Author Topic: Alien: Covenant  (Read 13288 times)

Offline Andy @ Allerton!

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #80 on: May 14, 2017, 08:04:44 am »
Prometheus was better. A lot of the 'shocks' weren't and a lot of the 'surprises' were obvious.

Spoiler
To be fair, it's a horror and we've veered into mad scientist territory here.....
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Offline So… Howard Philips

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #81 on: May 14, 2017, 09:22:34 pm »
Haven't seen this yet but don't get some of the hate for Prometheus.

Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #82 on: May 14, 2017, 10:16:42 pm »
Haven't seen this yet but don't get some of the hate for Prometheus.
It's mainly because it's supposedly the origin story of the entire Alien saga, and is shit.
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Offline El Lobo

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2017, 05:12:46 pm »
Haven't seen this yet but don't get some of the hate for Prometheus.

Its a terrible movie mate.
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Offline Ultimate Bromance

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #84 on: May 16, 2017, 03:26:15 pm »
Saw it tonight, honestly didn't care for it all. If it was it's own thing I'd probably have enjoyed it a bit more, but the core conflict, or whatever you want to call it, at the heart of the movie simply isn't what I want from an Alien movie. Was surprised to see people saying they enjoyed Prometheus more, but having now seen Covenant, I can sort of understand. They're both terrible for the franchise, but at least Prometheus could sort of stand-alone, whereas Covenant clearly links to the original movie.

Didn't care about the story or the themes raised and I didn't care about any of the characters for any reason other than 'I remember him/her from that show/movie'. It's probably not a bad movie, but I found it incredibly disappointing.

Basically
Spoiler
I do not give a shit at all about the idea of an A.I, resentful of his creator for making him without the ability to create life, subsequently engineering the perfect species, which turn out to be the xenomorphs, and turning them loose on the universe. Couldn't give even the most casual of fucks about any of it.
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Offline Red Beret

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #85 on: May 16, 2017, 06:55:13 pm »
Sharing because, well, reasons...

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Offline fudge

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #86 on: May 18, 2017, 07:04:01 pm »
Saw it and enjoyed it immensely. Honestly think people are expecting too much if they're expecting it to be a classic like the first two but think it fits in well into the series.

Spoiler
Only thing I didn't notice was what was it gave David away to Daniels at the end
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Offline Casablancas

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #87 on: May 18, 2017, 10:01:55 pm »
Saw it and enjoyed it immensely. Honestly think people are expecting too much if they're expecting it to be a classic like the first two but think it fits in well into the series.

Spoiler
Only thing I didn't notice was what was it gave David away to Daniels at the end
[close]

Spoiler
There was no reaction from him about her building the log cabin, so she knew he had no idea about it
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Offline Schmidt

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #88 on: May 18, 2017, 11:27:11 pm »
Thought it was terrible, and I say that as someone who generally goes into these things not expecting much. The whole film was filled with supposedly very intelligent people doing incredibly stupid things, the aliens were dumbed down beasts that just dove at everyone without thought, the lore just gets worse the more they reveal and the pacing was all off, the end felt like there should've been another 20 minutes or so to go, also none of the characters were memorable or even likeable. With these sorts of films you expect the characters to learn about the aliens, to understand more and more about them and eventually use that knowledge to overcome the threat, but it was like the makers thought people would be sick of that so they just threw the characters at the creatures one at a time to show off some violent deaths, with nobody learning anything. The skinny baby aliens walking around just looked absurd too.

Spoiler
The twist was ridiculous, it was obvious the moment David started cutting his hair what would happen, and even more obvious when we saw that Walter could repair himself midway through the film, only for Daniels to happily putting staples in David's injuries later on without realising that he probably shouldn't need them.
[close]

Offline Beav

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #89 on: May 19, 2017, 06:59:04 pm »
Saw it and enjoyed it immensely. Honestly think people are expecting too much if they're expecting it to be a classic like the first two but think it fits in well into the series.

