Author Topic: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs  (Read 26641 times)

royhendo

  • Guest
Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« on: March 10, 2013, 09:03:08 pm »
It was a real roller coaster ride, wasn't it?

I said before the game that the midfield was a worry, and for me that's how it panned out. It was a very attacking line up indeed. But for the first 20, we really tore into them - is that the evidence of pressing coming to the fore starting to manifest itself, I wonder? And we pegged them back pretty well, bar the Bale free kick effort really.

The Suarez goal was a treat, but we had a few moments where we might have capitalised - Downing almost nipped in front of Loris early on and you wondered if their high line would prove too kamikaze.

From the point when we scored, we had a long tentative spell, and for me it stemmed from the midfield, and their physicality and drive being allowed the time and space it needed to emerge. A stupid goal to give away before half time, as was their second really, but give Bale that kind of time to deliver a ball...

Anyway, did you feel Allen coming on shifted the balance?

Did we just need that little bit of luck that's deserted us all season?

Did Suarez merit his man of the match ahead of Vertonghen?

Is Bale human?

But mostly, just give us your thoughts.

I felt Gerrard was excellent today, as was Downing. I also felt that, come half time, we could have used Henderson for Coutinho for that extra bite in the middle.

Over to you guys...

Offline archie

  • bald. Our man in Moscow. And a bloody decent chap. MIA, last seen babysitting.
  • Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,547
  • you're due a duechers
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2013, 09:24:33 pm »
We never really let our heads drop today, that was noticeable.
Sure, we got a slice of good fortune for the second, but we've been on the end of that a few times this season.

I felt we were doing well then dropped off badly just before half -time.

It was a good battle and one which we didn't shy away from I felt. They were beginning to look like they might dominate and the change was a good one for us. Yes, there were errors in defence and misplaced passes but there was passion from the players (both sets) and in the stands. That made it a good spectacle. It doesn't always have to be perfection. And when you are on the right side of that kind of win, it's just as satisfying.

Aside from that, I have to say that the standout piece of football for us was the first goal. I have just watched it again. Quality throughout. Doing comms, I didn't really get the time to appreciate just how good it was.

Once it went 3-2 we never looked like surrendering it. Some will say that was due to a tiring Spurs side.
Maybe, but it was good to see it out without clinging on for dear life on the edge of our area.

As far as motm is concerned, Sky aren't going to give it to the losing teams centre half are they? Have they? Perhaps they should have given his contribution up front.
A pity Suarez didn't sink the nut in Shreeves but plenty of time for that i suppose.

Spurs are a quality side, and I am looking forward to dishing it out tomorrow at work!

Offline Vulmea

  • Almost saint-like.....
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,329
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2013, 01:22:02 am »
Great game, especially for the neutral

Thought we played well for the first 25-30 then once again when we score we drop off or succumb to pressure or something because for the next 30 we were poor -  Spurs are quick almost everywhere and our passing may have worked against other sides but they had an extra half yard - we couldn;t keep the ball especially for a  spell in the 2nd - the final 30 I thought we controlled -  odd how that translates to Spurs 'domination' of the game

Also thought after the Spurs 2nd we gave up for 10 minutes and looked poor - the change with Allen helped because Coutinho had exited the game after being brilliant in the first 20 - he looked incredible at times turning on half a sixpence and his touch was sublime - it was good we had time to get our heads together though

Bale had freedom because he came back on the pitch and we didn't have a player waiting for him- BR said as much in his interview - the ref gave him  a free pass and they scored basically a set piece - he also gave them a free kick and they scored - both times our defence was poor but without those gifts - all of spurs alleged superiority meant nothing - oddly they look blunt up front

Sturridge looked off rather than fresh to me - maybe the enforced layoff effected him but then spurs are quick and that is one of his biggest assets ? There was too big a gap between him and Suarez at times

Spurs looked a good side but thats them at their best and full of confidence that can change as we've seen with the poor rub of the green or an injury or two

we can talk tactics but again for me the game showed the prime importance of goals and the timing of those goals in deciding outcomes and dictating the tactics - yes players should be mentally strong and title wining sides probably have that unshakeable faith but most sides and most people aren't at the level which is why goals change games.....

we also should have had two more pens the ref was useless and on another day that would have cost us - cost me because I had a bet on us winning by 2 - how was the one we got even debateable any other player its a stonewall pen with Suarez its somehow open to question

Brad Jones I thought had his least impressive game - too many ricochets and a couple that were lucky not to be costly - Carra likewise his least effective game - maybe now he's got to 500 we can rest the auld warhorse and blood somebody else? Do Saints have anybody to worry Carra?

Henderson and Allen both did the trick and I wonder if it was indeed a tactic to sit back on our opener whether one should have been introduced straight away to give us the shape we needed to play a more containing game - mind you taking Coutinho off after the goal for tactical reasons would have seemed insane - decisons, decisions

 
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie — deliberate, contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and unrealistic.

John F. Kennedy/Shanklyboy.

Offline Col

  • Shaves his tongue and shares makeup tips. May be a little camp.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,386
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2013, 02:41:10 am »
I'm not going to analyse the performance, as I've been looking forward to this one all week and want to enjoy it for what it was (and what I hoped it would be) - an entertaining game between two very attacking sides on the up.

If we'd have lost that by a goal instead of won it by one, it would've still been a good game - almost reminiscent of the old 4-3 Newcastle games... lots of attacking, some poor defending, but overall just bloody good fun.

Two little things I'd like to point out, though:

Firstly, the media are still sticking their snidey little boots in wherever possible. It seems they really don't want Suarez to win any individual accolades, and will do their best to take little digs and sway favour towards the current flavour of the month - especially as he's British. It's a lot less obvious than it used to be, but it's still there... and it isn't going away. You just have to look at that gobshite Shreeves' Man of the Match interview with Luis after the game. The tide may appear to be changing, but with every bit of praise comes a caveat. Every time. We're not paranoid, we know it's true. Just because it happens a little less frequently now, doesn't mean we should start trusting the rent-a-quotes and agenda-setters.

Second - Michael Oliver. Twice he was conned by Gareth Bale into thinking he had a head injury, twice Bale suddenly recovered and set up a goal. Bale shouldn't have come back onto the field before the first goal until that phase of play was over, for me... and with the second, that was just as blatant cheating as you're likely to see this month (even worse than Sturridge's pathetic swan dive) - a slight brush from Lucas on the shoulder as Bale goes inside him, then goes down holding his face as Coutinho picks up the heavy touch. Oliver fell for it hook, line, and sinker, yet Suarez and Coutinho repeatedly got ploughed into from behind without so much as a bat of the eyelids from the ref. I like the way he tried to keep his cards in his pockets, and allowed Spurs to be physical - it's the way the game should be played, but it should be fair for both teams.

We've very lucky that two individual errors from the Spurs defenders meant that two individual errors from the referee didn't cost us points today.


Oh, and Gareth Bale is a c*nt.
I don't have to sell my soul... he's already in me.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2013, 09:33:41 am »
Strange game and one that showed both how far we have come and how far we still have to go.

For me, Spurs were the best side that we have played at Anfield this season and for periods they completely bossed the game.   It was interesting how the pendulum swung.  We tore into them from the off and deservedly took the lead, our tails were up and I remember thinking that we need to press home our advantage and get a second before half-time.  Spurs started to get a foothold and once they did they strangled our midfield, we could not keep the ball and my hopes swung to holding on until half-time without conceding. 

At 2-1 down I thought it was game over, Spurs looked to be in total control and we could not get a midfield foothold in order to try and create anything at all.  It looked like being another harsh lesson on how no matter how stylish we look when imposing our passing game on lesser sides there was still some distance to go before we would be able to do that against the best midfields in the league.  Then Spurs hit the self-destruct, Downing seizing on a gift and extracting maximum value from it.  We were back level and with Allen adding some bite to midfield we were actually back in the ascendency and looking the most likely victors (though the chance of a Bale inspired breakaway sickener always looked likely as well).  The pressure began to tell, we had three penalty claims in one ten minute spell, and the second of the three was given, and converted.

A lot of plus points to savour; our resilience, the way we keep creating and scoring goals, the way we held on quite comfortably in the final ten.  Our ability to finally make it count against one of the best teams in the league.

