Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1435392 times)

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,312
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33000 on: November 2, 2019, 09:30:44 am »
It was on yesterday and last night. You know, when it was 'news'.


I didn’t catch the 10 pm news last night so will take your word for it.  Didn’t note mention of it at 6pm yesterday though may have missed it.

Offline PaulF

  • https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/paulfelce
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,577
  • Nothing feels as good as fat tastes.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33001 on: November 2, 2019, 10:05:46 am »
Thats like saying  “Yes, the company ran by Johnson might well be suspected of massive fraud and financial improprieties.. but it’s nothing to do with him”. ;D

He’s culpable as the figurehead.. if anything comes of it that is.

(Edit: quoted wrong person!)
I doubt the findings will affect the electorate much. If you've seen the other stories about him and still vote for him, then a bit of illegal campaigning isn't going to change your vote. It's not like he's been caught hanging out with a guy that likes to shove his knob in to dead pigs.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,225
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33002 on: November 2, 2019, 10:25:42 am »
Thats like saying  “Yes, the company ran by Johnson might well be suspected of massive fraud and financial improprieties.. but it’s nothing to do with him”. ;D

He’s culpable as the figurehead.. if anything comes of it that is.

(Edit: quoted wrong person!)

What massive fraud? It’s most likely another spending technicality like the previous one which was overturned on appeal.

Lucas’s comment was wrong - neither Johnson nor Cummings have personally been referred.

It won’t be pursued during the election. It’s not going to change any votes and Johnson/Cummings won’t face any charges. Get over it and move on.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,727
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33003 on: November 2, 2019, 11:29:38 am »
I saw it on the news last night (can't remember if it was BBC or Sky) and I'm pretty sure a figure of over £600.000 was mentioned.
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

  • Missing an asterisk - no, wait sorry, that's his rusty starfish..... RAWK Apple fanboy. Hedley Lamarr's bestest mate. Has done nothing incredible ever.
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 73,206
  • Asterisks baby!
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33004 on: November 2, 2019, 11:34:14 am »
I saw it on the news last night (can't remember if it was BBC or Sky) and I'm pretty sure a figure of over £600.000 was mentioned.

£600 doesn't sound too serious
I love you all. Even Mancs x

Online jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,475
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33005 on: November 2, 2019, 11:45:27 am »
If it's the same one, then it's meant to be coming out via a US report which will touch on both referendum 2016 and general election 2017 as part of Russia's attempts to influence elections around the world. Sort of waiting on the US Senate to release it.

What is the balance in the Senate House at the moment? My fear would be if there are more Republicans they would hold the report back until after the election.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,727
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33006 on: November 2, 2019, 11:55:59 am »
£600 doesn't sound too serious
That was supposed to be a comma not a full stop - my phone is small. So six hundred thousand pounds.
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33007 on: November 2, 2019, 12:33:08 pm »
What is the balance in the Senate House at the moment? My fear would be if there are more Republicans they would hold the report back until after the election.

It's bipartisan - the second report they've done into Russian actions, this time on social media, was released start of last month - although I can't find where I read that another one is due out relatively soon. May be loads redacted from it though if Johnson's sitting on it our side.
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline PaulF

  • https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/paulfelce
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,577
  • Nothing feels as good as fat tastes.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33008 on: November 2, 2019, 01:58:30 pm »
That was supposed to be a comma not a full stop - my phone is small. So six hundred thousand pounds.
.
I think Andy's phone was too small for the smiley he needed.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline Jiminy Cricket

  • Batshit fucker and Chief Yuletide Porcine Voyeur
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 9,895
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33009 on: November 2, 2019, 02:03:07 pm »
That was supposed to be a comma not a full stop - my phone is small. So six hundred thousand pounds.
I don't care how miniaturised your phone is - that's an obscene amount of money to spend on a mobile.
would rather have a wank wearing a barb wire glove
If you're chasing thrills, try a bit of auto-asphyxiation with a poppers-soaked orange in your gob.

