Topic: Qatar's True WC Legacy: news and reports on the human cost of sportswashing.

[kennedy81]

all built on the back of modern day slave labour...

Will slaves build Qatar's World Cup?

Labor unions want a rethink of the decision to hold FIFA's World Cup 2022 in the Gulf state.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/130508/qatar-world-cup-labor-rights-zahir-belounis

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Other than Doha which other towns/cities can host games? Don't you need at least 10 different sites for a world cup?

Not for Qatar it seems.

They will create a whole new town, but about 5 stadiums will be located in Doha.

[Xxavi]

Agree. Russia deserves a World Cup as much as us or Spain - that's not saying there isn't a lot of work to be done, but the same could be said of Brazil which has enormous infrastructure problems.

The Qatar World Cup is a joke, and if I was one of the other countries that lost out in the voting (USA, Australia, Japan, South Korea) I would be tempted to boycott. Safest thing to do for their players anyway.

It'll happen in the winter because there is simply no way they can guarantee the safety of players and fans in the summer heat. And there'll be a terrible, sterile atmosphere.

FIFA is a joke.

Where is this boycotting bullshit is coming from? Corruption? Entire FIFA is fucking corrupt, and you can bet your house that every single world cup has been sold up to now.

Don't be a sore loser. Boycotting will make these countries look like arseholes. In the case of South Korea, one of countries in your list, they will be hypocritical arseholes, because not only they held WC in 2002, but also bribed their way to semis of that world cup with some of the worst refereeing you will ever see.

[Xxavi]

As for this tourney, I thought one of the ideas was to hold it during the winter breaks? I don't know if it is that much better in winter, but may be that is the way to go.

It's too far away to make any prediction as yet, they may build temperature controlled stadiums. In that case, at least that part shouldn't be a big problem.

[Something Awful]

Corruption? Entire FIFA is fucking corrupt

Don't be a sore loser.

Boycotting will make these countries look like arseholes.

It's corrupt, and yet pointing that out in the most obvious and blatant way possible is something an arsehole sore loser would do?

[Xxavi]

It's corrupt, and yet pointing that out in the most obvious and blatant way possible is something an arsehole sore loser would do?

No, not pointing it out but boycotting, if you read what I wrote.

Why didn't all these countries boycott every single world cup up to now? They have been all full of corruption. Why now sudden surge of honesty that should force them to boycott a sporting event? And South Korea complaining about corrupt world cup tourney? really?

[Something Awful]

No, not pointing it out but boycotting, if you read what I wrote.

Yes. The most obvious and blatant way to point out corruption is to boycott the event. Say you don't feel comfortable with the situation and that you have no interest in supporting an oil-funded Arabic propaganda stunt built on the back of slaves and boycott. Most effective way of doing it.

[Xxavi]

For the record, I have absolutely no doubt that world cup in Russia will be even worse in terms of corruption. Knowing Russia, the bribing and money laundering and robbery didn't finish when they got the world cup. Now, bunch of corrupt officials, oligarchs and bandits are going to be robbing Russian people of their money. If a stadium can be built for 200 million euros, they will make sure to build it for 500 million euros

[Xxavi]

Yes. The most obvious and blatant way to point out corruption is to boycott the event. Say you don't feel comfortable with the situation and that you have no interest in supporting an oil-funded Arabic propaganda stunt built on the back of slaves and boycott. Most effective way of doing it.

I will post this again

Why didn't all these countries boycott every single world cup up to now? They have been all full of corruption. Why now sudden surge of honesty that should force them to boycott a sporting event? And South Korea complaining about corrupt world cup tourney? really?

Or is it because they are arabs?

[Something Awful]

I will post this again

Why didn't all these countries boycott every single world cup up to now? They have been all full of corruption. Why now sudden surge of honesty that should force them to boycott a sporting event? And South Korea complaining about corrupt world cup tourney? really?

Or is it because they are arabs?

Has there been a single worse place to hold a football tournament in the summer than Qatar? There's corruption, and there's "we're not even trying to feign legitimacy any more".

It's going to be a shit tournament with shit atmospheres, I'm at least willing to give Russia a chance because they have fans of the sport there.

[pudgethemidget]

And a bunch of neo-nazis waiting to throw bananas (the best case scenario) or murder some dark skinned fans.

Again, be frank, is it because Qatar is an arabic country? Don't be shy now. I really think it's a big factor for you now. Otherwise, you'd know that only 3 years ago world cup was sold to South Africa, and some of the stuff that went there has been highlighted in "Said and Done" columns.

