Topic: Squad depth and rotation

[mattD]

I think rotation is absolutely necessary for next season IF we get European football. I don't doubt that Klopp is under any illusions that squad depth isn't important and I expect major reinforcements in the summer if we do qualify, but if we are to make an impact on various fronts next season then it's no use carrying on with current state of the squad.

Rafa's reign in hindsight proved the benefits of rotation as we often competed in various competitions long into a season, despite many misgivings at the time.

I sincerely hope some of the young lads in the youth academy continue their development though as it is imperative that if we want to compete amongst higher spenders, then a lot of the talent will have to be produced from within. Not only is it symbolically important for a club to emphasise youth development, but its a major factor in smaller budget teams defeating bigger budgets ones.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Yes, I think this about Milner too. He is the ideal utility player. Experienced, highly versatile, strong and athletic, great work ethic, a winner's mentality. For me he could continue to be one of the most important and influential players in the squad even when no longer a part of the strongest 11. There are so many places he could play, allowing the manager more 'possibilities' (good god I still love Rafa) in terms of rest, rotation and tactical switches.

Getting in a specialist LB, really top quality, allows us to do this.

I'm with you on this. If we could sign a left back like Benjamin Mendy; tall, powerful & quick while possessing excellent delivery, it would allow Milner to cover not only both full-back positions (although it remains to be seen how he would fare on the right - yes it's his natural side but the same passing lanes would not be available to him), but also in midfield and at a push out wide too. That would be a big boost for the squad depth especially as he's not a player who picks up many injuries.

He should be our Grosskreutz, basically, but a much better version.

It's little things like this where I think qualifying for the CL is important, purely because I think it'll force Klopp's hand on a few issues. If the league is our only major priority, then sticking with Milner there and Moreno as back-up for another season becomes tempting, but throw in the CL as well and all of a sudden Klopp has a dilemma because I think it's obvious his trust in Moreno in important games has diminished.

[Klippity Klopp]

I'm with you on this. If we could sign a left back like Benjamin Mendy; tall, powerful & quick while possessing excellent delivery, it would allow Milner to cover not only both full-back positions (although it remains to be seen how he would fare on the right - yes it's his natural side but the same passing lanes would not be available to him), but also in midfield and at a push out wide too. That would be a big boost for the squad depth especially as he's not a player who picks up many injuries.

He should be our Grosskreutz, basically, but a much better version.

I like the idea of Milner covering both full back positions or being options along with the others.  I also don't mind him being used on the right in the 4-2-3-1 formation in a more attacking role.

However I do not want to see Milner in CM ever again personally after watching him in that role last season under Klopp.  He just isn't disciplined enough for the role IMO.  At left back he knows he has to be disciplined, so he does it.  In midfield he just follows the ball and that can lead to trouble.

But given his wages & age, I'm not sure he should be kept on.  But that's a discussion for the summer.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I like the idea of Milner covering both full back positions or being options along with the others.  I also don't mind him being used on the right in the 4-2-3-1 formation in a more attacking role.

However I do not want to see Milner in CM ever again personally after watching him in that role last season under Klopp.  He just isn't disciplined enough for the role IMO.  At left back he knows he has to be disciplined, so he does it.  In midfield he just follows the ball and that can lead to trouble.

But given his wages & age, I'm not sure he should be kept on.  But that's a discussion for the summer.

It's not a discussion for this summer. I assume he's got two years left on his contract, he's one of the few experienced winners we've got in our squad, and he excels in a number of positions. He's going nowhere.

As for playing in central midfield, I thought he did okay but equally I felt sorry for him at times last season. Generally he was playing next to Can or Lucas in a 4-2-3-1, basically doing the donkey work of four men ahead of him. In a 4-3-3 I think he'd look a lot better, as he did at Manchester City when we won 4-1 for example. Give him one side of the pitch to press, cover and support and he'll do it well.

[Klippity Klopp]

It's not a discussion for this summer. I assume he's got two years left on his contract, he's one of the few experienced winners we've got in our squad, and he excels in a number of positions. He's going nowhere.

As for playing in central midfield, I thought he did okay but equally I felt sorry for him at times last season. Generally he was playing next to Can or Lucas in a 4-2-3-1, basically doing the donkey work of four men ahead of him. In a 4-3-3 I think he'd look a lot better, as he did at Manchester City when we won 4-1 for example. Give him one side of the pitch to press, cover and support and he'll do it well.

