Topic: Merseyrail - now with added 777

[John_P]

There adding lifts to Hunts Cross at the moment as well.

Been needed for years, I remember when my nan was still alive she'd get the train from town to Hunts Cross, then to Garston rather than try and attempt walking up the ramps.

[Red Beret]

Looking at the poster for how the upgrade will look, and it seems an awful lot to get done in just three months. Still, the workmen were on the platform so here's hoping

[Millie]

There adding lifts to Hunts Cross at the moment as well.

Been needed for years, I remember when my nan was still alive she'd get the train from town to Hunts Cross, then to Garston rather than try and attempt walking up the ramps.

They seem to be adding them everywhere.  My nearest station now has them (Meols) which means I can take my elderly Mum on the train now without having to drive out of our way.

[Red Beret]

Cressington will be a challenge. The ticket office there is a listed building. My mate was telling me the other day though how few stations in the area actually have good disabled access, so this is long overdue.

[Indomitable_Carp]

Cressington will be a challenge. The ticket office there is a listed building. My mate was telling me the other day though how few stations in the area actually have good disabled access, so this is long overdue.

It was only when you posted about St. Michaels that I realised that neither Aigburth nor Cressington have any disabled access at all. Pretty poor really.

[John C]

Cressington will be a challenge. The ticket office there is a listed building. My mate was telling me the other day though how few stations in the area actually have good disabled access, so this is long overdue.

Let me know when there's a campaign to de-list the building. We really shouldn't be having to even have a discussion about it should we mate.

[Red Beret]

It was only when you posted about St. Michaels that I realised that neither Aigburth nor Cressington have any disabled access at all. Pretty poor really.

Yeah, my mate mentioned that to me about Aigburth - got me thinking about a lot of other stations on the network. Wikipedia says the nearest station with disabled access (or stairs free as they call it) is South Parkway. That's a bloody joke.

Let me know when there's a campaign to de-list the building. We really shouldn't be having to even have a discussion about it should we mate.

Can't see that happening, mate. There's possibilities to install lifts, but they're nowhere near the ticket office. The platforms are already narrower than what is normally allowed because the station is sandwiched between two bridges.

[AndyMuller]

Any idea as to why the Kirkby train is only 6 carriages while the others are the bigger ones? Train is absolutely packed every morning. Fucking Merseyrail.

[CornerFlag]

I thought 3 was the smaller one and 6 were the bigger trains?

[Millie]

Any idea as to why the Kirkby train is only 6 carriages while the others are the bigger ones? Train is absolutely packed every morning. Fucking Merseyrail.

Do you mean 3?  Don't think they go bigger than 6 do they?  Platforms aren't long enough.

[AndyMuller]

Fucking hell yeah 3 for the Kirkby and 6 for the rest then.

Any idea as to why?

[Millie]

Fucking hell yeah 3 for the Kirkby and 6 for the rest then.

Any idea as to why?

No idea.  I was complaining about it on the Covid thread the other day.  Wirral Line is the same.

[AndyMuller]

No idea.  I was complaining about it on the Covid thread the other day.  Wirral Line is the same.

It is mad, I get the Kirkby train to town in the morning and it is absolutely rammed with hardly any mask wearers then I get on the Hunts Cross train which is so much more spread out and safer (obviously because it is bigger).

[Millie]

It is mad, I get the Kirkby train to town in the morning and it is absolutely rammed with hardly any mask wearers then I get on the Hunts Cross train which is so much more spread out and safer (obviously because it is bigger).

It might be something to do with the distance the Hunts Cross train travels? 

[So… Howard Philips]

It might be something to do with the distance the Hunts Cross train travels?

Hunts Cross to Southport is almost InterCity.

[Millie]

Hunts Cross to Southport is almost InterCity.

Haha 

[AndyMuller]

It might be something to do with the distance the Hunts Cross train travels?

Not really, they both average about 20 mins.

[Millie]

Not really, they both average about 20 mins.

?  The Southport to Hunts Cross train takes over an hour.

[gazzalfc]

?  The Southport to Hunts Cross train takes over an hour.

Think he meant the trains are every 20 mins on the Northern line. Still really annoying as my change at central for the wirral line now only works if the wirral line is running 2 mins late (if I run)

Few issues with crew shortages the past week and still no announcement on when the new trains are coming. A 4.8% fare rise in January is going to hurt as well.

[Millie]

Think he meant the trains are every 20 mins on the Northern line. Still really annoying as my change at central for the wirral line now only works if the wirral line is running 2 mins late (if I run)

Few issues with crew shortages the past week and still no announcement on when the new trains are coming. A 4.8% fare rise in January is going to hurt as well.

Oh I know - my daughter lives in Aigburth so often have to change at Central to the Wirral Line.  Often get to the platform as the train is pulling out.

[Red Beret]

It might be something to do with the distance the Hunts Cross train travels?

I'm guessing so, yes. Kirkby train is only about 15 minutes on its run.

The new trains will help, they're four carriages and I think the carriages themselves are bigger. They can't come soon enough, but they wont be on the Northern Line for ages yet.

