Topic: The Anfield Wrap

[Fitzy.]

Just popping in to say the Facebook TAW subscribers is an absolute dustbin of attention seeking whoppery wrapped up in “well I’m entitled to my opinion” idiocy.

It’s as if there’s no football to talk about and the summer holidays have started!

[Kenny's Jacket]

Just popping in to say the Facebook TAW subscribers is an absolute dustbin of attention seeking whoppery wrapped up in “well I’m entitled to my opinion” idiocy.

It’s as if there’s no football to talk about and the summer holidays have started!

Thats all social media I'm afraid - Klopp out, Mane and Bobby need selling, we wont make top 4, FSG are using the no more homegrown slots to avoid buying anyone

[redgriffin73]

It's like Twitter sometimes on that FB page, you have to wade through the shite to find some good chat.

[Crosby Nick]

Yeah I have never looked at the TAW subscribers group on Facebook. I’m on there very rarely. Think that means I won’t be able to ask a question on the Football AFQ stuff but I’ll survive!

[Gods_Left_Boot]

Thats all social media I'm afraid - Klopp out, Mane and Bobby need selling, we wont make top 4, FSG are using the no more homegrown slots to avoid buying anyone

Normally the TAW group is decent and you can get a normal, balanced discussion going, but in the last couple of weeks (and particularly since the Gini interview) it's been terrible. I've had to mute the group for the first time in the two years that I've been on there because of the endless shite being regurgitated.

[Fitzy.]

Yesterday's Gutter was ok - again though, offering disgust at FSG as a preamble for your comments isn't, in itself, proof that FSG are doing a bad job nor is it evidence that the owners are being tight with money. It's just sweary fume that doesn't bare much resemblance to how the club is run, which - on the face of it - seems to be about making it stable and responsible.

I do think it's a perfectly valid position to dislike the owners based on some poor decisions - Super League, furlough, £77 tickets etc. However, until the moment that the squad falls off a cliff, I just don't see the rationale for the anger around transfers.

Apart from January 2021 when a CB should have been bought earlier in the window, when have FSG ever let the club down in transfers? Ok, Klopp's steady squad build has been in concert with FSG's financial prudence but the results have been spectacular. Putting this all down to Klopp might be your opinion, but it's a bit blinkered if you're going to discount the ownership.

Lashing insults at FSG in late July because of invented Twitter-based transfer rumours is approaching fandom fundamentally wrong - you're getting angry about something that isn't happening.

[Big Bamber]

[Acronym warning!] Yeah the FB subscribers group and The Gutter have been OTT in places in the last month. But as I have said a few times here, there are a good lump of supporters who hold these views and while it’s not for me, I think it’s important TAW keeps its USP of ‘sounding like the supporter base’ and doesn’t become a middle of the road pragmatic echo chamber. I’d prefer to occasionally hear badly-based passion rather than endless soulless accountant’s view of transfers. We can always swerve the mad stuff rather than try squash it.

[lamonti]

Football Miracles show are great. Have a couple I missed to go back to too!

[lamonti]

Always love Rory Smith and Neil Atko's chats. Brililiant.

Which show was this on?

[Crosby Nick]

Which show was this on?

It’s called Midnight Caller

[Big Bamber]

It’s called Midnight Caller

It’s the pendulum swung the other way! 😂

EDIT: Please please please have Kev on with Rory next time, instead of Neil. Would be so good.

[DangerScouse]

Yesterday's Gutter was ok - again though, offering disgust at FSG as a preamble for your comments isn't, in itself, proof that FSG are doing a bad job nor is it evidence that the owners are being tight with money. It's just sweary fume that doesn't bare much resemblance to how the club is run, which - on the face of it - seems to be about making it stable and responsible.

I do think it's a perfectly valid position to dislike the owners based on some poor decisions - Super League, furlough, £77 tickets etc. However, until the moment that the squad falls off a cliff, I just don't see the rationale for the anger around transfers.