I don't think he will go, so yeah it probably isn't a discussion (I think it should be given his age / might not be a regular & his wages - but I can see what he offers as well).

I don't really go with the tag that he's a "winner".  He was in a squad that won things at Man City.  He was not a key player or regular, which is why he left here. 

I didn't feel sorry for him at all in CM last season.  He didn't do his job.  You mention Can, who was brilliant in some games alongside Milner and it was Can who was like the one man midfield as Milner was rarely in the position he should have been in.

I don't want to be down on him, as I think he has done very well at LB, except for that poor month in January, where I think he looked very tired due to the amount of games we had. 

He is brilliant in those six a side games as well in training.  I have watched a few of them on LFCTV and he bosses them. 

To sum up, I can see why Klopp likes him, I'm happy for him to stay.  But I don't want to see him in CM again.  When he's still a regular like he is, then his wages aren't an issue.  When he starts becoming a fringe / squad player, then it could be.

[JackWard33]

Thought this was interesting on squad building / choices at Newcastle

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/how-rafa-benitezs-weakest-link-12641688

The 'weakest link' idea was basically proven a decent amount of time ago but its paid very little mind by anyone in or around football

[cdav]

Thought this was interesting on squad building / choices at Newcastle

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/how-rafa-benitezs-weakest-link-12641688

The 'weakest link' idea was basically proven a decent amount of time ago but its paid very little mind by anyone in or around football

Thanks for the article, it is an interesting read and I would be interested in some thoughts on how this would apply to our squad over the summer. It could be argued we need to address the glaring holes (LB, winger) first rather than weakest links!

[JackWard33]

Thanks for the article, it is an interesting read and I would be interested in some thoughts on how this would apply to our squad over the summer. It could be argued we need to address the glaring holes (LB, winger) first rather than weakest links!

Charitable of you not to list Goalkeeper which is where I'd start

It's hard because player opinion is so subjective. We'll never find common ground on here if you ask 'who are our weakest players?'

But it could change the type of analysis and conclusion you come to
So an example might be our striker position .... there's a pretty animated conversation going on in the LFC fan media sphere about buying another striker, whether Firmino scores enough goals to be a 9, who plays there if he doesn't, etc etc
Where as if you look at that problem upgrading Firmino so you had a player at the 9 who was clearly better than him is going to a) cost you a metric fuckton of money and b) because there's probably only one level above him in football at that position (i.e. truly elite strikers) its very high risk because your chances of getting that player and them working out are slim
So it might be desirable to have a 9 that shoots more and scores more than Bobby but making it a priority makes little sense because he's already doing 90% of what you want. The same type of analysis would probably apply to a more controversial (for some reason) player in Henderson. Yes if you could get someone that does everything Jordan does at the 6 but who was also a super creative passer you could upgrade him - but it makes little sense to try for similar reasons.

If you're looking at improving weaknesses rather than strengths in a squad sense we should probably be doing 2 things. 1) taking risks (i.e. spending significantly) to upgrade our weakest first team players  and 2) spending smaller but effective money to improve our weakest squad positions
So you could make two lists.... first a short list of our weakest first teamers. Then second a medium sized list of our weakest cover positions (i.e. when the first teamer is out who plays there)

Dunno... I'm typing this on the fly but something like that

[cdav]

Charitable of you not to list Goalkeeper which is where I'd start

It's hard because player opinion is so subjective. We'll never find common ground on here if you ask 'who are our weakest players?'

But it could change the type of analysis and conclusion you come to
So an example might be our striker position .... there's a pretty animated conversation going on in the LFC fan media sphere about buying another striker, whether Firmino scores enough goals to be a 9, who plays there if he doesn't, etc etc
Where as if you look at that problem upgrading Firmino so you had a player at the 9 who was clearly better than him is going to a) cost you a metric fuckton of money and b) because there's probably only one level above him in football at that position (i.e. truly elite strikers) its very high risk because your chances of getting that player and them working out are slim
So it might be desirable to have a 9 that shoots more and scores more than Bobby but making it a priority makes little sense because he's already doing 90% of what you want. The same type of analysis would probably apply to a more controversial (for some reason) player in Henderson. Yes if you could get someone that does everything Jordan does at the 6 but who was also a super creative passer you could upgrade him - but it makes little sense to try for similar reasons.

