Topic: European and World Champion and all round Big Man Joseph Dave Gomez

[CraigDS]

I think Gomez has the physical attributes to be a great centre back - speed, strength, and he's a good passer to boot (though not quite as good as Matip me thinks). My main issue with Gomez is the decision making, which reminds me of Skrtel and Lovren at their worst. The shirt pulling on opposing strikers at corners, the body hugging of opponents (and not looking at the ball), and the most recent example, grabbing Sterling and giving away the penalty against City (and pls don't say Sterling started it first). He just needs to stop doing these things - it's like in those moments, his brain switches off.

This post reminds me of Fordy at his worst. Absolute hyperbole.

Every decent defender, every single one, does those things as Gomez does them and sometimes you get away with them and sometimes you get punished. He gets away with them a hell of a lot more than he gets punished, as with all top defenders.

The one trait that seems to set the best defenders apart - look at Virgil, Nesta, Cannavaro, Rio, Maldini - is the calmness when defending. They are on top of the situations always, and when they resort to pulling, it's because they are taking one for the team and have made a decision that the foul is necessary in the circumstances. If Gomez can iron out those hare-brained moments, and improve his heading, then he certainly can become a top defender.

Gomez is one of the most laid back defenders I've seen, especially at his age playing at this level (of which there are very few).

[classycarra]

Gomez is one of the most laid back defenders I've seen, especially at his age playing at this level (of which there are very few).

Absolutely this. The mistakes he occasionally makes if anything stem from how laid back he is.

Last night on a couple of occasions he showed some of the same lapses in concentration he was making during his slow start to this season (most memorably the Salzburg game), fortunately not costing a goal.

There was a point where he just inexplicably gave up retreating to prepare to cut out a cross from a dangerous area, exactly like this towards the end of the first half
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1qcAcS4S9s&t=280

And he had forgot to return to the line in time, having a knock on effect on the rest of the defence, like this
https://youtu.be/N1qcAcS4S9s?t=169

I'd have probably wanted an opposition CB sent off for the last man pull towards the end too, but fortunately the game wasn't tight enough for the ref to ref it properly.

[Samie]

He's 23, he's been here already 5 years and just getting better. By the time he leaves us he'll have been here over a decade at least.

[Silverbird]

This post reminds me of Fordy at his worst. Absolute hyperbole.

Every decent defender, every single one, does those things as Gomez does them and sometimes you get away with them and sometimes you get punished. He gets away with them a hell of a lot more than he gets punished, as with all top defenders.

Gomez is one of the most laid back defenders I've seen, especially at his age playing at this level (of which there are very few).

Yes, every decent defender. Skrtel and Lovren were/are definitely decent defenders. But I thought some of us here want Gomez to be a great/brilliant defender, and you aren't going to be a great one if you are taking these chances and hoping the referee doesn't call you out on it. I very rarely if ever see Virgil pulling shirts, and I am not saying Gomez does that all the time - he does it some of the time, and occasionally, when he gets called out for it, we suffer. The more interesting and valid question perhaps then is whether these "mistakes" are because, as I think, he loses his head in the moment, or as some others have suggested, "lapses in concentration".

[CraigDS]

Yes, every decent defender. Skrtel and Lovren were/are definitely decent defenders. But I thought some of us here want Gomez to be a great/brilliant defender, and you aren't going to be a great one if you are taking these chances and hoping the referee doesn't call you out on it. I very rarely if ever see Virgil pulling shirts, and I am not saying Gomez does that all the time - he does it some of the time, and occasionally, when he gets called out for it, we suffer. The more interesting and valid question perhaps then is whether these "mistakes" are because, as I think, he loses his head in the moment, or as some others have suggested, "lapses in concentration".

OK, if you want to play semantics then where I wrote decent please read great/brilliant.

VVD does it loads. I've yet to set a great/brilliant defender who doesn't.

[jillcwhomever]

Yes, every decent defender. Skrtel and Lovren were/are definitely decent defenders. But I thought some of us here want Gomez to be a great/brilliant defender, and you aren't going to be a great one if you are taking these chances and hoping the referee doesn't call you out on it. I very rarely if ever see Virgil pulling shirts, and I am not saying Gomez does that all the time - he does it some of the time, and occasionally, when he gets called out for it, we suffer. The more interesting and valid question perhaps then is whether these "mistakes" are because, as I think, he loses his head in the moment, or as some others have suggested, "lapses in concentration".

