Author Topic: Maradona 1960-2020  (Read 99551 times)

Offline Legs

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #560 on: March 31, 2020, 07:19:55 pm »
Watched it last night and loved it even if I had to read the subtitles !

The stat where he got 15 in a season in Italy doesnt sound brilliant but back then players got smashed to bits like Van Basten another brilliant centre forward who had the lot.

Italy had all the best players in that era and another stat I have seen Maldini/Baresi played 196 games together & let in 23 goals that is only FIVE goals a season.

I have no doubt Diego in this era would destroy teams and who knows how much better he could have been if he left Napoli abit earlier as his life was on a downward curve off the pitch.

Offline Iska

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #561 on: March 31, 2020, 07:27:40 pm »
I have no doubt Diego in this era would destroy teams and who knows how much better he could have been if he left Napoli abit earlier as his life was on a downward curve off the pitch.
That’s the great football unknowable that the film leaves us with isn’t it.  But where could he have gone in, say, 1990?  Imagine he’d rocked up at Old Trafford for example, as if Cantona isn’t enough of a nightmare.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #562 on: March 31, 2020, 07:35:21 pm »
That’s the great football unknowable that the film leaves us with isn’t it.  But where could he have gone in, say, 1990?  Imagine he’d rocked up at Old Trafford for example, as if Cantona isn’t enough of a nightmare.

Is Maradona a good skier?
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Offline Legs

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #563 on: March 31, 2020, 07:48:27 pm »
That’s the great football unknowable that the film leaves us with isn’t it.  But where could he have gone in, say, 1990?  Imagine he’d rocked up at Old Trafford for example, as if Cantona isn’t enough of a nightmare.

Thankfully the last part didnt happen.

Offline Samie

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #564 on: March 31, 2020, 07:52:45 pm »
By 1990 he was snorting coke off Colombian supermodels arse cracks.  Not like he would've done much for them at the time.

Offline Statto Red

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #565 on: March 31, 2020, 08:01:34 pm »
By 1990 he was snorting coke off Colombian supermodels arse cracks.  Not like he would've done much for them at the time.

That was such a shame, & in Italy he became public enemy no 1 after Argentina knocked Italy in the semi in Italy's own world cup, they were after him from then on & Maradona should have been wary of that, but he couldn't help himself.
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Offline Iska

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #566 on: March 31, 2020, 08:48:13 pm »
By 1990 he was snorting coke off Colombian supermodels arse cracks.  Not like he would've done much for them at the time.
I was going to say not much of that going on in Manchester at the time, but no doubt he’d’ve been straight down the Haç.

Offline God's Left Peg

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #567 on: March 31, 2020, 10:40:22 pm »
Didn't he have an abnormally high range of rotational movement in his ankles? I'm sure I've read that somewhere.
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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #568 on: April 2, 2020, 06:49:41 pm »
Ridiculous balance and strength. Unlike Messi he did it at the highest level i.e. World Cup. He carried the hopes of a football crazy nation on his shoulders. He drove an average Argentine side to win the World Cup in 1986. He also helped them reach the final in 1990. He propelled an unfashionable side like Napoli to win Serie A. He did all this at a time when players weren't afforded the protection the current generation take for granted. I imagine the pitches weren't as good either. Sensational player. One of a quartet of geniuses alongside Pele, Cryuff and Best.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #569 on: April 2, 2020, 06:55:37 pm »
The champions league is the peak of football now to be honest, has been since around 2001/2002 I think

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #570 on: April 2, 2020, 07:02:59 pm »
Ridiculous balance and strength. Unlike Messi he did it at the highest level i.e. World Cup. He carried the hopes of a football crazy nation on his shoulders. He drove an average Argentine side to win the World Cup in 1986. He also helped them reach the final in 1990. He propelled an unfashionable side like Napoli to win Serie A. He did all this at a time when players weren't afforded the protection the current generation take for granted. I imagine the pitches weren't as good either. Sensational player. One of a quartet of geniuses alongside Pele, Cryuff and Best.
Messi’s done alright at World Cups despite what everyone says.  Though yeah, very few have ever Maradona’ed one.

