Author Topic: Liverpool's Midfield  (Read 1801894 times)

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8160 on: March 22, 2015, 10:17:46 pm »
Only thing I can see is Milner - marginal upgrade on Henderson, in the water carrier mode.

We need quality, someone who can control a game. I'm talking, like, Xabi-level here. 

Who is there on that level?

Offline SerbianScouser

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8161 on: March 22, 2015, 10:18:04 pm »
Only thing I can see is Milner - marginal upgrade on Henderson, in the water carrier mode.

We need quality, someone who can control a game. I'm talking, like, Xabi-level here. 
Xavi. Not like his game was ever about running.

Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8162 on: March 22, 2015, 10:18:16 pm »
Only thing I can see is Milner - marginal upgrade on Henderson, in the water carrier mode.

We need quality, someone who can control a game. I'm talking, like, Xabi-level here.

Say its Milner and Pjanic, a player we've been quite strongly linked with very recently.  Would that be good enough?

Offline Kopenhagen

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8163 on: March 22, 2015, 10:19:35 pm »
Who is there on that level?

Maybe not at that level, but with the potential to be at that level (I'm thinking Xabi when we signed him from Sociedad). I don't know, hopefully the scouts do. It certainly isn't James Milner, however.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8164 on: March 22, 2015, 10:20:02 pm »
Say its Milner and Pjanic, a player we've been quite strongly linked with very recently.  Would that be good enough?

Yes.

But we can forget about Pjanic if we miss CL. I wouldn't be too sure about Milner either.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8165 on: March 22, 2015, 10:20:26 pm »
Agreed and one of them needs to be a dominating presence. Or we could let Can play there for a a set number of games and see how he does.
I think playing Can there is the plan, but from what I've seen so far I'm not sure if he's ready. He gets bullied a bit sometimes and he can be sloppy with his passing and control. I'd rather he is given the time to sort that out where he's not in a centre position. Even Gerrard played out wide when he first came into the team.

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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8166 on: March 22, 2015, 10:21:18 pm »
Maybe not at that level, but with the potential to be at that level (I'm thinking Xabi when we signed him from Sociedad). I don't know, hopefully the scouts do. It certainly isn't James Milner, however.

We wont get Milner. His demands are also sky high and he is not young. Plus he is demanding regular football in a midfield centre position.

If its a Sociedad level Xabi then we dont need CL football.

Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8167 on: March 22, 2015, 10:21:25 pm »
Yes.

But we can forget about Pjanic if we miss CL. I wouldn't be too sure about Milner either.

I don't necessarily agree with that but okay, fair enough.

Offline Kopenhagen

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8168 on: March 22, 2015, 10:22:33 pm »
I don't necessarily agree with that but okay, fair enough.

What don't you agree with?
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Offline QC

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8169 on: March 22, 2015, 10:22:35 pm »
Commands a big transfer fee,  will command big wages, old enough to grow a beard....rule out all players that meet the first three criteria.

Look for players who are young, with bumfluffy chins, in last year of contract or with buy out clause, who are likely to accept a small wage ( optional extra) also likely to fold when facing opponents of equal standing and there's where you will find our new midfielder.

 ;D

Offline Samie

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8170 on: March 22, 2015, 10:22:57 pm »
I think playing Can there is the plan, but from what I've seen so far I'm not sure if he's ready. He gets bullied a bit sometimes and he can be sloppy with his passing and control. I'd rather he is given the time to sort that out where he's not in a centre position. Even Gerrard played out wide when he first came into the team.

I can see where you're coming from. 

Basically we need an older/experienced Can type of player. So he develops into the player we hope he'll be.

Offline Sangria

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8171 on: March 22, 2015, 10:23:34 pm »
He doesnt have to be world class. We can challenege for the title anyway.

Given a requisite amount of ability, I'd prefer a world class character with good ability to a world class talent with poor character. The former is considerably cheaper, and I don't think we're that far off technically. We just need to perform to our potential more often, and have the determination and intelligence to adapt when things don't go our way. And we need to recognise that things won't always go our way, as there's another team on the pitch who will be doing their best to make sure they don't.
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Offline QC

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8172 on: March 22, 2015, 10:24:24 pm »
Milner is not an upgrade on Henderson.

Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8173 on: March 22, 2015, 10:25:52 pm »
What don't you agree with?

That we can forget about them if we don't make the CL.  I think with less of a need to buy 7/8 new players this summer and the money we'll recoup in wages and fees from those that leave that we'll have the funds to make 3 or 4 really good signings.  Good enough players to make us real contenders if we target the right ones.  Just my opinion on it, personally I'm quite optimistic for the summer in terms of new signings.