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,727
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33010 on: November 2, 2019, 02:15:11 pm »
I don't care how miniaturised your phone is - that's an obscene amount of money to spend on a mobile.
Yeah but it's really small. So small you can't even see it - and it's got a cover. Last time I go to C ex.
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,727
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33011 on: November 2, 2019, 02:24:28 pm »
.
I think Andy's phone was too small for the smiley he needed.
Look smart arse two decimal point zeroes would have been six hundred pounds, but as I put three we are talking about a potential senior moment on Andy's behalf. And I should know, I have some expertise in this field. :-\
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33012 on: November 3, 2019, 08:18:07 am »
What is the balance in the Senate House at the moment? My fear would be if there are more Republicans they would hold the report back until after the election.

Went back a bit. If it's of interest, this is the first (and light touch) overview of Brexit the Dem minority did back in January 2018. https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FinalRR.pdf

(We're at page 116 in the pdf.)

Obvious thing with Johnson is his relationship with oligarchs and the money they funnel into Britain (Reuters), although I'd be amazed if it was actually spelled out by a cross-party committee report. And then the whole Leave stuff, including how Russia Today pushed, and continues to push, Brexit messages from both left and right of our politics.
« Last Edit: November 3, 2019, 08:32:12 am by Zeb »
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Online jillcwhomever

  • Finding Brian hard to swallow. Definitely not Paula Nancy MIllstone Jennings of 37 Wasp Villas, Greenbridge, Essex, GB10 1LL. Or maybe. Who knows.....Finds it hard to choose between Jürgen's wurst and Fat Sam's sausage.
  • Lead Matchday Commentator
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 76,475
  • "I'm surprised they didn't charge me rent"
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33013 on: November 3, 2019, 04:14:59 pm »
Went back a bit. If it's of interest, this is the first (and light touch) overview of Brexit the Dem minority did back in January 2018. https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/FinalRR.pdf

(We're at page 116 in the pdf.)

Obvious thing with Johnson is his relationship with oligarchs and the money they funnel into Britain (Reuters), although I'd be amazed if it was actually spelled out by a cross-party committee report. And then the whole Leave stuff, including how Russia Today pushed, and continues to push, Brexit messages from both left and right of our politics.

That's interesting indeed thanks for that Zeb.
"He's trying to get right away from football. I believe he went to Everton"

Offline jymbojetset

  • Anny Roader
  • ****
  • Posts: 299
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33014 on: November 4, 2019, 01:35:47 pm »
Nothing to see here!

Downing stree blocks report on Russian interference in EU referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/04/no-10-blocks-russia-eu-referendum-report-until-after-election

Offline Jshooters

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,758
  • Occasionally inspirational
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33015 on: November 4, 2019, 01:43:10 pm »
New countdown clock in Tory HQ apparently.  Not sure that having a constant reminder of their inability to follow through with promises will be great for morale though...
Believer

Offline TSC

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 25,312
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33016 on: November 4, 2019, 01:43:16 pm »

Online Red-Soldier

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,782
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33017 on: November 4, 2019, 01:51:01 pm »
Nothing to see here!

Downing stree blocks report on Russian interference in EU referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/04/no-10-blocks-russia-eu-referendum-report-until-after-election

Well knock me down with a feather!

Offline ShakaHislop

  • Shocktrooper of the Vinny Cable Nasties
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,790
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33018 on: November 4, 2019, 02:01:21 pm »
Quote
We would not expect economic activity to be boosted by the approval of the government’s proposed Brexit deal. We estimate that, in the long run, the economy would be 3½ per cent smaller with the deal compared to continued EU membership.

Quote
The economy is estimated to be 2½ per cent smaller now than it would otherwise have been as a result of the 2016 Brexit vote.

Quote
This Review provides an assessment of the government’s new proposed free trade agreement with the European Union (pp. F34–7). Compared to our main-case forecast, uncertainty would be lifted but customs and regulatory barriers would hinder goods and services trade with the continent, leaving all regions of the United Kingdom worse off than they would be if the UK stayed in the EU

https://www.niesr.ac.uk/media/niesr-press-release-uk-economy-35-cent-smaller-under-latest-brexit-deal-13975

Quote
GDP will be 3½ per cent smaller each year in perpetuity than it would have been had the UK stayed an EU member. This is roughly equivalent to losing the annual output of Wales. Second, the estimated loss of GDP so far is because businesses generally have not been investing, whereas the loss in the future will because certain types of economic activity in the UK will be no longer profitable.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/002795011925000103

Offline rafathegaffa83

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 41,917
  • Dutch Class
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33019 on: November 4, 2019, 03:59:39 pm »

Offline ShakaHislop

  • Shocktrooper of the Vinny Cable Nasties
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,790
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33020 on: November 4, 2019, 09:35:36 pm »
Juncker: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson told 'so many lies' in EU referendum campaign

Quote
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson told “so many lies” during the EU referendum campaign, the outgoing president of the European commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, has said.