PS Best is the lottery winner in that quartet.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #571 on: April 2, 2020, 07:22:01 pm »
Messi’s done alright at World Cups despite what everyone says.  Though yeah, very few have ever Maradona’ed one.

PS Best is the lottery winner in that quartet.

I'm taking it you believe George to be lucky to be the same league as Pele, Cryuff and Maradona. Ok he played for United but he truly was a genius. Yes his career effectively ended prematurely at the age of 26 but he was simply the most naturally gifted player to come from the UK and Ireland. Like the other three he played at a time when players weren't afforded protection on the field and the said field was not often of a high standard to play on.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #572 on: April 2, 2020, 07:29:05 pm »
I'm taking it you believe George to be lucky to be the same league as Pele, Cryuff and Maradona. Ok he played for United but he truly was a genius. Yes his career effectively ended prematurely at the age of 26 but he was simply the most naturally gifted player to come from the UK and Ireland. Like the other three he played at a time when players weren't afforded protection on the field and the said field was not often of a high standard to play on.
I was half-joking because I tend to judge players by the height of their peak, so I actually am willing to stick Best in the top tier (in principle at least because I haven’t seen that much of him) along with a few other wildcards like Baggio or Ronaldinho.

But in terms of accomplishments he doesn’t belong with those three at all.  If anyone does, it’s Zidane.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #573 on: April 2, 2020, 07:36:15 pm »
I was half-joking because I tend to judge players by the height of their peak, so I actually am willing to stick Best in the top tier (in principle at least because I haven’t seen that much of him) along with a few other wildcards like Baggio or Ronaldinho.

But in terms of accomplishments he doesn’t belong with those three at all.  If anyone does, it’s Zidane.

Would agree with you in terms of accomplishments. Zindane is slightly tainted for me over head butting Materazzi.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #574 on: April 2, 2020, 08:33:51 pm »
That’s the great football unknowable that the film leaves us with isn’t it.  But where could he have gone in, say, 1990?  Imagine he’d rocked up at Old Trafford for example, as if Cantona isn’t enough of a nightmare.
i think in this day age players have their shit together far better (the amount of money probably helps), likes of maradona and best would be much greater players in this generation

Offline Statto Red

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #575 on: April 2, 2020, 09:33:13 pm »
That’s the great football unknowable that the film leaves us with isn’t it.  But where could he have gone in, say, 1990?  Imagine he’d rocked up at Old Trafford for example, as if Cantona isn’t enough of a nightmare.

I don't think anyone in England including United could have afforded him in 1990, even back then top first division players were only getting a couple of grand a week at most, Maradona's wages would have been astronomical well into 7 maybe 8 figures a season, also TV deals for the first division were nowhere near what they became from 92, think it was £3 million a season what ITV paid for the rights in 88
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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #576 on: April 2, 2020, 10:09:49 pm »
.
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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #577 on: April 2, 2020, 10:18:53 pm »
the 1990 world cup was close to ridiculous.. he had caniggia, brown and a couple of donkeys - and took them to the final..

always great to watch small chubby lads performing miracles..
It’s not even about individuality, it’s about the team. Our game was based on his controlling of the tempo. Squeeze the life out of the opposition and then strike. That is our game. Like a pack of pythons.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #578 on: April 2, 2020, 10:20:54 pm »
the 1990 world cup was close to ridiculous.. he had caniggia, brown and a couple of donkeys - and took them to the final..

always great to watch small chubby lads performing miracles..

I said exactly the same thing when I found out Capon had 6 kids.
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Offline Samie

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #579 on: April 2, 2020, 10:22:22 pm »
In 86 other than Ruggeri they had clowns and he took them all the way.  ;D

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #580 on: April 2, 2020, 10:27:51 pm »
things that stood out for me in the documentary:

-he was under alot of strain and pressure. they really focused in on that and is most likely why he started taking drugs. I doubt sports psychologists were the norm back then but he really needed one and it would have helped him immensely. if he was playing in the modern age then he would have that.
-His time at Napoli was magical but it was too much. Supporters were overbearing and obviously the mafia got their claws into him. Did the mafia contribute to his transfer fee i wonder? It seemed as if they thought they owned him.
-a lot is made of the hand of god goal but he got some kicking in that game. It was clear that the english players targeted him. People forget that when they label him a cheat.
-not specifically mentioned in the documentary but when comparing to messi you have to take into account the fact that he faced better defenders who got far more license from referees to do what they wanted. during his time in seria a he faced defenders likes Cabrini, Bergomi, Gentile, maldini, Scirea, baresi, costacurta, Brehme, Mattheus, vierchowod. also, he didnt play with the same calibre of team mate that messi has throughout his career. He really drove the teams he played in to another level .


