Author Topic: Comolli: Only 1or 2 adjustments in the summer (Read 130225 times)

JackWard33 · « **Reply #2240 on:** March 9, 2012, 08:36:06 pm »

Quote from: Il Capitano on March 9, 2012, 06:25:38 pm

True, though to me it raises another question: the validity of the 'chance created' stat itself. A lot of our chances are difficult ones to finish from: within the black-and-white criteria of what is a chance and what isn't a chance, there is the ambiguity of how easy or difficult the chance is to convert into a goal. When Downing spends ages deciding whether he wants to take the fullback on, then goes one way, then feigns back onto his other foot, then cuts back, then eventually crosses.. the chance becomes difficult to react to and score from, because Carroll loses the momentum of his initial run into the box and has to adjust direction and compete with the centre backs to get the header away. The chance goes down as a chance in the statistics, regardless of the quality of it, and simply increments a 'chance created' number - is this an accurate representation of reality?

It's not a particularly relevant question as the different 'types' of chances would basically even out over a season unless there was a specific reason why a certain player was only creating good or bad chances which seems unlikely

vivabobbygraham · « **Reply #2241 on:** March 9, 2012, 09:02:53 pm »

Quote from: rossipersempre on March 9, 2012, 06:42:33 am

Xabi and Sociedad adheres to the Basque philosophy as much as you do. If we hadn't had a gentleman's agreement with Madrid over the sale of that Judas Welsh rat, then Xabi would have gone to the Bernabeu in summer 2004.

€35m on Bilbao's table last summer and Llorente would have been Liverpool's no.9. Deny it as impossible all you want if it makes you feel better about our Geordie Plan B.

'Deny it as impossible?' What a fucking drama queen you are. Piles playing you up, mate?

steveeastend · « **Reply #2242 on:** March 9, 2012, 09:50:30 pm »

Quote from: dernaroy on March 9, 2012, 11:20:35 am

Podolski is world class?

What is your definition of world class? People throw this term around a lot. For me, when you describe someone as world class I like to think of a theoretical 22 man World squad. And the question is can you make a reasonable case for this player to be included in this squad? If you can make that argument then that is world class for me.

Podolski world class? Van Persie is currently a world class striker, Torres and Henry were world class in their prime. Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi, Iniesta these are all world class players. Rooney is world class, Stevie was world class and may still be.

Podolski is not world class.

I would define every player from one of the big football internationals, Brasil, Italy, Argentina, Germany etc. with more than 60 caps as to be able to offer world class skills, as being able to play on the very top level of club football in europe which means to be CL player with the ability to make a major impression for his team which would mean here scoring at at least 10+ in the PL with a couple of assists.

Mutton Geoff · « **Reply #2243 on:** March 9, 2012, 09:53:01 pm »

Judas was born in Chester we don't want him as Welsh thanks.

DanA · « **Reply #2244 on:** March 10, 2012, 06:36:17 am »

Quote from: steveeastend on March 9, 2012, 09:50:30 pm

I would define every player from one of the big football internationals, Brasil, Italy, Argentina, Germany etc. with more than 60 caps as to be able to offer world class skills, as being able to play on the very top level of club football in europe which means to be CL player with the ability to make a major impression for his team which would mean here scoring at at least 10+ in the PL with a couple of assists.

Sounds pretty arbitrary. Lucas Podolski is evidently world class but Cavani & Suarez are not and Neymar won't be for another 3-4 years.

Didi_ram · « **Reply #2245 on:** March 10, 2012, 08:42:44 am »

Quote from: DanA on March 10, 2012, 06:36:17 am

Sounds pretty arbitrary. Lucas Podolski is evidently world class but Cavani & Suarez are not and Neymar won't be for another 3-4 years.