In a valedictory interview with the German magazine Der Spiegel, Juncker voiced regret he had not countered the claims of the leave campaign in 2016. The commission decided not to get involved on the advice of David Cameron, who feared interventions from Brussels would backfire.

Juncker said that had been a big mistake, adding: “So many lies were told, including by current prime minister, Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, that there needed to be a voice to counter them.”

Juncker also pointed the blame for the 2016 result at pro-EU politicians, specifically “my friend” Tony Blair. He said the British, including the former Labour leader, had always seen the EU as an economic project and had shunned political union. “If you stick to that narrative for over 40 years, it should not come as a surprise when people remember it during the referendum.”

The veteran Luxembourg politician, who became commission president in 2014, said he had been sceptical remain would win. Juncker claimed he had told Cameron in 2014: “You are going to lose it.”

Juncker said he had become “an ideological target for Brexiters” and added it was important not to give Europeans “the false impression” that the EU was on the way to becoming a single state: “Even highly enthusiastic Europeans are against our union becoming a European melting pot.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/04/juncker-boris-johnson-told-so-many-lies-in-eu-referendum-campaign

Offline PaulF

  • https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/paulfelce
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 21,577
  • Nothing feels as good as fat tastes.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33021 on: November 5, 2019, 08:18:20 am »
Do leavers sympathise with Boris for having his exit blocked? Do they see his blaming the other parties as just avoiding responsibility ( I don't mix with many people so haven't been able to gauge for myself).  Obvious to us he'd blame them, without anyone questioning why he'd make a promise like that knowing he didn't have a majority, and even if he did there would be mps of his party that would vote against him.
I'm imagining his supporters would retort that he got a deal when everyone said he couldn't. Swiftly glossing over the fact we assumed he meant a better deal. Obviously he could get a worse deal.  Boils my piss it does.
"All the lads have been talking about is walking out in front of the Kop, with 40,000 singing 'You'll Never Walk Alone'," Collins told BBC Radio Solent. "All the money in the world couldn't buy that feeling," he added.

Offline ShakaHislop

  • Shocktrooper of the Vinny Cable Nasties
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 7,790
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33022 on: November 5, 2019, 09:50:13 am »
Do leavers sympathise with Boris for having his exit blocked? Do they see his blaming the other parties as just avoiding responsibility ( I don't mix with many people so haven't been able to gauge for myself).  Obvious to us he'd blame them, without anyone questioning why he'd make a promise like that knowing he didn't have a majority, and even if he did there would be mps of his party that would vote against him.
I'm imagining his supporters would retort that he got a deal when everyone said he couldn't. Swiftly glossing over the fact we assumed he meant a better deal. Obviously he could get a worse deal.  Boils my piss it does.

Yes, it appears.

Quote
MPs in Parliament are held most responsible for Britain not leaving the EU this month (50%), compared to 30% and 21% saying Jeremy Corbyn and Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson respectively.

Conservative supporters and those disappointed that the UK is not leaving the EU this month are less likely to blame Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson for the failure to leave than MPs in Parliament generally. 4% of Conservatives blame Johnson compared with 54% that blame MPs in Parliament whilst 9% of those that think the UK not leaving this month is a bad thing blame Johnson compared with 56% that blame MPs.

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/conservatives-strengthen-position-latest-ipsos-mori-political-monitor

And see the "die in a ditch" question in this

Hmm

If only I could find some common themes in this data..



Offline Nobby Reserve

  • Onanistic Charades Champion Of Roundabouts. Euphemistic Gerbil Starver.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 11,984
  • Do you wanna build a snowman?
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33023 on: November 5, 2019, 11:26:59 am »
Nothing to see here!