A few negatives still to iron out, those familiar lapses of defensive concentration, we remain vulnerable on the break, particularly to players who run at us through the middle (though Bale is a simian-faced freak who we will not have to counter every week) and our midfield was dominated by Dembele and Parker for a period.
Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline No666

  • Married to Macca.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,751
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2013, 10:32:02 am »
Over the last few weeks, it seems to me that Reina's ability to begin an attack, Gerrard's accuracy with the long pass coupled with his equal ability to deliver a shorter lightning-quick incisive pass, and Agger bringing it out of defence every so often, gives us an unpredictability that keeps the opposition guessing and has nicely rounded out the philosophy Rodgers seemed to be espousing at the beginning of the season. It feels much more us. This feels like Liverpool.
Yet for all that swelling optimism and momentum, if you'd have told me before the game that not only would we take to the field without Reina but that several of our key players (Lucas, Johnson and Sturridge) would have poorish games, I'd have cringed in anticipation of the inevitable Spurs win.
We were lucky and unlucky in equal part in the this match: some bad lapses of concentration from the referee cancelled out by equally shaky moments from Spurs. The Coutinho/Suarez/Enrique understanding is shaping very nicely, is it not? Downing showed a work-rate and composure that is making him a valuable squad member.
Gerrard's challenges were effective, can't find his passing stats yet - thought he was excellent. But yes, Allen was needed. As for Roddy McDowall - gifted, sneaky, media darling - definitely all too human and irritating.
Overall, I get the impression we're at the stage Spurs were a couple of years back - where a decent squad is being quietly assembled. I really hope we can kick on and climb the form table even further in these last few weeks, confidence and optimism breeding more confidence and success.

Online the 92A

  • Alberto Incontidor. Peneus. Phantom Thread Locker. Mr Bus. But there'll be another one along soon enough. Almost as bad as Jim...
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,029
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2013, 10:50:15 am »
Loved it, was on nights and should have left early for a six o clock start but leaving early just isnt in my blood and with a game like that I couldn't leave early, stayed to the end then ran through the park and cemetery to the car parked at the top end of Noggsy and got into work for quarterpast six, which wasn't too bad on my mate who stayed behind for me. After that performance I had the lungs of a young Mo Farrar I was so happy.

Don't know why we gave them half the Anny, in the new ground we should give away fans the smallest allocation in some shitty part with bad acoustics, not like we need to sell the seats.

To the game, Spurs are a better side than I thought and I agree with Kev that they're the best side I've seen at Anfield this season. They've got skill and power and at the start of the second half they overran our midfield with both, we looked all at sea but part of me always thought we could turn things around with them playing such a high line if we got a moment of attacking genius which this team is capable of, instead Downing capitalised on their mistake by keeping his cool and using his time rather than snatching at it and being happy with near miss. He's got to be our most improved player, possibly with Enrique in with a shout.


Don't know if it was Allen coming on, the momentum of the goal or a combination but you felt the momentum shift like it did for them at the end of the first half.


We started well and gave them something to worry about thought Gerrard looked great in this part of the game sitting there and pulling strings, looking for passes, I thought we might get two or three and they'd tire after their midweek game but it's a credit to them that they turned it around  but the best bit is it's a credit to us that we hung in there and ended up deservedly winning a very difficult game. That should help with the old mentality. Next season Spurs will be right up there and with  Sturridge, Suarez and a Countinho we might pose teams a few problems ourselves.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 10:59:58 am by The 92A »
Still Dreaming of a Harry Quinn

Offline ashleyrose-66

  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,888
  • Back on our perch!
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2013, 11:41:51 am »
Rodgers was right to make the change when he did.  The momentum was with Spurs, and our 2 in the middle (Gerrard and Lucas) were struggling to keep tabs on the 3 Spurs had (Dembele, Livermore and Parker). 
Dembele is a superb player, and was running the show in there because of the extra space we were affording them, so despite Couthino playing well, it was a sacrifice that had to be made to redress the balance.

We started the game very well, Sturridge looked lively in the opening exchanges and but for a heavy touch around Lloris, could have opened the scoring.  He faded a bit as the game wore on, but has been injured and didn't look completely match-sharp.

We actually played the perfect game to nulify the threat of Bale.  You'll notice that we didn't press high up the pitch against Spurs.  We allowed Vertonghen and Dawson to have plenty of time on the ball, and we sat in and kept our shape against them.
If we'd pressed them, it would have created gaps between our midfield and defence, and that's where Bale picks the ball up and can get his shots away.  It was a disciplined performance.

Two disappointments for me were our ball retention at times, and our fragility when dealing with balls in to our penalty box. 
We were sloppy on several occasions in giving possession away, even when we were not under any pressure by Spurs. 
We were under pressure towards the end of the first half and early in the second half, and we didn't help ourselves by giving the ball back to Spurs on occasions, through nothing other than sloppy play.

We also seem to make a real mess of clearing balls that come in to our penalty box.  We paid the price against West Brom a few weeks ago, when we allowed McAuley to muscle in and score against us, and did so again yesterday on two occasions.  We don't want to be seen as having a soft centre, so we need to try to cut out conceding goals from crosses.

It should also be pointed out that we should have had TWO penalties before Oliver finally gave the foul on Suarez.  PLUS Vertonghen should probably have seen red for handball, which prevented Sturridge a clear run on goal.  Overall, I thought the referee had a poor game yesterday.  I didn't think the Gerrard header was a free-kick which led to the first goal either!

On the whole, it's a great 3 points, and lifts us in the table.  We need to ensure we maintain our focus and don't allow ourselves to slip up at Southampton next weekend, otherwise we have undone all the hard work we put in yesterday.

royhendo

  • Guest
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2013, 11:48:56 am »
The thing is, it underlined how the system is wholly dependent on all of its parts, didn't it? If the sides match up, or if the other side enjoys superiority in any area, it can expose weaknesses. It's laudable in a way that Rodgers persists, feeling that the rhythm will come, and so forth, but I really feel that's an important point repeated in the posts above. This system demands control of the middle against good sides.

It's a tricky conundrum that, because Suarez in that '10' position causes opposing sides all manner of headaches. With Henderson and Allen in the selection equation, he certainly has options.

You really felt that if we had two at something approaching the level of Agger and Vertonghen, things would be more settled throughout the team. That's no disrespect to Jamie Carragher, because I thought he did well, but Vertonghen showed what a player of that class can add. Coates is an odd one - but no point head scratching. We need a solid campaigner with quality and athleticism in there. We need a complete centre half - it'll add so much. It honestly baffles me that they've used Vertonghen at left back so often this season.

On Sturridge. Was his 'quietness' on the day a by-product of that performance? He almost had a run on them a few times. Suarez's ordinarily telepathic understanding was slightly off in comparison to what we've seen in other games, but he still did a great job of opening up the play at times. That left footed switch of play of his is a real treat.

Offline Yorkykopite

  • Misses Danny Boy with a passion. Phil's Official Biographer, dontcherknow...it's all true. Honestly.
  • RAWK Writer
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 34,428
  • The first five yards........
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2013, 01:11:16 pm »
Like most of us, I guess, I wanted a three-man central midfield and expected the in-form Joe Allen to keep a close watch on Scott Parker who'd run the show v Inter Milan on Thursday. Brendan though is nothing if not adventurous and must have decided that the best way of dealing with Parker and stopping him controlling the tempo of the game was to put him into a defensive mind-set. With Suarez and Sturridge to keep an eye on, Tottenham's most influential player would, hopefully, spend more time running back to his own goal rather than pushing forward with the ball. 

For the first 20 minutes or so it appeared to work. In fact within 5 minutes we might have scored twice when, in quick succession, a Sturridge pass to Suarez and a Lucas pass to Downing cut Tottenham's high line into ribbons. At that point Spurs knew they were playing a much wiser and better coached team than Inter Milan. And then on 6 minutes Parker was hit high up the pitch by Lucas who, managing to do what Cambiasso had previously failed to do in the entire 90 ' at the Lane, dispossessed the Spurs midfielder and - via Coutinho - sent Sturridge through on goal. A heavy touch by Daniel spoiled the chance. But that was now three times we'd almost stolen through.

So when the goal came we were worth it. And what a sumptuous goal it was from the footballer of the year. A deft piece of magic by the Inter reject (ha!) and some typically swashbuckling play by Enrique were just appetisers for yet another gorgeous finish from Robbie Fowler, or whatever his name is. 

After that it was different. We never recovered that level of authority again and Tottenham, in truth, were probably worth a draw. They kept the ball moving beautifully, they supported each other with intelligent running and depth, and they had 10 outfield players who were all comfortable on the ball. One of them - Verthongen - is surely up there with Agger as a complete centre back. (I know some of us would like a 'No-Nonsense' partner for Agger when Carra calls it quits in May. I'd like a Verthongen).