No,I think that his list wasnt obviously exclusive.Of course,apart from that set,there are many top players,belonging to the same country,who may be class,but I do agree to an extent that players with lots of caps for top countries have something substantial to offer,which is why they've got those chances.Podolski is one of them.And although not maybe top top class,certainly ones we could do with.

steveeastend · « **Reply #2246 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:00:20 am »

Quote from: DanA on March 10, 2012, 06:36:17 am

Sounds pretty arbitrary. Lucas Podolski is evidently world class but Cavani & Suarez are not and Neymar won't be for another 3-4 years.

It was a way trying to explain that someone with 95 caps for Germany has to have top quality skills and be able to put down top performances on a regular basis.

Suarez is world class, there is no doubt and Uruguay one of the top internationals as well at the moment. Cavani has the skills to be world class as well but he has to show this over a longer period of time, same with Neymar who offer exceptional skills, no doubt. I would have signed all of them.

thelinnen · « **Reply #2247 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:07:33 am »

Per Mertesacker

2004– Germany 79 (1)

Would you call him world class? Just one of many examples of average players having loads of caps.

thx4thememeories · « **Reply #2248 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:14:24 am »

Quote from: steveeastend on March 10, 2012, 10:00:20 am

It was a way trying to explain that someone with 95 caps for Germany has to have top quality skills and be able to put down top performances on a regular basis.

Suarez is world class, there is no doubt and Uruguay one of the top internationals as well at the moment. Cavani has the skills to be world class as well but he has to show this over a longer period of time, same with Neymar who offer exceptional skills, no doubt. I would have signed all of them.

It cant really work like that based on caps, Torres who was world class is now not has 95 caps he has/had the ability but no longer does it on the regular.

I think of the best team made up from all the best players in the world and think of a top 5 for each position and would think that they would all be round abouts world class.

steveeastend · « **Reply #2249 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:39:12 am »

Of course there are the same arguments valid for being passed their best, injuries or any other crisis a footballer may go through.

Mertesacker is in no way overrated, he is a great defender who had to adjust to the tempo of the Premier League but if you wanna compare him to the likes of Evans or any other "not-international" center back he is the way better option to go.

My point is if a player was able to perform on an international level for a longer period of time in a very competitive enviroment, he is able to give the squad quality and strength in important situations and more often than not on your boring PL away game in Wigan.

Packalacky · « **Reply #2250 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:45:13 am »

Quote from: thelinnen on March 10, 2012, 10:07:33 am

Per Mertesacker

2004– Germany 79 (1)

Would you call him world class? Just one of many examples of average players having loads of caps.

He's not world class, but he's certainly a very good defender.

eirwen · « **Reply #2251 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:45:57 am »

I don't think a player's international stats are that reliable. Some players always play great in national teams but not so much in clubs.
Podolski is not world class for me, but he would be a good signing, and someone we could get relatively cheap.

We need to get the signings absolutely right this time. A striker, a attacking midfielder and maybe a winger. Not sure about a DM, but if Martinez wants to leave Athletic we should at least try. I was disappointed we didn't even try to get Shaqiri. At the time only a Turkish club made an offer before Bayern.

harleydanger · « **Reply #2252 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:46:08 am »

High international caps means you're over paying for the talent level you're receiving. Get players on the way up, not when they're 70 caps into their career.

You know why raga did so well so cheap, he basically bought the Spanish u/21 side.

steveeastend · « **Reply #2253 on:** March 10, 2012, 10:54:19 am »

Quote from: harleydanger on March 10, 2012, 10:46:08 am

You know why raga did so well so cheap, he basically bought the Spanish u/21 side.

But there is your argument... how many "caps" did they have for the Spanish U21?
He probably got them cheap because the big clubs in Spain are world class in buying grown up internationals themselves..

They would have been perfect for us f.e. but as we clearly don´t want to go for spanish youth anymore we will have to hope our lion hearts to come good..

steveeastend · « **Reply #2254 on:** March 10, 2012, 11:10:26 am »

Actually I am little disappointed that we haven´t even tried to get Podolski. We have to be more clever and outsmart the likes of City, ManU or Chelsea as we cannot offer CL football or big wages, so why not go for internationals who are not hyped at the moment and overseen for one reason or another?