Downing stree blocks report on Russian interference in EU referendum.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/04/no-10-blocks-russia-eu-referendum-report-until-after-election


It's a scandal, but the compliant right-wing media has barely a mention of this.

We can but hope that a patriotic whistle-blower leaks the report.

We already know that corrupt Russian plutocrats with links to Putin have paid handsome cash 'donations' to buy influence with prominent Tory bigwigs.

And the funding of the Leave campaign has massive question marks over the origins of the donations, especially those made via diminutive shitstain Banks.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

Offline lobsterboy

  • Sworn enemy of crayfishgirl. Likes to draw spunking cocks n balls at sunday school
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,852
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33024 on: November 5, 2019, 02:16:00 pm »

It's a scandal, but the compliant right-wing media has barely a mention of this.

We can but hope that a patriotic whistle-blower leaks the report.

We already know that corrupt Russian plutocrats with links to Putin have paid handsome cash 'donations' to buy influence with prominent Tory bigwigs.

And the funding of the Leave campaign has massive question marks over the origins of the donations, especially those made via diminutive shitstain Banks.

Plenty of the same money will have found its way into those media moguls pockets as well.
Handy for Putin having all these oligarchs ensconced in the west and able to dish out all this money to help his cause.
Its almost like the money all really belongs to him..

Offline Skeeve

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,785
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33025 on: November 5, 2019, 03:41:33 pm »
It is.

But we've ended up where we've ended up, people voted for Brexit and in the 3 years in between its looking now like people are largely now fed up of it and are fatigued enough to just want it done for the most part.

So in light of that, I dont think Labour's stance to allow the people the final say on a deal vs remaining is really anything beyond the pale. Certainly no reason not to vote for them, it seems fair and it seems prudent (to me).

The problem is that even this wishy washy stance has basically been forced onto the labour leadership, despite around 80% of labour voters being in favour of remain, it certainly doesn't help matters that some labour spokespeople were even using the same talking point as the tories after the 2017 election i.e. 80% of people who voted, had voted for leave parties.


Offline Skeeve

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,785
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33026 on: November 5, 2019, 03:55:38 pm »
If the Tories win a majority then am afraid we are f... even if Corbyn +co go.
The damage will be done, leaving the EU with a nutty hard right Tory party. less talented MPs to hold them to account.

There is a fair argument to be made that we are already fucked due to the number of companies that have or are in the process of getting out of the UK, even if we somehow come back from the brink, we won't see most of them returning for a long time.

Beyond that, any form of brexit is going to inflict severe harm on the country, so while boris and his gang of fuckwits will trash the country, at least they might end up taking the blame, whereas drifting along into brexit with labour's imaginary brexit for jobs nonsense would harm the country almost as much in the short term and in the long run would see labour blamed for brexit rather than the bloody tories who would have all reaped their profits from it anyway.

Offline Skeeve

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 15,785
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33027 on: November 5, 2019, 04:07:16 pm »
Let this sink in: The leader of Labour still hasn't formed a clear opinion on the most important political issue in decades.

That isn't the problem, he has clearly shown where his feelings lie on the subject by both his words and actions over the last few years, he simply doesn't want to admit to being a leaver when 80% of his party are in favour of remain.

to be honest, I'd have more respect for him if he just admitted that, but would work towards the wishes of his party over his own personal feelings on the matter.

Offline OneTouchFooty

  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,712
  • We all Live in a Red and White Kop
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33028 on: November 5, 2019, 05:46:07 pm »
Let this sink in: The leader of Labour still hasn't formed a clear opinion on the most important political issue in decades.

Are people still pretending they don’t understand Labour’s Brexit policy?

Offline TheShanklyGates

  • Firmly in the "shake it all about" camp
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,776
  • Outside The Shankly Gates...
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33029 on: November 5, 2019, 05:49:24 pm »
Are people still pretending they don’t understand Labour’s Brexit policy?

Will they back Leave or Remain? Until they can answer that question I don't know how anyone can claim to understand Labour's Brexit policy.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline eddymunster

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,926
  • JFT96
Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33030 on: November 5, 2019, 05:50:58 pm »
Will they back Leave or Remain? Until they can answer that question I don't know how anyone can claim to understand Labour's Brexit policy.