As a result of all their possession we began to hit the ball longer than we've been used to. Johnson in particular couldn't get high up the pitch and kept receiving the ball without a single Tottenham player having been isolated. That's not what the new manager wants. Consequently one of our most potent attacking players was reduced to either sending speculative balls up the line or passes back to Carragher (which inevitably result in hoofs from the goalie and Spurs building again). By this stage Parker was all front foot and, using Dembele as a foil, starting to move menacingly through our midfield. At this point in the game it was Lucas who, above all, held us together. A couple of stray passes yes. But, jeez, that lad's reading of the game.

But that was the situation at 1-2 and there can't have been many expecting us to get back into the game. Then Walker treated us to some silver service and Downing took a lovely big helping. Walker's pretty shite of course. He'd made a similar back pass about 5 minutes beforehand and so the warning signs were there. We would like to think that Downing - maybe via Brendan - was on red-alert for a repeat performance.

At two-a-piece, the game became as open as it had been all afternoon. Allen was on now of course, showing us what a valuable player he is. Sheer tenacity when he doesn't have the ball, profound calmness when he does. Sound like a Liverpool player?  Of course it does. He's gonna be great for us.

Gerrard was never going to miss the pen. You could tell. He just wasn't.

At the end the coach and players were all playing the significance of the match down. That's probably right. But we're supporters and we're allowed to dream. We have a sequence of highly winnable games coming up. We have the skill and technique to capitalise. Hopefully we'll have the appetite too. 
"If you want the world to love you don't discuss Middle Eastern politics" Saul Bellow.

royhendo

  • Guest
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2013, 01:50:38 pm »
Brilliant - and with that...

Offline the_red_pill

  • Hasn't got a fucking clue when the Reds are playing next.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 20,667
  • Frankly my dear...
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2013, 02:04:51 pm »
Isn't the way we played how PhaseoPlay described all week long? That was exactly the way we played against Wigan after the 4th goal - lying deeper than normal, thereby giving them all the space they wanted in midfield(thus Dembele) and thereby nullifying Bale's threat(to a degree).

Must say that these are the sort of games we need to win- and tactically at that. Brendan discussed what we're going to do on Thursday already, so we it was great to see us displaying the discipline to see the tactics through.
"Some listen to understand. Others listen to respond."
"A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind."
In such a sumptuous festival of shite, I wouldn't be so quick to pick a winner..

But he'd make the shortlist

Offline JollyRedHuman

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2013, 02:25:27 pm »
Brilliant - and with that...

It wasn't quite the sumptuous Business Class football blowjob I was anticipating, but we won after losing a lead thanks to the kind of resilience that marks winning teams, which is more heartening than I can say. We deserved the win. I was so, so happy yesterday.

But I think we got 'outplayed'—I mean, if we 'outplayed' Manchester City and Tottenham away, then yeah, we were 'outplayed' yesterday, especially in the second half. Tottenham were much better than us when it came to sticking out a leg and making an improbable interception. That's something we could do with learning, I think.

They'd obviously been told to muscle Coutinho off the ball. Their passing was really great.

Apart from that, Gareth Bale is a despicable c*nt.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 02:26:59 pm by JollyRedHuman »

Offline Corkboy

  • Sworn enemy of Bottlegirl. The Boston Toilet Mangler. Grauniad of the Cidatel. Into kinky S&M with the Lash.
  • RAWK Scribe
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,373
  • Is it getting better?
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2013, 02:33:01 pm »
S'all perspective, innit?

Spurs had us on the back foot for the start of the second half, and when they went 2-1 up, you feared the worst. Then we brought on Allen and almost immediately began to look a little more adroit and confident. Our second and third goals were, from our perspective, the result of regaining the upper hand in midfield and pressing Spurs high up the pitch. Walker and then Defoe succumbed to our derring do, and the goals we plundered were our due recompense for the hard work, the tactics and the know how instilled in this team. For the first, Walker simply had no out ball. He was being pressed in front, had his pass back to his centre half blocked and his infield ball to Dembele similarly closed off. For the second, Defoe had Lucas breathing down his neck.

If, however, you're a Spurs fan, well then the perspective is a little different. You were deservedly on top, having secured your advantage by cunningly deploying Dembele and Sigurdsson as wingers who never really took to wing. Then your right back had an aneurysm, followed a little later by your striker forgetting which direction he was playing. Two easily preventable goals caused by individual errors, simple as that.

As always, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If Spurs were still lording it in midfield, it's entirely likely Walker might have found a solution. If they hadn't been pegged back level and under pressure, Defoe might have turned his body away from goal and burned up Lucas on his way out. Very few goals come with no errors whatsoever, and every match is an alloy of what was and what might have been.

Bloody enjoyable, all the same.


Offline walshys_mullet

  • Aka walshys_mullet. Thinks manager is a coward. Only posts in match threads every other week due to rotation. We suspect this is John Aldridge or Andy Gray posting under a pseudonym.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,615
  • We all live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2013, 02:34:12 pm »
Im going to keep it short.

At 2-1 i wasnt sure if we had a way back, UNTIL Brendan made the change to readdress the midfield balance. I was claling for Henderson but he chose Allen, but he did very well too. That shifted the game back in our favour as we started to hustle their midfield and forced them into mistakes.

As for the 'gifts' as the press have been calling them, i would call having to chase a 5o yard ball, beat the keeper on a wide angle, and shoot past a defender on the line, a gift. And qudos to Downing there, that was a difficult chance. When you have time to think theres always the danger of a wrong decision.

The pen was a pen, not a gift!
"If you're in the penalty area and don't know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we'll discuss the options later."

The Great 'Should have been Sir' Bob Paisley

Offline ricflairandy

  • moany grumbling in my day the club gave you gold coins grump of a moaning bastard honestly national service for Suarez and another thing...
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Whoooooooooooooo!
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2013, 02:40:46 pm »
I agree with whoever was on about the ref. He was conned to easilly by bale, and i moreso parker. Parker should have been sent off before the first spurs goal. Took out suarez and then got a snidy couple of stamps in that the commentators thought was "handbags". If you watch it again its 2 stamps he gets and the 2nd one looks nasty.  If it was the other way around you know Suarez would have been off.
http://www.musclefood.com/AH6059
4 chicken breasts free!

Offline helmboy_nige

  • A diplomat... except in the face of total morons
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,616
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2013, 02:53:21 pm »
Quote
It was a real roller coaster ride, wasn't it?

The best kind.  Simply the best match I've been to at Anfield for a few years.  Great atmosphere (aside from when we were 2-1 down), real fight and a game in which the luck went our way for once.

Quote
I said before the game that the midfield was a worry

Absolutely.  while we got the victory and I don't want to be all negative, I simply don't think we are at the right level to be putting 4 attacking players out against a team that right now is ahead of us.  I'd have preferred to see Henderson in there in favour of either Downing or Coutinho.  We were simply over-run from midway through the first half until we got our equaliser.  I like our attacking style of play, but I still feel we need to be careful against tougher opposition.

Quote
Anyway, did you feel Allen coming on shifted the balance?

Hard to tell really.  We desperately needed another man in midfield, but the equaliser was 50% mistake from Spurs and 50% tenacity from Downing.  Then the momentum swung and gave us belief.  I thought Allen did well when he came on.

Quote
Did we just need that little bit of luck that's deserted us all season?

Yep.  If you look back at Everton away, Man City home and away we have been deeply unlucky in these games to not take maximum points.  It's arguable that we didn't look like we would win yesterday and Spurs were in control, but it's amazing how one piece of good fortune can change things.  We earned that result over the course of this season.

Quote
Did Suarez merit his man of the match ahead of Vertonghen?

I actually thought Suarez looked a little lost in the second half.  He just wasn't getting the service.  But that doesn't mean he didn't play well.  And he did score one and win a penalty, so that isn't too shabby!

Quote
Is Bale human?

Is that a trick question.  He's a superb player imo.  But he needs to sort out this 'victim' attitude he has.

Quote
But mostly, just give us your thoughts.

Why thank you, good sir.

I didn't know the team until it was announced a few mins before due to travelling to the game, but was really surprised to see us so top heavy.  I think it's worthwhile trying it out against teams like Wigan, QPR etc but I'd have preferred some more caution against the likes of Tottenham (not that playing a forward 3 is that cautious!)

We started well and got a deserved goal, but then we just let Spurs take control.  This seemed like a byproduct of our lack of players in the middle of the park.  I'd have given my right arm for a Henderson in at half time because the mood was not good.

