Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[ShakaHislop]

If the next PM goes to Brussels and says remove the Irish backstop, what do you think they'll say?

No.

[AndyInVA]

It won't get resolved no matter who is leader.  Johnson will attempt to renegotiate the WA, the EU will tell him to do one, he'll then try to get a No Deal Brexit through parliament, he'll lose and there'll have to be a General Election to resolve it.  We'll still be in the EU at the end of the year unless there is a large Brexit majority that resonates from a GE

I totally agree it will not be resolved with a general election

It just always seemed like Boris et al wanted to be the leader after it was all resolved and the hard work was done. Given that it is still 'not done' will he have the balls to go forward as leader this time or postpone again and wait until someone else sees it through

[24/7]

Non.

Corrected

(Je vous impris!)

[ShakaHislop]

No way that would have passed.
Her first big mistake was taking the job. Her second was submitting the A50 before she had support for a concrete strategy in parliament. After that it was impossible and utterly predictable . There is no majority for anything, because opinions are split into a dozen groups or so. It's like trying to find a majority opinion on favorite PL team.

I disagree, but we never got to find out for sure because she never tried it, despite all her hot air about "compromise"

[No666]

Matthew Parris nailing her -- no empathy, plenty of self-pity.

But the idea of Boris in charge of Brexit - f*ck me - I'm going under a duvet for six months; tell me when it's over.

[24/7]

Matthew Parris nailing her.....

Pix or stfu

[ShakaHislop]

I totally agree it will not be resolved with a general election

It just always seemed like Boris et al wanted to be the leader after it was all resolved and the hard work was done. Given that it is still 'not done' will he have the balls to go forward as leader this time or postpone again and wait until someone else sees it through

I'd be surprised if he didn't run this time but I see what you're saying. It could massively backfire and he could go down in history as the PM under whom Brexit was finally defeated (which will be delightfully ironic considering his current status as the saviour of the most extreme Brexiteers)

[24/7]

Imagine a leadership choice between Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and Esther McVey?

[Iska]

If the next PM goes to Brussels and says remove the Irish backstop, what do you think they'll say?

I know, but the next PM might actually be a No Dealer; or even (conceivably) have different red lines on free movement.  Or want a completely different WA, neither necessarily better or worse for the EU.  How do these things change the EU’s position, if at all, is what I’m asking - basically could this reset the clock, or are we still stuck with October 31, I suppose.

[Red Beret]

I know, but the next PM might actually be a No Dealer; or even (conceivably) have different red lines on free movement.  Or want a completely different WA, neither necessarily better or worse for the EU.  How do these things change the EU’s position, if at all, is what I’m asking - basically could this reset the clock, or are we still stuck with October 31, I suppose.

I doubt the EU will grant us indefinite extensions.  It's not their fault we've made a pig's ear out of this. 

The sensible thing to do would be to cancel A50, let the Tories have their leadership election, establish what the new PM wants and what is viable, and THEN bring in A50 again, although probably negotiate a 12 month period rather than a two year one (the EU will want to avoid future scenarios where a country dicks around for 2 years, then cancels, then re-invokes for another 2 years, rinse repeat).

But of course, sensible in this country really isn't an options.

[TepidT2O]

And me that was a touch of black humour.

I know, but I really could see it happen.

[reniformis]

I know, but the next PM might actually be a No Dealer; or even (conceivably) have different red lines on free movement.  Or want a completely different WA, neither necessarily better or worse for the EU.  How do these things change the EU’s position, if at all, is what I’m asking - basically could this reset the clock, or are we still stuck with October 31, I suppose.

If the next PM is a no-dealer it won't make any difference. It won't get past the Commons as it stands. It probably wouldn't even get past the cabinet or the Tory party as a whole however many lackeys they surround themselves with, never mind the opposition benches. The WA won't be changed, unless we actually change which bits of the EU we are leaving. At the moment it's all of it and it's hard to see the next PM being one who says "we only want to leave the single market (or customs union) part of it".

What worries me more is a charismatic brexity PM who could win a majority in a snap election, fuck the DUP off, and put a border down the Irish sea to get Brexit done. Not many Brexiteers give a shit about Ireland in my limited experience. Those thirty pieces of silver are going to bite the DUP on the arse.

[killer-heels]

I know, but I really could see it happen.

Its not.

If anything its in the UK alone where things will get even nastier. Overlay this with a knobhead Tory taking charge and the Scottish referendum, as well as NI and the border, then its in these isles where things could get ugly.

At that point, even Brexiteers will start to like the Europeans again, as it wont be another brit they have to look at, who they want to batter.

[Qston]

Imagine a leadership choice between Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and Esther McVey?

Thankfully that is highly unlikely. McVey is universally hated.

