s all that matter for now.

[jillcwhomever]

Sounds like they are or have already been making contributions to charity and the NHS? Hendo for sure has been setting up a fund to help. That is what I'd want to see more doing, them giving up good portions of their ridiculous wages to those who need it most at the moment.

Of course, many players could already have done so, and not felt the need to make a big thing of it.

Not sure anything has been done yet, there is talk of Jordan arranging it but has it actually been done? Also, it doesn't change the fact that they are being fully paid for not playing football at present. The club will need a contribution to remain running, see no reason why they can't do something. The owners as well need to contribute and they should be working together to find a way forward.

[Morgana]

They really shouldn't have to. I'm not defending their wages because we all know they're obscene but the club can afford to pay all staff and nobody take a pay cut

The players should be deferring wages thing is a straw man

Funny enough I kind of agree with you, but only because most of our players are massively underpaid when compared to United or City players. That Rashford gets 350k a week and Trent only gets 40k seems outrageous to me. Nobody should be asking Trent to take the same percentage pay cut as Pogba or De Bruyne, for example, since they make up to six times Trent’s annual salary.

And don’t get me started on politicians calling out footballers to give up part of their income when they’ve designed tax-free loopholes in the law for Amazon and Google to get away with murder.

Hypocritical and poorly thought through; a little bit of witch huntery about it too, in my opinion.

[lionel_messias]

I don't get this opinion. The players are not playing at the moment and are getting full payment, they are on huge contracts how can you say that's a straw man? They need to make a contribution in someway, to me that's pretty obvious. The owners as well.

Actually as someone has said on the other thread, it might be better for players to be fully paid because that generates a huge amount of tax for the treasury and therefore better to pay them and let them use their money to create a charity fund for the NHS

I think it’s naive to assume Liverpool aren’t going to be adversely affected by the lack of gate receipts, hospitality revenues and Champions League money since we’ve dropped out before the quarter finals this year (and only God knows if that competition would’ve been completed even if we’d stayed in it).

The club is making use of the government scheme just like most businesses would do under the circumstances. The financial markets are crashing; don’t assume FSG aren’t or haven’t been suffering massive losses over the last month, and will suffer greater losses the longer the corona virus crisis continues.

Just because our club/owners are doing a little bit better than most doesn’t mean they have bottomless pits of money to pour into the club when there’s literally no football on, and people are talking about the possibility of having to pay back some of tv revenue or receiving less next year, when they have 50 million already being spent on the new training facilities.

This is a nightmare for everyone and every club will eventually suffer as a result of it. Let’s  not be so reactionary about this. Give FSG a break.

The staff will get paid 100% of their salaries; that’s all that matter for now.

I think you are wrong because football clubs are very public, very community connected businesses. None more so than Liverpool. And for a club like Liverpool, with public profits on record, huge turnover, owned by extremely rich
individuals - who will not be going hungry due to Coronavirus - to use government money to pay some staff ---is terrible PR, however you want to spin it.

Unlike many small businesses, Liverpool will not be going to the wall due to 3 months without live football. So we should have the money and told all staff we would keep paying them for 3 months or longer, even if they are not
gainfully employed.

[Skeeve]

Morally that would be the right thing to do. Why it hasn't happened and if it does why it has taken so long is simply indefensible.

Morally the club should be playing the non-playing staff without the players taking a paycut, the players should be donating some of their salaries to charity where it would be more useful rather than simply reducing the club's costs which is what would happen with a paycut.

[killer-heels]

Morally the club should be playing the non-playing staff without the players taking a paycut, the players should be donating some of their salaries to charity where it would be more useful rather than simply reducing the club's costs which is what would happen with a paycut.

The players are not obliged to help anyone. But they have a duty to football and the grass roots in this country. They should be giving up that wage and that should be distributed to not only the staff at the club to keep them fully employed but also lower down the pyramid.

Its better for football and the fans that all the people and clubs are kept afloat. Thats why its right that the players give up their wage.

Lets remember that wages are the biggest expense at our club. Lets also not forget that we value the club ahead of players. We dont want LFC to suffer huge losses here.

[Dim Glas]

Not sure anything has been done yet, there is talk of Jordan arranging it but has it actually been done? Also, it doesn't change the fact that they are being fully paid for not playing football at present. The club will need a contribution to remain running, see no reason why they can't do something. The owners as well need to contribute and they should be working together to find a way forward.

the PFA don't want the players to take wages cuts, so that's an issue, not sure who has the final say, but if the players are listening to the PFA, then that may be a part of it. The PFA say it'd be detrimental cos of the massive tax losses.

That of cousre doesn't stop players giving up some of those mad wages to other causes.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52168692

[lionel_messias]

What we are seeing really has the capacity to damage football here. The bubble could really burst.

Let's hope sense prevails otherwise we may see Premier League teams playing behind closed doors and a large
proportion of fans not giving a shit about the outcome.

[killer-heels]

the PFA don't want the players to take wages cuts, so that's an issue, not sure who has the final say, but if the players are listening to the PFA, then that may be a part of it. The PFA say it'd be detrimental cos of the massive tax losses.

That of cousre doesn't stop players giving up some of those mad wages to other causes.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/52168692

The PFA dont want players to take pay cuts because they believe that clubs can afford to pay the staff and are worried that clubs are just using this to push for wage cuts and grab the money themselves.

They may be partly right. But what we have is two sides of the same corrupted coin trying to keep cash for themselves.

The Premier League clubs have two responsibilities. Firstly is to ensure the staff that work their do not lose their jobs and secondly that football in general (from top to the grass roots) do not go under. For that to take place the players must take a pay cut and that money should be used to cover the lost income of the club and other clubs.

[slaphead]

I agree. If the Premier League makes the wrong decision on this, it cuts its own throat.

Liverpool and the Mancs are who the wider audience always want to see. Who wants to watch Brighton v Norwich? No disrespect to those clubs, but not that many outside of their respective fanbases. They will, however, tune in for Liverpool v Norwich and Brighton v Liverpool. Without the likes of us, the product loses a massive amount of its appeal.

If we get screwed over, then all bets are off as far as a Super League and our own TV rights are concerned.

There's absolutely no question of that at all, Us and Utd are the main event, just like Tiger Woods was in Golf, Ronnie O'Sullivan was in snooker and Van Gerwyn is in Darts 
The TV deal would shit itself and they know it.
In saying that, I just don't see a Super League ever working. There's literally thousands of match going reds who sacrifice so much already for a ticket or season ticket and go home and away, we'd lose them if that was to ever happen and we'd lose part of our identity with it.
The TV rights though, I could definitely see that happening if we got shafted. I dont think it will

[B0151?]

The PFA dont want players to take pay cuts because they believe that clubs can afford to pay the staff and are worried that clubs are just using this to push for wage cuts and grab the money themselves.

They may be partly right. But what we have is two sides of the same corrupted coin trying to keep cash for themselves.

The Premier League clubs have two responsibilities. Firstly is to ensure the staff that work their do not lose their jobs and secondly that football in general (from top to the grass roots) do not go under. For that to take place the players must take a pay cut and that money should be used to cover the lost income of the club and other clubs.

But if the Prem clubs are just using it as a cash grab and they can afford to pay their staff, then they believe jobs aren't at risk? And what does taking a wage cut have to do with grassroots if it's all going to their clubs? If there was a firm commitment to use their wages to support the rest of the game for sure.

[Motty]

Fucking shithouse move from the club if true, hoping to god they come out with this all being a misinterpretation of the word furlough and they aren't asking for the government to pay 80%, absolute disgrace if not [emoji35]