Author Topic: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya  (Read 1583 times)

Offline ScouserAtHeart

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Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« on: September 13, 2023, 04:25:39 am »
‘Disastrous beyond comprehension’: 10,000 missing after Libya floods

Neighbourhoods washed away in port city of Derna, where two dams burst, with many bodies swept out to sea

The situation in Derna, the Libyan port city where two dams burst over the weekend, has been described as “disastrous beyond comprehension”, as the Red Cross and local officials said at least 10,000 people were missing after the devastating floods.

The confirmed death toll has exceeded 5,300, Mohammed Abu-Lamousha, a spokesperson for the administration that controls the east of Libya told a state-run news agency late on Tuesday.Tariq al-Kharraz, another representative of the eastern government, said that entire neighbourhoods had been washed away, with many bodies swept out to sea.

Hundreds of bodies were piled up in cemeteries with few survivors able to identify them, according to Kharraz, who said he expected the death toll to rise above 10,000 people – a figure also quoted by the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies.

Rami Elshaheibi, the Libyan national communications officer for the World Health Organization, said the situation in Derna was “disastrous beyond comprehension”.

Hichem Chkiouat, the minister of civil aviation, said many of the dead remained where the water left them: “Bodies are lying everywhere – in the sea, in the valleys, under the buildings,” Chkiouat told Reuters by phone after a visit to the city. “I am not exaggerating when I say that 25% of the city has disappeared. Many, many buildings have collapsed.”

Video footage circulating on social media showed people pleading for help and screaming as muddy water engulfed their homes. Other video captured torrents sweeping away cars on streets, which had turned into rivers.

Sondos Shuwaib, a local blogger, said she was in her home when suddenly she found herself torn away by the flood waters. In a harrowing account of the disaster posted online, she described seeing children and babies caught in the current. “There were corpses next to me, and corpses above me, and corpses beneath me,” she wrote.

Shuwaib eventually washed up in shallow waters and was taken to hospital. “I am not able to comprehend what happened,” she wrote. “Sometimes I thank God for my survival – but when I remember that my family is missing … I wish I had died with them.”

The Norwegian Refugee Council said tens of thousands of people had been displaced with no prospect of going back home.

“Our team in Libya is reporting a disastrous situation for some of the most impoverished communities along the north coast. Entire villages have been overwhelmed by the floods and the death toll continues to rise,” it said.

Desperate citizens were appealing on social media for information about missing relatives. Many were angry at the slow pace of the relief effort, and of local authorities’ failure to warn that the dams were at risk of bursting.

Engineers had previously issued generalised warnings about the risk of the dams bursting and the urgent need to strengthen their defences.

Anas El-Gomati, the founder of the Libya-based Sadeq thinktank, said a political inquest would be necessary. “North Africa is not immune to climate change, but this is also about corruption and incompetence. In Morocco perhaps you had seconds or minutes when the tectonic plates moved, but here in Libya there was plenty of warning about this hurricane … yet there was no evacuation of Derna – and now a quarter of the city’s population are under water.”

A 2022 report in an academic journal had warned that if a flood equivalent to one in 1959 was repeated, it would be “likely to cause one of the two dams to collapse, making the residents of the valley and the city of Derna vulnerable due to a high risk of flooding”.

Oil-rich Libya has been riven by political infighting, corruption and external interference since a 2011 uprising that toppled and later led to the death of the longtime ruler Muammar Gaddafi. Attempts stretching back a decade to form a unified functioning government have failed, and instead two rival governments backed by their own militias are based in Tripoli in the west and Tobruk in the east.

Investment in roads and public services has dwindled and there has been minimal regulation of private building.

Derna was for several years controlled by Islamist militant groups until it was captured in 2019 by Gen Khalifa Haftar, the warlord in charge of an army in the east.

Since then, the eastern government has been suspicious of the city and sidelined its residents, said Jalel Harchaoui, an associate fellow at the Royal United Services Institute for defence and security studies.

An emergency medical supply plane carrying 14 tonnes of supplies, medication, equipment, body bags and 87 medical and paramedic personnel was heading to Benghazi to support the areas affected by the flood, the head of the Tripoli-based Government of National Unity, Abdul Hamid Dbeibeh, said on Tuesday.

Video footage circulating on social media showed people pleading for help and screaming as muddy water engulfed their homes. Other video captured torrents sweeping away cars on streets, which had turned into rivers.

The flooding caused by Storm Daniel led to a complete break in communications and cut off internet access in Derna. Entire neighbourhoods by the bank of a swollen river had been ravaged and washed away.

One resident, Hudhayfah al-Hasadi, told Al-Hurra: “The depths of some of the valleys in which water collects reach about 400 metres. Therefore, when the dam collapsed, the water was released like an atomic bomb, and eight bridges and residential buildings collapsed completely.”

A spokesperson for the Libyan Emergency Authority, Osama Ali, said: “All the water headed to an area near Derna, which is a mountainous coastal area … Houses in the valleys that were on the flood line were swept away by strong currents of muddy water that carried vehicles and debris.”