[So… Howard Philips]

Oh I know - my daughter lives in Aigburth so often have to change at Central to the Wirral Line.  Often get to the platform as the train is pulling out.

I've given up trying to sycnchronise getting to Cressington for my mum's from the Wirral line so pop to Costa and get a coffee.

[rob1966]

I'm guessing so, yes. Kirkby train is only about 15 minutes on its run.

The new trains will help, they're four carriages and I think the carriages themselves are bigger. They can't come soon enough, but they wont be on the Northern Line for ages yet.

If I'm remembering this right, I'm pretty sure that when I lived in Kirkby, they only used 6 carriages at rush hour and that was about it - be a right pain travelling from Central as it would be packed in town and stay that way until it got to Rice Lane. It was a big event when a 6 came into central. I think weekends and Christmas we got the bigger trains during the day.

[Red Beret]

If I'm remembering this right, I'm pretty sure that when I lived in Kirkby, they only used 6 carriages at rush hour and that was about it - be a right pain travelling from Central as it would be packed in town and stay that way until it got to Rice Lane. It was a big event when a 6 came into central. I think weekends and Christmas we got the bigger trains during the day.

Yeah, six carriages are typically used at rush hour, although Millie and Jill say you rarely see six carriage trains for West Kirby and New Brighton.

The new trains better be able to do the job with four carriages because you can't double them up.

[gazzalfc]

The new trains better be able to do the job with four carriages because you can't double them up.

I thought they could be doubled up to 8 cars. Obviously not at first, but once the whole fleet arrives that they are capable of running 8 car services

Only green lane and Cressington have issues with the shorter platforms

[jillcwhomever]

Anyone using Hamilton Square station all the lifts are out of action early on. I did the steps the last time the lifts were out of order, it nearly crippled me! Getting off a station early. 😀

[Red Beret]

I thought they could be doubled up to 8 cars. Obviously not at first, but once the whole fleet arrives that they are capable of running 8 car services

Only green lane and Cressington have issues with the shorter platforms

Really? Getting off at various stations on the network I've always thought there were very few of them that had the platform length to handle an eight car train. Some stations have longer platforms, but they ends are typically blocked off and out of use.

The current trains were also originally four cars, but each set had a carriage removed before entering service. I'd always assumed it was so they could be doubled up to six rather than eight car trains, but maybe that is a mistake on my part!

Edit: there seems to be some debate on the subject, but you are likely correct.  Whilst I've not seen any "8 car stop" signs on platforms (as opposed to 3, 6 and now 4 car stop signs), I do know that signals have been repositioned, so that is probably one issue taken car of.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/new-merseyrail-stock-8-car-workings.199647/

https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/train/new-trains/tech-corner/

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I'm guessing so, yes. Kirkby train is only about 15 minutes on its run.

The new trains will help, they're four carriages and I think the carriages themselves are bigger. They can't come soon enough, but they wont be on the Northern Line for ages yet.

When are they due mate? The old ones are showing their age now, I used one for the first time in years the other week, but I have to say, the overall service is excellent.
There looked to be a few units in a siding at Crewe when I went through there the other week.

[Red Beret]

When are they due mate? The old ones are showing their age now, I used one for the first time in years the other week, but I have to say, the overall service is excellent.
There looked to be a few units in a siding at Crewe when I went through there the other week.

Absolutely no clue what the current timetable is. All I know is that Merseyrail have taken delivery of about a dozen of the initial 53 trains ordered, but only one has officially been handed over.

They have to run 1500 miles on the network prior to commissioning. Given the third rail network on Merseyside only runs to about 70 miles of track, that is a LOT of prework before a single train can be handed over.

I suspect one of the reasons the current timetable is reduced is to create enough space on the line to run the trains during the day -  probably mostly straight runs between Sandhills and Southport.

They're supposed to be introduced first to the Wirral line - they seem to have enough for West Kirby and New Brighton - but as for the rest I couldn't say. I can't imagine Covid has helped on the manufacturing side of things either. But if what you're saying is right, there's a good chance there might be more due to arrive shortly.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

^
Thanks for that. Never knew they needed 1500 miles on the clock before they can be put into service. As you say that's a lot of runs between sandhills and southport!

[Red Beret]

^
Thanks for that. Never knew they needed 1500 miles on the clock before they can be put into service. As you say that's a lot of runs between sandhills and southport!

I've heard they're on the Chester run as well, parking up at Hooton. I guess things have changed a bit health and safety wise, since the old trains came out back in the 70s!

For anybody who is interested, a six car set of the current fleet is about 390 feet long, whereas an eight car set of the new trains will be 426 feet.  Individual carriages on the old trains are 65 feet long, whereas on the new trains they're about 53 feet.

This might explain why the driver cars at both ends of the train only have a single set of doors - it's very likely the ends of an eight car train will overhang either end of the platform on most stations, but the doors will align okay.

[So… Howard Philips]

^
Thanks for that. Never knew they needed 1500 miles on the clock before they can be put into service. As you say that's a lot of runs between sandhills and southport!