Spoiler
Only thing I didn't notice was what was it gave David away to Daniels at the end
[close]

I dont think its a case of letting expectations spoil whats on screen, for me at least I went in with barely any expectations at all after loathing Prometheus, I was completely open to whatever Ridley and co. had to offer.

Sadly, I didnt like it, and the more I think about it the more it begins to actively grate on me as a film, much like Prometheus did. There are good moments in it, some interesting things they are trying to explore and trying bold, weird stuff in films should always be celebrated, but for me those moments dont overall seem to serve the film theyre in, or the "franchise" as a whole.

Ill spoiler it because itll be giving away plot spoilers, but if youve not seen it, everything goes exactly where you expect it to go.
Spoiler
The entire thing seems to switch from styles of film and for me at least it felt jarring and all over the place. Starting with a slick white room with David and Mr Weyland, philosophising about creators and the creations and power and subservience and surpassing your creator and such, then the first solid meat of the film is an Alien retread with a crew, a planet, some mysterious creature fucking shit up, then to a full on Prometheus sequel where all of the questions everyone was saying would be explained in the next film are literally dropped out of a fucking spaceship, we get some more talk about creators and vision and about the humanity of the androids and David does some fingering. Then because of some absurdly dumb decisions we get the xenomorph we know and fear, because David murdered Shaw offscreen (mad), and then, as I took it anyway, used her reproductive system to help create the xenomorphs with the facehugger/egg system, and then we're back to a condensed Alien horror/thriller.

Look, I dont give a fuck about where the Aliens come from. Its not important. And the idea that we created an android, that created the xenomorphs because he had a god complex, that then somehow fuck up some engineer and crash on LV-426, which then fucks up the crew of the first Alien film is worse than no explanation. People often complain that new films retroactively harm existing ones in a franchise, and to be honest a lot of it is bollocks. But here, I genuinely feel that going back to Alien is made worse because of these films. By offering this mad scientist explanation to how the xenomorphs are around, you rob the original of its mystery. No longer is it just a terrifying, perfect creature that we were just unlucky enough to stumble across, thinking "oh god, what the fuck else is out there", its just that thing Dave made because he had too much time on his hands.

Not everything needs explaining. You dont have to do a prequel about Jaws. We dont have to get the backstory to Independence Day's aliens. Having a 3 film explanation of how the creatures in Tremors were created doesnt make anything better. While certainly not as bad, this is in the same vein as the Hobbit or Star Wars prequels, robbing the mystique of the originals by telling poor, clunky stories to try and close a loop on everything in the original, so its all connected. Alien didnt need anything connecting.

But while Im rambling about explaining, at least try and explain the film you made before this. Essentially, the whole of Prometheus can be binned off. We dont need any of it, and they sure as shit dont care about giving you any answers to it. "I wonder what theyll find" "I wonder why the engineers wanted to kill us" "what were those xenomorph carvings?" we'll never know, because this film doesnt care to explain it. We get a tiny flash back of David dropping a payload of goo onto them, and they all die (why, i dont know, because again the black goo is having different effects all the time) so thats that.

I just didnt like it at all. Maybe these just arent for me, maybe theres really only two stories you could do with this and they got it spot on in both goes and thats it.

For the sake of balance, I liked the look of it all, besides the cgi aliens which I thought all looked awful. The goldenly lit caverns David had were gorgeous, and while it all went on too long I think it is trying to explore something interesting in those sections, before it then goes off again.
The shower scene was good, but spoilt in the fucking trailers so it was robbed of all power.
James Franco being hired to die immediately was hilarious. Didnt watch any of the teaser stuff so didnt even know it was him until the video Daniels watched.
"Ill do the fingering" caused genuine sniggers in my showing, of which I was part of.
The "mad god complex android" stuff is actually pretty good at times, it just has no place in this franchise when it starts going into creating the entire thing territory.
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Offline proudred

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #90 on: May 19, 2017, 07:26:46 pm »
Liked it good movie.

