Poll

Obviously the Brexit effects are only just showing and it's going to get a lot, lot worse.. but for now..

.. Brexit is going great. Sunlit fucking plateaus full of fucking wonder
.. Brexit is just taking time, it'll be reet
Moo!
.. Brexit is pretty bad, but maybe will get better
.. Brexit is terrible
.. Rees Mogg and all the Brexiters should be hung off a lamp-post.
.. Rees Mogg and all the Brexiters should be hung off a lamp-post AND I like cheese

Author Topic: Brexit. the Con continues  (Read 527660 times)

Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #120 on: September 5, 2020, 05:04:09 pm »
They can blame covid-19 for it.
Might it seem less bad after the struggles of this year?
They will definitely try to lay the economic blame on Covid, they will also try to lay the blame on companies who go under next year on Covid but they will not be able to cover up many other serious problems.
Price rises in the shops are certain next year. all imported goods from nearly all over the world will rise by 10% minimum. I may be wrong but I think it's imported Beef that will have the highest tarrif, it will cost 40% more in shops.? people will complain so Supermarkets will have to defend themselves, they will tell the public this is down to Brexit, inflation will rise next year, how high is anyone's guess but it won't be good news for homeowners. same with pensioners on Company pensions, they will be eroded in a few years. Companies will not be able to guarantee delivery times, Europeans companies will look for other suppliers if something isn't sorted. I doubt this will be overcome. UK companies will be vocal when the s,, hits the fan, talk of Covid as the problem will be met with anger.
Companies will be forced to economise to compete next year, their goods will cost more to produce and they will also cost a minimum of 10% more in shops all over the world, a double whammy.
I expect workers to agree to job cuts and lower wages to keep their jobs, all this was forecast 4 yrs ago, it was called project fear.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #121 on: September 5, 2020, 11:37:10 pm »
They will definitely try to lay the economic blame on Covid, they will also try to lay the blame on companies who go under next year on Covid but they will not be able to cover up many other serious problems.
Price rises in the shops are certain next year. all imported goods from nearly all over the world will rise by 10% minimum. I may be wrong but I think it's imported Beef that will have the highest tarrif, it will cost 40% more in shops.? people will complain so Supermarkets will have to defend themselves, they will tell the public this is down to Brexit, inflation will rise next year, how high is anyone's guess but it won't be good news for homeowners. same with pensioners on Company pensions, they will be eroded in a few years. Companies will not be able to guarantee delivery times, Europeans companies will look for other suppliers if something isn't sorted. I doubt this will be overcome. UK companies will be vocal when the s,, hits the fan, talk of Covid as the problem will be met with anger.
Companies will be forced to economise to compete next year, their goods will cost more to produce and they will also cost a minimum of 10% more in shops all over the world, a double whammy.
I expect workers to agree to job cuts and lower wages to keep their jobs, all this was forecast 4 yrs ago, it was called project fear.


Are you sure you are not that guy who shouts Stop Brexit outside parliament?

Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #122 on: September 6, 2020, 12:01:15 am »
Are you sure you are not that guy who shouts Stop Brexit outside parliament?
Steve wasn't it, is he still about?  he had a lot of guts that lad, nutters in his face giving him aggro all the time.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline PaulF

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #123 on: September 6, 2020, 12:05:18 am »
So, whilst I fully believe it's a stupid thing to do. I do hold out hope that we will find some opportunities to lessen the pain. This may be the same hope that Neville has that United will challenge for the league next season.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #124 on: September 6, 2020, 12:33:15 am »
So, whilst I fully believe it's a stupid thing to do. I do hold out hope that we will find some opportunities to lessen the pain. This may be the same hope that Neville has that United will challenge for the league next season.
Wish I could agree,I honestly do but I can't see anything what will ease the pain of Brexit,
assuming these new trade deals are better than the ones we have now which won't happen as we have far less clout now, the real problem with all these new opportunities is they will take decades to achieve, what happens to the UK while we are waiting,? it's not good.
Every time you ask a Brexit MP to explain what these new opportunities are they come up with absurd replies,  Marcus Fysh MP deputy chair of the board of Trade tried to make the argument yesterday when he phoned up James O'Brien on the radio, He had a prepared argument and this is the best he could come up with, embarrassing to listen too.
https://twitter.com/Richardmassey82/status/1302164184604520448
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #125 on: September 6, 2020, 08:10:02 am »
So, whilst I fully believe it's a stupid thing to do. I do hold out hope that we will find some opportunities to lessen the pain. This may be the same hope that Neville has that United will challenge for the league next season.

