Topic: Welcome to Liverpool, Fabio Carvalho

[classycarra]

He doesn't have that physicality and brute strength of Henderson though, particularly Hendo in his prime. Just something that I feel is lacking across the board with the squad. Don't want to sound all Sam Allardyce like, but that tough hard running British players do provide some good backbone for the flair players to do their thing.

I don't think Carvalho could do that, but it is a narrow interpretation I agree, and maybe there are similar profiles to Carvalho that do such a job?

True, but neither does Henderson now and he's playing the position so surely the comparison to his physical prime is moot?

Carvalho (and Elliot especially) have great stamina to be fair, and when the position (in its current form) isn't putting up great defensive performances (or stats) I just think it's worthy of a try - recognise it' unlikey though, given how unfancied by the coaches Carvalho has been lately

[Knight]

And Carra, presumably part of your point was that Trent moving inside and Konate covering the right flank asks less of the right sided 8 in transition in terms of ball winning and defensive work and more of them in terms of attacking ability, playing between the lines etc. At least in theory that seems right to me. In that sense Carvalho would seem to be better suited to the right sided 8 role than he was in our previous setup and perhaps more suited than Henderson.

[The G in Gerrard]

High praise by Jurgen today for him.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

High praise by Jurgen today for him.

Going to sound like a parrot with the Nunez thread as well, so my apologies, but what did he say ?

[Samie]

Looks like he's pissed off and he's out the door.

[Zlen]

Was never seemingly a good fit for us, though he is a very good and exciting player. Hope we manage to keep him happy or make some decent money. Shame really. If it was a more normal season…who knows.

[Clint Eastwood]

The caption for the original picture is some chain emojis too.

I get his frustration, but he’s being a bit immature. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing but this transfer was bad for all parties really. He’s a talented player and we may one day look back and think ‘we should have kept him’, but a 19 or 20 year old needs to be a special player at that age already to be given opportunities to develop here. It should serve as a reference for those who have been wondering why we aren’t signing teenagers directly from South America like Brighton are for example.

This move was way too early for him. Like I said, I think he’ll be a good player in the future if he picks his next club well.

[Eeyore]

The caption for the original picture is some chain emojis too.

I get his frustration, but he’s being a bit immature. Hindsight’s a wonderful thing but this transfer was bad for all parties really. He’s a talented player and we may one day look back and think ‘we should have kept him’, but a 19 or 20 year old needs to be a special player at that age already to be given opportunities to develop here. It should serve as a reference for those who have been wondering why we aren’t signing teenagers directly from South America like Brighton are for example.

This move was way too early for him. Like I said, I think he’ll be a good player in the future if he picks his next club well.

Was the move way too early for him or is it more a case of him not fitting with the way we want to play the game. For me, he is another Minamino or Shaqiri talented players who simply don't fit with how we want to play the game. They were both in the peak years of their careers.

[Clint Eastwood]

Both I suppose. He seemed like a square peg before he kicked a ball for us and I’m not sure many are surprised with how it panned out.

[Samie]

Do you remember how the Portugal Under 21 Manager said he fucked them off as soon as he signed for us? His charter is in question with Kloppo me thinks.

[rafathegaffa83]

Do you remember how the Portugal Under 21 Manager said he fucked them off as soon as he signed for us? His charter is in question with Kloppo me thinks.

Yeah. I'm wondering if it's a maturity issue. The social media replies seem to point to that. He seems to be certainly burning his bridges now, which seems to be poorly advised

[buttersstotch]

He didn't fit our system at all, I wonder if Klopp tried to turn him in to an #8 but he wasn't good enough defensively for that. Feels strange though, it's unlike Klopp to freeze players out, but after the League Cup game we never saw him again.

Social media seems to be a sticker though - didn't Doak make some similar comment about his ability vs Nunez and then we barely saw him in a squad again? Think it's likely a maturity thing or maybe the data/coaching is just saying Carvalho doesn't have what it takes to be elite. Shame really as the Europa League would be perfect for him.

[classycarra]

Do you remember how the Portugal Under 21 Manager said he fucked them off as soon as he signed for us? His charter is in question with Kloppo me thinks.

Yeah. I'm wondering if it's a maturity issue. The social media replies seem to point to that. He seems to be certainly burning his bridges now, which seems to be poorly advised

bit premature don't you think?

literally not said a word out of place all season, where he showed well in terms of production and effort as a teenager in a new league and team/home - even after we gave him the big pitch to sign him last season.

obviously things could be different behind the scenes, but when you hear him speak he comes across as very eloquent and mature. klopp's also spoken up on his professionalism.

seems more like he just doesn't have Klopp's trust - as seen during the run in, it's really hard to earn it during crunch periods (eg persisting with Henderson despite all indications/performances over trying someone different, and Tsimikas only getting garbage time despite decent performances, and Thiago not getting starts at the end of the season because he hadn't trained the new system)

[killer-heels]

Not sure why this is a big deal. Cost 7m, hasn’t worked out after a season, so the right thing to do is sell. Think a lot of fans have become over sentimental.