If you're looking at improving weaknesses rather than strengths in a squad sense we should probably be doing 2 things. 1) taking risks (i.e. spending significantly) to upgrade our weakest first team players  and 2) spending smaller but effective money to improve our weakest squad positions
So you could make two lists.... first a short list of our weakest first teamers. Then second a medium sized list of our weakest cover positions (i.e. when the first teamer is out who plays there)

Dunno... I'm typing this on the fly but something like that

My point was that whilst goalkeepers may be a weak link (we have two OK ones, but a weakness in the starting 11)- we have no players Klopp really can trust beyond Milner for left back and Mane for a winger.

We are going to be juggling multiple competing demands this summer- quality additions to the first team, quality and a quantity of additions to the squad- it will be really interesting in how we approach it. Klopp is obviously taking a long term view on how he is building his squad, it will be interesting to see what positions he targets and also how much he is prepared to spend on each position required.

[wige]

I'd love to see us sign a clinical, brilliant all round CF. I love Firmino and think he's proved himself our best central striker this season, but, that said - I'd love if he was our rotation option behind a 'Torres', 'Suarez', 'Costa' or 'Drogba'.

Having that player that dispatches a half chance, or just rolls up his sleeves and wins you a game through his own sheer brilliance... That's what I want. Who that is, where we find him and if he wants to join Liverpool are the questions though. Others may have ideas, but I don't! So, due to the difficulty of finding that player, this signing isn't a key one for me, if that makes any kind of sense.

- A quick forward, comfortable starting from a/the flank/s - We have to have cover for Mane in terms of pace up top/out wide.
- Central Defender (Would love us to sign VVD. Cost almost irrelevant. Him and Matip sorts us for about 8 years imo)
- Central Midfielder - I'm a huge fan of Henderson, Lallana and Wijnaldum as a three, and still think Can has the potential to be one of the best in Europe, but, we need someone to push those starting three. Maybe we can kinda cheat here by adding the dream CF and pacey wide forward and drop Coutinho back to play with or instead of Lallana/Wij...
- GK. Migs has improved, but I don't think he's ever going to be elite. Karius still needs time, imo. If we want to win titles and European Cups, which we should, then a top GK is essential.

I see the general consensus is we need a left back as well. Maybe, but I'm not that bothered. I wouldn't be diverting transfer fee/wage funds from the above targets to strengthen there. Milner is absolutely fine, and I still think with further development Moreno will be at worst a useful squad option.

After those key signings, I'd maybe look at another forward and centre half, if funds are available, but would be keeping youth prospects (Ojo/Gomez/Ejaria/Woodburn) in mind here and ensuring that those we think have a future have a route into the squad..

For me, we shouldn't be bringing more than 6 players as a maximum. A group needs time to gel and grow and too much change and disruption makes that difficult.

If we get CL football, or better, then we absolutely are in a position to focus on quality over quantity. Squad development should be achieved through strengthening the starting 11.

Fire away..

[Klippity Klopp]

Depth is not really a new problem. 

Some of our best teams the last 20 years have lacked depth:

Bench v Roma Uefa Cup 2001:

Arphexad, Vignal, Wright, Smicer, Diomede, Navarro, Fowler.

Not great, although that is probably misleading as certain positions we did have the right depth that season with Fowler / Litmanen back up for Owen / Heskey for example.

Bench v Leverkusen 2005:

Carson, Warnock, Potter, Welsh, Smicer, Nunez, Le Tallec.

In 13/14 when we came 2nd in the League, the players on the bench the most that season weren't exactly the depth required either:



When we lost the title to Man U in 08/09, we lacked depth:



When Man U could lose Rooney, Ronaldo & Tevez - yet still have ample match winners in Berbatov, Saha, Scholes, Giggs for example.  If Torres got injured we had Ngog.

If you look at us now, we have depth with someone like Sturridge.  But he's doesn't really suit the brand of football.  That is probably more of the issue.  Getting the right profile of player to suit Klopp.  As Origi probably suits us more if Firmino gets injured upfront than Sturridge does, despite not having the quality Sturridge has in terms of finishing.

I often think players who can play a couple of positions in the first XI to a really top standard makes a massive difference for this.  For example players like Suarez, Eto'o, Muller, Sanchez - who can play wide or central depending on what the teams needs.  I pretty sure Mane could do a similar job if he was used on the left, right or central in the front three. 