If that happens then it will be a win for the Brexit lot. What we need is their stupid ideas to result in the maximum pain, both economically and through other ways such the break up of their precious union. Only then can any change dare to happen.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #126 on: September 6, 2020, 09:15:54 am »
If that happens then it will be a win for the Brexit lot. What we need is their stupid ideas to result in the maximum pain, both economically and through other ways such the break up of their precious union. Only then can any change dare to happen.

Would a fully independent England be any better?

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #127 on: September 6, 2020, 10:49:09 am »
Wish I could agree,I honestly do but I can't see anything what will ease the pain of Brexit,
assuming these new trade deals are better than the ones we have now which won't happen as we have far less clout now, the real problem with all these new opportunities is they will take decades to achieve, what happens to the UK while we are waiting,? it's not good.
Every time you ask a Brexit MP to explain what these new opportunities are they come up with absurd replies,  Marcus Fysh MP deputy chair of the board of Trade tried to make the argument yesterday when he phoned up James O'Brien on the radio, He had a prepared argument and this is the best he could come up with, embarrassing to listen too.
https://twitter.com/Richardmassey82/status/1302164184604520448
The scripted comments from Marcus Fysh over James O'Brien was mantra, a prayer. If there was video, Fysh would have been rocking backwards and forwards as he spoke his words. These idiots are following dogma, nothing more.
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #128 on: September 6, 2020, 12:37:46 pm »
If that happens then it will be a win for the Brexit lot. What we need is their stupid ideas to result in the maximum pain, both economically and through other ways such the break up of their precious union. Only then can any change dare to happen.
Yeah I understand what you mean, I think it's also about getting people to point their fingers at the people who deserve it, our MPs are responsible for the mess the country finds itself in, all self inflicted, whatever happens many will be blaming the EU for trying to punish us, we are letting in trucks in no problem so why can't they, they are trying to screw us, sod them, nope. the EU will do what every other country in the world does, police their customs posts,  I think we will be throwing open our borders to let everything in as we won't be able to cope, it will cause a stink when Johnson lies about it, yes the EU will play hardball but they have too to protect the SM+CU. point is the leave campaign told people this is all project fear and we will get a cake and eat it brexit which was always impossible

[/quote]
The scripted comments from Marcus Fysh over James O'Brien was mantra, a prayer. If there was video, Fysh would have been rocking backwards and forwards as he spoke his words. These idiots are following dogma, nothing more.
That's the vision I had, it's not as if someone caught him on the spare of the moment and asked how will we be better off, he had time to prepare, he had time to write down anything he wanted and he argues Australia's trade deal went a bit better than expected, £5 bill. peanuts. the more they make these arguments the more you see how bad this all is, I was told fishing will benefit us other day, what is worth to the UK, £980 mill, jobs 24.000.
Car industry, over £85 Bill. around a Million directly and indirectly employed in car industry, all under threat.
« Last Edit: September 6, 2020, 01:36:47 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #129 on: September 6, 2020, 02:32:11 pm »
Would a fully independent England be any better?

Probably not, but my vindictive side knows that the union is loved more than anything. I want that gone.

Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #130 on: September 6, 2020, 06:49:10 pm »
Probably not, but my vindictive side knows that the union is loved more than anything. I want that gone.