The goal just before half time, while it was dodgy in terms of Bale coming back on and influencing immediately, we only have ourselves to blame for it.  The freekick was woeful and that we didn't clear it further down the pitch and then gave Bale such space was sloppy to say the least.  Spurs second was similar.  Just seemed like a lack of discipline and typical of our current style of conceding 2 goals rather than 1!

More than anything, that final 20-30 mins were more about showing that belief that has been missing in too many games this season.

Up to 6th, now lets press on.  I said that 6th would be a decent finish for this season, but why not higher!

Offline JohnnoWhite

  • Deliverer of the -Q- de grace.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,968
  • Thought I was wrong once - but I was mistaken.
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2013, 02:55:32 pm »
Watched some of the first half at the airport waiting for my flight. Missed the Spurs goals though - gone by then.

Thought that Suarez did well for his goal. Quality and instinctive stuff - and signs of a clear and gelling link-up developing between him, Enrique and Coutinho  - a bit like it showed last week.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 06:52:22 am by Johnnowhite »
There is nothing wrong with striving to win, so long as you don't set the prize above the game. There can be no dishonour in defeat nor any conceit in victory. What matters above all is that the team plays in the right spirit, with skill, courage, fair play,no favour and the result accepted without bitterness. Sir Matt Busby CBE KCSG 1909-1994

Offline sattapaartridge

  • The new 'pete price' of RAWK.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,535
  • @sattapaal
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2013, 02:59:21 pm »
To be honest, I thought both defences were poor, and central midfield was bossed in the first half by Spurs, and when Allen came on, it changed the game, releasing both fullbacks.
--
Sublime football from Coutinho, his back heel pass, the move, the disguised short pass back to Enrique. Was wonderful football. Enriques pass was good and Suarez' finish was something Robbie Fowler would be proud of. Suarez is well and truly on top of his game.

You could see that when spurs started to get a handle on the game, dembele, parker and livermore were winning the battle and Suarez and Gerrard were getting a little wound up. They were hungry for the ball and fought for it. Then i though this bit was a little cheat. Gerrard shows the world that he's not dead and buried, he is still a quality player with great strength and absolutely hammers Bale in the air. A clash of heads, the little monkey whines for 3 minutes and goes off. he come's on in an attacking position, delivers the ball into the box and they score. Mother. Fucker. Verthonghen.

Out we came in the 2nd half and we did start spritely, as we did in the first half, but spurs held well and continued to pass the ball well. Dembele was strong on the ball and was an outlet, he seemed to win anything coming in his way. Bale I thought was average, and his movement was poor. Defoe was quietly telling his players where to go. Bale goes down, bale takes the kick, they score. Soft. Sinking feeling occurring right now.

Johnson? The Keeper? I dunno, but hell, that was a very very soft goal. Should never have had that much time, as well as the 2nd. We made Verthonghen look like a prolific goalscorer with his 3rd goal of the season.

Off came the little brazillian on came the welsh Xavi. And wow.

I have to say, his grit, determination, his quality at low level changed the game. Suddenly, we're passing the ball. Suddenly we're higher up the pitch, suddenly Kyle Walker was pressed and tried to play a back pass to Lloris and Downing was onto it in a flash, driving at goal. This is the bit when i thought he was going to miss after not taking it first time then not passing. Right foot! Its in! Delighted for the lad. He's come through a shit storm and he's playing brilliantly.

Its been the major change since Sturridge has come into the team that we've become better on the counter attack and we can punish mistakes. Previously we havent been so sharp and when the opportunity arose, we'd fluff our lines. But at 2-2, I thought the game would deservedly stay at this score. But we kept pressing. We had around 20minutes left and they were pushed back.

What was Assou-Ekkoto actually doing? He's a left back, but he was on the right side of the penalty area. But it was such a clumsy "action" that it had to be a penalty. We should have had one in the first half too when Coutinho was felled and i remember screaming for another. I wasnt so sure as yorkykopite about Gerrard's penalty. I was thinking go to his left. They know you go for the right with power and precision. He went left and we scored and bloody hell! Hang the fuck on!

You could see that Spurs started to fight again, I dont know when during the half both Lucas and Glen Johnson were giving the ball away sloppily, and they came at us. On came Henderson for Sturridge who shut up shop down the left.

My fear is that against the bigger teams, we concede our characteristic passing game to them. We cant defend as good against them. Granted Pepe wasnt there today, and one of those 2 goals may well have been saved. But Spurs had Livermore and Dembele playing central and wide (switching), and no Lennon or Adebayor.

I think we could get away with playing this way against 88% of the next 9 games. But I think chelsea will tear us a new one if we concede possession like that. The good thing is, we have 2 systems now. We're predominantly a 4-4-1-1 team and a 4-2-3-1 team. Its good to have flexibility. But no doubt we need some more defensive reinforcements if we're going to be a force next year.
did you know that 10 x 2 and 11 x 2 have the same answer?

Offline Ziltoid

  • Grass. See you at next year's panto (oh no you won't!). Carrot-topped Phallic Snowman Extraordinaire.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,430
  • Scrubbers
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2013, 03:11:39 pm »
Oooops, my replies are in bold!   8)

It was a real roller coaster ride, wasn't it?

Yes it was, thank God the kids were out with the wife.  I was shouting and screaming at the TV as well as pacing up and down the room for the last 5 minutes of the game.  Been a while since I did that.  the kids were happy when they came home - probably because they knew i would be in a good mood (honestly, I was absolutely shattered)

I said before the game that the midfield was a worry, and for me that's how it panned out. It was a very attacking line up indeed. But for the first 20, we really tore into them - is that the evidence of pressing coming to the fore starting to manifest itself, I wonder? And we pegged them back pretty well, bar the Bale free kick effort really.

The Suarez goal was a treat, but we had a few moments where we might have capitalised - Downing almost nipped in front of Loris early on and you wondered if their high line would prove too kamikaze.

From the point when we scored, we had a long tentative spell, and for me it stemmed from the midfield, and their physicality and drive being allowed the time and space it needed to emerge. A stupid goal to give away before half time, as was their second really, but give Bale that kind of time to deliver a ball...

Anyway, did you feel Allen coming on shifted the balance?

I think he made a hugely misplaced pass in the first 2 minutes he was on - I was going a bit mental at that.  Afterwards I thought he was excellent.

Did we just need that little bit of luck that's deserted us all season?

I think the match warranted a draw - It's about time we got a result playing a team that certainly could have won (rather than having keepers playing superbly at our place and some wonder goal by a defender you've never heard of)

Did Suarez merit his man of the match ahead of Vertonghen?

Not in my book. I thought Vertonghen was their best player and thought deserved MOTM; Dembele stood out for them in the 1st half

Is Bale human?

Thought we stifled him in the 1st half.  2nd half he had some decent runs but nothing that made me overly worried.

But mostly, just give us your thoughts.

I felt Gerrard was excellent today, as was Downing. I also felt that, come half time, we could have used Henderson for Coutinho for that extra bite in the middle.

Over to you guys...

The thing that impressed me most was the work ethic and mentality of the team and the way we fought back - the last 20 minutes were brilliant in going for the win.  Downing has got to be applauded for chasing that ball for the 2nd goal and 6 months ago I reckon he'd have missed it, both the ball and the shot.  His confidence is coming on leaps and bounds since Christmas and he's like a different player now.  Gerrard was superb one again and, contrary to others, I thought Lucas had a decent game (especially the first half hour). 

Onwards and upwards
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 03:30:23 pm by Ziltoid »

Offline DanA

  • misses the Eurovision Glory Days.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,127
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2013, 03:14:19 pm »
A few things from my perspective.

Lucas was brilliant. He did exceptional on Bale his only real blemish was the soft free kick given away that lead to Spurs 2nd. The first goal was Bale's first real opportunity to get away from him and in that much time and space Bale proved lethal. Aside from those two bits of play I thought Bale largely was well contained and we've got Lucas to thank. I though the pace would be a problem but Lucas' intelligent position really limited Bale's impact.

Downing was the other that impressed me. He did a really good job on the right. His passing was not only but incisive and this is been building week by week. He took his man on often and created chances but most important was defensive shift he put in. He got back, helping Johnson shut down Sigurdsson & Ekotto when they got forward. He pressed the Spurs defence well when they built from the back and the goal he scored was a nice reward for effort. He had to make up a lot of ground to make that challenge on Lloris. For me it was his best game to date in a red shirt and a complete performance.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 03:16:01 pm by DanA »
Quote from: hinesy
He hadn't played as if he was on fire, more the slight breeze cutting across New Brighton on a summer's day than El Nino, the force of nature.

