Topic: Molly-Mae, Privilege & 'Hard Work'

[Nobby Reserve]

Social media and reality show 'star' Molly-Mae Hague has caused ructions by saying, in an interview, that people can achieve whatever they want in life just by wanting it enough and working hard to get it, and rubbishing the notion that things like having a natural advantage in life (in her case coming from a well-off family, having good looks, being white) is not a factor.

It's a shocking lack of self awareness.

There was a R5L 'debate' on this earlier and one woman was vociferous in her defence of Molly-Mae's comments, saying that she herself started from nothing and made a successful business through hard work (the inference being that 'anyone can do it if they work hard'), and saying that Molly Mae has worked from being a teenager.

I reject this whole notion of 'work hard and you will succeed'. I know lots of people who have worked - and still work - their knackers off yet still struggle to financially achieve. I know people who've started businesses and worked 20 hour days to make it work but it's failed. I know people who have coasted and had a lot of financial success.

The common theme? Pure luck. Some people are born with intelligence or a keen savviness or a easy-talking manner. Others take advantage of the looks they were born with. Others are born into wealth and build networks in private schools that they exploit through their careers.

In the case of Molly-Mae Hague, she is inarguably pretty. Coming from a pretty wealthy 'middle class background', she spent her teens entering - and winning - teen beauty contests and progressed to modelling and then a bit of social media 'influencing'. It's from this - and due to her looks - that she appeared on Love Island. She homed in on Tyson Fury's brother Tommy on the show, and her 'social media following' increased massively. She's then leveraged this fame to start her own self-tanning brand and secured a plum job at online fashion company PrettyLittleThing.

She's been lucky - she was born into a family with a bit of money and, more importantly, with good looks.

To then claim in an interview that she's where she is due only to her wanting something enough and working hard for it, is pure arrogance.

But there's a wider discussion here. In the R5L debate, a frustrating number of people were droning on about 'hard work' and the need for us all to work hard. It's a very Tory approach to take.

Am I being unreasonable here? Does the recipe for success only involve the ingredient of 'hard work' and desire to succeed?

[Graeme]

Am I being unreasonable here? Does the recipe for success only involve the ingredient of 'hard work' and desire to succeed?

No there is definitely an element of luck too. A lot of these vloggers got into the YouTube game just at the right time. Take Jake/Logan Paul as another example. If it wasn't for YouTube they'd probably be blowing each other off in some trailer park somewhere, instead they're millionaires.

[AndyMuller]

A lot of it is who you know and luck.

[Riquende]

Getting in early on a new trend is a big thing, sure. The internet is awash with people trying to copy early successful formulas rather than find their own niche.

I think as well, people have different ideas of what 'success' is, which leads to arguments on this sort of topic. Whoever this girl is has a load of natural advantages that allow her to have a higher ceiling for what she can achieve, and also gives her a bit of safety net. Other people don't have that, but if looking at her life and aspiring to the same is their target, then they'll be disappointed for sure.

[lobsterboy]

Its incredibly sad that this is what young people aspire to be like.
Vacuous identikit gossiping clothes horse hags who sell their entire lives on the internet to idiots.
Fucking state of the world.

[RainbowFlick]

her comments were stupid but not at all unsurprising. i don't think all influencers are awful, but there's a sub-set of them that are extremely privileged and live a life far removed from ordinary people.

that said, her opinions echo a fair amount of the Tories-to-centrists in this country who are holding on to Thatcher-esque sentiment. she just happens to have the platform and followers for her message to anger people.

[UntouchableLuis]

Its incredibly sad that this is what young people aspire to be like.
Vacuous identikit gossiping clothes horse hags who sell their entire lives on the internet to idiots.
Fucking state of the world.

I can sort of understand it though- many people work their arses off all week while house prices, petrol, energy bills just rise and rise and wages do not.

[redgriffin73]

To then claim in an interview that she's where she is due only to her wanting something enough and working hard for it, is pure arrogance.

It's also incredibly insulting to most of the population. My dad worked his absolute arse off six days a week for his family pretty much until he died, with fairly little financial reward to show for it. I would hazard a guess he knew more about putting in a shift than these 'influencers' do and I'm sure most of us could say similar about people we know.