I can actually see Gove slithering/spitting into the position. He has kept his head below the parapet for the last 12 months and appeals to a lot of tories from everything I have read and heard.

[Iska]

I can actually see Gove slithering/spitting into the position. He has kept his head below the parapet for the last 12 months and appeals to a lot of tories from everything I have read and heard.

Yes I can see that.  The game for the anti-Johnson MPs must be to reduce their candidates to a credible two, while keeping as many no dealers in the race as possible, in the hope that he falls below both of the anti-Johnsoners in the MPs’ ballot.  I have absolutely no idea if that is feasible.  How do they choose?  Unless it’s a single-shot fptp vote, I struggle to see him not making the last two to be honest.

[Riquende]

I was amazed she mentioned Grenfell in her speech as some kind of success, I remember her being roundly condemned for her response to that at the time and nothing but criticism for how slow the government has been in taking preventative steps to guard against a repeat.

She's been rightfully called out on it since though.

Utter horror show as PM, she only got the job through saying nothing in the last contest and letting the awfulness of her rivals naturally shine through.

[KillieRed]

Thankfully that is highly unlikely. McVey is universally hated.

I can actually see Gove slithering/spitting into the position. He has kept his head below the parapet for the last 12 months and appeals to a lot of tories from everything I have read and heard.

Do you remember his little face when he announced he was running the last time (after knifing Boris in the back)? He was so delighted with himself i thought he`d wet his pants. He actually thought he had a chance at Head Boy too. The slug.

[TepidT2O]

Its not.

If anything its in the UK alone where things will get even nastier. Overlay this with a knobhead Tory taking charge and the Scottish referendum, as well as NI and the border, then its in these isles where things could get ugly.

At that point, even Brexiteers will start to like the Europeans again, as it wont be another brit they have to look at, who they want to batter.

That was kind of my point

[TepidT2O]

Do you remember his little face when he announced he was running the last time (after knifing Boris in the back)? He was so delighted with himself i thought he`d wet his pants. He actually thought he had a chance at Head Boy too. The slug.

Mind you, it was also brilliant seeing Boris get destroyed.

[Red Beret]

Saw a BBC line, "Theresa's May's political career in three minutes".

I'd honestly say that just about sums her up.  She's been in the job less than three fucking years and managed to bring the country to its knees.

[TepidT2O]

We are so so fucked.

Boris has backed himself into a corner we won’t be able to get out of

“A new leader will have the opportunity to do things differently and have the momentum of a new administration. We will leave the EU on October 31 deal or no deal. The way to get a good deal is to prepare for a no deal"

[Zeb]

We are so so fucked.

Boris has backed himself into a corner we won’t be able to get out of

He's a shit but there's wriggle room in that. He was banging on about how Switzerland's relationship with the EU is fine and dandy too. Wouldn't bet against him trying to flog May's WA in new packaging.

[gamble]

The Johnson Camp have already done deals with everyone, they have it all aligned.

Brexit is, was and always will be a Tory problem. We are fucked because of them. Never forget.

[TepidT2O]

He's a shit but there's wriggle room in that. He was banging on about how Switzerland's relationship with the EU is fine and dandy too. Wouldn't bet against him trying to flog May's WA in new packaging.

But it won’t pass. We know that.

May's deal might have passed if she wasn’t so utterly terrible at politics. It was in some ways a compromise between the two camps.  Sadly for her no one wanted to compromise, and she was utterly unable to change anyone’s mind.

Will Boris be able to do any better?  I doubt it.  Many Tory MPs loath him.

[Fortneef]

I always felt that if May went that a second vote would be more likely under a new PM. However I firmly believe that any second vote now will have No Deal on the ballot paper.

clutching...

Straw #1
Might a chinless braying public school oaf brexiteer in No.10  force comrade corbyn into opposing brexit properly? and inspire lexiteer/protest-austerity-thru-brexit types to finally stop being so bloody minded and admit they were wrong?

Straw #2
BoJo is selfish enough to destroy the tory party rather than go down in history as the bloke what ruined the UK. Unlike May's Col Nicholson monomaniacal devotion to her Duty.

[TepidT2O]

[Zeb]

But it won’t pass. We know that.

May's deal might have passed if she wasn’t so utterly terrible at politics. It was in some ways a compromise between the two camps.  Sadly for her no one wanted to compromise, and she was utterly unable to change anyone’s mind.

Will Boris be able to do any better?  I doubt it.  Many Tory MPs loath him.

Would doubt Brexiters can be talked round to Switzerland as a model to emulate in the time available to a new PM, let alone after thinking they've been promised the impossible. May be possible if the new PM is willing to risk breaking the Tory party to push something through which promises the Single Market. Against that, what's the incentive for 'remainers' now? Same dynamic as each previous cliff edge approaches once more - more chance of 'remain' if the alternative is 'no deal'.