Offline Armand9

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,119
    • http://armand9.deviantart.com/
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2013, 03:33:45 pm »
I like the way he tried to keep his cards in his pockets, and allowed Spurs to be physical - it's the way the game should be played, but it should be fair for both teams.

Yeah, it was a funny kind of game from Oliver - I said the same as you that I was happy he kept his cards in his pocket, they would've had some but so would we - some refs would be lazy and just have booked Dembele and Suarez for their spat, Gerrard would've got one (not for the Bale header thing, not even a foul) for the challenge around the half way line and Lucas possibly would've got one for accumulation.

Interesting how two sets of fans view things differently, Spurs mob think he gave us everything! Yeah, I know, what bullshit, plus Suarez pen was bollocks apparently and gerrard's 50/50 header with Bale was a red ::) Pathetic

Even tho overall Oliver was conned by Bale twice, missed two pens for us, his actual handling of the game I liked - of course, that's helped cos we won and the aforementioned mistakes didn't cost us
Losing your only chance of silverware this season to your city rival. At home. With the most expensive squad ever assembled.

Have that, you arrogant wanker. CarraG238

Offline LFCDynamic

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,289
  • To support a team in bad times shows character!
    • LFCDynamic - I Have a Question
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2013, 03:33:55 pm »
It was a real roller coaster ride, wasn't it?

Indeed it was. I was left feeling sorry for myself at 2-1 to be honest. So I came online to check what the other scores were. Halle lujah, when I got back it was 2-2!!

I said before the game that the midfield was a worry, and for me that's how it panned out. It was a very attacking line up indeed. But for the first 20, we really tore into them - is that the evidence of pressing coming to the fore starting to manifest itself, I wonder? And we pegged them back pretty well, bar the Bale free kick effort really.

I actually got the exact team that I wanted before the match. Obviously Johnson, Sturridge and Lucas weren't on form and hopefully had just a blip. But, for me that just makes the result even more pleasing. It reminds me a bit of the 08/09 season where we used to grind results out even when we absolutely played like crap. And to do it against Spurs (who I consider the team against which we have the worst record off late) just added to the joy at the end of it all...

The Suarez goal was a treat, but we had a few moments where we might have capitalised - Downing almost nipped in front of Loris early on and you wondered if their high line would prove too kamikaze.

From the point when we scored, we had a long tentative spell, and for me it stemmed from the midfield, and their physicality and drive being allowed the time and space it needed to emerge. A stupid goal to give away before half time, as was their second really, but give Bale that kind of time to deliver a ball...

As I said earlier, I was feeling sorry for myself when we went 2-1 down and was busy trying to tear up pillows watching the match. But, when we got the second goal, it just gave us the one thing we've been lacking for so so so long. Faith. Once we found that and Anfield started rocking again, the third goal just seemed to be coming.

Anyway, did you feel Allen coming on shifted the balance?

I thought Rodgers was going to be made a scapegoat again for bringing him on. But, he didn't disappoint. He came on and performed. As someone mentioned earlier, while Coutinho seems a class act, it seems to appear in flashes. Allen put in a solid shift and helped us regain the midfield battle... I still think Coutinho would be better off playing in the actual number 10 role along with Suarez. I'd like to see two attacking midfielders and one striker....

Did we just need that little bit of luck that's deserted us all season?

Absolutely.

Did Suarez merit his man of the match ahead of Vertonghen?

Probably. At the end he did shift the game.

Is Bale human?

Hate him as a human being. But he's a terrific footballer. So I'd like to think he is human, just so that I can hate him :P

I felt Gerrard was excellent today, as was Downing. I also felt that, come half time, we could have used Henderson for Coutinho for that extra bite in the middle.

Downing was pro. :D He was sensational in the second half. Things could have gone differently if he had missed his second shot, but good golly, the confidence with which he played after that was truly amazing. If only he could keep that confidence up and keep going. He may actually justify his 20m price tag even at his age if he keeps on playing like that.

I think the decision to play Coutinho was just about right. Henderson while robust, isn't technically gifted like Coutinho. I'd like to see more of him and hopefully see him in a rotating midfield in the future packed with class... But, we'll see how things go with him and the likes of Allen.
To support a team in success is easy. But, to support a team even during bad times shows real character.

Offline scottishRED

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,184
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2013, 03:35:38 pm »
The domination of our central midfield by Parker/Dembele/Bale is a slight concern for me.  It's not an area I foresee us strengthening much this summer, but the Lucas/Gerrard/Suarez axis was more lightweight than the Spurs trio.  Whilst there was an element of 'swings and roundabouts' to it, with us on top at times, and them at others, I felt they shaded it in this area of the pitch to be honest.

I was about to type that we don't really have the excuse that Gerrard is getting on a bit to use here, given Parker's age, but perhaps that point is valid given that Parker's equivalent in our team is Lucas, whereas Gerrard's equivalent is the youthful and powerful Dembele.  Suarez and Bale are both obviously world class, but Suarez more of a technical/skillful dribbler whilst Bale more about power.  Perhaps that's another reason for their slight superiority in the 'battle' in the 'engine room'.

I suppose a reason for some optimism is that few teams have as strong a central midfield as Tottenham.  There's an argument that they are have the strongest midfield in the league full stop.

But it does show us where we need to be and my personal opinion is that, when Rodgers tweaks things this summer, we should perhaps look at signing someone like Diame (if he can genuinely be bought for about £3.5m) as a player like this would give cover for Lucas - which the squad needs - and allow us to combat the power play of midfielders like Dembele, Bale, Yaya Toure and Sissoko when required.  (I'm assuming, by the way, that Henderson will probably be sold, despite his recent upturn, as whilst he has great energy, he can't cover for Lucas and doesn't provide enough dexterity going forwards.  It would have been interesting to have seen how he'd have fared on Sunday though - a midfield of Lucas, Gerrard, Henderson would probably have competed far better, though we may have lost some of our attacking threat so I can understand why BR didn't go for that.)

This ties into the excellent point made by Royhendo, above, that the holistic nature of Rodgers' system means it can break down if one area of the pitch, and particularly the central midfield, ends up being physically dominated. 

To come to what is really the nub of this issue for me - my takeaway from Sunday is that we could, at times, use someone more powerful than Gerrard can now be to ensure we can play our game and dominate even the strongest teams in the league.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 03:39:53 pm by scottishRED »
*    *    *    *    *

Offline GrkStav

  • Has a statuette of Lucas on the bonnet of his car which he polishes lovingly with Lucas Brasso. Glen Johnson's biggest fan. Doesn't have a "fucken clue" where L4 is
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,981
  • Not very good at 'banter'.
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2013, 03:45:42 pm »
Just a few observations that appear to have been missed by others:

1. I couldn't tell who it was, but one of Spurs' players twice attempted to man-handle Lucas in the 2nd half and he managed to get away with it. Not even a talking-to by the young referee whom I generally like as a referee.

2. Verthongen is good, brilliant in fact, but he was also very lucky. The first masterful tackle and ball take-away from Sturridge was about 95% luck. He effectively stumbled into perfectly placing his left foot to nick the ball off Sturridge. Watch it again and you'll see. His second goal was extremely lucky in that his awkward shot went probably a milimeter to the right of Agger's right leg and he had the great fortune that our England international RB had managed to take himself out of the equation by falling on his buttocks for no apparent reason.

3. Lucas was primarily good in containing and challenging Parker, not Bale. Furthermore, he was outstanding in the last 20 minutes, despite what some seem to think. His errant passes were uncharacteristic but not enough to warrant 'global' criticism or characterization of his performance in any but glowing terms.

4. 4231 with Suarez as the middle of the '3' was a bad idea and we nearly paid the price. Especially against a strong opponent.

5. Allen's coming on was the right move. Having said that, even as good as he's been lately, he's still not up to the ball control that he showed us he's capable of in the beginning of the season. There are times where it looks like the ball is a wild beast and is refusing to be tamed (i.e. properly controlled) by Allen.

6. Henderson did not play long enough or do enough to warrant any evaluation, positive or negative.

7. Jones is not a worthy second senior goal-keeper for us. Why he didn't come out to punch or grab the ball for either of their goals is a mystery. If we can't get decent handling of crosses by him then what exactly is his 'forte'? His lovely hair?

8. Glen Johnson, at the moment, is a liability defensively. He is not tuned in, he's Djimi Traore-level awkward. And, he's not consistently been good enough going forward to balance the scales.

9. I can't wait for the season to end and Carragher to retire. The romance (which was never much there for me, anyway) has run its course. He is a liability.

10. Downing's goal was, in my humble opinion, more luck than skill/composure. Of all the placements to choose, the one he chose or ended up with was, ex ante, the least indicated.
Ludi Circenses!