But depth isn't anything new for LFC really.

[JackWard33]

I'd love to see us sign a clinical, brilliant all round CF. I love Firmino and think he's proved himself our best central striker this season, but, that said - I'd love if he was our rotation option behind a 'Torres', 'Suarez', 'Costa' or 'Drogba'.

I'm sure you would! 
But good questions to ask are..... how much would that cost? what would be the marginal gain on getting that player? what would you lose without Firmino at the 9? if you don't play Firmino at the 9 what are you doing with him? (the correct but unpalatable answer is to sell him by the way) , what are the % chances you get that player and it doesn't work out and finally what's the opportunity cost of spending to get  that player and not using the money elsewhere?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

My point was that whilst goalkeepers may be a weak link (we have two OK ones, but a weakness in the starting 11)- we have no players Klopp really can trust beyond Milner for left back and Mane for a winger.

Can you clarify this statement? Lallana and Coutinho are our two most talented players (along with Sturridge but he's not putting that talent into performances so it's kinda irrelevant) and have just signed long-term deals. They both start every important game they're fit for. He also clearly loves Firmino. Three attacking players right there he's hugely trusted from day one, to the point that he's sacrificed playing an out-and-out nine many times in order to get them playing together as a front three (or now four with Mané).

Then you've got Clyne who is Mr Reliable and Henderson who he has favoured over Can as an "international class number six" this season. His words not mine.

With those two you mention plus those five I mention that's seven players I think he definitely 'trusts'.

It's perhaps too early to put Lovren and Matip as a partnership within that bracket but I personally think they have done well together this season. He will almost certainly trust one of the two as a first choice centre back next season.

Wijnaldum is a weird one because although he clearly likes him, he has chosen Can ahead of him plenty of times too, so I think that is a position still up for grabs despite Gini's big game excellence.

You can't say he trusts either goalkeeper because he's flip-flopped between the two. But equally, he appears to view Karius as his long-term number one, and Mignolet received a five-year contract not all that long ago. It may well have been to preserve his value, but it could also have been a show of faith to remain in the squad for the long haul. I don't think it's a certainty in the slightest that we buy a goalkeeper this summer.

So overall I think a) you do down how many of our players Klopp trusts and rates as a first-team player and therefore b) I only see a maximum of four or five first-team spots up for grabs this summer, and within that I only see one near-certainty (a top-class centre back with a top-class injury record). Goalkeeper, left back, central midfielder, winger, striker - I'd be amazed if we were to get all of them.

[wige]

I'm sure you would! 
But good questions to ask are..... how much would that cost?

- A shit load of money!! unless we find some bloke from the Polish league for £3m...

what would be the marginal gain on getting that player?

- More goals. Hopefully more first/second goals when the games are tighter and teams are still holding out for a point, or a late equaliser. Another genuine, fear inducing threat up front. A player other brilliant players want to play with.

what would you lose without Firmino at the 9?

- I think that depends what the replacement brings? Say we sign the next Suarez - Are we losing that much from Firmino then?

If you don't play Firmino at the 9 what are you doing with him? (the correct but unpalatable answer is to sell him by the way)

- I dont think the correct answer is to sell him. I think the correct answer is to keep Firmino in the squad, keep him motivated, give him CL/Prem/FA/EFL games. I don't see why we shouldn't aim to have excellent players on the bench. Firmino is an excellent player.

what are the % chances you get that player and it doesn't work out

- About 50% according to Tomkins

 and finally what's the opportunity cost of spending to get  that player and not using the money elsewhere?

- Huge. Unless first point comes true. My post didn't say we should do it at all costs though and at the expense of other signings:

"Who that is, where we find him and if he wants to join Liverpool are the questions though. Others may have ideas, but I don't! So, due to the difficulty of finding that player, this signing isn't a key one for me, if that makes any kind of sense"

The four positions under the CF part are the key signings. We must strengthen our forward line with pace, we must strengthen at CB - I think these are borderline facts, rather than my, or anyone else's opinions. GK and CM are my opinions though, I could understand if we don't buy here and focus resources elsewhere, if Jurgen thinks what we have already is good enough and has the capacity to improve to the required standard.

