Topic: LIVERPOOL TRANSFER THREAD 2023 - archived discussions about what’s offensive

[NightDancer]

Anyone who has watched him care to say what McKennie is like as a player?

Just saw this on his wiki page

Style of play

McKennie is known for his versatility as a player. During his time at Schalke, McKennie played in numerous positions including in midfield, as a center-back, full-back, and even as a striker.[45] However, he has primarily played as either a box-to-box midfielder or in a deeper-lying defensive role.[46] During his time with Juventus, he has been used in several midfield positions, including as a wide midfielder, in a holding role, or even as a more offensive–minded central midfielder, known as the mezzala role in Italian soccer jargon.[47]

McKennie's primary attributes are his defensive skills and work rate, as well as his ability to win back the ball.[46] Furthermore, his passing allows him to dictate the flow of the game and push the ball forward from deep-lying positions in midfield.[48] His ball-winning qualities, combined with his positioning, tactical intelligence, eye for goal from midfield, and ability to make late attacking runs into the box led Alberto Mauro of Il Messaggero to compare him to former Juventus midfielders Edgar Davids and Arturo Vidal; McKennie's technical ability was cited as an area in need of improvement, however.[47]

It makes him sound like a bit of a  raw jack of all trades with a high work rate. Know nothing about him so do not have a clue if he would be a good squad player for us or maybe a bit better than a squad player.

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

Most of our troubles came from the bad luck with the injuries. Keita, Ox, Jones and Arthur have barely played before the World Cup, putting too much workload on Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson and Elliot. If we don't sign another midfielder in January, I can see Keita, Jones, Ox, Arthur, Carvalho, Milner and Bajcetic getting most of the playing time in the FA Cup, and even some playing time in the PL and the CL, resting Fabinho, Thiago and Henderson. Going out of the League Cup could also be a blessing in disguise, since it will mean 4 games less ...

1. Most of those back up players are famously injured a lot, and don't provide back-up at all. It might be "bad luck" but it's also entirely predictable that the likes of Keita will miss games, just when we need him to step in.

2. They simply are not good enough at PL level for us to succeed. No one who wants to compete would sign Ox, Jones, Arthur, or Milner these days. Elliot and Carvalho show no sign of being adequate central midfielders whatsoever, however talented they are.

We don't have a midfield that works, doesn't matter how many players you think we have or how much rest Henderson or Fab gets... it's too slow and only new blood will change that. If you can't see that every game, perhaps you really are watching too many games at once?

[JackWard33]

Joyce etc. saying he's had a lot more say in the last 12 months in a few of their articles

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liverpool-sporting-director-julian-ward-to-leave-at-end-of-season-swz3jhpgx

Thanks - very hard to know how much of this is journalism / pr and how much is real
Obv Klopp isn’t deciding level of spend/budgeted or contracts…but he could be deciding targets which would explain why our analysts are leaving the building

Hard to say how we’re making decisions now, we’re definitely a mile away from the joined up strategy and thinking in recruitment that built our squad in 2017-20

[Chris~]

Thanks - very hard to know how much of this is journalism / pr and how much is real
Obv Klopp isn’t deciding level of spend/budgeted or contracts…but he could be deciding targets which would explain why our analysts are leaving the building

Hard to say how we’re making decisions now, we’re definitely a mile away from the joined up strategy and thinking in recruitment that built our squad in 2017-20

Yeah at the time I think I said this could just be spin to make it sound like everything is fine, but given our recruitment, Klopp's comments, the people leaving, it would fit with Klopp having more say. Ward's going and Klopp is reportedly (again could be pr spin from the club) helping pick his replacement. Would be odd for Klopp not to have more say in recruitment over this period than the guy who's leaving really

[Wabaloolah]

Yeah I think we’re facing the consequences for not been ruthless enough, which is easier for us fans to say and call for here. It’s part of what makes Klopp such a great man manager afterall.

I was very happy, like all Liverpool fans, that we’ve kept the group together but I was expecting more succession planning in the midfield like we have done in defence and attack.

I’d also argue Ox, Keita and possibly Milner still been here isn’t a lack of ruthlessness but too far the other way on the loyalty spectrum.

how do you get rid of them if they have a contract and no club wants to buy them or if a club does the player does not want to move?

[Fromola]

Just because they are a "Brexit" midfielder doesn't mean they are going to be a Milner/Henderson/Gini.

He's just not good enough; he has one trick (set pieces) which we don't really have an issue with, and he just isn't good enough or provide what we need otherwise.