Offline scottishRED

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,184
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2013, 04:11:11 pm »
Just a few observations that appear to have been missed by others:

"missed"?  perhaps.  but perhaps also not deemed worthy of comment or not holding the same opinion....you make a number of good points (3, 5, 6 and 7 - apart from the sarcasm at 7; jones is 'okay', just not great), but a number of, to my mind, bad (or badly made) ones - 2, 8, 9 and 10 in particular.

2- you make your own luck, and "very lucky" is too strong a comment.

8 - "Djimi Traore-level awkward"...come on bro.

9 - no.  he's not what he was, sure, and there's a lot of overly sentimental comment about how much he has to offer at the moment, but he's not a liability.

10 - see 2 above.  Also consider the pressure he was under in that scenario.  A miss would have been derided, and he had time to think about that.  He hit the target and he struck his shot well - it was a good goal, and owed a little to luck yes, but a lot more to composure.
*    *    *    *    *

Offline scimitarsam

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2013, 04:15:20 pm »
During the game I recall thinking "I love football", then "I hate football...then "I fucking love football" again!

The key thing to take away for me was the progress in we've made in terms of belief since the West Brom game. Stevie put on a expert captain's performance after Spurs had gone ahead really committing into challenges and forcing the issue. Glen's head seemed to drop momentarily but the rest of the team refused to give in which was wonderful to see - more of that please.

BR's tactics we're working. It was a risky line up and had Bale not conned the ref we'd probably have gone into the break with a 1-0 lead with Spurs being the better team at that point in the game. Bringing Joe Allen on was the right choice, we needed someone to take the bite out of the game and provide effective distribution the middle of the pitch. The media are saying that Spurs gifted us the 2nd and 3rd goals but I'd contend that they were being pressed by the extra man in midfield which forced them into the attempted back passes in the first place. Balancing the team is yet again the key to playing good teams and I think the manager deserves credit for his choices yesterday.

Villas Boas is obviously a damn good manager and he has some excellent players at his disposal. He could so easily have been sat in BR's position. That's a quality Spurs team and we're following them up the table at the moment. I reckon we're in for a good few seasons of very competitive matches against this lot.

Not sure if it was shown on the Sky feed in the UK but in the States Fox Soccer's programming came back early for the 2nd half. The camera was on Bale in the tunnel and he could be clearly seen and heard tuning up the officials while still holding his head....what a shit house.
I am currently away on leave, travelling through time and will be returning last week.

Offline GrkStav

  • Has a statuette of Lucas on the bonnet of his car which he polishes lovingly with Lucas Brasso. Glen Johnson's biggest fan. Doesn't have a "fucken clue" where L4 is
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,981
  • Not very good at 'banter'.
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2013, 04:27:14 pm »
"missed"?  perhaps.  but perhaps also not deemed worthy of comment or not holding the same opinion....you make a number of good points (3, 5, 6 and 7 - apart from the sarcasm at 7; jones is 'okay', just not great), but a number of, to my mind, bad (or badly made) ones - 2, 8, 9 and 10 in particular.

2- you make your own luck, and "very lucky" is too strong a comment.

8 - "Djimi Traore-level awkward"...come on bro.

9 - no.  he's not what he was, sure, and there's a lot of overly sentimental comment about how much he has to offer at the moment, but he's not a liability.

10 - see 2 above.  Also consider the pressure he was under in that scenario.  A miss would have been derided, and he had time to think about that.  He hit the target and he struck his shot well - it was a good goal, and owed a little to luck yes, but a lot more to composure.

re #2: ok, just lucky, then. I don't think "you make your own luck". By definition. And I already said he's excellent. Still lucky. As is Suarez, at times. Great players can also be unlucky.

re#8: Yeah, I am known for being an over-the-top critic of Johnson. Take my adjectives and analogies/metaphors re Johnson with a grain, nay a pinch, of salt

re#9: I stand by my characterization. Apart from "leadership", he's now one of the most average of average "no-nonsense" defenders. He's always been a 'limited' player making the very most of his abilities based on sheer determination. Anyway, he's a legend so I should probably just keep my mouth shut.

re#10: What are the chances that he actually elected to and intended the ball to go right through Verthongen's legs? You have open-space to shoot at vs a non-keeper and you choose to go between his legs? Not in a million years was that, ex ante, the right shot to take. I am glad it went in, but let's not allow the result color our judgment.

Re Jones: He's apparently a fantastic fellow and one cannot but be sympathetic to him in general given the tragedy he and his wife have had to live through. Having said all that, he's still not a good enough goal-keeper to be Pepe Reina's #2.
Ludi Circenses!

Offline Dr_Evil

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2013, 04:33:00 pm »
re #2: ok, just lucky, then. I don't think "you make your own luck". By definition. And I already said he's excellent. Still lucky. As is Suarez, at times. Great players can also be unlucky.

"The more I practice, the luckier I  get" - Gary Player.
Holy fuck lads I got family home. My computer isn't at a hidden place in the house. They saw the penis.

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,990
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2013, 04:33:58 pm »
Sort of agree on the Downing goal. But I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt. I like that he took the shot on but my word it frightens me to think what would have happened if the ball had been cleared on the line with Sturridge right there.

Personally I think he just hit it on target. But as they say, if you dont shoot you don't score. He worked hard to make the chance, he earnt his luck for me through his performance. How often have you seen Van Persie, or Lampard, hit a deflected shot or one that didn't seem like it should go in or got lucky. He took it on and fair play to him for that. Plus at the pace he hit it, with the defender going backwards, if it didn't go between his legs it would probably have spun in/deflected/come out to a red shirt anyway.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Veinticinco de Mayo

  • Almost as nice as Hellmans and cheaper too! Feedback tourist #57. President of ZATAA.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 35,467
  • In an aeroplane over RAWK
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2013, 04:34:44 pm »
I have nothing new to add but just want to express my gratitude for Yorky's post earlier in this thread.  Terrific stuff.  I wish I could bottle it and use it to scent the normal post match threads.

Tweeting shit about LFC @kevhowson Tweeting shit about music @GigMonkey2
Bill Shankly - 'The socialism I believe in is not really politics; it is humanity, a way of living and sharing the rewards'

Offline GrkStav

  • Has a statuette of Lucas on the bonnet of his car which he polishes lovingly with Lucas Brasso. Glen Johnson's biggest fan. Doesn't have a "fucken clue" where L4 is
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 8,981
  • Not very good at 'banter'.
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2013, 04:37:55 pm »
"The more I practice, the luckier I  get" - Gary Player.

Not that what people say about luck is any indication of how it actually works but, have a listen or read of what Suarez says about it. And the man works his tail off, and tries hard, and practices a LOT. There are times where "nothing" will go in. There are other times, as he says, where mishit shots will find a way to go in.

Anyway, you choose to shoot the ball at the defender who's stood on the line, you're relying on luck to score. There's no guarantee that had he chosen to aim at a "empty space" within the goal-posts he would have executed it well enough to score, of course.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 08:07:44 pm by GrkStav »
Ludi Circenses!

Offline Camarero25

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 13,637
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2013, 04:40:27 pm »
Not sure I'd class that Vertonghen goal as lucky.

There aren't many strikers who could've rearranged their feet that quickly and then smashed it in like that, let alone bloody centre backs. What a class footballer he is.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:47:39 pm by Camarero25 »

Offline El Lobo

  • Chief Suck Up. Feel his breath on your face. Toxic, pathetic, arse-faced, weaselling slimeball. RAWK Maths Genius 2022.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 54,990
  • Pretty, pretty, pretty pretty good
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2013, 04:41:56 pm »
Not that what people say about luck is any indication of how it actually works but, have a listen or read of what Suarez says about it. And the man works his tail off, and tries hard, and practices a LOT. There are times where "nothing" will go in. There are other times, as he says, where mishit shots will find a way to go in.

Anyway, you choose to shot the ball at the defender who's stood on the line, you're relying on luck to score. There's no guarantee that had he chosen to aim at a "empty space" within the goal-posts he would have executed it well enough to score, of course.

You could be relying on luck, yes. Or weighing up the odds and deciding that if he hits it hard, on target, he's got a good chance of scoring or creating a goal. Remember he trains five days a week and I'm sure has had countless situations like that against similarly good players.

He's got seconds to make the decision, and he scored the goal. So for me, he made the right decision. If he misses, he'd get roasted not only by us but by his team-mates. So again I think we need to give credit where its due rather than worry about 'what ifs'.
If he's being asked to head the ball too frequently - which isn't exactly his specialty - it could affect his ear and cause an infection. Especially if the ball hits him on the ear directly.