[cdav]

Can you clarify this statement? Lallana and Coutinho are our two most talented players (along with Sturridge but he's not putting that talent into performances so it's kinda irrelevant) and have just signed long-term deals. They both start every important game they're fit for. He also clearly loves Firmino. Three attacking players right there he's hugely trusted from day one, to the point that he's sacrificed playing an out-and-out nine many times in order to get them playing together as a front three (or now four with Mané).

Then you've got Clyne who is Mr Reliable and Henderson who he has favoured over Can as an "international class number six" this season. His words not mine.

With those two you mention plus those five I mention that's seven players I think he definitely 'trusts'.

It's perhaps too early to put Lovren and Matip as a partnership within that bracket but I personally think they have done well together this season. He will almost certainly trust one of the two as a first choice centre back next season.

Wijnaldum is a weird one because although he clearly likes him, he has chosen Can ahead of him plenty of times too, so I think that is a position still up for grabs despite Gini's big game excellence.

You can't say he trusts either goalkeeper because he's flip-flopped between the two. But equally, he appears to view Karius as his long-term number one, and Mignolet received a five-year contract not all that long ago. It may well have been to preserve his value, but it could also have been a show of faith to remain in the squad for the long haul. I don't think it's a certainty in the slightest that we buy a goalkeeper this summer.

So overall I think a) you do down how many of our players Klopp trusts and rates as a first-team player and therefore b) I only see a maximum of four or five first-team spots up for grabs this summer, and within that I only see one near-certainty (a top-class centre back with a top-class injury record). Goalkeeper, left back, central midfielder, winger, striker - I'd be amazed if we were to get all of them.

I meant trusts to bring into those positions without moving everyone else around (he blatantly has about 13 players he currently trusts to play, but we need more).

For leftback, who would everyone play in a crunch match against say Man City away? Would you trust the current reserve left back, Moreno, or try and move Clyne to left back and bring in Trent at right back? My point was, if someone is missing we absolutely should not be moving a few of our best players round the team to accommodate this- we would need a back up good quality left back Klopp absolutely trusts to fill the role. For Mane, when he was out we ended up moving one of our most effective players this year, Lallana, out of position due to a lack of suitable replacements. Same with Coutinho being injured and us moving Firmino out of position and resulting in him, and the team, being less effective.

We need a good back up left back, plus I would argue a wide player (who can play left or right) and a forward who can play wide or lead the line. Plus we need a cb, another cm and, if available, a brilliant top level goalkeeper (I'd rather not waste money on a marginal improvement here). Its arguably too much to do in one summer and bring in sufficient quality.

In terms of out field players, we'd then have;

Defence: Clyne and TAA as RB. Matip, Lovren, new signing, with Klaven and Gomez as cover for CB. Milner and new signing for LB
Midfield: Henderson, Lallana, Wijnaldum, Can, new signing with Grujic, Coutinho and Milner who can cover
Forwards: Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Origi, new winger, new forward with cover from Ings, Woodburn and Milner

That looks much healthier and balanced, with numbers better balanced across the squad and hopefully better options for rotating due to injuries, form and fixture congestion (you'd hope for 18 outfield players trusted with other decent options as cover from this squad list). The three biggest signings for me would be both forwards and the midfielder (because I like lots of good options who can win games!).

[redk84]

I think Klopp will build on his first 11 as much as he can....players that he will drop in and out will be more out of necessity than design....what I mean to say is that he would much rather prefer not to rotate if that is possible.

But maybe that is a side to Klopp I haven't seen yet.....from what ive seen so far he seems to like a first 11 and a backup first 11 to use as opposed to having say 4-5 players constantly being rotated in and out around a spine

Squad depth is important no matter what we do so hopefully we get lucky with transfers and they mostly are like the summer just gone whereby most of them have been useful

[Nessy76]

I think Klopp will build on his first 11 as much as he can....players that he will drop in and out will be more out of necessity than design....what I mean to say is that he would much rather prefer not to rotate if that is possible.

I think we've seen the problem with that this season, and with Europe as well, there's just no way I can see how he can try to do that. You just don't win the Premier League without rotating the squad, especially a side that plays as intensively as we do.

There's simple fatigue. Clearly we were at the absolute limits a month ago, the team looked tired, physically and mentally. Add in a European group stage on top of what we did this year, there'll still be no winter break and he'll still need a stronger side to put out in the cups.