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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #581 on: April 2, 2020, 10:28:41 pm »
In 86 other than Ruggeri they had clowns and he took them all the way.  ;D

valdano was no clown

Offline Samie

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #582 on: April 2, 2020, 10:30:37 pm »
True and Brown as well to be fair.  :D

Offline idontknow

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #583 on: April 2, 2020, 10:54:05 pm »
I was half-joking because I tend to judge players by the height of their peak, so I actually am willing to stick Best in the top tier (in principle at least because I haven’t seen that much of him) along with a few other wildcards like Baggio or Ronaldinho.

But in terms of accomplishments he doesn’t belong with those three at all.  If anyone does, it’s Zidane.
Agree with this, it gets a bit tricky a bit quickly. For example, Garrincha has been missed out and, well, he's a bit contemporary with Pele, plus, to a lot of people, he sort of Maradonaed 1962.

We draw the lines in a very fuzzy wobbly manner.

Now, I would agree with a Pele, Cruyff, Maradona thing at the top, but a lot of that, to me,  is the creation of a legend status that has an independence from anything absolutely provable.

With Pele, for example, 17yrs old, Brazil's first win, then 12 years later, 3rd win, and that Brazil performance in the final, the colour of that tournament on tv, and those Brazil shirts, I was just too young to see it, but you grew up with the images. It was what the World Cup was meant to be. I suppose it is the modern day equivalent of religious iconography. And those players, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, are possibly the 3, to me, who have been the most portrayed in that manner.

Zidane is a good shout, too, and maybe Brazilian Ronaldo.
Yet somehow Di Stefano and Puskas get consistently missed.

And Messi.
Maybe it is 'the story' that really lifts a player's status right up to a god-like level.

And perhaps in 20 years people won't be comparing Best, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona, but perhaps Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo and someone else.

Maybe we'll all still be discussing it.  :)

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #584 on: April 2, 2020, 11:48:21 pm »
the 1990 world cup was close to ridiculous.. he had caniggia, brown and a couple of donkeys - and took them to the final..

always great to watch small chubby lads performing miracles..

How Argentina got that far in Italia 90 is ridiculous, they only won 2 games in regulation[& one of those was a group game against the old Soviet Union], had to rely getting through on penalties, & the final was a disgrace by both teams.
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Offline afc tukrish

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #585 on: April 3, 2020, 12:54:55 am »
True and Brown as well to be fair.  :D

Julio Jorge Olarticoechea had one of the best names ever...
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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #586 on: April 3, 2020, 01:02:06 am »
More a cross between Suárez and Gazza. But considerably better. Never seen a single player have more influence over any team, and he did it numerous times. Still prefer Pele, he played with better players but he was on a different level.

that's a good shout that. Young Gazza was boss wasn't he, obviously he was still a good player after his injury, even when overweight and on the ale he had his moments, but an un-injured 28 year old Gazza would have been something.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #587 on: April 3, 2020, 01:48:26 am »
On the subject of the greats, when we were lads (I was born in 68) it was Pele, Cruyff and Beckenbauer.

I was too young to see them, but the names lived on, just wondered if anyone who saw Beckenbauer would have him up there? As you dont hear him mentioned that often.

Once I got older, it was Cruyff, for me, then Maradona came along.

Offline kaesarsosei

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #588 on: April 3, 2020, 11:46:21 am »
Maradona
Messi
Zidane
Ronaldo (Brazil)
Ronaldo (Cristiano)

Those are the best 5 players I have seen in my lifetime, in rough but not exact order.  I'm mid-40's so Best, Cryuff, Pele etc are too early for me and IMO people should never try to rate players they haven't actually seen play no matter their reputations.