Offline Red Beret

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #91 on: May 19, 2017, 10:09:30 pm »
I notice that cinemasins haven't done Rogue One yet.  I assume they're waiting until The Last Jedi is imminent.

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Offline [new username under construction]

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #92 on: May 19, 2017, 10:55:28 pm »
I notice that cinemasins haven't done Rogue One yet.  I assume they're waiting until The Last Jedi is imminent.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/oeAc5DFh7PE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/oeAc5DFh7PE</a>

You'd think yeah......Plus I can see Rogue One being quite long!

Offline owens_2k

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #93 on: May 19, 2017, 11:49:33 pm »
It's a shame Scott caved in to fan pressure and completely changed the direction of this sequel.

Offline Another Red

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2017, 12:55:16 pm »
I originally saw Prometheus on a plane which probably didn't do it justice. It seemed a little loose in terms of the story. In hind sight, it was just not what I was expecting. I didn't even realize at the time I was watching a prequel. I enjoyed re-watching it recently so I got a bit excited about Covenant.

Covenant unfortunately rehashes some parts from other films but overall I enjoyed it. It did explain a lot that Prometheus left unexplained. Fassbender is immense once again and the supporting cast was solid. Once again the film looks amazing. Some of the surprises were predictable.

The main and most important thing the two films emphasize is this; like the original Alien film directed by Ridley Scott the droid characters are flawed like humans, which leads to our downfall. I realized how soft James Cameron made the synthetic in Aliens and similarly in T2. Ridley Scott obviously hated what they did with the droid in Aiens and decided he would set the record straight once and for all. And thank goodness he has. David is so human and inhuman at the same time it's like watching Hannibal Lecter. It also follows a similar theme to Blade Runner. Unlike the original Alien film, David takes centre stage almost as if to drive the point home. We can create things, which may very good, but they'll never be perfect. They'll always be corrupted in some way because they were made by imperfect humans. I'm rambling, hopefully I made some sense.




Offline Redcap

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #95 on: May 22, 2017, 01:23:23 pm »
Much better movie than Prometheus. Less confused about what it was, even if what it was is entirely unnecessary and kinda a waste of time. Well executed. Nice xenomorphs. Without getting into spoilers, the heart of the story, involving Fassbender, was rather lazily conceived. But all the xenomorph/body horror stuff was good fun.

Offline Flaccid Bobby Fowler

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #96 on: May 24, 2017, 02:12:53 pm »
Seen it last night and the first thing I have to report back on is my cinema, even though its new, is absolute dogshit. The screen is so blurry, dark & lacking colour it has ruined the last couple of flicks I seen - namely Rogue one and now covenant - never again.

The movie was good but so many questions were left unanswered which drives me fucking bonkers.

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #97 on: May 28, 2017, 03:58:45 am »
Just watched it.

It's an absolute mess of a film, just as much as, if not even more so, than Prometheus was. It's not its fault though. The film that have come before it, and the mistakes within them, are only amplified with this latest effort. This would have been a fairly straight forward, and more coherent film, if not for its forebearers; and even at that, it still manages to create more problems all on its own merit, thanks largely due to the fact that it was trying to fix a lot of the problems that Prometheus presented. Yet the writers, and Scott, forgot themselves in the process and contradicted a lot of details pertaining to the previous Alien films, thus rendering them now almost completely redundant in concept. Scott, you absolute twat. Hang it up for fuck sake.

Offline Haemoglobin

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #98 on: May 28, 2017, 10:00:23 am »
I haven't got round to seeing it myself yet, mainly because I pretty much expected this from most of what I'd seen of it in the trailers and such, and the fact it was intended as a close follow-on from what we got last, rather than just jettisoning that monstrosity from the escape pod and getting as far away as possible.