Have you watched what opposition defenders do to Mo on a regular basis? Most games you watch nowadays have defenders pulling at shirts, most corners you see feature both defenders and attacking players leaning into one another, or pulling each other here, there and everywhere. Van Dijk didn't play as he plays now when he was 23 years old so why would you expect Joe to be any different? As others have said he is laid back, which can sometimes mean he can misjudge an attack from time to time. The problem becomes when people only concentrate on that and not on the good things he also did yesterday. He got two really good blocks in, say nothing of covering for Van Dijk when he was more advanced. It's part of the life of being a defender, oh and Trent also holds people by the shirt are you not worried about him?

[LovelyCushionedHeader]

Like every player on earth, he's not a robot and will go through peaks and troughs with his form. What cannot be argued is that he is a very good player who given his age is only going to get better.

Regardless of he plays, his attributes, particularly his pace, make our system work more than any other centre back we have. Put a less error prone but slower centre back in the team instead of him and we would suffer as a result.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

Personally I don't worry about his concentration lapses too much because I trust when it really matters he'll be back to his best.

I think his bigger long-term issue is his lack of ability in the air, it's something teams can play on quite a bit (not even necessarily with a target man, but often playing it over him for a pacey player to run onto) and I'm not sure if it's something which can easily be improved or not. To be fair Matip has got a lot better in this regard so perhaps it's something Gomez needs to spend a lot of time working on, but he's a few inches shorter than Matip and VVD so his aerial ceiling is never going to be as high.

[CraigDS]

Personally I don't worry about his concentration lapses too much because I trust when it really matters he'll be back to his best.

I think his bigger long-term issue is his lack of ability in the air, it's something teams can play on quite a bit (not even necessarily with a target man, but often playing it over him for a pacey player to run onto) and I'm not sure if it's something which can easily be improved or not. To be fair Matip has got a lot better in this regard so perhaps it's something Gomez needs to spend a lot of time working on, but he's a few inches shorter than Matip and VVD so his aerial ceiling is never going to be as high.

Thankfully there are very few attackers faster than him to be able to benefit from a ball over the top.

[tubby]

Concentration issues again, got robbed on the halfway line and bundled into his man to try and salvage it, then I dunno what he was trying to do when he tried to head and kick the ball at the same time towards the end of the game.

Relies too much on his speed to bail him out, I like that there's an arrogance to his game but he'll need to step it up next season if he's going to be the second starting centre back.

[rawcusk8]

VVD misplaced a pass to him in the first half that could have cost us but the Burnley player does nothing with it. Then a long ball Virgil completely misses his attempted volleyed clearance and for their goal could VVD close that ball down better, could he throw his body at it? You see these are legitamte questions we could ask about Virgil but nobody will say that. Thought Joe did well today a few little errors but nothing that was worse than VVD.

[cdav]

Concentration issues again, got robbed on the halfway line and bundled into his man to try and salvage it, then I dunno what he was trying to do when he tried to head and kick the ball at the same time towards the end of the game.

Relies too much on his speed to bail him out, I like that there's an arrogance to his game but he'll need to step it up next season if he's going to be the second starting centre back.

I think thats a load of rubbish to be honest. I didn't think it was a foul, let alone a booking on the halfway line and he just lost the ball in the light second half.

Thought he was fine, as was VVD. They just play the percentages and one of them fell for them to score. Helps when you can grapple and push and pull with no foul being given though

[Oskar]

Concentration issues again, got robbed on the halfway line and bundled into his man to try and salvage it, then I dunno what he was trying to do when he tried to head and kick the ball at the same time towards the end of the game.

Relies too much on his speed to bail him out, I like that there's an arrogance to his game but he'll need to step it up next season if he's going to be the second starting centre back.

He just lost the flight of the ball, might have just taken his eye off it for a second and lost his bearings.

He made a mistake for the yellow card, other than that I'm not sure what did wrong today - he bailed out VVD and Robertson in the first half when they each played an uncharacteristically poor pass.

[Samie]

Virgil made more mistakes than Joe today. 