He added: “Weather conditions were not studied well, sea water levels, rainfall and wind speed, and there was no evacuation of families who could be in the path of the storm and in the valleys.”

There were conflicting reports as to whether requests had been made to evacuate the city at the weekend, and if so why the plan was rejected.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/12/libya-floods-death-toll-dams-burst
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Offline John C

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2023, 05:57:25 am »
It's devastating isn't it. Perhaps one of the biggest catastrophe's I remember.
RIP to all who have been killed.

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2023, 07:29:49 am »
Just seen this on the news this morning. Absolutely horrific stuff. Some of the videos are like something out of a movie.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2023, 07:37:27 am »
Heartbreaking and infuriating. Two governments too busy waving their d!cks at each other to do the job they're supposed to do - look after their people.

Hope someone is put up against a wall for this. Rip to all lost in this needless tragedy.  :'(   :'(
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2023, 01:35:26 pm »
Heartbreaking and infuriating. Two governments too busy waving their d!cks at each other to do the job they're supposed to do - look after their people.

Hope someone is put up against a wall for this. Rip to all lost in this needless tragedy.  :'(   :'(

That is what makes it so frustrating and before we even bring climate change into to ignore all the warnings seem criminal on the part of the authorities. I can't even begin to think what those poor people are going through.  :'(
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2023, 05:03:21 pm »
Incomprehensible numbers really. Desperately sad.

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2023, 05:09:31 pm »
Absolutely devastating and sad. RIP.   :(

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2023, 07:17:47 pm »
Beyond awful.  Those poor poor people.
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2023, 08:56:30 pm »
Eyewitness reports coming through now. Horrendous and heartbreaking.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2023, 09:17:37 pm »
Heartbreaking and infuriating. Two governments too busy waving their d!cks at each other to do the job they're supposed to do - look after their people.

Hope someone is put up against a wall for this. Rip to all lost in this needless tragedy.  :'(   :'(


Indeed.  And we had a hand in that current situation.

People around the world deserve governments that have their interests at heart.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2023, 09:45:55 pm »

Indeed.  And we had a hand in that current situation.

People around the world deserve governments that have their interests at heart.

We don't have to make everything about the West getting involved, do we? Obviously there was always more we could have done post-Gadaffi, but leaving him in charge was hardly an option either.
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2023, 08:35:44 am »
We don't have to make everything about the West getting involved, do we? Obviously there was always more we could have done post-Gadaffi, but leaving him in charge was hardly an option either.

But we did, and we have.

The West has to take some responsibility for the current political situation, as we helped to create it.  But, generally, that's something that we fail to do.  Actions have consequences, as they say - not for us though, in this instance. 

Apparently, all the maintenance, spending and checks have stopped, since Gadaffi was toppled.

I'm not a Libian citizen or an authority of the subject, so I don't know the nuts and bolts of it.  The Libian speaker on the news last night, was absolutely scathing!
« Last Edit: September 15, 2023, 08:37:19 am by Red-Soldier »

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2023, 08:48:35 am »
But we did, and we have.

The West has to take some responsibility for the current political situation, as we helped to create it.  But, generally, that's something that we fail to do.  Actions have consequences, as they say - not for us though, in this instance. 

Apparently, all the maintenance, spending and checks have stopped, since Gadaffi was toppled.

I'm not a Libian citizen or an authority of the subject, so I don't know the nuts and bolts of it.  The Libian speaker on the news last night, was absolutely scathing!

Why is it always our fault? How about the Libyan government  -GOVERNMENTS  - take some responsibility for this failure?

It's not our fault Libya can't make up It's mind who it wants to govern them. The Arab spring was spontaneous; our intervention was to protect the people from their own government. 

If we don't get involved we end up with a Syria. If we do get involved, we end up with an Iraq, or an Afghanistan. Damned if we do, dammed if we don't.

So here's an idea - How about we set the politics to one side and mourn a horrendous tragedy born from incompetence and corruption without making it all about the failings of the West again? You know, just for a change?
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2023, 09:27:13 am »
Why is it always our fault? How about the Libyan government  -GOVERNMENTS  - take some responsibility for this failure?

It's not our fault Libya can't make up It's mind who it wants to govern them. The Arab spring was spontaneous; our intervention was to protect the people from their own government. 

If we don't get involved we end up with a Syria. If we do get involved, we end up with an Iraq, or an Afghanistan. Damned if we do, dammed if we don't.

So here's an idea - How about we set the politics to one side and mourn a horrendous tragedy born from incompetence and corruption without making it all about the failings of the West again? You know, just for a change?

Of course, the Libyan governments have failed - but we helped to create the current political situation.

The Flood is both a natural, and a human created disaster.  You can't seperate the politics I'm afraid, as it's very much part of it. 