I'd rather a McGinn or Dewsbury-Hall than Ward-Prowse, and I wouldn't pay more than 20 for either of them because they're really crap as well.

I wouldn't mind Dewsbury-Hall as a squad player (unless he just raises his game for us). He puts in a real shift and a bit of quality with it, plus homegrown. Wouldn't pay big money or anything but we could do with someone like that at the moment.

Ward-Prowse is a bit of a nothing player who scores the odd free kick and whips the odd ball in.

[PeterTheRed ...]

1. Most of those back up players are famously injured a lot, and don't provide back-up at all. It might be "bad luck" but it's also entirely predictable that the likes of Keita will miss games, just when we need him to step in.

2. They simply are not good enough at PL level for us to succeed. No one who wants to compete would sign Ox, Jones, Arthur, or Milner these days. Elliot and Carvalho show no sign of being adequate central midfielders whatsoever, however talented they are.

We don't have a midfield that works, doesn't matter how many players you think we have or how much rest Henderson or Fab gets... it's too slow and only new blood will change that. If you can't see that every game, perhaps you really are watching too many games at once?

Lets say that we sign 2 midfielders in January. What happens with Keita, Ox, Elliot, Jones, Arthur, Carvalho, Milner and Bajcetic, since we now have 6 quality attackers?

[tubby]

Lets say that we sign 2 midfielders in January. What happens with Keita, Ox, Elliot, Jones, Arthur, Carvalho, Milner and Bajcetic, since we now have 6 quality attackers?

Keita, Ox, Jones and Arthur remain or get injured, Milner acts as the swiss army knife back up he should be at this stage, and Bajcetic gets more time to develop out of the spotlight, instead of being thrust into the first team because of emergency.

[Fromola]

Lets say that we sign 2 midfielders in January. What happens with Keita, Ox, Elliot, Jones, Arthur, Carvalho, Milner and Bajcetic, since we now have 6 quality attackers?

We aren't going to sign 2 this month, nor is it realistic, but we need someone. Having Mane, Salah, Firmino, Jota, Minamino, Origi and Ox and Elliott didn't stop us signing Diaz last January.

Keita, Ox, Arthur and Milner presumably won't be here next season.

[PeterTheRed ...]

Keita, Ox, Jones and Arthur remain or get injured, Milner acts as the swiss army knife back up he should be at this stage, and Bajcetic gets more time to develop out of the spotlight, instead of being thrust into the first team because of emergency.

So, we basically give up on Elliot and Carvalho.

Nope, I don't like that ...

[tubby]

So, we basically give up on Elliot and Carvalho.

Nope, I don't like that ...

They remain as rotation options but not first choices.  Which is what we should be doing with them at this stage in their careers.

[classycarra]

So, we basically give up on Elliot and Carvalho.

Nope, I don't like that ...

You've literally talked up signing two midfielders (or more) who play similar positions  in the last 24 hrs alone (Bellingham McKennie and Kamada) - which apparently means you've given up on Elliot and Carvalho - nope, Peter won't like that either

[PeterTheRed ...]

They remain as rotation options but not first choices.  Which is what we should be doing with them at this stage in their careers.

What rotation options? They won't see a minute of playing time behind the 11 senior attackers and midfielders ahead of them in the pecking order ...

[tubby]

What rotation options? They won't see a minute of playing time behind the 11 senior attackers and midfielders ahead of them in the pecking order ...

Unless they're better than those other options or (more likely) not injured.

[PeterTheRed ...]

You've literally talked up signing two midfielders (or more) who play similar positions  in the last 24 hrs alone (Bellingham McKennie and Kamada) - which apparently means you've given up on Elliot and Carvalho - nope, Peter won't like that either

Yes, I would consider McKennie (on loan) OR Kamada (on the cheap) in case we manage to sell BOTH Keita and Ox in January. Such a move would leave enough playing time for Elliott and Carvalho. But I am sure you already know this, since I've expained it quite often ...

[PeterTheRed ...]

Unless they're better than those other options or (more likely) not injured.

Better than Salah, Nunez, Diaz, Gakpo, Jota, Firmino, Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson AND THE TWO NEW MIDFIELDERS?

[tubby]

Better than Salah, Nunez, Diaz, Gakpo, Jota, Firmino, Fabinho, Thiago, Henderson AND THE TWO NEW MIDFIELDERS?

What would you say Elliott and Carvalho's best positions are?

[Thiago12291]

No idea what's going on with Jones' fitness, but he's easily our most athletic midfielder and I think there's a big opportunity for him when he's back. Could be make or break.