[newterp]

And we tried and did complete a transfer for him in January 2022 - but for the paperwork.

Surely we had some idea that he wasn't going to be a good fit at that point too? Or maybe once we got him here in person - the shortcomings to work in a Klopp team were more evident.

Baffling transfer in hindsight.

[stockdam]

Was the move way too early for him or is it more a case of him not fitting with the way we want to play the game. For me, he is another Minamino or Shaqiri talented players who simply don't fit with how we want to play the game. They were both in the peak years of their careers.

For me he isn’t strong enough without the ball. We play a very attacking game which means that if we lose the ball we have to immediately try to win it back or slow down the counter-attack. I just don’t think this is one of Carvalho’s strengths. He’s a player who would do well in cups against weaker teams but the EPL has loads of teams who are quick to counter.

[Dim Glas]

Not sure why this is a big deal. Cost 7m, hasn’t worked out after a season, so the right thing to do is sell. Think a lot of fans have become over sentimental.

we love the drama!

Said the same in the transfer thread, these things become a huge drama when there is no reason for them to be. Cheap signing doesn’t work out, club looks like they’ll let him get his career on track again quickly by letting him move this summer. Seems a good conclusion really.

[darragh85]

Where is he going?

I thought we rejected a bid from a champions league club according to sly sports. My guess was Napoli

[classycarra]

we love the drama!

Said the same in the transfer thread, these things become a huge drama when there is no reason for them to be. Cheap signing doesn’t work out, club looks like they’ll let him get his career on track again quickly by letting him move this summer. Seems a good conclusion really.

Yep, i think it's a positive we're letting him go now rather than doing the whole 'we'll only loan you out year on year and try to sell you at peak value' instead of considering their career first - as we've done in some unsympathetic ways with the likes of Allan Chirivella Awonyi etc.

Where is he going?

I thought we rejected a bid from a champions league club according to sly sports. My guess was Napoli

was there sporting lisbon loan chat at some point, maybe the winter window?

he's got great technique - would do well in a less physical league - maybe ajax

[rafathegaffa83]

Not sure why this is a big deal. Cost 7m, hasn’t worked out after a season, so the right thing to do is sell. Think a lot of fans have become over sentimental.

Yep. It's not a big deal. In the long-term he'll massively benefit from the time he's spent here.

[Coolie High]

We're better off sending him out on loan for a year. hes done little here to increase his value, the best bet would for him to go out on loan for another year, then we could potentially get a bigger fee, or decide to keep him depending on his development.

[RK7]

He was poorly advised on his move, should have stayed at Fulham and developed in the Premier League with them. One look at our options and it was clear he wasn't going to get those opportunities here.

[killer-heels]

I was a big fan of Carvalho and i really wanted to sign him but when you see him in the side and see our other issues, its clear he doesnt fit. On the ball his positioning was all over the place and I suspect Klopp cant be arsed with another development project. Rightly so.

[kvarmeismydad]

I was a big fan of Carvalho and i really wanted to sign him but when you see him in the side and see our other issues, its clear he doesnt fit. On the ball his positioning was all over the place and I suspect Klopp cant be arsed with another development project. Rightly so.

Agree really. I think it was West Ham or Forest where he was hooked after a lack of pressing and generally being bullied off the ball. He's technically good but lacks a bit of pace. So he's too weak to play CM and not quick enough for LM. Another point to add is I don't think he's got the mentality to wait. Him rejecting Portugal u21s because he thought he was good enough for the senior squad shows he thinks he deserves chances without really earning them. Rejecting a season with Fulham in the Premier League for us was a bad move really he would have got a lot out of 30 plus league games. He's obviously got a bit of arrogance about him but so does Curtis Jones. The difference with Curtis is he fits in as a genuine option at CM and can handle it physically. Like you say Klopp is probably looking at a project player where he might be able to improve his positioning and pressing but he can't really improve his pace or size and ultimately we don't need a player of his type. Add that he may be sulking a bit and you just pull the trigger on a loan or sale.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

I was a big fan of Carvalho and i really wanted to sign him but when you see him in the side and see our other issues, its clear he doesnt fit. On the ball his positioning was all over the place and I suspect Klopp cant be arsed with another development project. Rightly so.

I was excited when we signed him as well, but i can't say I'm too disappointed that it didn't work out. That's how it is with young unproven players. Few of them will make it, the majority of them won't.

[Knight]

Good job he was a midfield option for Klopp to list when mocking folk for saying we needed a CM last summer. I love the man but some of those press conferences have aged very badly.