Offline Kopenhagen

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8174 on: March 22, 2015, 10:25:55 pm »
Milner is not an upgrade on Henderson.

Don't be pedantic. It's not a debate about who's better between Henderson and Milner (they're of similar quality anyway, regardless), it a debate about what kind of midfielder we need, and of what quality.
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Offline QC

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8175 on: March 22, 2015, 10:28:13 pm »
Don't be pedantic. It's not a debate about who's better between Henderson and Milner (they're of similar quality anyway, regardless), it a debate about what kind of midfielder we need, and of what quality.

We need a top defensive mid. Fellaini ran riot over our midfield today with his physicality.

Offline Kopenhagen

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8176 on: March 22, 2015, 10:29:25 pm »
That we can forget about them if we don't make the CL.  I think with less of a need to buy 7/8 new players this summer and the money we'll recoup in wages and fees from those that leave that we'll have the funds to make 3 or 4 really good signings.  Good enough players to make us real contenders if we target the right ones.

It's not purely financial, though, in my opinion. I could see us having another 2013-esque summer if we miss CL, where we target the right players - Costa, Willian, Mkhitaryan - but they get better offers from CL teams, who also have the bonus of additional revenue, particularly if they're based in England.
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Offline Samie

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8177 on: March 22, 2015, 10:30:00 pm »
We need to camp out in Germany lads.  They're producing these type of midfielders that can also play in batches of 10's.

Offline Notayesman

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8178 on: March 22, 2015, 10:30:39 pm »
We need a top defensive mid. Fellaini ran riot over our midfield today with his physicality.

We have one, he's just come back from injury.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8179 on: March 22, 2015, 10:31:15 pm »
We have one, he's just come back from injury.

Does that quite often.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8180 on: March 22, 2015, 10:31:32 pm »
Blaise Matuidi please. :P

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8181 on: March 22, 2015, 10:32:22 pm »
At times, I think we're OK in CM. And then I think we need to improve. I reckon we're missing a Mascherano type of player. A physical, quick, aggressive player who can pass the ball.

The concern I have is Allen. I know he's played well recently, but I still see him as our weak link in CM. If we want a defensive player, we play Lucas. If we want an allround player, we pick Henderson. If we want a pure attacking midfielder, we pick Coutinho. Leadership? Assists? Goals? We never turn to Allen first, so for me he's a backup. No need to trade him for another backup, but if we could find a new first pick, I'm all for making the trade. The main priority though, is to get another goalscorer and that's not a CM.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8182 on: March 22, 2015, 10:33:09 pm »
We needed Lucas' power but we needed next to him someone to control the play and keep the ball. Xabi, for example.

We have managed to get back to some of our best levels around the field with Sakho, Skrtel and our attacking players but our midfielders are so far behind the level of Rafa's side its painful.

I agree on that. I think Lucas is great when he is fully fit and up to speed. Sadly that is not the case for as many games as we need I think. Which Is why I would accept a Lucas transfer if someone comes in for him. Then we should sign a replacement DM and look for a playmaker/controller too.

I'm not then sure how BR fits in Coutinho and Henderson in this formation. It feels like 4-3-3 solves some of this but gives us other headaches, which our current configuration is solving (like defending for example!).
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Offline Samie

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8183 on: March 22, 2015, 10:39:17 pm »
We have one, he's just come back from injury.

and will need to get back up to speed again.

Also I doubt he'll be here next season as well mate. So we really need big changes in the middle of the park.

Offline Djimi Smicer34

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8184 on: March 22, 2015, 10:42:11 pm »
It's not purely financial, though, in my opinion. I could see us having another 2013-esque summer if we miss CL, where we target the right players - Costa, Willian, Mkhitaryan - but they get better offers from CL teams, who also have the bonus of additional revenue, particularly if they're based in England.

I don't really agree.  In 2013 we were coming off the back of 7th and 8th place finishes.  We have made progress since then, even if we were to finish 5th we could point at evidence of progression in the seasons since 2013.  Its all if's and but's at this point, time will tell where we are then in terms of our league finish and the calibre of player we can attract.  But I'm not overly concerned, I think we have the nucleus of the squad now and its a case of us targeting the right missing pieces to complete the puzzle going forward.  Rodgers traveling to Italy a few weeks ago made me think that things are already afoot in preparation for the summer so that we're not in a situation like 2013 where as you say we were targeting the right players and being turned down.  We'll see if that it is the case.

In terms of midfield I think Allen and Henderson (contract renewal permitting) are safe.  Everything else is up in the the air but I think there'll be at least two new midfield signings.