Apart from January 2021 when a CB should have been bought earlier in the window, when have FSG ever let the club down in transfers? Ok, Klopp's steady squad build has been in concert with FSG's financial prudence but the results have been spectacular. Putting this all down to Klopp might be your opinion, but it's a bit blinkered if you're going to discount the ownership.

Lashing insults at FSG in late July because of invented Twitter-based transfer rumours is approaching fandom fundamentally wrong - you're getting angry about something that isn't happening.

Well we certainly weren't responsible last season  when many fans were crying out for a centre half after selling Lovren and they didn't back the manager. The club haven't backed Klopp as much as they should have and to dismiss any criticism of them as unfounded and unwarranted is quite baffling to me. He is irreplaceable and his results will prove irreplicable once he leaves unless there is a fundamental approach in their backing of the manager(s).

[Raaphael]

As I’ve said before-I can listen to Rob Gutmann all day. The Gutter is my favourite show. What I don’y get though is all the talk about Adama Traore. Through the summer I’ve seen rumours of Niguez, Chiesa, Doku, Bowen, Gravenberch, Sanches, Aouar, Vlahovic-but I’ve not seen Traore linked once. Maybe I haven’t seen all the links, but I’ve never got the impression Traore is a player any semi- serious journalist has linked us to.

[red_Mark1980]

Lashing insults at FSG in late July because of invented Twitter-based transfer rumours is approaching fandom fundamentally wrong - you're getting angry about something that isn't happening.

Also smashing against the super League and a few months later demanding for investment and paying players £400k a week seems a little at odds

[Fitzy.]

Well we certainly weren't responsible last season  when many fans were crying out for a centre half after selling Lovren and they didn't back the manager. The club haven't backed Klopp as much as they should have and to dismiss any criticism of them as unfounded and unwarranted is quite baffling to me. He is irreplaceable and his results will prove irreplicable once he leaves unless there is a fundamental approach in their backing of the manager(s).

I did mention January and CBs.

[AndyInVA]

Still listening to Hillsborough Survivors Stories. Thank you thank you. Very well put together. A hard but great listen and a constant reminder how hard everyone fought for the truth to come out.

[the 92A]

The women in football show made me think a bit , easy for something like that to, understandably, end up as as a list of grievances and a space to let off steam which is fair enough if you’re putting up with shit and don’t usually have anywhere to talk about it but the danger is you don’t bring anyone along with you and help change attitudes but I thought generally it avoided that  and it was thought provoking.
Im an old school Scouser seen it all go with the lads.  my lad wasn’t really into the game but my daughter loved going the match and whenever spares came up with the lads I took her. As she grew up she was accepted by my match going mates and they'd box her off with spares  now she’s in her twenties and holds her own and has been to Europe where amongst other things  she has had to put up with me allowing  a carload of hoteless mates to kip in our room and she has handled  it well but the game is changing and there has to be space for her on her own terms. The best part of going the game is that brilliant feeling of being part of something bigger than yourself you get it at a big European game, a good away end, that feeling of being one influencing the game losing your individual feelings and not caring because it being replaced by being part of something special thousands of you all-in it together acting as one its a feeling we all desire on a basic human level it makes our souls feel enormous, now it’s shit if that ultimate high is spoilt by not being fully accepted by what you’re part of.
When you’re shit on like we felt through out the 70s and 80s by Thatcher  and at times it felt like the rest of the country. you band together and try not to give a shit, you celebrate what others hate and wear it as badge of pride. Scouse and proud. When you’re being attacked that can be really positive and a way of saying fuck you and fighting back but also can sometimes lead to you circling your wagons defining your self narrowly and excluding people from your club but ironically that fightback sometimes made us more attractive to others that also felt excluded and  never fitted in, that  and  I suppose, our wonderful football,  thats one of the reasons our fanbase is quite diverse  that makes me proud. 
More women are involved in football and generally it feels like attitudes are changing  for the better  but there’s still away to go if gender is not an issue for the next generation. Thought Emilia steered it well calling out shit but avoiding the trap of not bringing us along with her which is a difficult balance. it gave me a bit of insight to some of the things that face female fans that shouldn’t be issues but are.

