Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1435363 times)

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33160 on: December 15, 2019, 12:11:33 pm »
*** Saying that, the idiots that voted for it get told what to think by their billionaire masters, so they'll have ready made excuses why it's somehow still 'fowwennerws innit..' and, no doubt, 'Commuwinsts...'
I've seen this stated several times now. But what proportion of UK-based billionaires are actually pro-Brexit? Not that their opinion should matter any more than anyone else's. Though, they might have a near-unique (though narrow or skewed) perspective which might be worthy of consideration.

'Business leaders', presumably, will have a better understanding of how their industries will be impacted, so let's not dismiss them simply because they are rich. We might be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

So, anyway. I don't think Tim Martin or James Dyson are representative of rich UK business men and women when it comes to Brexit.
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Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33161 on: December 15, 2019, 12:13:06 pm »
I've seen this stated several times now. But what proportion of UK-based billionaires are actually pro-Brexit? Not that their opinion should matter any more than anyone else's. Though, they might have a near-unique (though narrow or skewed) perspective which might be worthy of consideration.

'Business leaders', presumably, will have a better understanding of how their industries will be impacted, so let's not dismiss them simply because they are rich. We might be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

So, anyway. I don't think Tim Martin or James Dyson are representative of rich UK business men and women when it comes to Brexit.

I was referring to the Billionaires that run the UK Media industries.
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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33162 on: December 15, 2019, 12:19:12 pm »
I've seen this stated several times now. But what proportion of UK-based billionaires are actually pro-Brexit? Not that their opinion should matter any more than anyone else's. Though, they might have a near-unique (though narrow or skewed) perspective which might be worthy of consideration.

'Business leaders', presumably, will have a better understanding of how their industries will be impacted, so let's not dismiss them simply because they are rich. We might be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

So, anyway. I don't think Tim Martin or James Dyson are representative of rich UK business men and women when it comes to Brexit.

Unfortunately Tim and Jim are promoted as the rich,successful face of Brexit.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33163 on: December 15, 2019, 12:19:56 pm »
I was referring to the Billionaires that run the UK Media industries.
Oh, that's a different matter altogether. First, I'd make it a requirement to be a UK domicile if you hold a significant share ownership of a national media company. Second, there must be strict restrictions on the total proportion of shares across the whole media industry. No more than a single significant share of a national media company, and sensible restrictions and ownership of multiple regional companies would be sensible. Obviously, Murdoch would have his holdings split up.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 12:22:30 pm by Jiminy Cricket »
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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33164 on: December 15, 2019, 12:53:07 pm »
Oh, that's a different matter altogether. First, I'd make it a requirement to be a UK domicile if you hold a significant share ownership of a national media company. Second, there must be strict restrictions on the total proportion of shares across the whole media industry. No more than a single significant share of a national media company, and sensible restrictions and ownership of multiple regional companies would be sensible. Obviously, Murdoch would have his holdings split up.

Which is why it would never happen. They effectively run the country.

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Online oldfordie

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33165 on: December 15, 2019, 01:54:21 pm »
Thing is, this is happening - so I guess we'd better accept it.

But fuck accepting those arseholes that pushed it through or those that voted to make it happen.

Good luck with those dickheads saying 'They will bring the country together' once people realise how fucked everything is because of it***




*** Saying that, the idiots that voted for it get told what to think by their billionaire masters, so they'll have ready made excuses why it's somehow still 'fowwennerws innit..' and, no doubt, 'Commuwinsts...'
The uniting the country argument lasts till around July I imagine when a no deal decision starts to become realty, will Johnson ask for a further extension to transition to get the trade deal as all the trade experts agree 1 yr is not enough time. Johnsons put himself in a impossible position, choice is a no deal and his past pro EU statements show he knows it will bring disaster or he sends the ERG nutcases into a frenzy agreeing to at least 2 more ys aligned to the EU. get brexit done, lol. we are just starting the ball rolling for many years to come.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 01:55:58 pm by oldfordie »
It might take our producers five minutes to find 60 economists who feared Brexit and five hours to find a sole voice who espoused it.
“But by the time we went on air we simply had one of each; we presented this unequal effort to our audience as balance. It wasn’t.”
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33166 on: December 15, 2019, 01:56:59 pm »
McDonnell was fucking dog shit earlier.