Offline Kop10

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,126
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2013, 04:45:51 pm »
Brilliant win and I really didn't see that coming. I was almost certain Spurs would win even though I dared not mention it on this site. My worry was that Dembele would grab hold of the ball and slow down the pace to Spurs' tempo - and he sort of did. We weren't at our best because we weren't set-up to be at our best. There was an obvious tactic to exploit Spurs' high line and it always threatened to work.

I was at work so only caught bits and pieces of the game but what really struck me was how dangerous our left side was now. Enrique is a weird sort because as ungainly as he plays, he's perhaps even more of a dangerous outlet than Johnson. He offers us great penetration in his passing and movement.

We finally beat a top side - and scored a top goal doing it too. Obviously this one victory is not enough to allay all my fears, especially with the way the game panned out, but I believe it will give the side a lift that they can do it again against Chelsea. Also that belief that we can come back and win against a side like Spurs would be useful before season end.

Downing is gradually showing his villa form now. He's consistently posting 7-8 out of 10 performances and long may that continue.

All in all, I'm sorry for doubting my team could win. I just wish we would have been a little more competitive like so in the earlier part of the season. Sterling and Suso as part of our starting front three cost us a bit in my opinion. Anyways, looking forward to the rest of the season.
"Mind you, I've been here during the bad times too. One year we came second." - Bob Paisley

Offline E2K

  • A seriously talented
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,604
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2013, 04:47:27 pm »
The improvements are incremental but steady; that’ll do for me. We were still coming down from yesterday’s roller-coaster victory as Eden Hazard’s screamer was hitting the back of the Old Trafford net and guiding Chelsea back into their FA Cup tie against Manchester United. Hazard cost £35m and, aside from leaving a ball-boy fighting for his life last month (that’s what I heard, anyway ;)), he’s been doing little enough of late. Still, he’s a £35m player on merit, and Chelsea were able to call on him at 0-2 down at the home of the Champions-elect. It’s the kind of luxury that Liverpool don’t have and the kind of money that Brendan Rodgers will only ever be able to spend on a single player, much less one he can leave on the bench, in the event that: (a) he’s dreaming, or (b) Liverpool eventually decide to sell a certain player that I won’t even mention because, while I’m not superstitious, there’s no harm in hedging your bets (consider fate not tempted). It’s a familiar story for Liverpool – sell in order to buy. Weaken your team here in order to strengthen it there, and you’d better be damn sure that the player you’re signing is worth it because, if he’s not, it’ll set you back three, four years.

That’s the thing about incremental improvements – it’s a slow process and you can often suffer setbacks, but when you don’t have money to burn or 15 to 25 years’ worth of stability at a club, it’s all you can do. For Liverpool supporters, and for Brendan Rodgers, it’s the only way. We won’t ever be signing the likes of Falcao, Cavani or Hazard, and a title challenge (if it ever comes) is likely a half-decade or so down the line at the earliest. It’s not ideal, but it’s the way it is, and this season is a case-in-point. We’ll win less trophies than last season, but we might also finish a couple of places higher and offensively it’s like night and day from this point a year ago: the fluidity, the goals, the increasing certainty that teams can set up whatever way they want and we’ll still score a few. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves, but the improvements are there. Enough to finish top-4? No, but hopefully enough to set the foundations for future successes.

Naturally, however, there’s still a long way to go.  There is still much progress to be made, and it will often be slow and painstaking, that’s just the nature of it. So while it’s been a joy to watch us at times this season (parts of yesterday’s game, particularly the first goal, were no different), there is still that question-mark when it comes to the better teams, or at least the ones who effectively target our weaknesses. Is it a systemic problem that we simply have to hope will iron itself out given time, or is it a personnel issue? Personally, I think it’s a bit of both. I think with a system like the one Rodgers is trying to implement, you need a certain level of quality and a certain type of player. Not necessarily Xavi or Iniesta levels, just players with the ability to play a certain way. Right now, this squad is shaping up nicely in terms of players  who have the ability – physical, mental, technical – to play how Rodgers wants to play. I think (or I hope) that the squad’s capacity will continue to improve along these lines over the short-to-medium term. Sturridge, Coutinho and Allen (not to mention the embedding of youngsters like Sterling and Suso) have definitely improved the overall quality of the squad this season in my opinion, and I remain confident that Borini will add to that in time. I just hope that Rodgers will be supported financially in the summer in order to keep the momentum of such improvements going because it’s clear that the better quality you get, the more players you get that can play the way this system demands, the better the results will be. This is all fairly standard logic.

The next big step is surely the centre of our defence (not so much Agger, obviously), and I’m sure it’s an area that the manager will look to strengthen in the summer. In fact, with Carragher retiring, Skrtel out of favour and chances for Coates extremely limited all season, I can foresee a couple of centre-backs arriving this summer which, in many ways, is not ideal but may nonetheless be necessary. A case of short-term pain for long-term gain, perhaps? Regardless of stats, regardless of clean-sheet figures, this team still has a brittle look to it, something which I can’t see being addressed to a satisfactory extent in the last nine games of this season. Systemically, maybe, but I think this situation needs at least one more player of the right quality to make things click. Carragher’s continued selection over the past couple of months may mystify some, but it’s not that hard to understand. I reckon the truth is that he’s been something of a safety blanket for Rodgers, particularly in the aftermath of Oldham where Skrtel and Coates had a wretched day at the office. I like Coates, and I hope he has a future at Anfield because he’s young and has at least two of those attributes I mentioned earlier (physical and technical ability) in spades, but does he have the right mentality for this system? Will he have the right mentality? Will Skrtel, long-term, I mean? It seems to me that Rodgers is wavering on both of them. Carragher may not be physically or technically adept enough to play in a system like this (not an issue from May, obviously), but let’s face it, he’s in the team for his leadership and organisational qualities. Mistake against Zenit aside, he’s been solid, and solid is good compared to what we saw against Oldham. In the long-term, however, something clearly needs to be done because Liverpool continue to look shaky at the back, and not just against players of the quality of Bale and Dembele.

Luckily, with only Chelsea and Everton (both at home) to come in terms of top-8 teams, Liverpool should still be able to win games solely through the kind of offensive possession, movement and ability we’ve been seeing more and more as the season has progressed. Going with two in midfield yesterday was always going to have its plus and minus points, but what do you do? Leave out Sturridge, thereby making the undroppable Suarez the lone spearhead of the attack and taking him out of that ‘No.10’-type position where he’s so effective? Yeah, but maybe the extra body in the middle (say, Allen) would have stopped Spurs getting such a grip on the game during the 30–minute span either side of half-time where they scored twice, hit the post, and generally dominated? Right, but by the same token, would Liverpool have attacked as effectively as they did in the first 25-30 minutes had Sturridge not been running in behind Spurs, had Suarez not been dropping off and linking up superbly with the likes of Coutinho, etc? Sturridge’s pace and intelligence was a constant danger, and even though he didn’t have a great game, it seemed to me that his mere presence opened things up in a way that Liverpool struggled to do for months prior to his arrival. That presence was certainly missed against West Brom and Zenit in recent weeks.

Yes, there was less numbers in midfield against a top team who were possibly able to take advantage of that by scoring twice and creating a lot of pressure for a prolonged period; it would also be true to say, in fairness, that both of their goals were poorly defended, an issue that I’ve already touched upon. Nonetheless, Liverpool will be playing in this formation for the foreseeable future because Sturridge and Suarez WILL play when they’re both fit, and you have to say, rightfully so, because they WILL score, and often. Against the ‘big’ teams, these two have already shown their worth, linking up superbly for a good hour of the Arsenal game, causing Manchester United all sorts of problems after Sturridge came on for the last half-hour at Old Trafford, combining well at Manchester City, and now seeing through a 3-2 win against Tottenham. There have been games where either had off-days, but that’s four recent games against the top-5 which yielded 4 goals for the pair of them and 8 goals for Liverpool. Throw in Coutinho and a suddenly shockingly-useful Downing, and it’s clear that Liverpool’s main issues are no longer offensive. If that was the first part of Rodgers’ plan, there’s evidence that it’s worked. Now for the next.