Offline El Lobo

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8185 on: March 22, 2015, 10:44:13 pm »
At times, I think we're OK in CM. And then I think we need to improve. I reckon we're missing a Mascherano type of player. A physical, quick, aggressive player who can pass the ball.

The concern I have is Allen. I know he's played well recently, but I still see him as our weak link in CM. If we want a defensive player, we play Lucas. If we want an allround player, we pick Henderson. If we want a pure attacking midfielder, we pick Coutinho. Leadership? Assists? Goals? We never turn to Allen first, so for me he's a backup. No need to trade him for another backup, but if we could find a new first pick, I'm all for making the trade. The main priority though, is to get another goalscorer and that's not a CM.

We'd be unstoppable with a Masch clone.
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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8186 on: March 22, 2015, 10:48:33 pm »
Henderson pretty much picks himself in CM. What we need to figure out is who to play with him. We're bound to play Coutinho/Lallana in an attacking role. So what's missing? The first pick most defensive player. A ballwinner. For me, that means Lucas is safe. He's the best fit we have now. Even if we buy a better player, there's still room for Lucas. An alternative is to buy a box-to-box CM. That is, an improvement on Allen. If I look back at what we've had in recent years, Mascherano is the best fit for me. That kind of player. We'd get speed, we'd get a better player than Lucas and we'd become more robust. It would free up both Coutinho/Lallana and Henderson.

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Offline Gnurglan

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8187 on: March 22, 2015, 10:49:27 pm »
We'd be unstoppable with a Masch clone.

Him and that Suarez clone and we'll win the league next season.

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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8188 on: March 22, 2015, 10:49:43 pm »
Reckon we need a Alonso clone more than a Mascherano type.

Offline Studgotelli

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8189 on: March 22, 2015, 10:50:26 pm »
Lucas in for the next game or Arsenal will slice through our midfield with the way Hendo and Allen vacated the midfield at times today.

Offline Kopenhagen

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8190 on: March 22, 2015, 10:57:30 pm »
Reckon we need a Alonso clone more than a Mascherano type.

Agreed.

This would be a nice mix:

Pjanic-type - Henderson
Alonso-type
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8191 on: March 22, 2015, 11:05:00 pm »
Agreed.

This would be a nice mix:

Pjanic-type - Henderson
Alonso-type

What happens when the other team have the ball? I think this is representative of the problems we sometimes have in midfield.
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Offline trimore

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8192 on: March 22, 2015, 11:15:39 pm »
We'd be unstoppable with a Masch clone.

Why can't Emre Can do that?
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Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8193 on: March 22, 2015, 11:21:20 pm »
Why can't Emre Can do that?

Can is nothing like Masch.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8194 on: March 22, 2015, 11:23:59 pm »
I think the problem is that we have good players rather than great players.

Look at Allen vs city that was a performance of a great player but he isn't capable of producing that level on a regular basis which is why he is a good player and not a great player.

I think that can be said for the rest of the team, what we lack is 1-2 great players who raise the performance level of those around them. Problem is we don't have the clout to go and get one of those players which is the reason we won't be seeing a title or european glory any time soon.
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Offline trimore

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8195 on: March 22, 2015, 11:25:53 pm »
Can is nothing like Masch.

I am ignorant please explain.
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Offline RideTheWalrus

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8196 on: March 22, 2015, 11:29:19 pm »
I am ignorant please explain.

Masch was there just to defend, he wasn't interested in attacking, he didn't try anything fancy. Can isn't like that.
Pretty happy with Arse taking it.

Disappointing.
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Offline Samie

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8197 on: March 22, 2015, 11:32:43 pm »
We also need goals from central midfield and on a semi consistent basis.  Hendo will get between 5-8 but the rest forget them.

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8198 on: March 22, 2015, 11:34:58 pm »
Masch was there just to defend, he wasn't interested in attacking, he didn't try anything fancy. Can isn't like that.

First I absolutely remember the Mascherano era and while he wasn't Steven Gerrard, to say he didn't do any attacking is selective memory plain and simple, he did often charge forward with the ball getting a couple goals and setting up more of them.

It's about picking the right times to attack and charging forward with the ball is often an effective way to deal with the press.

Secondly we have Lucas who does not attack, do why can't he do it?
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Liverpool's Midfield
« Reply #8199 on: March 22, 2015, 11:36:35 pm »
We also need goals from central midfield and on a semi consistent basis.  Hendo will get between 5-8 but the rest forget them.

Given that we play 2 in CM in our 343, how many do you expect Henderson's partner to score? Would you pick Henderson's partner on the basis of goal scoring?
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