[Riquende]

I can sort of understand it though- many people work their arses off all week while house prices, petrol, energy bills just rise and rise and wages do not.

I've left education now, but talking to some of the teenagers about what they aspired to was depressing at times. Social media stardom is a very common idea for a way out of the grind. They're increasingly aware that getting a 'real' job won't give them the sort of lifestyle they see constantly online.

[jambutty]

This ridiculous theory, meant to inspire youth, will prove false to almost all.

Reality: The world is full of starving, delusional, unemployed, actor/dancer/singer/dj/artists/wedding planner/rockstar/model/writer types (all beautiful people) who will learn few life skills and not the tedium and slog of actually having to work at something unglamourous to pay the bills.

The faster you rise, the quicker you fall.

Imo, most flash in the pansters, some dazzled by new fame, disseminate this rubbish to increase their fan base.  Unlike proven celebs who know how hard it is to stay near the top.  Most don't. 

Only real talent stands the test of time.

[redbyrdz]

I once read a book called "how to win the nobel prize". It's an autobiography of a nobel prize winner. But throught his career, at crucial moments, there is always a sentence like "at that time, an opportunity came up to...". Which basically is down to luck. He could have been at that exact point in his career, and no "opportunity came up", and he wouldn't have got where he is now.

There are, of course, things you can do to help get lucky - expand your network, and the numbers of opportunities you might hear of will increase. Develop good skills, so you are a realistic candidate for the opportunity. Lately, be prepared to take risks and say yes to opportunities.

The right background gives you a good headstart in all of that - networks often start with family and family friends, and are expanded through education (and work). Having financial security to fall back on makes risk taking a lot easier. Having little responsibilities (for example, not having to care for anybody) makes saying yes to opportunities easier. Developing good skills is easier with a supportive background and low responsibilities too.


Very little of it has to do with "hard work", especially not hard work in the job you already have.

[Kenny's Jacket]

People have no self awareness, she typifies that,

Ive done well in life financially, I took advantage of what we would now call loose lending procedures, pre credit crunch and bought some rental properties. It would be impossible now too many checks

split up with my girlfriend during start of covid, when she moved out my mum and sister (20years younger than me) moved in rent free because Ive got the room and can afford to keep them

So my sister is now in a position where she can quit her 9 p/h job and focus on getting a better one, cos of big brother.

If she improved her life and started preaching about how if she can do it anyone can do it, Id fucking kill her.

[reddebs]

Is it ok for me to gloat that I have no idea who she is 🤷

[CraigDS]

The irony is that most people who follow and aspire to be like her probably do think it doesn't take hard work. I know a few "influencer" types (not the type she is like) and the work they put in is no different to anyone else who works for themselves in a full time job.

The whole idea that success is purely down to hard work is stupid though, there is a lot more to it.

[Kenny's Jacket]

Is it ok for me to gloat that I have no idea who she is 🤷

go for it

I only did when she opened her gob

[reddebs]

go for it

I only did when she opened her gob

If the thread had been about something positive someone had done or said I'd have googled them to find out more but I'll remain unaware now I know she's full of shit 👍

[redbyrdz]

Is it ok for me to gloat that I have no idea who she is 🤷

I haven't got a clue either!

[rob1966]

I haven't got a clue either!

Sadly I know who she is, only because the missus watches Love Island - she came across as a fucking idiot on that.

[tubby]

She probably has worked hard to get where she is, but without recognising the advantages that helped her along the way and just saying anyone can do it is spectacularly tone-deaf.

[Sheer Magnetism]

If you're a top-level influencer you have to put in a huge amount of work even if your career is essentially vacuous and meaningless, but this attitude is something you see so often with Tories. People have to justify their privilege and/or luck to themselves so they tell themselves they got where they are because of hard work. The obvious next step is that everyone who hasn't managed it must be lazier than you, and needs to be encougared/punished to work harder or blamed for their misfortune.

The truth is that if you're on a lower level there's often no way in without a huge slice of luck, or even a vision of where the door might be. Having grown up going to lower middle class schools and mixed with posher people since, there seemed to be a notion for them that everything they dreamed of was within reach, whereas with us there was a subtle message that success or infliuence was 'for other people'.