Well the Scots aren't that keen on it but the Orange Order etc. won't see it go without mayhem so be careful what you wish for.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #131 on: September 6, 2020, 09:59:04 pm »
According to Peter Foster from the FT on twitter, further developments on our move to the hardest of Brexits.
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1302701541674160134

Quote
NEW: UK planning legislation to override key parts of #brexit withdrawal treaty and Northern Ireland protocol - a potentially HUGE move in negotiations; major ructions in Whitehall

Per three sources with knowledge of plans the UK Internal Market bill (due on Weds) and this autumn's Finance Bill will contain clauses that  “eliminate the legal force of parts of the withdrawal agreement”. The EU are unlikely to like this - which I guess is the point

Given @MichelBarnier insistence on the "precise implementation" of the Withdrawal Agreement, the decision to legislate in a way that dilutes those obligations - on State Aid, export summary declarations and tariffs - is not likely to go down well with the EU

A person familiar with the plans said they would “clearly and consciously” undermine the agreement on Northern Ireland that Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson signed last October - but which in the light of the diamond-hard Brexit he's negotiating, now looks very difficult.

A second person familiar with the plans said they were a "blunt instrument" that would directly "set up UK law in opposition with obligations under the withdrawal agreement, and in full cognisance that this will breach international law.”

A lot of Whitehall is *deeply* uncomfortable with this approach.

Foreign Office not sure how it can criticise China for not meeting international obligation if UK is paring back obligations of a Treaty it signed in less than a year ago, or help Int Trade dept sign deals.

Brexiters - who have been calling on @BorisJohnson to ditch the Withdrawal Agreement - will like this move.

And in a 'no deal' scenario, where the UK seeks untrammeled sovereignty, it has a powerful logic.

The problem is that @BorisJohnson promised to remove the UK from the EU "whole and entire" - but it has become clear that his Northern Irish 'frontstop' does not do that to the satisfaction of Brexiters.

The biggest problem is Article 10 - which says that Northern Ireland must follow EU state aid rules AND that EU law (Annex 5) shall apply to the *United Kingdom* (and not just in respect of Northern Ireland.

For Brexiters that creates a potential huge trojan horse for Brussels to reach back into UK policy even in the event of a "clean-break" not deal - the UK Govt would have to notify Brussels of S.Aid decision that impacted companies in NI.

Sources say that UK Internal Market Bill will contain "notwithstanding clauses" - i'e 'notwithstanding our obligations under the protocol' define in a far narrower way what the Northern Irish Protocol means on state aid and unfettered access for NI trade to GB.

As @jamesrwebber of Shearman & Sterling tells me, this would effectively work to supersede elements of the Protocol, and define its scope more narrowly in legal terms.

The plan - which I understand has been backed personally by @DavidGHFrost would “clearly and consciously” undermine the Protocol....which both sides were working hard to implement. The move divided Whitehall at the highest levels.

A goverment said it was “working hard to resolve outstanding issues” with the Northern Ireland protocol in good faith. But added: “As a responsible government, we are considering fall-back options in the event this is not achieved to ensure the communities of NI are protected”

There are those who believe passionately that - in a deal scenario - the NI Protocol can still be made to work, but the harder the #Brexit that is being negotiated, the harder that becomes.

Recall that the @BorisJohnson 'frontstop' was negotiated with the Political Declaration along side it - a declaration that talked about a State Aid regime, a level playing field between both sides and a comprehensive FTA. All of that now looks very distant

So if we really are heading for 'no deal', a free hand on State Aid and sovereignty is the priority above all else - then it is hard to see how this government could live with Protocol as it stands

Is this a gambit? A move to try and force the EU to re-write the protocol or - if not - have a hands-free 'no deal' all the same.

I've been doing this long enough (think back to Oct 2019) not to make foolhardy predictions....we'll have to see.

How the EU reacts will be interesting. It may depend just how brazenly the legislation cuts across the Protocol.

@MichelBarnier has been determinedly calm these last few months - he may remain so. Wait and see how it plays out. I don't know.

But this does feel to those familiar with the plans like a major move by a govt increasingly resigned to a 'no deal' or 'Australian' exit - and one that risks calling into question the reputation of the UK as a country that negotiates in good faith. Let's see. ENDS

Offline Circa1892

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #132 on: September 6, 2020, 10:45:02 pm »
Government of con men.

Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #133 on: September 6, 2020, 10:52:23 pm »
According to Peter Foster from the FT on twitter, further developments on our move to the hardest of Brexits.
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1302701541674160134
So a hard border it is then. less chance of a trade deal with USA.
Leave voters sat at home clueless over Johnson screwing them again, vote for my oven ready deal and give me total power, ta mugs am ditching it now, not that you would notice.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #134 on: September 7, 2020, 12:04:09 am »
I know I've said it before but I still reckon that they want to repeat last year. If they wanted 'no deal', they could have had it. They could prep for it properly now. They didn't and they haven't. All suggests to me it's more froth while Johnson and co. figure out how they can get it through Parliament past their own fruitloops. Danger is they may not want it but miscalculate so badly that it happens anyway. Deadlines are tighter and tighter and there's no wriggle room come the end.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline cdav

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #135 on: September 7, 2020, 12:19:20 am »
Everything in the news in the last 48 hours has clearly been positioning for domestic consumption

A shite government telling their supporters they still are fighting the enemy on their behalf. Its all bollocks designed for sale on the front of the Mail and Telegraph

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #136 on: September 7, 2020, 12:20:06 am »
Hard border will destroy Northern Ireland and expedite a reunified Ireland. Johnson would be happy with that, in fairness.

I was always content enough with the Political status quo in NI because it’s all I knew, but the last few years have turned me into a nationalist.

Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #137 on: September 7, 2020, 12:54:38 am »
I know I've said it before but I still reckon that they want to repeat last year. If they wanted 'no deal', they could have had it. They could prep for it properly now. They didn't and they haven't. All suggests to me it's more froth while Johnson and co. figure out how they can get it through Parliament past their own fruitloops. Danger is they may not want it but miscalculate so badly that it happens anyway. Deadlines are tighter and tighter and there's no wriggle room come the end.
You might be right Zeb but this lot are beyond incompetent, they are absolutely clueless, they have no solutions, there are no solutions to many of the problems we face but they can prepare the rest of the country, guidance on labelling obviously whooshed them, which UK exports are allowed to print made in the UK etc, don't ask Johnson and co they will just shrug their shoulders.
I maybe wrong but they may well be looking for a easy way out, open the floodgates to imports and tell us we are doing the necessary checks inland. (it will cause a stink.as they won't be able to cope with the new system) they will then point the finger at the EU for all the long tailbacks at Dover etc and tell the public the EU are playing dirty, they are making things far harder than necessary and were not having it, the world will be outraged but when has that bothered leave voters.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #138 on: September 7, 2020, 01:02:00 am »
You might be right Zeb but this lot are beyond incompetent, they are absolutely clueless, they have no solutions, there are no solutions to many of the problems we face but they can prepare the rest of the country, guidance on labelling obviously whooshed them, which UK exports are allowed to print made in the UK etc, don't ask Johnson and co they will just shrug their shoulders.
I maybe wrong but they may well be looking for a easy way out, open the floodgates to imports and tell us we are doing the necessary checks inland. (it will cause a stink.as they won't be able to cope with the new system) they will then point the finger at the EU for all the long tailbacks at Dover etc and tell the public the EU are playing dirty, they are making things far harder than necessary and were not having it, the world will be outraged but when has that bothered leave voters.

I know we see this one differently from times we've chatted about it in the past. And I still think you could be all too correct as well. It's certainly what a chunk of the Tories are saying they want. Thought this was interesting from the Irish side. RTE's Tony Connelly.

Quote
Hard to know what to make of [Foster's] story on the Internal Market Bill and the NI Protocol, except to say that Peter has been unfailingly accurate and painstakingly diligent in his long reporting on Brexit.

2/ The immediate response from my Irish sources are as follows: "not good" and that it is "clearly part of an overall stepping up of the noise by the UK", but that Michel Barnier's Task Force would want the UK to clarify things this week

3/ I won't indulge in the rampant speculation about UK tactics on the NI Protocol and whether the Internal Market Bill threat is designed to force the EU into some Spaghetti Western finale involving the WA, state aid and the kitchen sink...