And then there's playing time. It's plain that players get better by playing and that teams get better as the players get to know one another by playing together in real match situations. When you don't rotate, every player who comes into the side because of injury, suspension or absence is coming in cold, without match fitness and not necessarily on the same page as the rest of the squad. There are very few players who will be at their best under those conditions, so it makes sense to avoid that situation by ensuring that everyone who might need to play will get enough games to ensure they are fresh and up to speed. That way, when you bring in eight changes for a cup replay, it's not a bunch of strangers, but a set of players who are all playing regular football.

[redk84]

I think we've seen the problem with that this season, and with Europe as well, there's just no way I can see how he can try to do that. You just don't win the Premier League without rotating the squad, especially a side that plays as intensively as we do.

There's simple fatigue. Clearly we were at the absolute limits a month ago, the team looked tired, physically and mentally. Add in a European group stage on top of what we did this year, there'll still be no winter break and he'll still need a stronger side to put out in the cups.

And then there's playing time. It's plain that players get better by playing and that teams get better as the players get to know one another by playing together in real match situations. When you don't rotate, every player who comes into the side because of injury, suspension or absence is coming in cold, without match fitness and not necessarily on the same page as the rest of the squad. There are very few players who will be at their best under those conditions, so it makes sense to avoid that situation by ensuring that everyone who might need to play will get enough games to ensure they are fresh and up to speed. That way, when you bring in eight changes for a cup replay, it's not a bunch of strangers, but a set of players who are all playing regular football.

I've also wondered whether it will be a problem for him here, with the amount of football that is played with the intensity he wants us to play in also.

I think the bit highlighted is very important, maybe the players that are on the fringe of the first eleven aren't fine tuned enough to the system he wants us to play, and that can only be resolved in the transfer window. So then the next part of that will be ensuring whoever he keeps on the bench will be ready to make an impact when given the chance, that can be hard to get out of a player mentally as well as technically especially in real match scenarios as you say..

What he has shown is persistence with a style of football and he is determined to make whoever is on the field play his way...so the players this season simply couldn't hack it, fine. I've thought before the lack of his own experience of a season without a winter-break (his backroom team also?) may have played a big part this season and the last in the drop in results around January. Its just a coincidence we are used to that as supporters of this club 

But end of the day maybe this is a problem he will solve by coming to the conclusion himself that he has to rotate and how he is going to do that. Whether it be by constantly changing personnel game by game, not huge but minor changes....or dovetailing players into the first team for a month or two at specific points in the season. Or a combination of both....

Will be interesting to see how he tackles this

[NarutoReds]

I've also wondered whether it will be a problem for him here, with the amount of football that is played with the intensity he wants us to play in also.

I think the bit highlighted is very important, maybe the players that are on the fringe of the first eleven aren't fine tuned enough to the system he wants us to play, and that can only be resolved in the transfer window. So then the next part of that will be ensuring whoever he keeps on the bench will be ready to make an impact when given the chance, that can be hard to get out of a player mentally as well as technically especially in real match scenarios as you say..

Agreed. I just hope that our "fringe" players like Sturridge, Lallana and Shaqiri would contribute more in the LATER stage of the league.
Few games more to win it!! Without any devastating injuries I am really really confident we could do it. Few games more!!

[Byrneand]

Agreed. I just hope that our "fringe" players like Sturridge, Lallana and Shaqiri would contribute more in the LATER stage of the league.
Few games more to win it!! Without any devastating injuries I am really really confident we could do it. Few games more!!

I'm more than happy to think that someone becomes a legend with a critical goal over the next two months. Think about Pangolle and Mellor back in 2005.

[Fromola]

We already needed a 4th CB though. It’s very clear Matip is not a good option as he can’t stay fit and now the previously ever present Van Dijk is out for the season we’re in severe need.

The problem is, if we want someone in January good enough you're probably looking at big money which we haven't got and spending 5-10 million on some fill in option (Caulker/Klavan) who will have to get used to the way we play and settle in etc is no more preferable than developing Williams or Koumetia.

City could throw 50 million at Ake. We're not in the position to do the same with someone like Ben White, unless Edwards can finance the deal like Jota.

[newterp]

Keita is becoming an injury concern. This season will be out of the ordinary due to the schedule so a lot of players will probably pick up knocks - but he's already had an injury plagued first 2 seasons.

[Ginieus]

Keita is becoming an injury concern. This season will be out of the ordinary due to the schedule so a lot of players will probably pick up knocks - but he's already had an injury plagued first 2 seasons.