[Libertine]

For me, a successful life/career involves doing something worthwhile and doing it to be the best of your ability, whether that leads to financial reward or not.

Needless to say, an "influencer" or "social media/reality TV star" does not fall into that category. She may well be rich, but what a worthless existence that must be.

[John C]

I haven't got a clue either!

Thirded

[scouseman]

She is still dating Tyson Fury's brother? That is all I know about her and that she was on Love Island.

[RainbowFlick]

I've left education now, but talking to some of the teenagers about what they aspired to was depressing at times. Social media stardom is a very common idea for a way out of the grind. They're increasingly aware that getting a 'real' job won't give them the sort of lifestyle they see constantly online.

what is the issue with kids not wanting to 'grind' though? ultimately social media, influencing or gaming are all valid and real jobs that can elevate anyone in theory (but often there's some element of privilege somewhere).

most of us are probably stuck doing jobs we don't dream of. when we were young we dreamt of being footballers, astronauts etc - all equally as farfetched goals.

we're all working 50+ years, if kids want to dream of not needing to be stuck behind a desk, fair enough, the world is enough of a shitshow as it is.

[RainbowFlick]

For me, a successful life/career involves doing something worthwhile and doing it to be the best of your ability, whether that leads to financial reward or not.

Needless to say, an "influencer" or "social media/reality TV star" does not fall into that category. She may well be rich, but what a worthless existence that must be.

what is 'worthwhile' though? i don't think someone working a desk job in finance is worthwhile nor impressive from a career perspective, but in society they're viewed as having an impressive career.

[TepidT2O]

In reality, most people won’t ‘make it’.

Even if they work hard, are intelligent, come from a well off background and are white..

More of it is down to luck than anything, not that the above don’t help

[CraigDS]

what is 'worthwhile' though? i don't think someone working a desk job in finance is worthwhile nor impressive from a career perspective, but in society they're viewed as having an impressive career.

Yeah, but if no one did their jobs then your world would likely collapse, so in that case is it worthwhile?

[killer-heels]

For me, a successful life/career involves doing something worthwhile and doing it to be the best of your ability, whether that leads to financial reward or not.

Needless to say, an "influencer" or "social media/reality TV star" does not fall into that category. She may well be rich, but what a worthless existence that must be.

Do you mean something worthwhile as in something for the 'greater good' or that gives something back/makes lives better for others?

Personally I see a successful career is doing something you really love, whether you always wanted to do it from an early age or something you wanted to do later on in life.

I think work and careers are incredibly important and personally I think too many people are either restricted in their ambition or don't value the happiness an amazing career doing something that you love can bring.

[Libertine]

what is 'worthwhile' though? i don't think someone working a desk job in finance is worthwhile nor impressive from a career perspective, but in society they're viewed as having an impressive career.

True, it is entirely subjective of course. And there are plenty of jobs that probably aren't great to do, or contribute much to society, but nevertheless need doing. I just struggle with the kind of "careers" based entirely on self promotion and needing no specific skill or talent. Probably just showing my age.

[Riquende]

what is the issue with kids not wanting to 'grind' though? ultimately social media, influencing or gaming are all valid and real jobs that can elevate anyone in theory (but often there's some element of privilege somewhere).

Well, first is that it's often their perception of it as being easy money - they use IG, play Fortnite or whatever anyway, and think that at some point they can just flip the 'earn big pounds per post/game' switch and that's their career sorted.

The real problem comes when they don't see anything at school as being worthwhile as it won't help them with this 'dream' career. And so when the majority of them do inevitably fail to make it, they've less to fall back on than they should.

[Fortneef]

Is it possible that she (or her handlers) are really quite smart and this is top bit of trollling to keep the clicks coming?

[tubby]

Is it possible that she (or her handlers) are really quite smart and this is top bit of trollling to keep the clicks coming?

What d'you mean when you say handlers?

[Elmo!]