That quote also doesn’t refer to labours policy, It refers specifically to jeremy’s.
Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed."

Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,727
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33031 on: November 5, 2019, 05:53:16 pm »
Are people still pretending they don’t understand Labour’s Brexit policy?
Apparently. I actually think at this point in time Labour's Brexit plan is the most sensible and prudent one on offer. Anyone of any persuasion could justify voting for it, and it is also the most morally defensible as the public get the final say.
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Online filopastry

  • seldom posts but often delivers
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,747
  • Let me tell you a story.........
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33032 on: November 5, 2019, 06:01:57 pm »
Apparently. I actually think at this point in time Labour's Brexit plan is the most sensible and prudent one on offer. Anyone of any persuasion could justify voting for it, and it is also the most morally defensible as the public get the final say.

It still has 2 big issues as an actual election manifesto pledge though.

1. Maybe I have missed it, but I still haven't seen any clear guidance as to what the broad outline of Labour deal would look like (have Labour even decided this themselves yet?).

2. As others have said still no idea as to Labour's position in a second referendum of their deal v Remain, if Labour come out for their deal and the Tories push for Labour's Brexit on the basis that at least we will be out and they will rip it up when they get into power then I would say there is limited chance of Remain winning a second ref anyway.

Personally I don't care less about getting a second ref if it is likely something that can't be won by Remain, it was always a means to an end for me.

Offline Zeb

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 18,571
  • Justice.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33033 on: November 5, 2019, 06:06:55 pm »
Part which niggles at me is the idea of a Labour government subcontracting to a Labour party special conference. All a bit 'NEC tries to run the country' which Labour PMs have tried to avoid in the past. I also am sceptical Labour will hold a referendum on a renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration if such a special conference approves it.

-----

No surprises but, yeah.

Quote
Downing Street has pulled an offer to let MPs vote on a fresh Brexit delay in the next stage of negotiations to stop a no-deal divorce at the end of 2020.

Prime Minister Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson's spokesman confirmed on Tuesday the government was going back on the pledge it made in late October.

That was offered by Justice Secretary Robert Buckland in a last-ditch bid to win support for the Brexit deal to allay concerns about talks on the future relationship.

....

Mr Johnson's spokesman confirmed the day before parliament shuts down before the 12 December general election no such vote would go ahead.

He said it was because the government was adamant it will have reached a trade deal by then.

"There will be a trade deal by the end of 2020," he added.

Mr Gauke said he had been made a "clear promise".

"Looks like the Conservative message is: 'We'll be out on WTO [World Trade Organisation] terms by 2021'. I have to say - that is reckless."

Sky News
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline eddymunster

  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,926
  • JFT96
Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33034 on: November 5, 2019, 06:08:56 pm »
Apparently. I actually think at this point in time Labour's Brexit plan is the most sensible and prudent one on offer. Anyone of any persuasion could justify voting for it, and it is also the most morally defensible as the public get the final say.

The most morally justifiable is surely remain?

Illegally campaigned, advisory referendum, won by the narrowest of margins, 3 years on, no defined benefits of leaving and every brexit option clearly expected to damage economy and lead to more joblessness, homelessness and probable rise in mortality rate.

I’m sorry I just don’t know how any morally responsible politician can advocate anything other than remain.
« Last Edit: November 5, 2019, 06:10:54 pm by eddymunster »
Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed."

Offline Alan_X

  • WUM. 'twatito' - The Cat Herding Firm But Fair Voice Of Reason (Except when he's got a plank up his arse). Gimme some skin, priest! Has a general dislike for Elijah Wood. Clearly cannot fill even a thong! RAWK Resident Muppet. Has a crush o
  • RAWK Staff
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 53,225
  • Come on you fucking red men!!!
  • Super Title: This is super!
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33035 on: November 5, 2019, 06:11:11 pm »
Apparently. I actually think at this point in time Labour's Brexit plan is the most sensible and prudent one on offer. Anyone of any persuasion could justify voting for it, and it is also the most morally defensible as the public get the final say.

If you're a Leaver you vote Tory or Brexit Party.

If you're for Remain why would you trust Labour? Corbyn wants Brexit and will campaign to Leave.