4/ However, @rtenews is running another story tonight (online shortly) that London has for weeks been asking Dublin to intercede with the European Commission to be flexible on the NI Protocol and in return the UK would help Ireland on the land bridge issue

5/ The story is supported by senior sources in Dublin and London. Specifically, Irish officials have been asked if they could persuade the Commission to allow supermarket consignments going GB-NI to be checked at GB depots, rather than at NI ports

6/ Under the NI Protocol SPS checks and customs formalities for food and agrifood trade flows to supermarket chains have been the most sensitive politically, and will require infrastructure (Border Control Posts), vets, IT systems etc at NI ports

7/ London has also asked Dublin to persuade the Commission to allow checks and controls on live animals coming in from GB-NI to be done at abattoirs, and again, not at ports...

8/ In return, London has suggested it can make life easier for Irish trucks relying on the UK land bridge to bring exports from IE to the rest of the single market via Dover and other UK ports.

9/ The land bridge is an ongoing issue for Ireland as Irish trade flows from one part of the single market to another risk being entangled in long queues at Dover, esp if there is no deal...

10/ It's understood the UK has talked about "facilitations" for Irish trucks, although there are no details yet as to what they might look like...

11/ Dublin is sympathetic to the NI Protocol being implemented in as smooth and pragmatic way as possible, so long as EU law is respected... Senior European Commission officials are also trying to be helpful on the supermarkets issue, but so long as the rulebook is not thrown out

12/ However, Dublin has responded to UK overtures cautiously: Ireland has long resisted any bilateral fix with the UK (ever since the referendum). Secondly, Dublin does not want to get into a trade on something Ireland and the EU believe the UK has already signed up to

13/ Thirdly, getting into a parallel negotiation could detract from the UK getting with the obligations of the Protocol, which the EU has insisted must be complete by the end of Dec [ok, the FT story will blow all that up if true]

14/ Dublin is also wary about what "facilitations" London has in mind on the land bridge: some ideas might look good in theory, but how would they work in practice?

15/ For example, could Irish trucks really be fast-tracked, without enraging not just UK drivers, but also other European ones who are returning after dropping off or picking up loads...

16/ Of course, if the FT story does signal an intention by the UK govt to walk away from its obligations under the Protocol, then all this is academic... and we'll undoubtedly be back facing a hard border on the island of Ireland.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1302753741632942083.html
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #139 on: September 7, 2020, 01:14:32 am »
I know we see this one differently from times we've chatted about it in the past. And I still think you could be all too correct as well. It's certainly what a chunk of the Tories are saying they want. Thought this was interesting from the Irish side. RTE's Tony Connelly.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1302753741632942083.html
Maybe I haven't researched this Land Bridge as ive always looked at it as a fantasy, a Tunnel would cost a fortune but probably doable, a Bridge over the Irish sea, :shocked as i say ive never taken it seriously so never bothered researching, do people think this could happen?
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #140 on: September 7, 2020, 01:58:01 am »
Maybe I haven't researched this Land Bridge as ive always looked at it as a fantasy, a Tunnel would cost a fortune but probably doable, a Bridge over the Irish sea, :shocked as i say ive never taken it seriously so never bothered researching, do people think this could happen?

Haha! I'd forgotten that they'd gone on about a real bridge. Think Connelly is on about the fact that Irish hauliers cross the Irish Sea and then drive down through Wales and England to cross the Channel. Like he says, 'We pinky promise to let Irish drivers go through quickly' isn't as big as a thing as this government seems to imagine. See what they put before Parliament and what they actually legislate towards rather than quietly park in a corner.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #141 on: September 7, 2020, 02:37:35 am »
A bit of personal good Brexit news in that the Netherlands are allowing my daughter to stay there with residency rights and work permit privileges. So thanks to the fair minded folks there that make those kind of decisions. (She's lived there these past 2 years and lived there for 5 years as a teenager but doesn't have a Netherlands passport or any legal claim to one).
The process has caused much anxiety since she has had a number of service, retail, gig-economy jobs (and is currently unemployed because of Covid) that wouldn't necessarily qualify her for a residents permit. She hasn't lived in the UK since she was a child so is relieved moving plans for December 31st can now be scrapped - NL Dank je wel  :D