There wouldn´t have been a better moment for signings players from the quality of Podolski or even Torres for cheap money, both still being in the physical prime as I think that the problems of Torres are mainly lack of confidence.

peachybum · « **Reply #2255 on:** March 10, 2012, 11:14:27 am »

Quote from: eirwen on March 10, 2012, 10:45:57 am

I don't think a player's international stats are that reliable. Some players always play great in national teams but not so much in clubs.
Podolski is not world class for me, but he would be a good signing, and someone we could get relatively cheap.

Depends what you mean by cheap. £100k a week on a 4 year deal is a £20m+ contract and a reported big signing on fee as well. Add on top the £10m tranfer fee for a guy with 1 year left on his current deal then its a pretty big commitment for a guy who has previous for failing to deal with the pressure at a big club.

We need to be smarter than that. Its a obvious but silly deal for me. Alot like Mertasacker. Again i think it shows how Wenger's recruitment ability and vision isn't what is was or hasn't kept speed with the global market and improved scouting worldwide by european clubs.

Didi_ram · « **Reply #2256 on:** March 10, 2012, 11:27:04 am »

Quote from: steveeastend on March 10, 2012, 11:10:26 am

Torres for cheap money, both still being in the physical prime as I think that the problems of Torres are mainly lack of confidence.

If we have 15m for a striker,the first player I'd target is him.And you just know that he'd again start firing,with the right set of players and support for him.Will only turn 28.Seems to have got rid of the injury woes.Still has 3-4 years at the top left in him.And there is no way he is staying at the Bridge beyond the summer.

eirwen · « **Reply #2257 on:** March 10, 2012, 11:43:36 am »

Quote from: peachybum on March 10, 2012, 11:14:27 am

Depends what you mean by cheap. £100k a week on a 4 year deal is a £20m+ contract and a reported big signing on fee as well. Add on top the £10m tranfer fee for a guy with 1 year left on his current deal then its a pretty big commitment for a guy who has previous for failing to deal with the pressure at a big club.

We need to be smarter than that. Its a obvious but silly deal for me. Alot like Mertasacker. Again i think it shows how Wenger's recruitment ability and vision isn't what is was or hasn't kept speed with the global market and improved scouting worldwide by european clubs.

Well 100k is a lot, but it's like 5m more over four years compared to 70k. Not to mention the transfer fee. Not sure how much the signing on fee is, but at this point I'd say if we can get a good experienced striker for less than 20m that's not a lot.

jackh · « **Reply #2258 on:** March 10, 2012, 11:52:42 am »

Quote from: Didi_ram on March 9, 2012, 04:59:36 pm

Last year,our aim was squad depth.This year our aim has to be 1st eleven additions.Apart from Lucas,Gerrard and Suarez,three spots are up for grabs where we can add quality.Even if we buy players for two of those positions,and use Downing/Adam/Henderson/Carroll for the one remaining position,it will do.

I don't understand how anybody can perceive Steven Gerrard's position as being 'covered, safe, and sorted'.

Quote from: jackh on March 4, 2012, 04:39:49 pm

Can't help but feel as though many are missing the point of the thread here - the principle intention isn't to criticise Steven Gerrard.

Our Captain has been absent as much as he's been available since the Summer of 2010 - also consider that a number of those appearances would have been sub appearances or those made as part of the 'road to recovery'. In addition, we've lost the likes of Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano, and Fernando Torres - key to maximising Gerrard's contributions over various parts of the last 8 years. Furthermore, Newcastle game aside, it appears as though Gerrard is beginning to find it more difficult to get up to speed (following absence) and maintain his previous form (whether linked to absence/injury/team-mates/age-fatigue).

I don't believe for a second that there are people on RAWK who truly believe that the Liverpool squad is better off without Steven Gerrard in it - the problem is that nobody can be quite sure just what his value is to the team any more. How often will he be available for selection? How fit will he be when available? Will he hit for instantly, as we've seen in the past? What is his level, now? How does he gel with the rest of the team?