Also, what do you think of sporting event taking place in Israel? Again, be frank.

Why can't you just take him at his word that it has nothing to do with the country being Arabic? It is a horrible location for a world cup.

[Xxavi]

Why can't you just take him at his word that it has nothing to do with the country being Arabic? It is a horrible location for a world cup.

Where did he say "it has nothing to do with the country being Arabic"?

The only thing he said about being arabic is that the tourney is "an oil-funded Arabic propaganda stunt". What do you say now?

[Xxavi]

Why can't you just take him at his word that it has nothing to do with the country being Arabic? It is a horrible location for a world cup.

For the record, I wouldn't have given world cup to Brazil or South Africa, South Korea or some previous other ones. I wouldn't have given it to Russia either. But the way I see it, OK, if it is a world cup, all countries should have equal chance.

What is awful is that some people have prejudices of their own and try to mask it under some of the usual excuses. Hot weather is not exclusive to Qatar, and back in the day, when technology wasn't the same, games were played during the day in the heat. Still, Qatar's going to build temperature controlled stadiums, apparently. Not saying it's going to be great for fans or players, but come on now, boycotting for that? The ridicule of world cup in Qatar is now over the top, and this ridicule itself is becoming ridiculous.

If it is left to some on here to decide, it will be in England every 4 years. May be throw in 2-3 other possible candidates. Because obviously the corruption of FIFA never touched them, and the weather is nice and blah blah blah. Give it a rest, I have my own preferences, but I can see why world cup needs to be held on all continents.

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

For the record, I wouldn't have given world cup to Brazil or South Africa, South Korea or some previous other ones. I wouldn't have given it to Russia either. But the way I see it, OK, if it is a world cup, all countries should have equal chance.

What is awful is that some people have prejudices of their own and try to mask it under some of the usual excuses. Hot weather is not exclusive to Qatar, and back in the day, when technology wasn't the same, games were played during the day in the heat. Still, Qatar's going to build temperature controlled stadiums, apparently. Not saying it's going to be great for fans or players, but come on now, boycotting for that? The ridicule of world cup in Qatar is now over the top, and this ridicule itself is becoming ridiculous.

If it is left to some on here to decide, it will be in England every 4 years. May be throw in 2-3 other possible candidates. Because obviously the corruption of FIFA never touched them, and the weather is nice and blah blah blah. Give it a rest, I have my own preferences, but I can see why world cup needs to be held on all continents.

I tend to agree with this.

Should Qatar have been allowed to host a world cup? NO. Should Brazil or South Africa have been allowed to host a world cup? NO. You can criticize FIFA all you want about handing Qatar the World cup but quite honestly you should do the same for them for the 2006,2010,2014 votes as well because all of them were corrupted as hell.

Remember when Germany won the hosting rights, The voting was marred by a hoax bribery affair which even led to calls for a re-vote. On the night before the vote, German satirical magazine Titanic sent letters to FIFA representatives, offering joke gifts like cuckoo clocks and Black Forest ham in exchange for their vote for Germany. Oceania delegate Charlie Dempsey, who had initially backed England, had then been instructed to support South Africa following England's elimination. He abstained, citing "intolerable pressure" on the eve of the vote. Had Dempsey voted as originally instructed, the vote would have resulted with a 12–12 tie, and FIFA president Sepp Blatter, who favoured the South African bid, would have had to cast the deciding vote.

Then you go to the 2010 voting for the hosting rights. Morocco should have won the hosting rights if it weren't for the fact that three delegates suddenly had a change of heart and gave their vote to South Africa just minutes before the voting process. South Africa didn't receive as many criticisms as Qatar despite lacking in the infrastructure and being well behind the time table for preparations. In all honesty, if each bid was judged based on its legitimacy then the Moroccans should have hosted the last world cup.

South Korea & Japan applied as two opposing bids however the FIFA lobbied to make them a joint bid and give the World Cup to Asia in order not to let Mexico (who at the time had just hosted a world cup 10 years prior when they were doing the selection process).

Qatar's hosting a world cup is a farce, no doubt. But it is not the first time this happened in all honesty.

[jerseyhoya]

Qatar is so much dumber than all other host countries on so many levels. It's a tiny country with backward stances on many human rights issues. The place is half the size of the state of New Jersey, with 1/5th of the population. There are two cities in the whole country whose population could not be seated inside Anfield. It's so goddamn hot in the summer that FIFA might have to fuck with the club calendar just to accommodate the event. The Qatari national team blows. They aren't big on booze to say the least. It makes no sense whatsoever.

