Topic: FAN UPDATE - Ticketing changes to reduce touting - discussion and ideas

[Redman0151]

United's away ticket collection today




Are the club thinking of doing something like that?

[redgriffin73]

Is that at a nearby hotel?

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[Shanklygates]

Looks like part of the ground if you look at the signage but not sure....

Hope we don;t do that regardless esp when allocation is big. Let's see how other things work first...

[Alf]

Hi Graham

Are there plans for the club to allow members to return tickets online like they do for STH?

[Graham Smith]

Hi Graham

Are there plans for the club to allow members to return tickets online like they do for STH?

Again, I am looking for any ideas and suggestions on this - I suspect the Club will not want to encourage this as effectively they end up creating 'half season' tickets.

[Shanklygates]

Is there a separate thread for this? Just so I can see what has been said already easily and maybe add suggestions....? Ta

[Graham Smith]

Is there a separate thread for this? Just so I can see what has been said already easily and maybe add suggestions....? Ta

Nope, just here.

Or email me at secretary@spritofshankly.com

[Shanklygates]

I have a friend who uses another friend's ST for aways - as initially only ST got credits. The STH doesn't go now (kids).

So it sounds like my friend who does go would be left high and dry.

Early days I know and I support some changes. But I know this is quite common, with many of the flag lads etc gong on others STs. Yet they all pay face value, they are bought through linking on friends and family, and the same people go to many games.

I would really feel for these guys as they would suddenly be stuck and I am sure would miss aways!

I know they have to change things, but I wondered.

Re. closed shop issues - couldn't they have a % for a ballot for each game? I would be GUTTED (having built mine up to 19 through going to all games since 2001/2 if they were taken away from me for a new system. Never sold one on. It has cost thousands, and I know a lot are in the same situation. I hope they still do something loyalty based and not have a ballot for everything like United.

But i know they will never please everyone.....

[Graham Smith]

I have a friend who uses another friend's ST for aways - as initially only ST got credits. The STH doesn't go now (kids).

So it sounds like my friend who does go would be left high and dry.

Early days I know and I support some changes. But I know this is quite common, with many of the flag lads etc gong on others STs. Yet they all pay face value, they are bought through linking on friends and family, and the same people go to many games.

I would really feel for these guys as they would suddenly be stuck and I am sure would miss aways!

I know they have to change things, but I wondered.

Re. closed shop issues - couldn't they have a % for a ballot for each game? I would be GUTTED (having built mine up to 19 through going to all games since 2001/2 if they were taken away from me for a new system. Never sold one on. It has cost thousands, and I know a lot are in the same situation. I hope they still do something loyalty based and not have a ballot for everything like United.

But i know they will never please everyone.....

If you've built up full loyalty and go the vast majority of aways I can't see how you'd lose out. I can't see that changing.

The issue is going to be those bending the system - how do we winnow the worthy from the touts/credit hunters?

[Shanklygates]

If you've built up full loyalty and go the vast majority of aways I can't see how you'd lose out. I can't see that changing.

The issue is going to be those bending the system - how do we winnow the worthy from the touts/credit hunters?

Me - unless they scrap loyalty, no. But others who have used others STs etc (albeit for many matches) might well do. Can see both sides...

[wackojackouk]

This is a very interesting thread guys

My friend has two season tickets (her and her partner) but moved right down to the South Coast so I share them with her (I was lucky to get 2-3 games a season as a member and the shite sale process).

I was coming to games with a mate but my kids (three of them) have got into football this past year so they've all been (bar 1 so far) to a game this season as well as well as me and my mate a few times (We've won every game too btw )

In theory if there's an amnesty I'll take on the tickets. I hope they do introduce a scheme where something can be passed on officially as like someone said due to us being at the mercy of the TV companies it's difficult to get time off work sometimes without plenty of notice plus there's train/hotel fares etc to sort.

Also in theory I'm happy to pay for the 2 adult tickets even though my nippers come along sometimes plus when I'm with them we're in the shop spending money too.

I'd also love them to do something about the aways as I'd love to take my 7 y/o to a game and only managed a ticket here and there through the exchange (thanks guys).

WJUK

ps - Glad OP got his tickets back

[Graham Smith]

Unless they scrap loyalty, no. But others who have used others STs etc (albeit for many matches) might well do. Can see both sides...