[Kashinoda]

I don't usually thought/word police but bloody hell... I've heard 'made of crisps' and 'made of quavers' numerous times this week, bin it off lads (and lasses). It's cringe as fuck and quite insulting, you're not edgy 14 year olds.

[Fromola]

Also smashing against the super League and a few months later demanding for investment and paying players £400k a week seems a little at odds

And very much against furlough, Super League and higher ticket prices, but at the same time demand this player or that player.

FSG's transfer strategy can be frustrating but we aren't Man City. We've been battered financially by the pandemic, are building a new stand and have just built a new training ground. We've also got one of the top wage bills in football and are currently negotiating new contracts for half the team (which will also cost a lot in agents fees etc) and sorted the main priority by signing a centre back (even if it should have been addressed last season). At least see where we are at the end of the window.

I do tend to think 'make hay while the sun shines' while we have Jurgen, but money doesn't grow on trees. FSG are never going to go wild in the transfer market, unless the books balance at the end of it.

[redgriffin73]

I don't usually thought/word police but bloody hell... I've heard 'made of crisps' and 'made of quavers' numerous times this week, bin it off lads (and lasses). It's cringe as fuck and quite insulting, you're not edgy 14 year olds.

Thought it was just me bored of that phrase (and all its variations), it is everywhere these days.

[BassTunedToRed]

As I’ve said before-I can listen to Rob Gutmann all day. The Gutter is my favourite show. What I don’y get though is all the talk about Adama Traore. Through the summer I’ve seen rumours of Niguez, Chiesa, Doku, Bowen, Gravenberch, Sanches, Aouar, Vlahovic-but I’ve not seen Traore linked once. Maybe I haven’t seen all the links, but I’ve never got the impression Traore is a player any semi- serious journalist has linked us to.

It was reported in 2015 that Traore was on a flight to Liverpool, ready to sign a contract... and the stories have never gone away since. Klopp repeatedly saying how good he is has obviously kept the rumours alive too.

[Caffeine]

The start of Miracles part four is hilarious!

[Jookie]

Yesterday's Gutter was ok - again though, offering disgust at FSG as a preamble for your comments isn't, in itself, proof that FSG are doing a bad job nor is it evidence that the owners are being tight with money. It's just sweary fume that doesn't bare much resemblance to how the club is run, which - on the face of it - seems to be about making it stable and responsible.

I do think it's a perfectly valid position to dislike the owners based on some poor decisions - Super League, furlough, £77 tickets etc. However, until the moment that the squad falls off a cliff, I just don't see the rationale for the anger around transfers.

Apart from January 2021 when a CB should have been bought earlier in the window, when have FSG ever let the club down in transfers? Ok, Klopp's steady squad build has been in concert with FSG's financial prudence but the results have been spectacular. Putting this all down to Klopp might be your opinion, but it's a bit blinkered if you're going to discount the ownership.

Lashing insults at FSG in late July because of invented Twitter-based transfer rumours is approaching fandom fundamentally wrong - you're getting angry about something that isn't happening.

Didn't listen to the episode when I saw who the guests were.

I understand that TAW need to represent the range of views within the fanbase and the range of views within the TAW contributors. But I don't think there's enough challenge when opinions get to the extremes. Or at least what I view as the extremes. In the case of FSG the extremes would be 'they never provide any money and they should be funding 100M transfers to keep up with City' through to 'FSG are the perfect owners and have made very few mistakes'.

I don't think you need to go to the extremes to have a proper debate, whether that's about FSG, a certain players attributes or any other footballing matter. I want to stress that l don't think it happens on TAW that much but there is a propensity for certain contributors to do that on occasions. That's fine but they should be challenged by the host (independent of the hosts personally feelings on the issue). I think Neil does this well, probably Gareth and Andy to some extent too. I don't think Rob does as much, particularly if it aligns with his own views.