FIFA has done dumb corrupt things in the past, sure. Nothing compares to the Qatar bullshit.

[pudgethemidget]

Where did he say "it has nothing to do with the country being Arabic"?

The only thing he said about being arabic is that the tourney is "an oil-funded Arabic propaganda stunt". What do you say now?

I say it's a fact. It wouldn't matter if they were Greek and oil rich. It'd then be a Greek oil rich propaganda stunt. It's not a bad location because it's an Arab country, it's a bad location because the location is bad. End of. You're looking for a negative connotation that's not there.

[Xxavi]

I say it's a fact. It wouldn't matter if they were Greek and oil rich. It'd then be a Greek oil rich propaganda stunt. It's not a bad location because it's an Arab country, it's a bad location because the location is bad. End of. You're looking for a negative connotation that's not there.

Why did you change your tune half way through, pal? I asked the guy if his negativity is due to Qatar being an arabic country, the guy didn't answer a straight question, he disappeared. You come in here and start answering FOR HIM saying "no, didn't he say it's not because of that?". And I tell you that he didn't say, the only comment he left points to the fact that Qatar being arabic is influencing his opinion.

Now you come in, and again defend him. What's wrong with you? Let the guy answer the question. If Qatar being Arabic doesn't matter to you, OK, good for you. But I have a feeling it is the reason for a part of his negativity.

[Xxavi]

Qatar is so much dumber than all other host countries on so many levels. It's a tiny country with backward stances on many human rights issues. The place is half the size of the state of New Jersey, with 1/5th of the population. There are two cities in the whole country whose population could not be seated inside Anfield. It's so goddamn hot in the summer that FIFA might have to fuck with the club calendar just to accommodate the event. The Qatari national team blows. They aren't big on booze to say the least. It makes no sense whatsoever.

FIFA has done dumb corrupt things in the past, sure. Nothing compares to the Qatar bullshit.

It was bound to happen. Reform FIFA, UEFA etc. If every competition has been sold up to date, in this or that way, it is not unexpected that the countries like Russia and Qatar, with bad human rights records, get it.

To think that the likes of South Korea, England and Australia didn't get the competition because they didn't bribe AT ALL is so ridiculously wrong. I am sure they did bribe, just didn't bribe enough. If you look back into "Said & Done" column, you will see some record of bribing that went on. If I remember correctly, Jack Warner's wife got diamond jewelry when they visited Australia. As a "gift".

[skipper757]

Xxavi, how do you feel about quarters instead of halves?  How do you feel about a World Cup in the winter, messing with domestic football?  How do you feel about the potential issues with alcohol, drugs, etc?

No one's saying other bids aren't corrupt or that other countries don't have human rights problems.  The issue is, the World Cup in Qatar has more problems beneath the surface.

And it's not really a race/religion issue either.

If Turkey had been awarded the World Cup, with cities such as Istanbul (~27 degrees average high in June), Bursa (~29 degrees average high in June), and Ankara (~27 degrees average high in June), there would be a lot less grumbling.  Not to mention they've got a bunch of stadiums already.  Could there be problems?  Absolutely.  Would a bid be free of corruption?  Highly unlikely.  But nobody would be talking about the extreme heat and the potential winter World Cup

[Xxavi]

^Mate, who knows what will happen in 9 years? I mean, in the past 9 years, technology has brought so many novelties, improvements to our lives. May be in 2022 the heat is not going to be issue with temperature controlled stadiums?

I don't know, let's wait and see.

I think the bigger problem for a lot of people is the potential lack of alcohol. Who knows, Qatar may adopt a temporary rules allowing it, I have no idea. Do I think Qatar was a bad idea for WC? Absolutely, I am not arguing that. I also think Brazil were a bad idea given their infrastructure and crime problems, Russia were a bad idea given their human rights abuses and nazi problems.

[skipper757]

Sure.  A lot can change.  But I think those countries who lost the bidding to Qatar for 2022 have legitimate gripes about the feasibility of Qatar hosting.

They feel their countries have less issues with their bids and the infrastructure is set up well already.

I think they're right.

[Xxavi]

Sure.  A lot can change.  But I think those countries who lost the bidding to Qatar for 2022 have legitimate gripes about the feasibility of Qatar hosting.

They feel their countries have less issues with their bids and the infrastructure is set up well already.

I think they're right.

They are right. I won't argue that. But it's been a while now, better start forgetting about it and not be bitter for so long.