Prometheus already destroys the true enduring beauty of the Xenomorph's [evolutionary] concept (and the 'Space Jockey', and the wonderful mystery of the derelict ship on LV-426, and... for fuck's sake, it's simply a one-film wrecking ball) as part of its zealous mission to be an exceedingly dumb B-movie above all else, there's just no way back if you accept it as canon (I certainly don't - in recent years I've took a hard line with especially ruinous films in a great series, and can best protect their predecessors' legacy in my head & heart myself by just regarding them as impostors; they can exist somewhere, I can even take them in on occasion, but they're no more canonical or related than a BBC Comic Relief/SNL parody is).


Scott can still produce class with a strong screenplay and vigilant quality control implemented (The Martian was a return to form of sorts for him, a sci-fi product to take seriously, and with great emphasis on the sci), but dare to employ lesser writers and/or allow him to meddle with things too much with little regard for the intelligence of the audience, and you're gona get an exquisite-looking turd at the end of it, almost guaranteed.
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Offline Beav

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #99 on: May 28, 2017, 11:06:14 am »
I haven't got round to seeing it myself yet, mainly because I pretty much expected this from most of what I'd seen of it in the trailers and such, and the fact it was intended as a close follow-on from what we got last, rather than just jettisoning that monstrosity from the escape pod and getting as far away as possible.

Prometheus already destroys the true enduring beauty of the Xenomorph's [evolutionary] concept (and the 'Space Jockey', and the wonderful mystery of the derelict ship on LV-426, and... for fuck's sake, it's simply a one-film wrecking ball) as part of its zealous mission to be an exceedingly dumb B-movie above all else, there's just no way back if you accept it as canon (I certainly don't - in recent years I've took a hard line with especially ruinous films in a great series, and can best protect their predecessors' legacy in my head & heart myself by just regarding them as impostors; they can exist somewhere, I can even take them in on occasion, but they're no more canonical or related than a BBC Comic Relief/SNL parody is).


Scott can still produce class with a strong screenplay and vigilant quality control implemented (The Martian was a return to form of sorts for him, a sci-fi product to take seriously, and with great emphasis on the sci), but dare to employ lesser writers and/or allow him to meddle with things too much with little regard for the intelligence of the audience, and you're gona get an exquisite-looking turd at the end of it, almost guaranteed.

Yeah, you're going to hate Covenant. Its more of the same, only more meddling with waht the Xenomorphs are, their creation, and getting it perilously close to Alien.

Probably follow your thinking with these, stick them in the same category as the Alien Vs Predator films as daft tangents that aren't in my own head-canon.
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Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2017, 03:20:09 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/fmwyWerz5KI" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/fmwyWerz5KI</a>

Offline Redcap

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #101 on: June 1, 2017, 01:04:55 am »
Just watched it.

It's an absolute mess of a film, just as much as, if not even more so, than Prometheus was. It's not its fault though. The film that have come before it, and the mistakes within them, are only amplified with this latest effort. This would have been a fairly straight forward, and more coherent film, if not for its forebearers; and even at that, it still manages to create more problems all on its own merit, thanks largely due to the fact that it was trying to fix a lot of the problems that Prometheus presented. Yet the writers, and Scott, forgot themselves in the process and contradicted a lot of details pertaining to the previous Alien films, thus rendering them now almost completely redundant in concept. Scott, you absolute twat. Hang it up for fuck sake.

Spoiler

I disagree that Ridley Scott is trying to fix the mistakes of Prometheus. I think he's doubled down on the mistakes of Prometheus, because he's essentially turning the Alien franchise into something that's quite different than the one we know and love. The xenomorphs are still around, but they're firmly in supporting roles now. It seems like Ridley has looked at the franchise and decided the part of it that's the most interesting to him, is using it as a platform for further exploring questions more related to Blade Runner.

And there's the fundamental tension of Prometheus/Covenant: Ridley wants to expand the Alien universe into places no one cares very much about. 
[close]

In a way I'm not that annoyed about the whole thing though. Xenomorphs are still fun for what they are, and when you get down to it, the series hasn't been 'good' since 1986.