It's obviously part of the philosophy of TAW to want contributions from every contributor without any censorship. But equally there sometimes feels like there's a directive for contributors not to be that combative with each other or challenge each persons opinions strongly. Feel like at times more extreme opinions can get put out there without any real challenge. That's my only real minor gripe with TAW overall. Obviously there are a few contributors I don't like listening to but that will be the same for everyone and pretty much what you'd expect after listening to same voices for years.

[Big Bamber]

I don't usually thought/word police but bloody hell... I've heard 'made of crisps' and 'made of quavers' numerous times this week, bin it off lads (and lasses). It's cringe as fuck and quite insulting, you're not edgy 14 year olds.

“Living their best lives” and “having a lovely time” are other over-worn phrases that pre-season seems to given a regrettable boost to.

[John C]

“Living their best lives” and “having a lovely time” are other over-worn phrases that pre-season seems to given a regrettable boost to.

I haven't listened to any shows this week, maybe for reasons posted by others, but I'm all in on the having a lovely time mode. I bet Neil said it?
It's good, they are, and we all should be having a lovely time.

[Big Bamber]

I haven't listened to any shows this week, maybe for reasons posted by others, but I'm all in on the having a lovely time mode. I bet Neil said it?
It's good, they are, and we all should be having a lovely time.

Oh every right-minded human being is all in on the attitude, but stop fuck*ng saying it! The words hinder the feeling!

[red_Mark1980]

The women in football show made me think a bit , easy for something like that to,

Snipped
Wanted to echo this. I don't have a daughter but I'm good friends with a  female STH.

I'd like to think I've never treated her differently or talked down to her, but may broach it with her the next time I'm at the match.

On the "celebrating" with fans. I find it uncomfortable celebrating with someone I don't know. Male or female.  Personally in those unreal moments (Origi 90+6 etc) I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be hugging or touching a stranger who's female precisely because of what the ladies said on the show about creepy guys grabbing a feel.

[vivabobbygraham]

Oh every right-minded human being is all in on the attitude, but stop fuck*ng saying it! The words hinder the feeling!

Look, if they wanna 'pull the trigger' on stuff like that, it's up to them...

[Fitzy.]

The interesting thing about online abuse - be it sexist, homophobic or racist - is that I’m broadly incubated from it. Twitter operates in such a way that such traffic doesn’t come down my road. That’s actually quite a cynical state of affairs. If people on the receiving end didn’t speak about it, most folk would be oblivious to such unpleasantness.

[Levitz]

Snipped
Wanted to echo this. I don't have a daughter but I'm good friends with a  female STH.

I'd like to think I've never treated her differently or talked down to her, but may broach it with her the next time I'm at the match.

On the "celebrating" with fans. I find it uncomfortable celebrating with someone I don't know. Male or female.  Personally in those unreal moments (Origi 90+6 etc) I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be hugging or touching a stranger who's female precisely because of what the ladies said on the show about creepy guys grabbing a feel.

So, as a female supporter who does majority of homes, lots of European aways and PL aways if and when I can get a spare, I was pleased to see the show. I think the Wrap scores pretty well in inclusion of women generally, and has come on a lot since the earlier days but I think it was a bit of a missed opportunity.

Although they said they were going to have two parts one match going fans and one about working in football media, this I think this one actually also fell naturally too much into the latter category just because of the nature/role of the people discussing it occupy ie somewhere between fan and media. So there's was lots on what being a fan media contributor is like at the expense of other lived experience. When they did the show on racism I remember them interviewing regular match goers (specifically remember them talking to AP) and I thought this show really missed that.

It missed interviewing the people they were talking about, the older ladies who've been going for decades, the younger ones going now, women of colour, those that travel to aways and European games and what that is like. It's a shame as I think that perspective could have made the show much richer.