You think Curtis Jones is athletic?

[Schmidt]

Elliot is an abysmal midfielder, he's missing most of what you'd want from a midfielder in our system and hasn't improved at all since we first tried him there at the start of last season. He's a luxury player that needs to be carried by the rest of the midfield, playing in a midfield too old to carry him, and he doesn't even provide the goals/assists to justify sacrificing the control you'd get from a more rounded player.

Carvalho isn't a midfielder at all, he played there when we had dire injury problems and struggled, and we've made no attempt to use him there since.

If I had to choose between signing two midfielders and limiting the minutes of two youngsters, or playing them at all costs and accepting years of poor form in the hope they'll develop into mediocre midfielders, yes I'd absolutely sign new players.

[jepovic]

The last thing we need is anothet decent midfielders. We have the numbers, but we lack top quality.

[T.Mills]

Elliot is an abysmal midfielder, he's missing most of what you'd want from a midfielder in our system and hasn't improved at all since we first tried him there at the start of last season. He's a luxury player that needs to be carried by the rest of the midfield, playing in a midfield too old to carry him, and he doesn't even provide the goals/assists to justify sacrificing the control you'd get from a more rounded player.

Carvalho isn't a midfielder at all, he played there when we had dire injury problems and struggled, and we've made no attempt to use him there since.

If I had to choose between signing two midfielders and limiting the minutes of two youngsters, or playing them at all costs and accepting years of poor form in the hope they'll develop into mediocre midfielders, yes I'd absolutely sign new players.

Abysmal is harsh. The rest i agree with.

[SamLad]

Listen to your father Jude……

like most teenagers do?

[stewy17]

Elliot is an abysmal midfielder, he's missing most of what you'd want from a midfielder in our system and hasn't improved at all since we first tried him there at the start of last season. He's a luxury player that needs to be carried by the rest of the midfield, playing in a midfield too old to carry him, and he doesn't even provide the goals/assists to justify sacrificing the control you'd get from a more rounded player.

Carvalho isn't a midfielder at all, he played there when we had dire injury problems and struggled, and we've made no attempt to use him there since.

If I had to choose between signing two midfielders and limiting the minutes of two youngsters, or playing them at all costs and accepting years of poor form in the hope they'll develop into mediocre midfielders, yes I'd absolutely sign new players.

Seems pretty clear to me that the Elliott in Midfield experiment is failing or has failed. I’ve said before but if I was picking the team he’d be behind the main three, Keita and Jones for me.

I think his presence in there has a really big impact on making us defensively shite, and as some
Others have said he’s not even producing at the other end. To me he just seems slow, small, weak and very little end product. Maybe he’ll come good at some point and I’ll eat my words, wouldn’t be the first time, but I’d lose no sleep if we didn’t see him in there ever again for Liverpool.

No coincidence that we play how we did last year from January to June and most of the time Elliott never even made the bench.

[Jean Girard]

Fuck me. We all wouldn't mind a couple of new midfielders and a bit more control in games. But the language used to describe our lads, the club captain and young players especially, is the pits these days. Hope it's just impatience and frustration - because a load of you sound like the entitled arseholes on twitter.

Apologies to the few bright spots who try steer the chat to civilised and rational ground.

[Chris~]

Find it odd blaming Elliott when we've been awful in midfield with or without him. It's clearly a bigger problem than one player

[Ghost Town]

how do you get rid of them if they have a contract and no club wants to buy them or if a club does the player does not want to move?

Apparently all you have to do is press the button marked SELL on the Big Red Transfer Machine at Kirkby. It's the latest Fan Assisted model, I hear, so should work perfectly every time.

It might seem like people here are whinging and moaning and treating simplistically something that is more complictaed, but in fact really they're just pissed that Klopp hasn't read the manuel.

He can't set the video either, the luddite biff.

[Caps4444]

Find it odd blaming Elliott when we've been awful in midfield with or without him. It's clearly a bigger problem than one player

I remember at the start of last season, Elliot was part of the first choice midfield before he got injured.

[RedBec1993]

That Alan Smith and Stan Collymore are brain dead. Saying the Gakpo signing proves we shop at Aldi and city shop at Harrods for their players. Our recruitment has been fantastic over the years, shopping at harrods for grealish hahaah they can carry on doing so.