I was visiting some old family friends on Boxing Day and it turned out there neighbour was a big influencer (1m+ followers), this is out in the arse end of nowhere in Aberdeenshire. By all accounts she is a very nice person so I don't want to tar them all with the same brush but I can't help but despise the whole industry and what it represents.

Hard work will improve your chances of being succesful but there is so much more to it. Plenty of people who have worked hard all their lives and not become rich and powerful, and plenty rich and powerful who haven't done a hard days work in their lives.

EDIT: I also had no idea who this person is. 

[Johnnyboy1973]

It just depends on what lengths you want to go to get where you want to be in the future. And I’ll go to any length.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/molly-mae-hague-sparks-huge-25869777

As will others you vacuous bint.

Tommy and I were robbed a couple of weeks ago and it’s without a doubt the worst thing that’s ever happened to me ......... They took everything ...........

You reap what you sow.

Karma will come to the people who did it

Looks like the karma came to you.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/molly-mae-hague-burglary-response-b1954237.html

[Fortneef]

What d'you mean when you say handlers?

noun: handler; plural noun: handlers
1.
a person who handles or deals with certain articles or commodities.
"a baggage handler"
a device which handles certain articles or substances.
"the company launched three telescopic handlers"
2.
a person who trains or has charge of an animal.
"the performance of dog and handler in the ring must be accurate and correct"
3.
a person who trains or manages another person.
a person who trains and acts as second to a boxer.
a publicity agent.
a person who advises on and directs the activities of a politician or other public figure.

[Red Beret]

I know plenty of people who work damned hard, to the point they run themselves into the ground, emotionally, physically and mentally. But yeah, it's their fault they're not successful - nothing to do with having to work sixty hours in two jobs on poverty wages. Clearly they should just leave.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'm not sure 'luck' is really a factor.

Yeah, I suppose you might be 'lucky' and get a top job and everything if you have no talent, no ability and make absolutely no effort whatsoever if your life. But the chances of that would seem to be rather remote.****

I believe strongly that you have to support people that didn't get born with a silver spoon in their mouths and that social, educational and other support should be provided to help them get along.

I suppose you could describe me as 'lucky' - came from a single parent family, lived in council estates and had no money. But I also worked as a teenage - did three papers rounds, cleaned cars in a local garage, caddied at the golf for money, did odd jobs where I could and when I had a chance at a real job, I worked my bollocks off and have continued to do so for 40 years.

Is it lucky where I am? Not sure, but without the effort and hard work and ability to do the job and know stuff and learn stuff then the luckiest person on Earth wouldn't stand a chance of replicating what I did and do.

I'd say the biggest advantage I had was my mum that believed in me, encouraged me and supported me in every way she could.

The difference between people with caring parents that those without are stark.


Interesting discussion though



**** Unless you are a feckless twat with massively rich parents that bail you out every second of your waking life to give you jobs and toys that you didn't work for or deserve - which sadly describes a fairly large swathe of society

[Barneylfc∗]

Yeah, I suppose you might be 'lucky' and get a top job and everything if you have no talent, no ability and make absolutely no effort whatsoever if your life. But the chances of that would seem to be

You've pretty much described about 99% of people that are 'famous' and rich through TV shows like Love Island. If she wasn't picked to go on that and in a relationship with Tyson Fury's brother, she wouldn't be as 'successful' as she is now.

[Crosby Nick]

Do you mean something worthwhile as in something for the 'greater good' or that gives something back/makes lives better for others?

Personally I see a successful career is doing something you really love, whether you always wanted to do it from an early age or something you wanted to do later on in life.

I think work and careers are incredibly important and personally I think too many people are either restricted in their ambition or don't value the happiness an amazing career doing something that you love can bring.

At the same time, you can end up going down a route where you get to a point in life, with ‘responsibilities’ where you can’t just decide you’re miserable and want to start again and do something completely different so you have to plough on regardless. So you end up spending too much time on RAWK to alleviate the boredom.

Or I’d that just me?

[Hedley Lamarr]

Hard work is one thing, having rich parents that can carry your mistakes is another. My parents are quite wealthy (self made). Before my current business I failed a few times because my parents could carry it.  My company is fine now.  I wouldnt be where I am without parental help.

Hard work is great, but without a bit of backing youre fucked.