Like I said, I'm not Libyan (don't think you are either), but the speaker they had on the news last night, was absolutely scathing about the current political situation and how they ended up there.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2023, 09:30:40 am by Red-Soldier »

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2023, 09:28:25 am »
Also isn't Derna being run by a warlord ?
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2023, 10:18:28 am »
Of course, the Libyan governments have failed - but we helped to create the current political situation.

The Flood is both a natural, and a human created disaster.  You can't seperate the politics I'm afraid, as it's very much part of it. 

Like I said, I'm not Libyan (don't think you are either), but the speaker they had on the news last night, was absolutely scathing about the current political situation and how they ended up there.

I'm going to say no more on the issue. As far as I'm concerned, using this as yet another opportunity to put the boot in on The West just distracts from the tragedy. We could trace this back all the way to the Crusades if we want to play the blame game, but this is solely a Libyan matter for me. 
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2023, 10:34:57 am »
Also isn't Derna being run by a warlord ?

Not sure.

Of course, the intense rainfall of Storm Daniel, was made more likely by climate change.  This is a terrible tragedy and governments around the world, have failed their citizens - leaving them in such a vulnerable state.

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2023, 10:36:08 am »
The Libyan Red Crescent put the death toll at more than 11,000 people, with nearly 20,000 still missing, the highest estimate yet from an official source. It said almost 2,000 bodies were swept into the sea by the floods.

Officials in the port city of Derna including the mayor, Abdulmenam al-Ghaithi, believe 20,000 people may have died. At least 5,500 people have been confirmed dead.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/14/libya-call-for-inquiry-fury-death-toll-catastrophic-floods
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2023, 10:39:13 am »
I'm going to say no more on the issue. As far as I'm concerned, using this as yet another opportunity to put the boot in on The West just distracts from the tragedy. We could trace this back all the way to the Crusades if we want to play the blame game, but this is solely a Libyan matter for me.

Fair enough.

Not sure if anyone is doing that.  But, every action has a consequence.

That's fine if you want to think of it like that, I prefer to look at the bigger picture and the underlying drivers.  Recent history is more relevent than a 1000 years ago, I would suggest.

Another example, of course, is that we're more responsible for climate change, than Libyans too.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2023, 02:37:22 pm by Red-Soldier »

Offline fowlermagic

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2023, 12:13:38 pm »
Let's see how the West responds as it looks like one of the worse tragedies in recent years. It must be horrendous there on the ground right now but life must go on as some fine folks in the world have 1m to spend on a jumper covered in sheep. You got to wonder about the human race sometimes.
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2023, 05:54:40 pm »
Let's see how the West responds as it looks like one of the worse tragedies in recent years. It must be horrendous there on the ground right now but life must go on as some fine folks in the world have 1m to spend on a jumper covered in sheep. You got to wonder about the human race sometimes.

Also lets see how the muslim world responds.They have been putting the boot in there for years,Turkey,UAE,Egypt,Syria and even Sudan all the other  islamic terrorist funded by somewhere.Absolutely sucks for any of the people that have to live and die cos of this shit.

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2023, 06:00:49 pm »

Also lets see how the muslim world responds.They have been putting the boot in there for years,Turkey,UAE,Egypt,Syria and even Sudan all the other  islamic terrorist funded by somewhere.Absolutely sucks for any of the people that have to live and die cos of this shit.

No mate you just don't get it, those Muslim countries are skint so it has to be the EVIL West that steps up.
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2023, 06:05:29 pm »
No mate you just don't get it, those Muslim countries are skint so it has to be the EVIL West that steps up.
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2023, 08:23:36 pm »
Its people just like the rest of us who desperately need our help.
1000's of families torn apart by one of the worst disasters ever
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2023, 08:25:51 pm »
Its people just like the rest of us who desperately need our help.
1000's of families torn apart by one of the worst disasters ever
Religion and shite shouldn't come into it.

It shouldn't, that's why bringing the West into everything is out of order.
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2023, 09:12:40 pm »

Also lets see how the muslim world responds.They have been putting the boot in there for years,Turkey,UAE,Egypt,Syria and even Sudan all the other  islamic terrorist funded by somewhere.Absolutely sucks for any of the people that have to live and die cos of this shit.

The chap I saw on the news was calling out the UAE, and also mentioned Turkey, I think.  It's not just the West we're talking about here.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2023, 09:17:37 pm by Red-Soldier »

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2023, 09:16:22 pm »
It shouldn't, that's why bringing the West into everything is out of order.

Why?  We helped to overthrow Gaddafi and create the current political landscape, and we're also responsible for most of the changing climate.  Simple really.

Actions have consequences. 

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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #27 on: October 8, 2023, 10:51:50 am »
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Re: Over 5,000 people killed, 10,000 missing in floods in Libya
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2023, 01:24:12 pm »
Eyewitness reports coming through now. Horrendous and heartbreaking.

I heard one of the worst I had ever heard.

Some people went on to their roof as the water was coming up around their house. There was another family across the street doing the exact same thing and they were looking at each other across a street of raing water. Then the other house just collapsed under the water pressure and the house and the family were washed away in seconds. It was something out of a disaster movie but very real.