[PaulF]

If the next PM goes to Brussels and says remove the Irish backstop, what do you think they'll say?

Nein.

[Ray K]

Fintan O'Toole @fotoole
So Britain's now had the two worst PMs in its history one straight after the other. The chances of a hat trick seem very high.

[scouseman]

Save us Larry the cat. How can they just choose the next PM between them is joke without getting public backing first? If Labour were anyway a credible opposition the Tories would be toast right now. 

[Elmo!]

Save us Larry the cat. How can they just choose the next PM between them is joke without getting public backing first? If Labour were anyway a credible opposition the Tories would be toast right now.

@PiratesForIndy

Breaking; Larry the cat announces his resignation, cites prospect of sharing a house with Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson as "beyond the fucking pale". It's understood he's approached @NicolaSturgeon for a potential role at Bute House. #Trexit



 

[jillcwhomever]

All those people glad to see the back of May. Let's have a reminder of who our next PM could be, here is a nice article with all his lunatic "highlights." Just as you think this country can't get any worse, it goes and proves you wrong all over again. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-racist-tory-leadership-muslims-letter-box-piccaninnies-conservative-party-a8929376.html

[Cruiser]

It's frightening to think what this country would be like under Boris. He'll go to Brussels, tell them to fuck off and that we're leaving. And that will be it. The economy will then go to tank.

[24/7]

Save us Larry the cat. How can they just choose the next PM between them is joke without getting public backing first? If Labour were anyway a credible opposition the Tories would be toast right now. 

Unfortunately, it's not like there's no precedent from Labour's side - Blair and Brown, remember? That said, given the severity of the situation we are in, I do believe a GE is essential to help shift the deadlock in Parliament AND to clear the air a little......not that I think it will make a huge difference in the end.....

[TepidT2O]

Unfortunately, it's not like there's no precedent from Labour's side - Blair and Brown, remember? That said, given the severity of the situation we are in, I do believe a GE is essential to help shift the deadlock in Parliament AND to clear the air a little......not that I think it will make a huge difference in the end.....

But if it doesn’t end the deadlock?

[kavah]

On CNN tonight, Ian Dunt (author of Brexit: what the hell happens now ) is very good about all of this. Particularly damning talking about  Corbyn - makes him sound like a proper conspiracy theory nutter regarding the EU. And how he literally doesn't listen when the topic of Brexit and the EU is brought up in conversation.

Followed by Bill Cash who just said this: "the EU is imposing it's terms on us ... my father was killed on the beaches of Dunkirk fighting the SS ... the reality is the domination of the EU and primarily  Germany is what the people have voted against ... "   

Fucking hell - these people govern us.

[CornerFlag]

The emotion chip upgrade doing its work.

We think ' English knob heads'

Oh, so you know us then.

[lamad]

Ahaha, Bran in 10 Downing Street would be exactly right; the shitshow that was GOT S8 fits perfectly into the Brexit shitshow.

On a possibly positive note: predictions for the Dutch result see pro EU parties favoured and their far right did not gain as much as thought. Not sure how reliable that is - I never quite trust predictions/exit polls to be honest - but if it turns out to be correct come Sunday, at least it is a bit of good news in the current sea of political nuttyness and depression.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

On CNN tonight, Ian Dunt (author of Brexit: what the hell happens now ) is very good about all of this. Particularly damning talking about  Corbyn - makes him sound like a proper conspiracy theory nutter regarding the EU. And how he literally doesn't listen when the topic of Brexit and the EU is brought up in conversation.

Followed by Bill Cash who just said this: "the EU is imposing it's terms on us ... my father was killed on the beaches of Dunkirk fighting the SS ... the reality is the domination of the EU and primarily  Germany is what the people have voted against ... "   

Fucking hell - these people govern us.

Nit-picking I know but Bill Cash's dad died shortly after D-Day, not at Dunkirk. I'm assuming the error is at your end not his. Not that it really matters all that much. Do think it raises an interesting point though - we see various anecdotes re. pro-remain WW2 veterans (who I imagine saw first hand the horrors of war and the consequences of extreme politics) but you do wonder how many of the older Brexit voters were too young to serve but lost parents/elder siblings etc and still haven't forgiven the Germans.

[Red Beret]

The only saving grace from all of this (potentially) is seeing all these fucking coke heads and buffoons in Parliament having their colours royally stripped from them when the country collapses into No Deal. 

May could have saved herself, at the cost of putting the country first and splitting the Tories.  Let's see if the next leader is the same, because we'll end up right back here where we started.

But at least Cameron and May will be rightfully known as diabolically lousy PMs for their arsing about.