I want to finish with a few words on Gareth Bale, who is clearly a superb player who knows how to play the modern game, in all its aspects. Aside from paying homage to Cristiano Ronaldo every time he lines up to take a free kick, he also calls to mind the Real Madrid man in how he draws the referee’s attention to fouls, or supposed fouls. Take the Lucas ‘foul’ yesterday which led to Tottenham’s second. He’s a strong lad with pace to burn, but Bale instead chose to simply stop playing and hold his face as soon as the Brazilian’s arm made contact with his shoulder. No real theatrics, no arched back or rolling around on the deck, he simply stopped playing. He didn’t shoot the referee a frustrated glare or theatrically throw his hands up in the air as Ronaldo might, but the effect was the same (and, by the way, don’t be surprised if he adds those gestures to his arsenal in the future). Ah, it must have been a foul then, right Michael Oliver? And why did he stop playing? Simply because he saw a greater advantage in winning the free than playing on.

Add to this his antics in the first-half where a genuine 50/50 aerial duel for the ball with Gerrard saw him lying on the deck, his foot pounding the ground in apparent agony (the Liverpool captain’s body language was one of pure exasperation), and you’ve got a player who you might be forgiven for imagining to be more at home in the non-contact environment of a basketball court than a football pitch. This, however, would be to misunderstand his motives. My girlfriend wondered why such a big lad spends so much time on the deck (sounds like we could be talking about Drogba here). Well, both of the above incidents led to Tottenham goals, both directly assisted by Bale. It has little to do with physicality and everything to do with tactical advantage. It is, after all, difficult to mark the danger-man out of a game when he’s taking a free-kick or has just come back onto the pitch after an injury (although Liverpool should still have done better for both). If Suarez has been known to take a tumble from time to time, his efforts are usually quite amateurish and easily spotted (one of the many reasons why I hate to see him do it, aside from the fact that he’s so much more dangerous if he stays upright). Bale, however, is already an old-hand. Didier who?

Incidentally, Suarez just seems to get better every week. I’ll be shocked if he gets an award, though, while also being shocked if he doesn’t, if that makes sense? Either way, not a single fuck will be given, either by the player or his supporters. In terms of awards, given that Liverpool will be winning no silverware, the golden boot will be all that matters to him and, should he win it, nobody will be able to take it away from him. It will, however, represent only a fraction of what he has brought to this team. What a player.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:49:41 pm by E2K »
Twitter: @e2klassic
Blog: theredstar.home.blog

Offline Mutton Geoff

  • 'The Invigilator'
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 32,663
  • Life is a journey, not a destination.
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2013, 04:54:38 pm »
For me the game was again like the proverbial curate's egg, still a work in progress but now i can see the progress.

 we looked great scoring the first fabulous piece of skill by young Coutinho in the build up and well measured pass by Enrique and a sublime world class finish from Luis,  we then looked like we could over run them for about 10 minutes including the first stonewall pen not given. We then seemed to hand the midfield back to them whether this was the physicality problem or just a concentration problem within our team i am not sure but Dembele and Parker started running the show, Bale up till then had been largely missing from the game except for the nice pass to Siggurson and thankfully dragged shot he had not featured that much.

We then did our usual lapse in high balls in the box and conceded another headed goal, how many this season and why needs looking at in the summer when we buy defenders. However before this goal only a minor thing but Bale was allowed to re enter the pitch after his life threatening concussion further up than the half way flag. So 1-1 which to be fair maybe on the balance of things was ok, they missed a sitter we had a pen turned down.

Second half Bale was knocked on the shoulder and went down like Rocky Marciano had round-housed him, pathetic play acting to earn a soft free kick, from that yet again panic with a high ball coming in and they went in front with to be a nice movement from the scorer, but he should never have got the chance.

From then i thought they would add to this and maybe should have, but they had a collective screw up and handed us the equaliser, and not sure about anyone else did you think Downing might miss it? Glad he didn't because he deserved that goal on his overall play yesterday.

After this we could have had a penalty with Sturridge but he over embellished it, we should have had one with Glen, we did get one with Suarez though and Stevie very professionally put it away.

So what did we learn well we learnt these players have got some character to come back and win that game, we learnt Coutinho could be a major player for us when fully fit, we learnt that Suarez is a annoying get for defenders to deal with,  but he is our annoying get, I learnt not to second guess Rodgers, i would have had Henderson on for Coutinho however Allen turned out to be a master stroke of management thinking.
We knew we dont defend high balls well on the box, Dembele showed again we need a more physical and skillful player in midfield, we knew Brad Jones was an ok deputy but not the same as Pepe but he had no chance with either goals.

I think although yes  he got some shouts for the pens wrong and he got conned by Bale generally, i like that young ref he doesn't flash cards he chats to the players, another card happy Ref would have given Stevie two yellows for the mistimed tackle and the Bale concussion routine, so he handled that well and really he handled the Parker/Suarez incident with common sense as well.

As for Bale he is a real cheating twat but how many in here wish he was our cheating twat?

(I cant say much about before our first goal because my stream went down for a while. So if i missed anything before then i did not see it to comment on it)

« Last Edit: March 11, 2013, 04:58:01 pm by geoffstrong »
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway

Offline princeoftherocks

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,750
  • black sheep scouse
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2013, 04:56:52 pm »


We were well on top of them for more or less the whole first half.  All tottenham could really do was hoof it up forward totally bypassing our midfield, so no we weren't over-run.  The thing that changed the momentum especially was bale going down dramatically and stopping the flow for ages.  This led to thier first goal.  Thier second goal came after more bale dramatics, free kick into the area, goal.  Bale not in my good books.  Suarez was gettin' stuck in to the game, but I thought it was a team performance and it definitely wasn't the luis suarez show this time.

Is bale human?  No, he's a chimp.
dios esta buena

Offline rbagg10

  • Main Stander
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
  • As always,we are focused on supporting the manager
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2013, 05:24:05 pm »
Fantastic comments from members of the round table, something I look forward to ready every day after the game. irregardless of the score

While 2-1 down, I kept muttering to myself, the balance is not there . Dembele was having a joy with the space and with him being a skilful player, he was making sure no one gets the ball from him whe has it. Parker was recycling the ball and keeping it moving and Livermore was just providing outlets for a pass in the middle and making sure to close the space when Spurs lost the ball.Bale and Defoe just cant get their space they wanted and Sigurdson ghostinga round, fidning the space that both Defoe and Bale dragged our team

Lucas was doing good jon in prohibiting the space that Bale needed, but that means Gerrard had to fight the midfield battle alone with Parker, Dembele and Livermore. Suarez as the no 10 just didnt provide the balance defensively but sure did coz lots of problems when we were attacking.

This made the defnce bypass our midfield , Gerrrard and Lucas and started looking at the runs that front four does, espcially Suarez and Sturridge with occasionally Coutinho doing so.We then saw lost of balls being direct isntead of the philosphy that Brendan wanted , pass the ball around and let them chase us.

Look at the time before Allen came in, how many times liverpool defence won the ball and few seconds later it went back to SPurs defence. We were trying to catch their high line when we break but wasnt accurate enough to get into dangerous positions. If Spurs had not scored those 2 goals, or at leat thes 1st one, we would have continued playing like that until we score again through a quick breakthrough from the defence straight to attack, bypassing the midfield.

Coutinho was magical, he had so much balance , was so smooth in receiving the ball and quickly adjusting the body to signal to his team on where he can make the pass too. One fo the few who can do that was Zidane(not compariing directly) but when Zidane was playing on the left for Real madrid, he positions his body so well , when he receives a pass that the striker knows that he can make the pass to where he runs to.

but the magic was at expense of balance, and Allen coming in provided just that, packing the midfield, pressuring the SPurs players and nullifying Dembele who at one time was slalomminga cross midfield from right to centre without any liverpool close enough to get the ball from him

good game, positive subtitutions that BR made, and also AVB made Spurs team very good.Comparing player to player between liverpool and spurs, how much more did their players costs that what we had? Close figures between the two teams and AVB had made them step up than Redknapps time

Lloris - jones ,  Johnson-Walker , enrique - assout-ekoto , agger-vertonghen , carragher-dawson , lucas-livermore, gerrard-parker,dembele-coutinho ,sigurdsoon-downing , bale-suarez,defoe-sturridge

among these yesterday , who will we want to replace that liverpool had? Other than Reina, generally liverpool has better players , and spurs was able to come to anfield and provided a challenge

Not critisizing BR but spurs and liverpool both had new managers and , but spurs are on 3rd place 9 points above with Defoe only available striker for long periods until Adebayor was available.We will get to where Spurs is by next year , but by that time will also need to be closer to man utd ,man city and chelsea by results , not spending
Priest on a sugar mountain carrying white liquid - Its MILK!

Offline B0151?

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 19,118
Re: Round Table - Liverpool v Spurs
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2013, 05:42:33 pm »
Enrique with another assist. What a fucking comparison with his second half of the season last year. Quite amazing the transformation really.