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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #142 on: September 7, 2020, 02:42:25 am »
Haha! I'd forgotten that they'd gone on about a real bridge. Think Connelly is on about the fact that Irish hauliers cross the Irish Sea and then drive down through Wales and England to cross the Channel. Like he says, 'We pinky promise to let Irish drivers go through quickly' isn't as big as a thing as this government seems to imagine. See what they put before Parliament and what they actually legislate towards rather than quietly park in a corner.
:lmao Oh I see, I think I remember Johnson promising everyone he would actually build a bridge from NI to Scotland, never mind about it being possible to build, he obviously hasn't been on a boat on the Irish sea. done it at least 14 times back and forth and I wouldn't go near the thing in winter. :)
Well the best advice I could give them is to ask all the other people who Johnsons made promises too on the back of a ciggy packet, to say he hasn't got a good track record is a understatement.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Offline Brissyred

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #143 on: September 7, 2020, 02:56:19 am »
:lmao Oh I see, I think I remember Johnson promising everyone he would actually build a bridge from NI to Scotland, never mind about it being possible to build, he obviously hasn't been on a boat on the Irish sea. done it at least 14 times back and forth and I wouldn't go near the thing in winter. :)
Well the best advice I could give them is to ask all the other people who Johnsons made promises too on the back of a ciggy packet, to say he hasn't got a good track record is a understatement.

He couldn't even build a pedestrian bridge over the Thames, what chance would he have of a bridge to Ireland?

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #144 on: September 7, 2020, 03:33:11 am »
He couldn't even build a pedestrian bridge over the Thames, what chance would he have of a bridge to Ireland?
People seem to enjoy watching him blabber on about all these positive ideas he comes up with, it's embarrassing to watch him come out with absolute bulls. which would normally be insulting to most peoples intelligence but his fans are full of smiles as it's Boris and he's fun to watch. he has screwed them.he knows he has screwed them but he will make another positive b,,  speech and con them again. he thinks they all d/heads.
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #145 on: September 7, 2020, 04:17:25 am »
People seem to enjoy watching him blabber on about all these positive ideas he comes up with, it's embarrassing to watch him come out with absolute bulls. which would normally be insulting to most peoples intelligence but his fans are full of smiles as it's Boris and he's fun to watch. he has screwed them.he knows he has screwed them but he will make another positive b,,  speech and con them again. he thinks they all d/heads.

He's probably right...

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #146 on: September 7, 2020, 09:23:19 am »
I wonder if there are any parts of Johnson's history, both personal and professional, that could have possibly pointed to the fact he would act in bad faith towards his legal obligations?
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #147 on: September 7, 2020, 09:28:12 am »
I wonder if there are any parts of Johnson's history, both personal and professional, that could have possibly pointed to the fact he would act in bad faith towards his legal obligations?

Absolutely not. The man has lived his life in the best traditions of an English gentleman and is the very paradigm of honesty and virtue.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #148 on: September 7, 2020, 09:34:21 am »
:lmao Oh I see, I think I remember Johnson promising everyone he would actually build a bridge from NI to Scotland, never mind about it being possible to build, he obviously hasn't been on a boat on the Irish sea. done it at least 14 times back and forth and I wouldn't go near the thing in winter. :)
Well the best advice I could give them is to ask all the other people who Johnsons made promises too on the back of a ciggy packet, to say he hasn't got a good track record is a understatement.

Beauforts dyke in the Irish Sea between Scotland and NI put paid to that mad idea I think.  Said dyke was used as a weapons dump during world war 2, and considerable amount of bombs, etc, remain there.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #149 on: September 7, 2020, 10:25:01 am »
Hard border will destroy Northern Ireland and expedite a reunified Ireland. Johnson would be happy with that, in fairness.