If you don't care either way why would you vote for prolonging the agony?

There's no guarantee that the EU will grant another extension or renegotiate a deal.
Sid Lowe (@sidlowe)
09/03/2011 08:04
Give a man a mask and he will tell the truth, Give a man a user name and he will act like a total twat.
Its all about winning shiny things.

Online filopastry

  • seldom posts but often delivers
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 14,747
  • Let me tell you a story.........
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33036 on: November 5, 2019, 06:12:42 pm »
If you're a Leaver you vote Tory or Brexit Party.

If you're for Remain why would you trust Labour? Corbyn wants Brexit and will campaign to Leave.

If you don't care either way why would you vote for prolonging the agony?

There's no guarantee that the EU will grant another extension or renegotiate a deal.

Ireland certainly don't seem to be keen on any kind of renegotiation from their recent comments.


Offline Dr. Beaker

  • Veo, to his mates. Shares 50% of his DNA with a banana. Would dearly love to strangle Frankengoose. Lo! Be he not ye Messiah, verily be he a child of questionable conduct in the eyes of Ye Holy Border Guards.
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 16,727
  • I... think I am, therefore...I....maybe.
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33037 on: November 5, 2019, 06:25:59 pm »
It still has 2 big issues as an actual election manifesto pledge though.

1. Maybe I have missed it, but I still haven't seen any clear guidance as to what the broad outline of Labour deal would look like (have Labour even decided this themselves yet?).

2. As others have said still no idea as to Labour's position in a second referendum of their deal v Remain, if Labour come out for their deal and the Tories push for Labour's Brexit on the basis that at least we will be out and they will rip it up when they get into power then I would say there is limited chance of Remain winning a second ref anyway.

Personally I don't care less about getting a second ref if it is likely something that can't be won by Remain, it was always a means to an end for me.
1 is basically a load of aspirational jobs jobs jobs mumbo jumbo - that's OK, you don't need to play to Marquess of Queensbury rules when your fighting Conor McGregor.

2 How can you say whether you back the deal until you know what it is. You don't go out to buy a car at all costs do you, you try and get the best deal you can and then decide if it's acceptable.

It's a dirty game and I hope I'm right in thinking Labour are playing a very dirty game because there is plenty of leeway, as I see it, for getting off the Brexit hook. I'm not saying this is necessarily Corbo's game, but I'd be surprised if the likes of Starmer, Benn etc don't have it in the back of their minds.
NAKED BOOBERY

Rile-Me costed L. Nee-Naw "The Child" Torrence the first jack the hat-trick since Eon Rush vs Accursed Toffos, many moons passed. Nee-Naw he could have done a concreted his palace in the pantyhose off the LibPole Gods...was not was for the invented intervention of Rile-Me whistler.

Offline TheShanklyGates

  • Firmly in the "shake it all about" camp
  • RAWK Supporter
  • Legacy Fan
  • ******
  • Posts: 26,776
  • Outside The Shankly Gates...
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33038 on: November 5, 2019, 06:32:52 pm »
2 How can you say whether you back the deal until you know what it is. You don't go out to buy a car at all costs do you, you try and get the best deal you can and then decide if it's acceptable.

It's a ludicrous position that Labour are putting themselves in though. The only way Corbyn ends up backing Remain is if they either can't secure a new agreement or if they admit that their own deal is shit. He's not going to spend months negotiating and then turn around and say his efforts were worthless.
I've just wiped the sticky residue from my bellend onto the television screen. Taste it Leo. You deserve it.
I would honestly let Wijnaldum jizz in my face right now

Offline Crumble

  • It's rhyming slang
  • Kopite
  • *****
  • Posts: 792
Re: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"
« Reply #33039 on: November 5, 2019, 06:38:23 pm »
It's a ludicrous position that Labour are putting themselves in though. The only way Corbyn ends up backing Remain is if they either can't secure a new agreement or if they admit that their own deal is shit. He's not going to spend months negotiating and then turn around and say his efforts were worthless.

If it came to it, I reckon 75% of the Labour party would argue for Remain in the referendum, the other 25% would argue for Brexit. Mr Corbyn would probably be in the 25%, "respecting the will of the people in the 2016 referendum" and all that.