Offline CrasherKid79

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #102 on: June 5, 2017, 05:31:52 pm »
I notice that cinemasins haven't done Rogue One yet.  I assume they're waiting until The Last Jedi is imminent.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/oeAc5DFh7PE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/oeAc5DFh7PE</a>

Picking faults in a plus 30 year old masterpiece, cinemasins can get to fuck.

They should stick to ripping into the modern crap.

Offline Macphisto80

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #103 on: June 5, 2017, 06:45:19 pm »
Picking faults in a plus 30 year old masterpiece, cinemasins can get to fuck.

They should stick to ripping into the modern crap.
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Offline Schmidt

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #104 on: June 9, 2017, 04:33:59 pm »
I wish someone would do an Alien 3 remaster, the computer effects in that movie are horrendous. I've gone through the first three over the past week so I guess Resurrection is up next.

Offline CrasherKid79

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #105 on: June 9, 2017, 04:36:26 pm »
I wish someone would do an Alien 3 remaster, the computer effects in that movie are horrendous. I've gone through the first three over the past week so I guess Resurrection is up next.

Directors Cut Alien 3?

Offline Schmidt

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #106 on: June 9, 2017, 04:41:04 pm »
Directors Cut Alien 3?

That's the version I watched from the looks of it, the non-practical effects are still horrendous.

Offline CrasherKid79

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #107 on: June 9, 2017, 04:43:04 pm »
That's the version I watched from the looks of it, the non-practical effects are still horrendous.

Not watched that version yet, got it but not got round to it.

Offline Schmidt

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #108 on: June 9, 2017, 04:55:27 pm »
Not watched that version yet, got it but not got round to it.

I don't remember the original all that well as I was really young when I saw it. The special edition is decent, killing the other survivors off screen right at the start wasn't great and the final plan to take down the alien was pretty confusing to follow, but apart from that and the effects it's a good film.

Offline CrasherKid79

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #109 on: June 9, 2017, 05:05:11 pm »
I don't remember the original all that well as I was really young when I saw it. The special edition is decent, killing the other survivors off screen right at the start wasn't great and the final plan to take down the alien was pretty confusing to follow, but apart from that and the effects it's a good film.

It's an unpopular opinion but I've always liked it. As with most endings to Trilogy's it's the weakest of the three but I think it's the perfect ending to the story.

Offline Thush

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #110 on: June 9, 2017, 05:06:27 pm »
That's the version I watched from the looks of it, the non-practical effects are still horrendous.

They were all practical effects (think the only CGI was the alien head cracking at the end). It's the optical compositing of the practical puppet into the shots that was horribly done.

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #111 on: June 9, 2017, 05:12:48 pm »
It's an unpopular opinion but I've always liked it. As with most endings to Trilogy's it's the weakest of the three but I think it's the perfect ending to the story.

Alien 3 was rewritten whilst they were shooting and you can see the dangling plot points. They develop characters who are then abruptly offed before the development pay offs. The doctor probably being the most blatant.

Offline Schmidt

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #112 on: June 9, 2017, 05:24:22 pm »
They were all practical effects (think the only CGI was the alien head cracking at the end). It's the optical compositing of the practical puppet into the shots that was horribly done.

Ah right, I was wondering why the alien often had that weird glow around it as that didn't seem like a typical cg thing. Either way it's horrendous and really could do with a bit of a makeover.

Offline Schmidt

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #113 on: June 11, 2017, 02:56:52 pm »
I watched Alien: Resurrection last night, I hadn't realised how horribly cheesy it is. I don't know anything about its production but I'm guessing Joss Whedon was a bad call.

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #114 on: June 11, 2017, 05:07:30 pm »
I watched Alien: Resurrection last night, I hadn't realised how horribly cheesy it is. I don't know anything about its production but I'm guessing Joss Whedon was a bad call.