If you can't trust a player to be fit then they need to be moved on. Matip, Ox and Keita all far too injury prone.

Did Keita have an injury record like this before joining? I recall him having a bad injury maybe season beforehand?

[Dave McCoy]

There's plenty of evidence that you can initially test negative for Covid but still have it.  My guess with Naby is he came back and then tested positive within a day or two afterwords or he's suffering some type of after effect which can range from cognitive to lungs.

[Samie]

Thiago posted pics, He's back in training. West Ham is it probably.

https://twitter.com/Thiago6/status/1320808428638523393

[FlashGordon]

Would seem the most likely, usually the lads need 2-3 days training before considered for selection. Although they gave us Alisson out of nowhere at the weekend so who the fuck knows 

[El Lobo]

It’d be odd for Naby to be injured considering he’s seemingly not actually returned to training since international duty. I’m not sure where he’d have picked it up. An issue about coronavirus seems more likely.

[Ghost Town]

I hate talking about covid health issues (as opposed to political arse-over-tittery) because it's serious and people talking all sorts of ill-informed shite end up scaring other people who are worried about themselves or loved ones. But I think it's safe enough to say that fatigue is a common side effect of the illness; certainly the post-illness symptom that I have seen most among my friends and acquaintances.

So let's just give Naby a bit of time; it may not be injury, but just fatigue, or just needing time to be at his best again.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

It’d be odd for Naby to be injured considering he’s seemingly not actually returned to training since international duty. I’m not sure where he’d have picked it up. An issue about coronavirus seems more likely.

No, he's trained with the side since he's been back, that was confirmed by Klopp leading up to the Ajax match.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

If you can't trust a player to be fit then they need to be moved on. Matip, Ox and Keita all far too injury prone.

Did Keita have an injury record like this before joining? I recall him having a bad injury maybe season beforehand?

No he didn't have a bad injury season prior to this. He had his niggles but nothing serious.

[UntouchableLuis]

If you can't trust a player to be fit then they need to be moved on. Matip, Ox and Keita all far too injury prone.

Did Keita have an injury record like this before joining? I recall him having a bad injury maybe season beforehand?

I would agree on Ox sadly - I think he has a lot of ability but like Lallana and Sturridge, just isn't worth it for how long they are out. I wouldn't move Matip on as I think he's top quality but we need more cover for that position.

Keita has this season for me to change my opinion but I've never seen anything special from him since he arrived- he just hasn't adapted to the league. Not a bad player but I'd have Curtis above him in the pecking order.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

I would agree on Ox sadly - I think he has a lot of ability but like Lallana and Sturridge, just isn't worth it for how long they are out. I wouldn't move Matip on as I think he's top quality but we need more cover for that position.

Keita has this season for me to change my opinion but I've never seen anything special from him since he arrived- he just hasn't adapted to the league. Not a bad player but I'd have Curtis above him in the pecking order.

Adapting to the league to me is nonsense. I don't think that's the problem for him. Bieng consistently available is his biggest problem.

[Knight]

Keita has been mostly fit for quite a while now. Hopefully this is just a little niggle.

[killer-heels]

Question for Welshred. Alisson said prayer and physio therapy is what allowed him to halve his recovery time. Is prayer a possible method to reduce Van Dijk’s recovery time, especially when you add it to the fact that he walked off the field?

[farawayred]

Question for Welshred. Alisson said prayer and physio therapy is what allowed him to halve his recovery time. Is prayer a possible method to reduce Van Dijk’s recovery time, especially when you add it to the fact that he walked off the field?

Good one, KH! Perhaps a prayer to the horse placenta gods might work...

[CraigDS]

Prayer only helps for training ground injuries unfortunately.

[ConqueredAllOfEurope]

Maybe the Holy Goaly can put in a good word for Virgil.

[rawcusk8]

Question for Welshred. Alisson said prayer and physio therapy is what allowed him to halve his recovery time. Is prayer a possible method to reduce Van Dijk’s recovery time, especially when you add it to the fact that he walked off the field?

[Suareznumber7]

Keita has been mostly fit for quite a while now. Hopefully this is just a little niggle.

Didn't he get Covid or was that a false positive test?

[Schmohawk]

Has he been fit for three months straight after he joined Liverpool? Genuine question.