[JerseyKloppite]

They are right. I won't argue that. But it's been a while now, better start forgetting about it and not be bitter for so long.

You seem to entirely misunderstand the point I'm making. I'm not bitter, I'm just hugely disappointed that the worst bid, which made the least practical sense, won against some fantastic opportunities. I'm not remotely bitter about England's bid losing - I think that Spain/Portugal and Russia's bids were equally strong.

It has nothing, whatsoever to do with it being in an Arabic country, per se. I agree that FIFA has long been corrupt and the lack of transparent voting contributes to this. I would be quite happy for the World Cup to be in Turkey - in honesty, I would have been quite interested in the idea of a 'pan-Arab' world cup, featuring UAE, Saudi Arabia, Iraq (obvious safety concerns aside), etc.

I cannot see any particularly good reason to hold a World Cup in a country with no footballing heritage, in overwhelming heat, that lacks diversity in terms of venues, with backwards social policies regarding women/gay people. Other than 'spreading the tournament around the world' which, as Alan says above, should NOT be at the expense of the tournament. And 'spreading' it to Australia makes a lot more sense.

I mention 'boycotting' simply as an idea. They won't do it because it won't achieve anything, but I think everyone outside of FIFA (and possibly Qatar) was appalled at the decision, and the rumours of a deal being done behind closed doors were not a surprise.

[Xxavi]

^It wasn't directed to you, pal (the Arab thing). The Arab comment came from the user named

something awful

[JerseyKloppite]

^It wasn't directed to you, pal (the Arab thing). The Arab comment came from the user named

something awful

Sorry, will amend my post accordingly.

[Hinesy]

leave the race issue out of this please. If allegedly there has been corrupt dealings in FIFA over voting for World Cups and you want to discuss it, lets leave the race card out of it. It'll end up making the thread locked if nothing else. ta.

[pudgethemidget]

Why did you change your tune half way through, pal? I asked the guy if his negativity is due to Qatar being an arabic country, the guy didn't answer a straight question, he disappeared. You come in here and start answering FOR HIM saying "no, didn't he say it's not because of that?". And I tell you that he didn't say, the only comment he left points to the fact that Qatar being arabic is influencing his opinion.

Now you come in, and again defend him. What's wrong with you? Let the guy answer the question. If Qatar being Arabic doesn't matter to you, OK, good for you. But I have a feeling it is the reason for a part of his negativity.

Tell you what, if he is against Qatar holding because they're Arab, shame on him.

But I can guarantee you he isn't just by reading his posts. I don't know if English is your first language, (genuinely, not meant to be condescending) but there's nothing from reading his posts that screams racism.

[Lucas DuoFlush]

Its certainly not a racial thing for many people. I agree that most continents and regions should share in the World Cup, but Qatar was and is a bad choice. Why not, for example, Jordan? There are Middle Eastern nations/ "Arab" nations with better human rights records and capabilities to host 2022, and with a more welcoming society. Its supposedly enlightened governing bodies pandering to nations which exploit and degrade human beings, mixing horrific Sharia policies with horrific Neo Liberal policies (ignoring the contradictions between the two because the sole aims of the powerful in these nations is the accumulation of power and wealth).

 The fact that a governing body is in fact throwing their lot in with those nasty individuals and states is something people cannot stomach. They are seeking the enormous wealth and not considering the pragmatic side of hosting a tournament and everyone who isn't a nasty money grabbing "aspirational" bellend will not get a good tournament because of it.

[Euskadi]

No women, no gays, no alcohol, 50C in the shade....

Why would they need segregation???


The whole thing is mental, absolutely ridiculous to hold it there.

Completely incorrect

[Euskadi]

all built on the back of modern day slave labour...

That may be true but these modern day "slaves" are no different to the ones who make your shoes, clothes, toys etc.. Moreover, these labourers will have European managers and engineers telling them what to do and be employed by European (predominantly British) contracting companies. We have a population of 200 thousand people in a country of 1.5 million, there are far more Europeans benefiting from the building of this project than Qataris, in the same way that there are far more people in the rest of the world who are benefiting from  the cheap labour in third world countries.
By no means am I advocating the promotion of our labour laws which I find repulsive and immoral, but equally I cannot fathom the holier than though approach taken by Westerners on the treatment of the workers when they are just culpable for all this whether it is a mass corporation employing thousands modern day slaves in Qatar for example or an expat who has just moved out there and is paying a house maid 200 pounds a month. We are just lucky that our that in Qatar as locals we are protected or it we would be exploited aswel.   