It seems to me that including Gerrard in our pre-season formations serves only to restrict us in our potential - nobody wants him out but depending on the iconic figure smacks of excess sentimentality. I'd hope, given how the last two seasons have gone, that we change our strategy and consider Gerrard as a luxury - in the summer we need to be on the lookout for a top class partner for Lucas Leiva, not a reliable deputy to cover for Steven Gerrard's occasional absences. A squad whereby Gerrard is generally considered first name on the bench (and do consider that his versatility pretty much means that this would guarantee him a great number of starts, when available) is what we need if we're to move forwards.

Zlen · « **Reply #2259 on:** March 10, 2012, 12:17:39 pm »

Great post jackh, an honest blueprint for what we need to do to maximise our chances.
I don't think it will happen though, considering some other team selection dilemmas our management appears to be somewhat shortsighted but we'll have a clearer picture after the summer so let's just wait till then.

jackh · « **Reply #2260 on:** March 10, 2012, 12:41:32 pm »

Quote from: Zlenpasha on March 10, 2012, 12:17:39 pm

Great post jackh, an honest blueprint for what we need to do to maximise our chances.
I don't think it will happen though, considering some other team selection dilemmas our management appears to be somewhat shortsighted but we'll have a clearer picture after the summer so let's just wait till then.

Posted an overview earlier in the thread - http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=287313.msg9983735#msg9983735

Stretch Armstrong · « **Reply #2261 on:** March 10, 2012, 12:49:29 pm »

We could buy 5 or 6 average players or 2 quality players. I think Kenny has stabilised the team and added some depth to the squad with some good buys and youth (after the previous regime sold many players); now it's about getting in quality players who deliver week in week out

If this is the plan then to me it makes sense, if we don't spend 'big' on quality then we may struggle for top 4 again next season

smurfinaus · « **Reply #2262 on:** March 10, 2012, 12:49:32 pm »

Quote from: steveeastend on March 10, 2012, 10:39:12 am

Of course there are the same arguments valid for being passed their best, injuries or any other crisis a footballer may go through.

Mertesacker is in no way overrated, he is a great defender who had to adjust to the tempo of the Premier League but if you wanna compare him to the likes of Evans or any other "not-international" center back he is the way better option to go.

My point is if a player was able to perform on an international level for a longer period of time in a very competitive enviroment, he is able to give the squad quality and strength in important situations and more often than not on your boring PL away game in Wigan.

Not being picky, but Mertesacker used to be a good player, til injuries made him sloooow - the EPL is too quick for him to be frank. The guy is slower than Sami ever was.

Smug Cassandra · « **Reply #2263 on:** March 10, 2012, 01:19:33 pm »

I am trying to think when the last time we bought a world class player was?

Was mascherano one in his position?? I really don't think we have Torres wasn't for sure when we got him. Alonso wasn't .

Hinesy · « **Reply #2264 on:** March 10, 2012, 01:24:52 pm »

This isn't really meant to be a ooh lets sign so and so thread, but I'm enjoying the debate...

Suarez7Carroll9 · « **Reply #2265 on:** March 10, 2012, 01:26:18 pm »

Ngog is looking very sharp for Bolton... Touch, pace, dribbling, movement, technique so much better than Carrolls...

Ngog sold for 3m & we spent 35m on Carroll... The management is just clueless on transfers... We could have even took a punt on Cisse, could do with pace in Bellamy's absence but yet again foolish decisions in the market... Cisse is way too good for QPR.

hulksagoodboy · « **Reply #2266 on:** March 10, 2012, 01:31:00 pm »

Calm yourself with slagging off our current number nine, who you've picked to be apart of your name at the same time.. Makes you look like a whopper.

N'gog looks great in a smaller team, shocker. I hope him all the best and a great career.

Smug Cassandra · « **Reply #2267 on:** March 10, 2012, 01:31:12 pm »

Quote from: Suarez7Carroll9 on March 10, 2012, 01:26:18 pm

Ngog is looking very sharp for Bolton... Touch, pace, dribbling, movement, technique so much better than Carrolls...