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33167 on: December 15, 2019, 02:08:56 pm »
Very good piece this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/15/blair-old-seat-sedgefield-rejected-corbyn-perceived-unpatriotic


In Blair’s old seat, the regulars agree: ‘Corbyn doesn’t understand us here’
They come from pit families with strong military ties – and it was patriotism that made them switch their vote for the first time


Sedgefield had not only returned solid Labour majorities since 1935, it was also the symbolic home of the politician who, by the time of the next election, will be the only Labour election winner in half a century. Johnson wore an ironic red tie for the occasion, and came close to quoting some of Tony Blair’s most famous lines verbatim. “We are not the masters, we are the servants, and our job is to serve the people of this country,” he said. Even when he is making gestures of one-nation humility, he can’t help himself from trolling.

You can intellectualise the collapse of Labour’s vote in its north-east heartlands, but it is still a surreal spectacle up close. How had it happened? I had spent the previous evening at Fishburn Working Men’s Club, a mile down the road from Tony Blair’s old constituency home, asking that question. Downstairs, in the party room, there is a battle-worn miners’ banner in a glass case bearing the stern face of Keir Hardie; it is brought out each year to head the Durham miners’ parade. On the walls of the main bar, there are paintings of the former Fishburn colliery which once employed nearly every family in this village and, in pride of place, above the red leather seating, a solemn tableau of the “pits closed by the Tories”, row upon row of lost mines, each with its symbolic badge of arms.

Underneath this memorial, on Friday night, regulars at the club for 40 and 50 years explained to me, one after the other, how for the first time in their lives they had voted Conservative at this election.

That collective shift of will in Sedgefield saw the most formidable of Labour majorities crumble to a defeat for Phil Wilson, “the heir to Blair”. Blair remains an honorary member at Fishburn I’m told (“though possibly lapsed”); he won a majority of 25,000 in 1997. The Labour vote this time around was only 15,000 in total. When the news had come through at 3.30am, midway through Corbyn’s statement of defeat, the Conservative campaign headquarters pumped Things Can Only Get Better through its loudspeakers.

“If you are on the doorstep and one person mentions Brexit, but five people mention the leader of the Labour party for being the reason they are not going to vote for you, then things need to change. I believe that the leader of the Labour party should not be resigning today, he should have resigned a long time ago.”

Any Momentum diehard who doubts the truth of that sentiment up here should come and talk to the Fishburn regulars. Arthur Hudspeth is playing the fruit machine in the social club. He recently celebrated his 91st birthday. He went down the pit at 14 in 1942 and worked in mines until his retirement at 65. The only two years he missed were for his national service: “first battalion of the Durhams” he tells me, looking me in the eye. He has voted Labour without fail in every election since Attlee’s victory in 1945, but not this time. He is ashamed to say he didn’t vote at all, but winces at the mention of Corbyn’s name and shakes his head. Why? “Rubbish. He’s not my kind of man. Not strong enough. He doesn’t understand us here.”

Offline TSC

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33168 on: December 15, 2019, 02:28:20 pm »
In the short term an internal Tory battle may ensue between the ERG types who want a no deal brexit and Johnson who will want his deal to sail through.  He can head this off in January by changing the make up of his cabinet, given his ‘strength’ after the election.

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33169 on: December 15, 2019, 02:34:48 pm »
In the short term an internal Tory battle may ensue between the ERG types who want a no deal brexit and Johnson who will want his deal to sail through.  He can head this off in January by changing the make up of his cabinet, given his ‘strength’ after the election.

It'll be interesting how hard line the new batch of Tory MPs are. May be some surprises in there.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33170 on: December 15, 2019, 02:42:49 pm »
McDonnell was fucking dog shit earlier.
And that is news, how?
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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33171 on: December 15, 2019, 02:45:22 pm »
And that is news, how?

And a bit irrelevant to this thread?

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33172 on: December 15, 2019, 02:45:29 pm »
And that is news, how?

I heard he had become closer to Starmer but today he was in pure bunker mode. Burgeon, Long-Bailey, Butler and Raynor his choices.

Fuck off.

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33173 on: December 15, 2019, 02:48:07 pm »
It'll be interesting how hard line the new batch of Tory MPs are. May be some surprises in there.

Id be more interested in how his advisors fair. All the stories I read that there was a battle between his more spend free advisors and his more old school Tory MP’s like Javid.

As usual I reckon its going to be a Number 10 vs Number 11 battle again like there seems to be forever. The reports said Cummings wanted to go to town on the Treasury, which isnt a bad thing.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33174 on: December 15, 2019, 02:49:10 pm »
And a bit irrelevant to this thread?
I'm not a stickler for such things. I don't mind the odd tangent.
I heard he had become closer to Starmer but today he was in pure bunker mode. Burgeon, Long-Bailey, Butler and Raynor his choices.