I was always content enough with the Political status quo in NI because it’s all I knew, but the last few years have turned me into a nationalist.
Unfortunately, others might not be so happy and I fear where that might lead. The status quo of the past 20 years was a fantastic success in diplomacy/mediation - far better than most people would have dreamed only a few years before the GFA.

So, yeah, Johnson might well be happy with risking it all - he clearly does not not give a fuck.

Maybe, just maybe, there are now (or will be) enough Loyalists (seems old-fashioned to use that term now) who understand that the better path for them might be a united Ireland. However, it is not even clear the Republic wants the North - the economics of reunification (especially now with coronavirus and Brexit) would make this a monumental task. The Republic will not wish to take on NI's share of the UKs national debt, that's for sure.

I am largely an outsider to this. So maybe you another RAWKite will have something more positive about the situation.
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #150 on: September 7, 2020, 10:37:32 am »
I know we see this one differently from times we've chatted about it in the past. And I still think you could be all too correct as well. It's certainly what a chunk of the Tories are saying they want. Thought this was interesting from the Irish side. RTE's Tony Connelly.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1302753741632942083.html
I cannot see this being an acceptable situation with your average Brexiteer. Nor, indeed, your average English, Scottish, Welsh or even NI citizen):
Quote
14/ Dublin is also wary about what "facilitations" London has in mind on the land bridge: some ideas might look good in theory, but how would they work in practice?

15/ For example, could Irish trucks really be fast-tracked, without enraging not just UK drivers, but also other European ones who are returning after dropping off or picking up loads...
Imagine that. The UK (or most of it) outside of the SM and CU, and then RoI goods thundering past cues of British hauliers to and from the Continent through Dover.

This is firmly in sunk costs fallacy territory. Everything which happens now is in the forlorn hope of justifying leaving the EU.
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #151 on: September 7, 2020, 10:41:02 am »
Beauforts dyke in the Irish Sea between Scotland and NI put paid to that mad idea I think.  Said dyke was used as a weapons dump during world war 2, and considerable amount of bombs, etc, remain there.

Putting the pilings in that might just prove a touch risky.

A while back, a load of WW2 era ordnance was washing up on Scottish beaches and it was linked to the dumping. They even sank the German Sub fleet somewhere off there after the surrender.
Still it won’t stop the government giving multi million contracts to Johnson’s mates/ favourite consultants to produce feasibility studies and costings surveys.
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #152 on: September 7, 2020, 10:52:35 am »
Hard border will destroy Northern Ireland and expedite a reunified Ireland. Johnson would be happy with that, in fairness.

I was always content enough with the Political status quo in NI because it’s all I knew, but the last few years have turned me into a nationalist.
I was brought up Catholic, but never thought of myself as one or the other, to be honest I just never that interested, but now I want a United Ireland, through entirely peaceful means, it's the best thing for the whole island.

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #153 on: September 7, 2020, 11:46:30 am »
I try and ignore most of the pro brexit rhetoric on twitter as most of them are probably bots, but theres no indication that the vast majority are still pro brexit. Lots of things have happened since the last referendum and it wouldn't surprise me if the vast majority want to remain.

The election, whilst it was the Tory mantra, i feel, wasn't an endorsement of Brexit, but more around the antipathy for a Corbyn led Government.

Brexit will be a clusterfuck for all and we will invariably be left with a Brexit that no one wants (even unicorned ardent Brexiteers)

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #154 on: September 7, 2020, 11:47:56 am »
:lmao Oh I see, I think I remember Johnson promising everyone he would actually build a bridge from NI to Scotland, never mind about it being possible to build, he obviously hasn't been on a boat on the Irish sea. done it at least 14 times back and forth and I wouldn't go near the thing in winter. :)
Well the best advice I could give them is to ask all the other people who Johnsons made promises too on the back of a ciggy packet, to say he hasn't got a good track record is a understatement.