[jillcwhomever]

Virgil made more mistakes than Joe today. 

It certainly doesn't help when both Van Dijk and Robbo overcook passes in their own penalty area, just as well Joe was able to cope with their mistakes.. It seems as if him and Mo are the whipping boys today. 

[El Lobo]

He made a couple of daft ones towards the end, nothing which cost us anything. And he was superb up to that point.

[rawcusk8]

Virgil made more mistakes than Joe today. 

Yet theres no bump of the VVD thread. Maybe we have found a new whipping boy? He, like the rest of the team dropped off once they scored. He, like the rest of the team has walked the league, he should be praised but instead some want to nitpick.

[Hendollama]

For 66 to 68 minutes he was good. And then the whole team started playing bad. I don't think he has performed well recently, but you cant use today's game as an excuse to target him.

[xbugawugax]

shudder if it was lovren doing the same mistakes.

he does switch off sometimes which is kind of a worry but which defender doesn't. VVD is guilty of that too.

thought he had a decent game. Some good and some bad moments.

[rawcusk8]

Thought he was really really good today, brought the ball out very well, fantastic pace against their quick attackers and generally bossed it. He’s so underrated, even by our own fans, still only 23.

[tubby]

Much better today, feels like the whole defence is taking turns to have shockers.

[jillcwhomever]

He was the stand out defender today in control all game.

[OOS]

Much better today, feels like the whole defence is taking turns to have shockers.

The only time I've seen Gomez struggle was when he plays right back.

The calmness and footballing intelligence of the lad is phenomenal. He's 23 years old. If we werent Champions, Madrid and Barcelona would be calling.

[Samie]

Top performance from Joe tonight, shame he had some dodgy defender beside him.

[Enders]

Didn't have a bad game, but one of his weak points is that he's not much cop in the air - I swear he lost almost all of his aerial duels under the ball tonight, and its not like Lacazette and Aubamayang are peak Drogba.

[Willy Poolman]

Top performance from Joe tonight, shame he had some dodgy defender beside him.

I had a good laugh at that. Big Virg might have to take a few bits of advice from Joe. You know, learn to concentrate better, and play to the whistle. Little tips like that.

[Morgana]

Top performance from Joe tonight, shame he had some dodgy defender beside him.

This is hilarious for obvious reasons 

But it really saddens me that, had Joe made the mistake VVD made last night, all the good things he did during the match and over the course of the season would've been instantly forgotten. The "Not good enough to partner Virgil" / "We need Koulibaly" brigade would've been out in force.

[farawayred]

Joe has played better than VVD in the last 2-3 games. That doesn't make him a better player than VVD, but he's damn good and still on the fast learning curve.

[royhendo]

The Bournemouth game's on - easy to forget him starting that game at right back to rest Trent.

[fowlermagic]

He is one for the future who is already starring today as I think he will be the leagues best defender in a coupe of years alongside Virgil. He just turned 23, has probably had two full seasons written off due to injury since he joined us and still looks like a beast. The lad probably would have 30 England caps to his name if he had better luck but the more experience he gains the better he will become. I was loving his potential back in 2016 as knew he had the makings of a CD and definitely our future Captain in the making as will be here for another ten years hopefully.

[12C]

He is one for the future who is already starring today as I think he will be the leagues best defender in a coupe of years alongside Virgil. He just turned 23, has probably had two full seasons written off due to injury since he joined us and still looks like a beast. The lad probably would have 30 England caps to his name if he had better luck but the more experience he gains the better he will become. I was loving his potential back in 2016 as knew he had the makings of a CD and definitely our future Captain in the making as will be here for another ten years hopefully.

Klopp trusts him.
More importantly VVD trusts him.
That’s how good this lad is at 23.
I don’t think VVD would be so calm playing alongside McGuire and he is supposed to be the best English Centre Half at present.

[Sangria]

He is one for the future who is already starring today as I think he will be the leagues best defender in a coupe of years alongside Virgil. He just turned 23, has probably had two full seasons written off due to injury since he joined us and still looks like a beast. The lad probably would have 30 England caps to his name if he had better luck but the more experience he gains the better he will become. I was loving his potential back in 2016 as knew he had the makings of a CD and definitely our future Captain in the making as will be here for another ten years hopefully.