The 'squatters' may be likely to lose out, there might be some leeway but on the limited away allocation I can't see it.

[kalle-anka]

Again, I am looking for any ideas and suggestions on this - I suspect the Club will not want to encourage this as effectively they end up creating 'half season' tickets.

If you can't return a ticket and everyone you have on your friends/family list already is sorted you're just stuck with a ticket that can't be used by anyone..?
Knowing the clubs helpfulness towards members I'm pretty sure that all unused tickets won't count as a credit as well (a good thing in most cases)?

[Alf]

Again, I am looking for any ideas and suggestions on this - I suspect the Club will not want to encourage this as effectively they end up creating 'half season' tickets.

My thoughts were if they people returned tickets and the credit went to the person that goes. At present members can only return tickets by phone a fortnight before the game.

[swoopy]

on Facebook, only just recently seen this anyone know how much they sell them for? Looks like a fairly big operation

Deleted the name from the quote so as not to encourage touting

Someone I know shared a post from them yesterday as they were offering free pairs of tickets for various games for one person drawn at random!

Reading through a few of their posts, looks like they have over 30+ Cards in operation for all games. Interestingly they will only discuss pricing via private message

Loads of people posting to them "Thank you so much for sorting me tickets out etc. etc."

These are the sort of groups that need shutting down I'm sure.

[stoz]

The group in question seems to have disappeared?

[Claire.]

Split to it's own topic. As you were.

[Priest078]

The group in question seems to have disappeared?

Some of those comments, like thanks so much for sorting the tickets my kids were made up etc , makes you feel sick . Some people have more money than sense .
I read somewhere he said he had 55 cards to collect in.
That Facebook page will be back up no doubt before Spurs.

[Priest078]

United's away ticket collection today




Are the club thinking of doing something like that?

Must get confusing for them c*nts everyone being dressed in black.

[RMG]

If they had any sense they'd start with away's first. Might be harder to deal with but it's much less tickets, also once they've boxed that off it may make sorting out home games easier.

[Priest078]

If you are using a season ticket that isn't yours but have built up the loyalty then you are always running the risk that this will come crashing down on you.  A lad I know borrowed 2 ST's in the Kop for about 10 years then at the end of last season the owner wanted them back , nothing you can do, same for aways just enjoy it whilst you have got it.

[D🐶G]

Hard to say I know, but will this proposed Season Ticket amnesty be likely to make much of a dent in the extensive Season Ticket waiting list?

Also, do the club have any plans to change the way members tickets are distributed? For example, giving those who purchase and attend every home game a further priority sale period ahead of those with say 13 or 14 matches? Sure I read somewhere that the club were looking at the possibility of rewarding those fans who go every game game in some way, but no further explanation than that?

[ant]

thanks for all the information Graham !

I dont think OLSC's will have an allocation of tickets per game in the near future as it should not be a reason to be part of one - YNWA !

[Big Red Richie]

Hard to say I know, but will this proposed Season Ticket amnesty be likely to make much of a dent in the extensive Season Ticket waiting list?

Also, do the club have any plans to change the way members tickets are distributed? For example, giving those who purchase and attend every home game a further priority sale period ahead of those with say 13 or 14 matches? Sure I read somewhere that the club were looking at the possibility of rewarding those fans who go every game game in some way, but no further explanation than that?

Well it will in my case.

I've had my mates seasie for over a decade. I'm also less than 1000 on the waiting list.

So if they do an amnesty that involves friends as well as family, Ill just get my mates changed into my name, as he's said years ago that he'll never go again. He's just got out of the habit.

Again, the waiting list only comes down with any significance if more seasies are released by the club.

If say they release another 1000, I've got a choice to make.  Change the name on the one I'm using and keep the same seat, or hand that back and accept a new one if offered. Either way, it's one more seasie that gets recycled back into the numbers.

It wouldn't surprise me if quite a few were also in the same situation( depending where they are on the waiting list).

[Graham Smith]

Hard to say I know, but will this proposed Season Ticket amnesty be likely to make much of a dent in the extensive Season Ticket waiting list?

Also, do the club have any plans to change the way members tickets are distributed? For example, giving those who purchase and attend every home game a further priority sale period ahead of those with say 13 or 14 matches? Sure I read somewhere that the club were looking at the possibility of rewarding those fans who go every game game in some way, but no further explanation than that?