To be fair the entire production was a clusterfuck. Whedon signed on for one thing, then they kept changing stuff. I think originally there was no Ripley, and instead it was a clone of Newt with heightened strength etc, then the studio forced them to put Ripley in and a load of other stuff. His original script was only a little different from the end film, but hes said that the director didnt know what to do with it and butchered it completely. He wrote a load of different final acts too, which they kept changing, and his design of the newborn was totally different.

If you have a google around, should find loads of his quotes, he's been very open about how much of a disaster it was.
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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #115 on: June 11, 2017, 05:13:24 pm »
This is a great set of articles and blog posts about the various Alien films. Well worth having a browse on a lazy Sunday afternoon.

https://alienseries.wordpress.com/

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #116 on: June 23, 2017, 12:02:55 pm »
Although I've seen all the movies in this franchise several times over I'm not an Alien purist and appreciate nothing will ever quite live up to the original and sequel. It rarely does when it comes to sequels/prequels

This said I really enjoyed Covenant which I watched on the big screen last night.  Was a bit late for IMAX so had to slum it in 2D :)

Fassbender was absolutely superb in his duel role and I also enjoyed the supporting cast performances.  As the main protagonist, Daniels had an understated innocence which I thought was refreshing and did the character justice.  What I'm trying to say is that Ridley Scott didn't just cast the hero as another kick-ass, gun-toting hard bitch in an attempt to replicate Ripley.

Lots of shocks and jumps along the way and the CGI/Neomorphs were done superb.  The film locations really did look good too.

2 hours flew by and another film that splits the critics but I rated it.


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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #117 on: June 23, 2017, 12:27:38 pm »
Although I've seen all the movies in this franchise several times over I'm not an Alien purist and appreciate nothing will ever quite live up to the original and sequel. It rarely does when it comes to sequels/prequels

This said I really enjoyed Covenant which I watched on the big screen last night.  Was a bit late for IMAX so had to slum it in 2D :)

Fassbender was absolutely superb in his duel role and I also enjoyed the supporting cast performances.  As the main protagonist, Daniels had an understated innocence which I thought was refreshing and did the character justice.  What I'm trying to say is that Ridley Scott didn't just cast the hero as another kick-ass, gun-toting hard bitch in an attempt to replicate Ripley.

Lots of shocks and jumps along the way and the CGI/Neomorphs were done superb.  The film locations really did look good too.

2 hours flew by and another film that splits the critics but I rated it.

Personally I find with a lot these modern sequels and revamps I kind of like them on the first watch.... or at least I think I do. I so want them to be good and therefore don't think too much about it as I'm happy to see the Xenomorph/Terminator/Predator/Joker etc.

It's only on the second watch, the absolute blandness of the new characters portrayed, huge plot holes and convoluted story lines become apparent.

Then you think about what's come before and compare and see the problems:

Ripley - Elizabeth
T100 - Pops
Ledger - Leto

They just aren't enduring characters.

Therefore, I can't see myself in 10-15 years time revisiting them, unlike the original trilogy. There just seems to be no heart in them anymore.

Not just Alien .... all of them with the exception of Fury Road .... and strangely Trainspotting 2, which I thought had loads of heart.

Every other sequel dragging in a few decades after I find hollow.

« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 12:36:30 pm by CrasherKid79 »

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #118 on: July 4, 2017, 07:01:37 am »
Watched it last night and I simply refuse to accept that that's how the Xenomorphs came to be what they are.

It's completely fucked with the entire mystery that surrounded Alien all those years back, and they looked fucking daft when they stand up straight.

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Re: Alien: Covenant
« Reply #119 on: July 4, 2017, 11:12:51 am »
Watched it last night and I simply refuse to accept that that's how the Xenomorphs came to be what they are.

It's completely fucked with the entire mystery that surrounded Alien all those years back, and they looked fucking daft when they stand up straight.

I've made a decision to not watch any of these sequels anymore. Terminator 5 was the tipping point. This Alien one hasn't interested me from the casting onwards. The trailers didn't do anything for me either and I don't feel as if I'm missing anything.