[DelTrotter]

Find it odd blaming Elliott when we've been awful in midfield with or without him. It's clearly a bigger problem than one player

Yep. Thiago, Hendo and Fab stunk on the opening day at Fulham and it's got little better whoever plays. The only hope left without a signing is Naby, Fab/Hendo, Thiago but they'll probably only be fit enough for a few games at the same time from now till may. It's a far bigger problem than one player unfortunately.

[Drinks Sangria]

Daichi Kamada is a tidy player who solves zero problems in our midfield. He’s a proficient 10 who wouldn’t fit our present system. If you’re playing a 10, stick Elliott in there because that’s where he’d actually look his best, should he be surrounded by more legs in midfield than we have.

Kamada will carry on being good in the Bundesliga and look mediocre to passable if he comes to a top Premier League side. He’s also 27 come the start of next season.

McKennie would be an odd one. He’s athletic, he’s defensively aware but he doesn’t have much quality on the ball or break the lines of the opposition. He’s kind of a plug you shove into the lineup whenever you’re lacking something more. I’d imagine he’d be a pale imitation of Gini’s role in our midfield. Unless Juve were giving him away - which they may well have to at some stage - he doesn’t really make sense as anything other than a cheap squad player. Not even the best midfielder in the USMNT.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

Is there a helpline similar to Samaritans being set up exclusively for RAWK members, in the event that Jude Bellingham goes elsewhere in the summer?

[Ma Vie en Rouge]

So, we basically give up on Elliot and Carvalho.

Nope, I don't like that ...

Do you see anything in them that looks like it can hold a Klopp midfield together? I don't at all. Maybe with 2 quick and physically dominant mids alongside them, at best. I'm not sure what the plan is, but they are not Klopp midfielders at all at the moment, and we have attackers who are way better than them in attack, so it's a tough one. If we were a functioning team with a great midfield, they could slot in and out and get plenty of minutes resting the main guys, but we are not, we have a deeply disfunctional midfield that just exposes Elliot and Carvalho and does no one any favours.

They should be bit-part players, learning from a well-oiled midfield unit and coming on to give us youth and spark or to rest senior players, not part of the main midfield plan at all. We are not Southampton, blooding young players and hoping to finish outside the relegation places. We are meant to be competing for the top prizes, and for that, we need to be ruthless and honest. Right now, those two can't do what is needed, that has been clear.

[Aldo1988]

Elliot is an abysmal midfielder, he's missing most of what you'd want from a midfielder in our system and hasn't improved at all since we first tried him there at the start of last season. He's a luxury player that needs to be carried by the rest of the midfield, playing in a midfield too old to carry him, and he doesn't even provide the goals/assists to justify sacrificing the control you'd get from a more rounded player.

Carvalho isn't a midfielder at all, he played there when we had dire injury problems and struggled, and we've made no attempt to use him there since.

If I had to choose between signing two midfielders and limiting the minutes of two youngsters, or playing them at all costs and accepting years of poor form in the hope they'll develop into mediocre midfielders, yes I'd absolutely sign new players.

He is far from an abysmal midfielder.

[Chris~]

If we were being ruthless we'd getting of Fabinho, Henderson and Thiago as they're the ones supposed to be close to their prime, on big money and not performing to a level we need over the young players.

[El Lobo]

If we were being ruthless we'd getting of Fabinho, Henderson and Thiago as they're the ones supposed to be close to their prime, on big money and not performing to a level we need over the young players.

That wouldn’t be ruthless it’d just be stupid

[RedBec1993]

Thiago not performing hahahahaha oh god.

Fabinho had a slow start but he’s still a very good option to have.

[Suareznumber7]

The last couple of pages. 

[clinical]

If we were being ruthless we'd getting of Fabinho, Henderson and Thiago as they're the ones supposed to be close to their prime, on big money and not performing to a level we need over the young players.

You want us to replace every single midfielder? Those 3 needs to stay with at least two new ones brought in to replace Ox,Milner and Keita. We need one immediately and one in the summer and they need to be top quality.

And we can pray we're sold as the league has outgrown FSG for the wrong reasons.

[HARD AS HELL]

It might seem like people here are whinging and moaning and treating simplistically something that is more complictaed, but in fact really they're just pissed that Klopp hasn't read the manuel.

Què?

[rob1966]

Apparently all you have to do is press the button marked SELL on the Big Red Transfer Machine at Kirkby. It's the latest Fan Assisted model, I hear, so should work perfectly every time.

It might seem like people here are whinging and moaning and treating simplistically something that is more complictaed, but in fact really they're just pissed that Klopp hasn't read the manuel.

He can't set the video either, the luddite biff.

¿Qué?

Què?

Bastard ! Beat me to it