FROM PREVIOUS PAGE:

I have heard suggestions that maybe 10% minimum of tickets in the ground are touted.

Tickets in the wrong name but being 'legitimately' used vary too but out of say 26,000 STs there must be again 30% that will need to be looked at (and that is over above the touted tickets).

Getting as many of the reclaimed touted tickets into legitimate circulation might see say 3000 to 4000 recycled.

Of the 'wrong named' amnesty STs I think maybe another 5000 might get into circulation?

I am speculating with some little knowledge from discussions we have had in the Club (and no one will be certain until the stories of why tickets should be retained but renamed start) but you can see the massive impact this could have.

If at the same time some discussion takes place about a 're-organsation' of the ground so maybe younger people can be concentrated together in key areas (meaning the old guard being encouraged and incentivised to relocate) to help with atmosphere then we might have a quiet revolution.

When you add in maybe rail seating (and the possible increase in capacity that can give) plus an ARE extension we might start looking at close to a 65000+ stadium.

[D🐶G]

Thanks for that Graham. Is there any information with regards to the membership and if or how any changes will be implemented?

[SP]

They have made the sale much closer to the game and you have to pick the tickets up at the ground only a few days before the game and show ID, slightly disrupts touts.

And as has been said there has been more spot checking in the local sale areas - scores have been banned since the start of the season

Would the ideal solution be architectural? A dedicated "double" gate for the local tickets - collect them on the day - so you enter a gate, collect your ticket, then enter the ground. Thus the process of collection is the same as entry. Not practical for all tickets, but given the relatively low number of local tickets, it would be a simple way to enforce that the person collecting the ticket is the person watching the game. 

[Sir Afghan]

It's good news the club are looking at it as something needs to be done about touting and the mad season ticket name situation. My only thoughts are that i don't like the idea of fingerprints / facial recognition or any of that sort of thing being used - but i'm not really sure what the alternative would be that makes sure everyone is who they say they are.

Absolutely essential you can transfer tickets to friends at least 4/5 a season and that there is a fair re-sale situation with the club if you can't go because they sell the tickets so far in advance it's impossible to know if you're going to be free or not.

[noneoftheabove]

This is a good discussion thread. Some good ideas coming through and some good information provided by Graham.

[NickoH]

When you add in maybe rail seating (and the possible increase in capacity that can give) plus an ARE extension we might start looking at close to a 65000+ stadium.

By rail seating I presume you mean safe standing? If so, I can't see that happening due to the pressure from HFSG, etc.

And the Anny Road extension doesn't look likely to happen in the next few years if the whispers from the club are anything to go by.

[Shanklygates]

Someone mentioned about pick ups like the Euro aways for Augsburg etc - the thing that annoyed me with that is that the club allowed the person whose card it was on to keep the credit, not the person who actually travelled. They now sound like they want to make sure that is one and the same

If they had any sense they'd start with away's first. Might be harder to deal with but it's much less tickets, also once they've boxed that off it may make sorting out home games easier.

How can they? Until they get STs in the right names, they can't allocate the away credits. If they sort out the homes first, the someone could have a ST in their own name (from the amnesty), and hence if their aways are on it, they then become theirs.

[Birdontheshirt]

Also I think we ask that the club exchange is changed so you get a full credit for the cost of the ticket if you return it to be re-used, hardly anyone uses it as they take a charge for recycling it and then sell it for the full value. Removing the charge would encourage people to recycle properly.

I think this is really important.  And also that the club accept late returns on the exchange, and do all they can to sell them on. 

When someone is ill or has to work at short notice, this usually means a ticket is available for the exchange with less than the two weeks notice that the club currently require. 

Son was ill a few months ago, so we put his ticket on the exchange 8 days before match.  As the game was sold out, we expected that club would make the ticket available to members via late availability.  But club did nothing to sell it.  Ticket didn't show up on late availability and seat was empty when we got to the ground. Son ended up with no credit for it at all.  Can see why hardly anyone uses exchange currently.   

Either the club should legitimise passing on to family and friends, or should make it a proper functioning exchange for ticket return.  There's no point in having an exchange otherwise. 