If you remember when new cars had a sign in the back window saying 'Running in. Please pass' you are showing your age.

[rob1966]

If you remember when new cars had a sign in the back window saying 'Running in. Please pass' you are showing your age.

I remember them well, 5 years off my bus pass

[rob1966]

Absolutely no clue what the current timetable is. All I know is that Merseyrail have taken delivery of about a dozen of the initial 53 trains ordered, but only one has officially been handed over.

They have to run 1500 miles on the network prior to commissioning. Given the third rail network on Merseyside only runs to about 70 miles of track, that is a LOT of prework before a single train can be handed over.

I suspect one of the reasons the current timetable is reduced is to create enough space on the line to run the trains during the day -  probably mostly straight runs between Sandhills and Southport.

They're supposed to be introduced first to the Wirral line - they seem to have enough for West Kirby and New Brighton - but as for the rest I couldn't say. I can't imagine Covid has helped on the manufacturing side of things either. But if what you're saying is right, there's a good chance there might be more due to arrive shortly.

Any idea what that is all about and why its required? In 2009, we went to Barcelona as a 1st anni gift off the wife and flying back, you could tell the plane was brand new. Gets over Toulouse and the pilot comes on and says, for those interested, if you can look to your right you will see the Airbus factory where this plane flew out of 2 weeks ago. If they can get a plane in the air so quickly (I know they test fly them for a bit) why so long on a train doing 10-15 mile runs (Kirkby to Hunts Cross must be no more than that?)

[Red Beret]

Any idea what that is all about and why its required? In 2009, we went to Barcelona as a 1st anni gift off the wife and flying back, you could tell the plane was brand new. Gets over Toulouse and the pilot comes on and says, for those interested, if you can look to your right you will see the Airbus factory where this plane flew out of 2 weeks ago. If they can get a plane in the air so quickly (I know they test fly them for a bit) why so long on a train doing 10-15 mile runs (Kirkby to Hunts Cross must be no more than that?)

I've honestly no idea mate. I'm only going on what the guy on the train told me when I took a peak at the one at Birkenhead North.

Maybe planes go through far more rigorous testing of individual parts during construction and assembly, and also, as they're at a stage where they mass produce the aircraft, with precious little deviation from vehicle to vehicle, such rigorous flight testing is not considered necessary by this point? All that sort of work will have been done at the developmental stage with prototypes, test types, and early production models.

The 777 is a limited production, effectively custom built machine, specifically for the Merseyrail network. That said, the manufacturing techniques are pretty standard, and the basic chassis of the train is in widespread use all over Europe. I imagine there's EU regulations in play to ensure reliability, checking parts' wear, etc, but I'm honestly just guessing.  😅

Maybe I'll try a Google search 

Edit: success!

  The depot has been the base for test running so far: Nos 777008 and 777010 have predominantly been used for testing, which has taken place at night on the Merseyrail network. Stephen Catterall, Head of Production at Kirkdale, says this was soon due to change to fault-free running in mixed traffic. The first four units must undergo 1,500 miles of fault-free running prior to acceptance, the next four 1,000 miles, and the remainder of the fleet 500 miles. While Covid has presented challenges, Mr Catterall says it has enabled Stadler’s UK team to play a more prominent role in the testing programme and build experience with the new fleet.

  https://www.modernrailways.com/article/777-testing-ramps

The guy I spoke to didn't mention this! Also, it seems the trains are far more unique in design and construction than wikipedia had left me to believe!

[gazzalfc]

Have the drivers sorted out their union deal yet?

I know the guards have a deal in principal so they remain a safety critical part of the running of the service. But as far as I remember, that deal is contingent on the drivers sorting out their deal with Aslef. Their driver training cant start until that is sorted.

Reading that Stadler seem to be more involved in the testing process, it seems that they haven't

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

If you remember when new cars had a sign in the back window saying 'Running in. Please pass' you are showing your age.

I'm afraid I do Howard. 
Still, it means I was old enough to see us play in the 70s  there's always an upside!

[moondog]

It is amazing that they run 3 car trains into town after the match , totally squeezed on when there is a real concern over Omicrom variant/ covid spread. On top of this there is no one enforcing mask wearing so the whole train basically an incubator for germs. I was really pissed off how rammed the trains were and I fail to see why they can’t make them all 6 cars when there is a game on.

[AndyMuller]

It is amazing that they run 3 car trains into town after the match , totally squeezed on when there is a real concern over Omicrom variant/ covid spread. On top of this there is no one enforcing mask wearing so the whole train basically an incubator for germs. I was really pissed off how rammed the trains were and I fail to see why they can’t make them all 6 cars when there is a game on.

Mate it is all the time from Kirkby, fucking shocking company Merseyrail.

[Red Beret]

Another rail vlogger covering the 777s. Decent interview about 2.45 into this video.

<a href="https://youtube.com/v/i4l_jhUoeCw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://youtube.com/v/i4l_jhUoeCw</a>

So, four trains handed over as of (estimating) six weeks ago, with enough trains to start services by new year. However, that's dependent on staff training, which as pointed out already on here is still a potential sticking point.