[Something Awful]

Just for the record my opinion has nothing to do with Qatar being Arabic and everything to do with Qatar being a desert nation with no footballing history, no fans and no reason to host the tournament.

If Blatter wants to ship the tournament across the world, I don't mind that. I don't mind it being in South Africa, Brazil, Russia, Japan/South Korea, or anywhere that can support one. I object to it being sold to the highest bidder, in this case Qatar, if the highest bidder has nothing whatsoever to offer as a host. There are many places that can support a World Cup and make it a fun, memorable event.

[Advil]

I think some of you here are just bothered about having a venue in a place where you are not given access to Alcohol.

For me I hope it will be a change, too many are already drunk when they arrived in the stadiums, this in turn results in fights. I dont get it why is it possible for people to go to Saudi, Jordan or Brunei for business trips or courses (Strict Islamic Countries, where you have to respect the Islamic Laws but it is not possible to attend a World Cup in Qatar).

Maybe the Qatar World Cup will be known as the safest to attend after it ends.

[AB LFC]

If anywhere, it should've been held in the UAE. Kinda the same issues as Qatar but it's so much more developed and football there is growing very rapidly (ask Raul, Batistuta, Ronaldo etc)

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

If anywhere, it should've been held in the UAE. Kinda the same issues as Qatar but it's so much more developed and football there is growing very rapidly (ask Raul, Batistuta, Ronaldo etc)

It is funny cause the former two actually play(ed) their football in Qatar not the UAE. Romario also played in Qatar not the UAE as well as Pep Guardiola.

[AB LFC]

It is funny cause the former two actually play(ed) their football in Qatar not the UAE. Romario also played in Qatar not the UAE as well as Pep Guardiola.

Oh my bad. Thought they played for Al-Ain, based in Abu Dhabi

[please, I have my reasons for it but...]

Oh my bad. Thought they played for Al-Ain, based in Abu Dhabi

Raul plays for Al Sadd in Doha.
Batistuta played for Al Arabi also in Doha.
Romario played Al Sadd like Raul and Pep played in Al Ahli in Doha.

[PhilV]

The most shocking thing is how Blatter is still at the top, the man is from the stone age when it comes to tackling racism and homophobia, he needs to fuck off and soonish!

[gazzalfc]

So looks like we'll have a winter world cup

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23351824

Sepp Blatter: Still time for 2022 Qatar World Cup winter switch

Fifa president Sepp Blatter is determined to switch the 2022 World Cup to the winter because of the intense Qatar summer heat.
The head of world football's governing body plans discussions over the change, which would cause major disruption to various domestic leagues, with his executive committee in October.
He said: "We still have enough time.

"The executive committee will certainly follow my proposal. Then we will have dealt with the topic for good."

Temperatures can hit 50C in Qatar, with games scheduled to be played in air-conditioned stadiums.

But Blatter said: "The Fifa World Cup must be a festival of the people. But for it to be such a festival, you can't play football in the summer.

"You can cool down the stadiums but you can't cool down the whole country and you can't simply cool down the ambience of a World Cup. The players must be able to play in the best conditions to play a good World Cup."

Speaking via video link, the head of Qatar's organising committee, Hassan Al-Thawadi, told the conference in Austria: "If it's a wish of the football community to have the World Cup in winter, then we are open to that."

Blatter said his change of heart had followed medical information about the effects of the heat on players.

"There has been a fresh medical investigation into what it would be like to play football there in the summer and we have to take into account the health, not of the spectators, but of the players," he told Sky Germany.

Moving the World Cup to the winter would significantly impact on the the European leagues. Many leagues outside Britain have a winter break but they would need a hiatus of at least six weeks to accommodate national teams preparing for, and playing at, the World Cup finals.

"We have to have the courage - that is Fifa's executive committee - to play this World Cup in the winter and to start to work out now what impact this will have on the international calendar," Blatter added.

"It would only be for one year, afterwards you'd be back to the normal routine. But I will advocate that."

Qatar defeated bids from South Korea, Japan, Australia and the United States to win a ballot of Fifa's 22 executive members for the right to host the 2022 World Cup.

[AB LFC]

Hope that World Cup goes down as a massive failure.

[Zeb]

But, but, but, there's going to be magically air conditioned stadiums? What's happened to the magic stadiums which would allow it to happen in summer? And they were going to have man made clouds to provide shade on the pitch... Will the African countries bribed persuaded by the possibility of owning one of these stadiums after the event be disappointed when they finally get hold of them?

Farcical.