[red_Mark1980]

So, as a female supporter who does majority of homes, lots of European aways and PL aways if and when I can get a spare, I was pleased to see the show. I think the Wrap scores pretty well in inclusion of women generally, and has come on a lot since the earlier days but I think it was a bit of a missed opportunity.

Although they said they were going to have two parts one match going fans and one about working in football media, this I think this one actually also fell naturally too much into the latter category just because of the nature/role of the people discussing it occupy ie somewhere between fan and media. So there's was lots on what being a fan media contributor is like at the expense of other lived experience. When they did the show on racism I remember them interviewing regular match goers (specifically remember them talking to AP) and I thought this show really missed that.

It missed interviewing the people they were talking about, the older ladies who've been going for decades, the younger ones going now, women of colour, those that travel to aways and European games and what that is like. It's a shame as I think that perspective could have made the show much richer.

That's a good point. It's worth mentioning as a lot of the paid members of the Wrap regularly pop in on the thread.

I'm fully aware that I'm saying this as someone who looks like a lot of staff of the wrap (white men) but they try to understand more than most.

Like (I think it was Harriet) who said none of us are perfect and we'll get things wrong.

[craiglfc7]

So, as a female supporter who does majority of homes, lots of European aways and PL aways if and when I can get a spare, I was pleased to see the show. I think the Wrap scores pretty well in inclusion of women generally, and has come on a lot since the earlier days but I think it was a bit of a missed opportunity.

Although they said they were going to have two parts one match going fans and one about working in football media, this I think this one actually also fell naturally too much into the latter category just because of the nature/role of the people discussing it occupy ie somewhere between fan and media. So there's was lots on what being a fan media contributor is like at the expense of other lived experience. When they did the show on racism I remember them interviewing regular match goers (specifically remember them talking to AP) and I thought this show really missed that.

It missed interviewing the people they were talking about, the older ladies who've been going for decades, the younger ones going now, women of colour, those that travel to aways and European games and what that is like. It's a shame as I think that perspective could have made the show much richer.

Will pass this on!

[Levitz]

Will pass this on!

Cheers. As I said I think you guys do pretty well, and I know the contributors were talking from their experience so it’s all valid.

[Fitzy.]

The thing with prejudice is that, in the main, it manifests itself subtly and without obvious detection. It’s not usually as crude as being horrific on social media or marching with terrible people. Since the BLM stuff emerged I’ve started to question my own feelings, perspectives and even potential micro-aggressions that are very hard to be aware of even in your own behaviour. This transfers to issues of gender and sexism.

When listening to TAW with a contributor I’m less keen on I’ve recently been more open to the idea that I’m the one with the issue rather than the person on a show. For example, there’s a female contributor who I don’t massively rate - is this because she’s a young female and I’m a 41 year old man? Maybe. Am i part of the problem? Maybe. Is it because I just don’t rate this person? Maybe.

It’s quite complex but I think being open to your own foibles is a decent starting point.

[PaulD]

Top post!

[KillieRed]

I enjoyed the show on Michael Robinson, which was very well put together.

Also, Sid Lowe outed himself (to me at least) as a Red.

[Fitzy.]

Might be (probably) my end, but the sound on the second pink yesterday was quite poor - wasn't getting anything in my right ear and generally not too sharp. Know nothing about such matters so accept I may well be the problem...

[vivabobbygraham]

Loved the upbeatness of the Alisson signing piece. Neil in full flow, a joy to listen too. I laughed my arse off on hearing the term, 'lickspittle', with reference to the twatterites, positively Dickensian, hadn't heard it in years. Used it immediately on my 16 year old who had no clue. Boss

[[new username under construction]]

Bit of a beauty and the Beast on LFC vs Bologna FC Reaction

[royhendo]

I enjoyed the show on Michael Robinson, which was very well put together.

Also, Sid Lowe outed himself (to me at least) as a Red.

Yeah he said it straight out - I am a Liverpool fan. Enjoyed that show a lot. He sounded lovely Michael Robinson - mate of mine from Brighton knew him as a younger man and speaks very fondly of him.