Aye. I know I see it differently currently but Stephen Bush this morning reckons you're closer to the truth than I am so just to support your argument some.

Quote
Good morning. Is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson really serious about walking out of the Brexit talks if a deal has not been reached by 15 October, as the Prime Minister will claim today? Even ministers are divided about whether Johnson's statement is a change of position, or simply a negotiating posture.

The case for scepticism runs like this: Johnson and his allies called for Theresa May to have a staged walk-out in order to convince the European Union that the British government was serious about a no-deal exit and unlock a better trade deal, and are simply taking the opportunity to apply that gambit to the EU-UK trade talks.

But the case to take the Prime Minister's words seriously looks stronger. Over at the FT, Peter Foster reveals that the government is preparing to bring forward legislation that would unpick the legal commitments around the Irish border made by the British government when Johnson negotiated the withdrawal agreement.

Don't forget that the private argument advanced by Dom Cummings and others to back Theresa May's withdrawal agreement was that anything agreed to complete the United Kingdom's exit, could be unpicked after we had left the bloc.

Yes, undermining the Irish border protocol means undermining any hope of a serious US-UK trade deal, but the government's own red lines, on agri-food, the National Health Service and more besides have already undermined any hope of a serious US-UK trade deal.

And the big prize of Brexit, at least as far as this Downing Street is concerned, is freedom from restrictions on state aid: an aim that, similarly, cannot be achieved while signing any EU-UK trade deal.

So the possibility of a no deal remains very high - and the government's moves in that direction should be taken seriously.

(Morning Call email, no link sorry.)
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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #155 on: September 7, 2020, 12:03:42 pm »
Aye. I know I see it differently currently but Stephen Bush this morning reckons you're closer to the truth than I am so just to support your argument some.

(Morning Call email, no link sorry.)
Cummings thinks anything agreed can be unpicked after the deals already been agreed and enforced in a public vote.
Unpicked meaning reneging on the deal Johnsons has signed with the EU.
Could anyone blame the EU for walking away now and telling us to come back when we have leaders they can trust.
 reading this today in the papers, it's bull... the UK won't be bringing in a hard border. the EU will be forced to do it, why weren't these solution Johnson talks of been put to the EU in November last year. sounds like more bull.. so Johnson can lay the blame on the EU.

Ministers are planning new legislation that would override a key part of last year's EU withdrawal agreement.

The move could change the nature of new Northern Ireland customs arrangements which were intended to prevent the return of checks at the border with the Irish Republic.

Downing Street said it was a standby plan in case trade talks fail.
« Last Edit: September 7, 2020, 12:24:00 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #156 on: September 7, 2020, 12:06:25 pm »
Other than propping up their mates businesses why are a Tory Government so keen on having the ability to provide State aid?

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #157 on: September 7, 2020, 12:11:47 pm »
Other than propping up their mates businesses why are a Tory Government so keen on having the ability to provide State aid?
Good question. just a guess but maybe it's about collecting import duties on imports and then giving the money to the UK companies calling it State Aid.
« Last Edit: September 7, 2020, 12:20:22 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
               Emily Maitlis

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #158 on: September 7, 2020, 12:19:43 pm »
Other than propping up their mates businesses why are a Tory Government so keen on having the ability to provide State aid?

It's to do with tax avoidance, it's a bit over my head to be honest but look up Group Financing Exemption state aid

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Re: Brexit. the Con continues
« Reply #159 on: September 7, 2020, 12:22:36 pm »
Aye. I know I see it differently currently but Stephen Bush this morning reckons you're closer to the truth than I am so just to support your argument some.
I do not believe this is just a negotiating tactic by the Government. I think they believe that either EU will capitulate; or, in the event of the EU not presenting their collective derriere to Johnson, so to speak, the EU will return shortly after the New Year to beg for a deal. There is no cunning - just monumental stupidity.

The UKs negotiating position seems to be: here, take this blunt, rusty knife - now cut off your right leg or I will place a gun to my head and pull the trigger.
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