Fuck off.
Yeah. I wasn't being serious. I expect nothing better of him. Not that I've heard/read it yet. Link?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 03:03:35 pm by Jiminy Cricket »
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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33175 on: December 15, 2019, 02:55:22 pm »
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Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33176 on: December 15, 2019, 02:57:03 pm »
I'm not a stickler for such things. I don't mind the odd tangent.Yeah. I wasn't being serious. I expect nothing better of him. Not that I've head/read it yet. Link?

Aah but the tangent looked like it was leading back to the quagmire of the politics thread, the Mods nightmare before Xmas.

Offline rob1966

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33177 on: December 15, 2019, 03:11:58 pm »
i would say there us a fair chance of Lidl and Aldi downsizing when the cost of bringing in their products from Europe goes up massively

Lidl may struggle as they still use a European model, but Aldi have got it sussed.

In 2017, 77% of Aldi products were sourced from within the UK, judging from what I see on the shelves, its probably a lot more now. They also do a lot to keep costs low, they only run 1500 lines, they don't offer variations - all the sauces are Bramwells for example, the shelves are all the same size and slide out, so staff just pull out an empty tray and roll in a new one, the distribution centres are self tip and self load, so both supplier and Aldi drivers load and unload their own trailers. Their savings allow them to buy better products too, Kellogs don't make their cereals anymore, but I think Nestle do it now, the steaks they get from the same supplier as a high end supermarket (which will be M&S or Waitrose) and are a lot cheaper. Most of my shopping is Aldi now because the food is great.

Aldi are building a new supermarket just down the road from me, that is the 3rd or 4th in Trafford that I know of in the past 2 years and intend to have 1000 stores by 2022.
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Offline Jiminy Cricket

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33178 on: December 15, 2019, 03:13:38 pm »
Aah but the tangent looked like it was leading back to the quagmire of the politics thread, the Mods nightmare before Xmas.
I take your point.

So, to bring this back to the subject (and title) of this thread*, I will make not ten, but a single prediction: (having watched the McDonnell interview with Marr) there will be no change in direction for the Labour Party.

* Yeah, I know.
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33179 on: December 15, 2019, 03:16:42 pm »
That piece about Sedgefield is depressing, do they not realise the Tories think they are nothing but scum, to be used and abused for their own ends? This is what Stanley Johnson thinks of most of us

Uh-oh – Stanley Johnson said the quiet part out loud. During a recent appearance on the BBC, the prime minister’s dad stated explicitly what has always been obvious: the Tory party thinks the British public are a bunch of idiots. Responding to the fact that a viewer had called his son “Pinocchio”, Johnson harrumphed: “Pinocchio? Pinocchio? That requires a degree of literacy which I think the Great British public doesn’t necessarily have … They couldn’t spell Pinocchio if they tried.”

More from the article

What is it with the British? Johnson could call the “Great British public” all manner of names and it would not affect his son’s chance of being re-elected. We are not a nation of shopkeepers; we are a nation of butlers, footmen and lady’s maids. We still show ridiculous reverence towards the monarchy. We still show an embarrassing deference to the aristocrats and Old Etonians who rule over us. That deference is even more embarrassing when you consider how little effort the party of privilege puts into showing respect towards ordinary people. The Conservatives have let the mask slip many times. Remember when Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson mocked the 16% “of our species” with an IQ below 85? When Jacob Rees-Mogg said Grenfell victims lacked “common sense”? When the Tory MP Andrew Bridgen backed him up and suggested Rees-Mogg was cleverer than the people who had died in the fire? When Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove said that people who were forced to go to food banks had brought it on themselves because they were not “best able to manage their finances”?

The Conservatives have made it abundantly clear how little respect they have for the British people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/stanley-and-boris-johnson-express-contempt-for-the-british-public-why-do-we-accept-it
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Offline Red-Soldier

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33180 on: December 15, 2019, 03:30:58 pm »


The Johnson's are right though in that respect.  The majority of people in this country are fucking idiots!  You still have to convince them to vote for you though.

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33181 on: December 15, 2019, 03:34:58 pm »
The Johnson's are right though in that respect.  The majority of people in this country are fucking idiots!  You still have to convince them to vote for you though.
Idiots?