[swoopy]

Son was ill a few months ago, so we put his ticket on the exchange 8 days before match.  As the game was sold out, we expected that club would make the ticket available to members via late availability.  But club did nothing to sell it.  Ticket didn't show up on late availability and seat was empty when we got to the ground. Son ended up with no credit for it at all.  Can see why hardly anyone uses exchange currently.   

Strange one that. Which game was that for?

Every game has been 'sold out' online as far as I'm aware. Or at least the Club say it is

[Sooty89!!!]

No formal discussions yet but the amnesty has been mooted for a couple of years. The new MS had to be finished before they started looking at it though.

Things that have been mentioned is to first get the season tickets in the right names of those using them - there are some people who legitimately have two, three or more season tickets in one name (you could buy batches in the 1990s). There are people who have been using a deceased relative's ticket for years who should be allowed to succeed to them. There will be hundreds of decent reasons why the user should get their name on a ticket in someone else's name.

Once that has been achieved then some technology might be used to make sure that the user is the owner but maybe allow a little flexibility - you might be able to add say five or six 'friends and family' at the start of each season who you could pass to a total of say three or four times a season. But there would be zero tolerance for passing on outside the rules. Zero.

Same for aways - credit hunting would end as the same connection between the buyer and user would be created but some latitude again for those that might miss one or two aways a season to be allowed to pass on and keep the credit.

Both sets of changes would see more STs released to help the waiting list and also target the touts and credit hunters for aways.

Idea is to ask supporters for views and ideas - one suggestion was if you bought from a tout for an away you tell the Club but you get the credit transferred to you and the tout loses all of theirs and gets banned.

Also I think we ask that the club exchange is changed so you get a full credit for the cost of the ticket if you return it to be re-used, hardly anyone uses it as they take a charge for recycling it and then sell it for the full value. Removing the charge would encourage people to recycle properly.

Whats the score with say a STH having away credits on there card and someone on there friends and family uses them? Will they be stopping that? How are they going to police that?

[Luke 17]

I think this is really important.  And also that the club accept late returns on the exchange, and do all they can to sell them on. 

When someone is ill or has to work at short notice, this usually means a ticket is available for the exchange with less than the two weeks notice that the club currently require. 

Son was ill a few months ago, so we put his ticket on the exchange 8 days before match.  As the game was sold out, we expected that club would make the ticket available to members via late availability.  But club did nothing to sell it.  Ticket didn't show up on late availability and seat was empty when we got to the ground. Son ended up with no credit for it at all.  Can see why hardly anyone uses exchange currently.   

Either the club should legitimise passing on to family and friends, or should make it a proper functioning exchange for ticket return.  There's no point in having an exchange otherwise.

Similar has happened to me before a few seasons ago. It's not a very good system

[Graham Smith]

Whats the score with say a STH having away credits on there card and someone on there friends and family uses them? Will they be stopping that? How are they going to police that?

I think they will do aways differently as there are less tickets for them and it is a pretty closed shop.

It might be you buy the ticket/you go on the ticket - if you  don't you lose the credit - (maybe allow one a season illness/shifts etc?)

I'd repeat these are all ideas washing around - nothing formal or definite.

[PaulKS]

Is that at a nearby hotel?

Sent from my SM-G357FZ using Tapatalk

It's Leicester Tigers ground just down the road

[filopastry]

In the wider Ticketing industry,  paperless Ticketing is the touting deterrent most widely used at present,  but the club is already down that path with the requirement to have a fancied on entry.

Would it make any difference if the ticket was tied to a bank/credit card and you had to have that with you at entry? It hasn't stopped touting at music events but has significantly reduced it when used

[Sooty89!!!]

I think they will do aways differently as there are less tickets for them and it is a pretty closed shop.

It might be you buy the ticket/you go on the ticket - if you  don't you lose the credit - (maybe allow one a season illness/shifts etc?)

I'd repeat these are all ideas washing around - nothing formal or definite.

Similar to someone above I know several people who log on to there own account and buy aways through a STH on there Friends and family. This is blatantly not touting and I think it would be unfair on people that have built the credits up (albeit on someone else' card) to miss out going aways. If they ever did anything similar to what United are doing I hope they can implement something whereby the person purchasing the ticket is still able to collect it although the credit goes to the STH with the credits

[Shanklygates]

That was me but I think these are the "squatters" Graham mentioned 

Will hit some of the flag lads and our atmosphere - but hard not to agree with it in a way!