Has anyone told you you're deluded? Trent is our future captain.

[fowlermagic]

Has anyone told you you're deluded? Trent is our future captain.

Our team is full of Captains and has anyone told you to be a little less warrior on the internet lately

[jillcwhomever]

This is a fantastic listen with Joe being interviewed about his whole football career. From when he started off professionally to the present day, it lasts over an hour but its well worth a listen. He comes over as such a nice lad but a true fighter.

https://youtu.be/kdMS_BjuxPE

[Sangria]

Our team is full of Captains and has anyone told you to be a little less warrior on the internet lately

I wasn't being serious. It was meant in the same tone as this.

It'll come. Meanwhile thanks to Souness, Evans, Houllier, Benitez, Kenny and Rodgers for giving it a go. Your endeavours were appreciated.

You missed one out there.

Ronnie Moran was caretaker for a bit.

[dudleyred]

Personally think he’s criminally underrated in many quarters And I’ve seen loads of shouts today for Matip and then sign a CB to back Joel up!

Only 23 years old. If he wasn’t playing alongside Arguably the greatest We’ve ever had he’d be seen in a different light I’m sure. Beyond that I think it could be argued that since the lockdown he’s been at least on a par with VVD

The lads got it all and for me I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t play every match when fit. If he picks up a knock he’ll have to fight and scrap to get his spot back off Matip but that’s the way it should be

[Dougle]

Thought he was very good on the ball yesterday, always breaking the lines, passed well too. Obviously he'll be needled a bit about the team conceding 3 but it was a team collective failure as much as anything. Top man, top player.

[jillcwhomever]

Thought he was very good on the ball yesterday, always breaking the lines, passed well too. Obviously he'll be needled a bit about the team conceding 3 but it was a team collective failure as much as anything. Top man, top player.

Personally think he’s criminally underrated in many quarters And I’ve seen loads of shouts today for Matip and then sign a CB to back Joel up!

Only 23 years old. If he wasn’t playing alongside Arguably the greatest We’ve ever had he’d be seen in a different light I’m sure. Beyond that I think it could be argued that since the lockdown he’s been at least on a par with VVD

The lads got it all and for me I can’t see any reason why he shouldn’t play every match when fit. If he picks up a knock he’ll have to fight and scrap to get his spot back off Matip but that’s the way it should be

I agree with both of these, I think because Joe is the younger CB in the partnership with Virgil when they have a collective defensive day off together, it's automatically Joe that gets the biggest critical comments. One of the Leeds goals came about when there was a big space between the pair and for me you can't blame one and not the other. Another point, these two work so well together that in most games when one makes a mistake the other one covers for him. It is rare a day like yesterday, but I do think we had a problem in midfield which was making the defensive errors seem even worse. Hendo wasn't moving about as quickly as usual, the payback with using Keita is his defensive work is not as good as Fab's. All these things are a balance, I was surprised Fab didn't play from the start. I would suggest if he had we may have defended better as a result. In certain games Keita is a definite yes, but in games when teams flood forward it is more risky. I rate Joel as well I think we are lucky to have three very good CB's.

[duvva 💅]

Got far too much stick for his performance yesterday. Despite being the better of our two centre backs, very little noise about VVD. Hardly the time for knee jerk reactions one game into the season. The way we play the defence and the midfield need to work together almost seamlessly. That takes time. He and VVD are the perfect CB pair and I’m sure we’ll be back to keeping clean sheets sooner rather than later.

[number 168]

Got far too much stick for his performance yesterday. Despite being the better of our two centre backs, very little noise about VVD. Hardly the time for knee jerk reactions one game into the season. The way we play the defence and the midfield need to work together almost seamlessly. That takes time. He and VVD are the perfect CB pair and I’m sure we’ll be back to keeping clean sheets sooner rather than later.

I don't think it's 'knee jerk reactions' the flaws in Joe's game have been clear for a while. He does tend to ball watch and and fall back behind the back four line. He is not dominant in the air for a centre back, often simply jostling with his opponent than going for the clean header. Every player has weaknesses and Joe is no exception. He is only 23 so time to improve but for me Matip is the player I would like to partner VVD. He has a calmness about him and an ability to read the game which we could benefit from.