No, ignorant? Maybe
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33182 on: December 15, 2019, 03:46:20 pm »
Idiots?


No, ignorant? Maybe

I know where we went wrong. Rather than call Leavers fucking idiots in our own accents, if we put on a posh voice and called them fucking idiots and to stop Brexit, they'd listen.
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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33183 on: December 15, 2019, 04:15:02 pm »
It'll be interesting how hard line the new batch of Tory MPs are. May be some surprises in there.

I’m hoping against hope that Johnson at heart isn’t as extreme right wing as the ERG cohort that surrounds him.  I guess this will become clear through January.

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33184 on: December 15, 2019, 04:22:33 pm »
I heard he had become closer to Starmer but today he was in pure bunker mode. Burgeon, Long-Bailey, Butler and Raynor his choices.

Fuck off.
dawn butler as leader :lmao just say you want someone thick who the unions and Milne and co can control easily and won’t make their lives difficult

Offline rob1966

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33185 on: December 15, 2019, 05:10:13 pm »
Blyth - Lower than average wages, higher than average unemployment, worst cuts to any Police force in 2018, voted for Brexit and will be badly affected by it, 47 migrants out of a population of 300,000 and they voted a TORY MP in :butt :butt

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50782411
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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33186 on: December 15, 2019, 05:11:25 pm »
I’m hoping against hope that Johnson at heart isn’t as extreme right wing as the ERG cohort that surrounds him.  I guess this will become clear through January.

I don’t think he will be as bad as people worry about because if his time as mayor is anything to go by, he doesn’t do a lot. The things he’s best known for like the Olympics and Bikes were under way before he became mayor and his other ideas like the airport and garden bridge were just stupid and didn’t go anywhere (but did waste a fair bit of money). But the most important lesson to learn I from his career is that he will say and do whatever the electorate want to hear, and most of them are not hard right nutters.
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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33187 on: December 15, 2019, 05:33:08 pm »
I don’t think he will be as bad as people worry about because if his time as mayor is anything to go by, he doesn’t do a lot. The things he’s best known for like the Olympics and Bikes were under way before he became mayor and his other ideas like the airport and garden bridge were just stupid and didn’t go anywhere (but did waste a fair bit of money). But the most important lesson to learn I from his career is that he will say and do whatever the electorate want to hear, and most of them are not hard right nutters.
Well the EU are going to have to help him sell a soft brexit as a breakway deal victory.
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« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 05:37:07 pm by oldfordie »
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Offline rob1966

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33188 on: December 15, 2019, 05:47:37 pm »
I don’t think he will be as bad as people worry about because if his time as mayor is anything to go by, he doesn’t do a lot. The things he’s best known for like the Olympics and Bikes were under way before he became mayor and his other ideas like the airport and garden bridge were just stupid and didn’t go anywhere (but did waste a fair bit of money). But the most important lesson to learn I from his career is that he will say and do whatever the electorate want to hear, and most of them are not hard right nutters.

Its not him I worry about, its vile bastards like Gove, Mogg and Patel who are the danger.
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Offline west_london_red

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33189 on: December 15, 2019, 06:13:11 pm »
Well the EU are going to have to help him sell a soft brexit as a breakway deal victory.
No extension of 2yrs just a implementation period of 2yrs.
Tried to PM you to say thanks for last nights post,  :) no pms which is fine.

I should have caveated my post to begin with ‘Other then Brexit....’, I kind of assumed it was taken as given on Brexit and it will be done on 31/01/20 (thankfully I will be on holiday then!), but as he’s not so dependent on the ERG he might be able to soften things slightly with the EU. But on the flip side, obviously now he cant blame Parliament for frustrating the will of the people and all that so will have to plow on with no excuses when it come to Brexit.

And no worries, I actually forgot I had turned messages off (was after someone sent a message with some strong language- not aimed at me- but the messages used to be forwarded to my email, which was my work one so just stopped them)
Thinking is overrated.
The mind is a tool, it's not meant to be used that much.
Rest, love, observe. Laugh.

Offline Mutton Geoff

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Re: Brexit-i-a-poos! 10 Predications
« Reply #33190 on: December 15, 2019, 06:45:44 pm »
I heard he had become closer to Starmer but today he was in pure bunker mode. Burgeon, Long-Bailey, Butler and Raynor his choices.

Fuck off.
does he need to check with you before he expresses his own opinion
A world were Liars and Hypocrites are accepted and rewarded and honest people are derided!
Who voted in this lying corrupt bastard anyway