Brazilian Ronaldo ahead of Cristiano, and he could have been at the top of the list if it wasn't for his meltdown in 98 and various injuries after that. In terms of absolute peaks for however short a period of time, I rate Maradona and Brazilian Ronaldo as the two best ever. Ronaldinho just misses out, but if he had the attitude of Cristiano Ronaldo he would have pissed this list.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #589 on: April 3, 2020, 12:12:13 pm »
Any decent reads on Maradona nowadays? Just finished watching the documentary and intrigued to see how he's getting on nowadays. Hasn't seemed to kick the drug habit if the 2018 world cup was anything to go by, last I saw he was managing a team in the drug capital of Mexico.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #590 on: April 3, 2020, 12:14:18 pm »
Any decent reads on Maradona nowadays? Just finished watching the documentary and intrigued to see how he's getting on nowadays. Hasn't seemed to kick the drug habit if the 2018 world cup was anything to go by, last I saw he was managing a team in the drug capital of Mexico.

Think he's managing Gimnasia in Argentina now. He resigned but then rejoined about 2 days later.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #591 on: April 3, 2020, 12:23:22 pm »
Amazing documentary, unfortunately not old enough to have seen Maradona play and his story always fascinated me

Always wonder about the quality of players in the sides he was successful with, understand it was largely success with sides who were underdogs but a lot of the talk seems hugely disrespectful to his teammates as some act like he played with Sunday league players

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #592 on: April 5, 2020, 11:20:47 pm »
Amazing documentary, unfortunately not old enough to have seen Maradona play and his story always fascinated me

Always wonder about the quality of players in the sides he was successful with, understand it was largely success with sides who were underdogs but a lot of the talk seems hugely disrespectful to his teammates as some act like he played with Sunday league players

they were not sunday league players; some pretty decent players but not recognized names. but back in those days; no protection for the star players and maradona got it bad.. when he first broke into the international scene italy just killed him and got away with it; he did retaliate though.. from that perspective maradona and suarez were pretty similar though.. tough bastards
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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #593 on: April 6, 2020, 10:09:55 am »
It is impossible to compare Maradona to any recent players. Both Messi and Ronaldo is nothing like him. Ronaldinho came closest but doesn’t have his leadership. Suarez have some of that genius and tenacity but lacked the playmaking skills.

Maradona is a genius and the biggest cheat in football at the same time.

Very OTT for one handball
He's no more a cheat than Thiery Henry and less of one than  those involved in the Italy match fixing
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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #594 on: April 18, 2020, 01:32:49 pm »
The 2006 FA Cup Final was "The Gerrard Final".


The 1986 World Cup was "The Maradona World Cup".

Diego almost repeated that in 1990.

Phenomenal player.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #595 on: April 18, 2020, 05:40:04 pm »
Ridiculous balance and strength. Unlike Messi he did it at the highest level i.e. World Cup. He carried the hopes of a football crazy nation on his shoulders. He drove an average Argentine side to win the World Cup in 1986. He also helped them reach the final in 1990. He propelled an unfashionable side like Napoli to win Serie A. He did all this at a time when players weren't afforded the protection the current generation take for granted. I imagine the pitches weren't as good either. Sensational player. One of a quartet of geniuses alongside Pele, Cryuff and Best.
Oh, Cruyff and Best are better than Messi?
Or did they win that elusive World Cup that Messi hasn't?🤔

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #596 on: April 18, 2020, 06:03:00 pm »
Cruyff might be, in fairness.  It’s not a mad shout at all.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #597 on: April 18, 2020, 06:09:56 pm »
Very OTT for one handball
He's no more a cheat than Thiery Henry and less of one than  those involved in the Italy match fixing

Not forgetting Suarez too against Ghana.

And separately players like Rooney and Ronaldo who consistently dived throughout their careers in order to con refs.

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #598 on: April 18, 2020, 06:16:05 pm »
Just finished watching the documentary,have to say it moved me like anything coming from the TV very rarely does these days.

One of the few absolute best football players ever,i've always felt pity for Diego about how for him and with his personality fame,adoration,money and success was and still is also such a curse.

Offline bradders1011

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Re: Maradona - Why the fuss?
« Reply #599 on: April 19, 2020, 08:32:10 pm »
Heard a recommendation for 'Maradona in Mexico' on Netflix. Anybody watched it? Any good?
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