Ngog sold for 3m & we spent 35m on Carroll... The management is just clueless on transfers... We could have even took a punt on Cisse, could do with pace in Bellamy's absence but yet again foolish decisions in the market... Cisse is way too good for QPR.

agree our transfer infrastructure for transfers is inferior to arsenal and man u and spurs for that matter

jfc · « **Reply #2268 on:** March 10, 2012, 01:31:27 pm »

is it just me but is cisses link up play so much better than when he was here?

hulksagoodboy · « **Reply #2269 on:** March 10, 2012, 01:32:31 pm »

Quote from: jfc on March 10, 2012, 01:31:27 pm

is it just me but is cisses link up play so much better than when he was here?

It has to be, he's not the speed demon who lashes the ball when he gets a look anymore.

jfc · « **Reply #2270 on:** March 10, 2012, 01:34:31 pm »

Quote from: luis7glorez on March 10, 2012, 01:32:31 pm

It has to be, he's not the speed demon who lashes the ball when he gets a look anymore.

yeah ive been quite impressed with him whenever ive seen him , would've been a decent option for us

muyuu · « **Reply #2271 on:** March 10, 2012, 02:01:30 pm »

Quote from: jfc on March 10, 2012, 01:31:27 pm

is it just me but is cisses link up play so much better than when he was here?

Quote from: Suarez7Carroll9 on March 10, 2012, 01:26:18 pm

Ngog is looking very sharp for Bolton... Touch, pace, dribbling, movement, technique so much better than Carrolls...

Ngog sold for 3m & we spent 35m on Carroll... The management is just clueless on transfers... We could have even took a punt on Cisse, could do with pace in Bellamy's absence but yet again foolish decisions in the market... Cisse is way too good for QPR.

They were both good squad players and Carroll I'm afraid he's just that right now. We sold these players because we had too many squad players to contend for the top-4 or the title. Same goes for Crouchy.

They aren't half bad, just not good enough to be untouchable in a top side, so they could be sold for the right price.

Suareznumber7 · « **Reply #2272 on:** March 10, 2012, 02:04:08 pm »

Quote from: steveeastend on March 10, 2012, 10:54:19 am

But there is your argument... how many "caps" did they have for the Spanish U21?
He probably got them cheap because the big clubs in Spain are world class in buying grown up internationals themselves..

They would have been perfect for us f.e. but as we clearly don´t want to go for spanish youth anymore we will have to hope our lion hearts to come good..

So your basically saying we are fucked then right?

JackWard33 · « **Reply #2273 on:** March 10, 2012, 02:05:32 pm »

Quote from: jfc on March 10, 2012, 01:34:31 pm

yeah ive been quite impressed with him whenever ive seen him , would've been a decent option for us

did he learn the offside rule yet?

TLW 84 · « **Reply #2274 on:** March 10, 2012, 02:07:00 pm »

Quote from: Suarez7Carroll9 on March 10, 2012, 01:26:18 pm

Ngog is looking very sharp for Bolton... Touch, pace, dribbling, movement, technique so much better than Carrolls...

Ngog sold for 3m & we spent 35m on Carroll... The management is just clueless on transfers... We could have even took a punt on Cisse, could do with pace in Bellamy's absence but yet again foolish decisions in the market... Cisse is way too good for QPR.

Ngog? Hindsight, etc, I'd say, Carroll9.

steveeastend · « **Reply #2275 on:** March 10, 2012, 02:15:32 pm »

Quote from: Suareznumber7 on March 10, 2012, 02:04:08 pm

So your basically saying we are fucked then right?

Actually I don´t think that young spanish player should be our number one target although it is probably the best possible youth system in Spain to be found at the moment.. But I think the football is just too different to England.

I always think on next season first and foremost so this debate isn´t too important anyway in my opinion.

The big question is who we are gonna sign in summer..