[RedKenWah]

Agree really. I think it was West Ham or Forest where he was hooked after a lack of pressing and generally being bullied off the ball. He's technically good but lacks a bit of pace. So he's too weak to play CM and not quick enough for LM. Another point to add is I don't think he's got the mentality to wait. Him rejecting Portugal u21s because he thought he was good enough for the senior squad shows he thinks he deserves chances without really earning them. Rejecting a season with Fulham in the Premier League for us was a bad move really he would have got a lot out of 30 plus league games. He's obviously got a bit of arrogance about him but so does Curtis Jones. The difference with Curtis is he fits in as a genuine option at CM and can handle it physically. Like you say Klopp is probably looking at a project player where he might be able to improve his positioning and pressing but he can't really improve his pace or size and ultimately we don't need a player of his type. Add that he may be sulking a bit and you just pull the trigger on a loan or sale.

Remember that, it was Forest away in which he was poor in pressing for possession but to be fair the whole team was that day. We were blunt in attack and just lacking everywhere else.

It’s a bit of a shame how it’s panned out for the player but sometimes these things happens. I do wonder if the plan is a loan and see if he does it over a 30+ game a season run or whether it’s cut ties.

[lamonti]

High praise by Jurgen today for him.

Damne with high praise I thought.

[PhilV]

Considering what Jurgen says out loud, to media and the fact the club will not allow him to be sold but instead loaned, it seems to be they just don't think he fits in with current squad but see his long term use as firmly at the club.

Either that or they want to loan, he impresses, sell for profit, but I think they will keep him.

[Jean Girard]

Either that or they want to loan, he impresses, sell for profit, but I think they will keep him.

That seems the obvious thing to do, right?  Don't give someone a bargain just because he hasn't had a great first season. Like, the kid is really talented - the right team and conditions and he'll run riot.  He just needs games. And I guess we can't guarantee games, so a good loan makes the most sense for all concerned. 

[tubby]

Problem is that he's a 10 and there's very few clubs that play that position anymore.  I think he could've had a good go at one of the two advanced 8/10 positions in our current set up but there's obviously something about his game that Klopp doesn't fancy.

Weird transfer because it looked like we were determined to get him, but didn't know what to do with him when we did.

[classycarra]

Problem is that he's a 10 and there's very few clubs that play that position anymore.  I think he could've had a good go at one of the two advanced 8/10 positions in our current set up but there's obviously something about his game that Klopp doesn't fancy.

Weird transfer because it looked like we were determined to get him, but didn't know what to do with him when we did.

Yeah, feels a missed opportunity keeping him out in the cold in this new system - especially with the hindsight we failed to make CL.

He's played just under 4 games (in terms of minutes) in the league and scored 2 goals, and 2 games worth of domestic cup games and scored 1. So by any measure, he's massively talented and produced at a very good level for a teenager when he's been trusted. It just seems to be a signing we made without a plan for him.

I'd have liked to see him in Henderson's place in the new system during the run in, which appears pretty free from defensive responsibility. I know some have said he's easy to knock off the ball or tackle, but Henderson's been losing possession so often in this run I think it would have been worth the risk. For what it's worth, Carvalho won 8 tackles and 6 interceptions in the league (in under 4 games of minutes) whereas Henderson won 23 tackles and 21 interceptions (in almost 6 times as many minutes, 23 games worth). Henderson had 0 goals 2 assists, and Carvalho 2 goals, 0 assists

[RyanBabel19]

Going by whats being said he’s seen as a future starter and we just want a loan for him

[Jwils21]

Not sure why this is a big deal. Cost 7m, hasn’t worked out after a season, so the right thing to do is sell. Think a lot of fans have become over sentimental.

A new toy with a cool name. There's still pockets of our supporter base who think letting Naby Keita leave is a bad move.

[Aldo1988]

Get him out on loan, still think he's got a future here if he comes back stronger.

[Ghost Town]

Good job he was a midfield option for Klopp to list when mocking folk for saying we needed a CM last summer. I love the man but some of those press conferences have aged very badly.

You've having a mare recently with your posts. And here's another

[Ghost Town]

Going by whats being said he’s seen as a future starter and we just want a loan for him

Klopp in his presser the other day was pretty straight about the player. That he started off OK but that it hasn't worked out so far, but also that his attutude and training have been great and he may well go out on loan.

[Black Bull Nova]

He reminds me of a raw Coutinho, without the out of box shot. I think people sometimes feel like it is a risk to let promising players go but I will leave it to those who see him working day in, day out, they know best.

[Dim Glas]

Good job he was a midfield option for Klopp to list when mocking folk for saying we needed a CM last summer. I love the man but some of those press conferences have aged very badly.

More fool you (and countless others) who actually take words spoken in press conferences to heart and use it as some sort of gauge. Not that anything is wrong with listing Carvalho as an option is there, when he was in fact - an option. Klopp can do many things, but one thing he can’t do is look into the future to see what happens with a player be it injury, or failure to adapt or whatever.

[terry_macss_perm]

Going by whats being said he’s seen as a future starter and we just want a loan for him

More likely someone that we can make a future profit on.

Players who have gone on loan from us and come back to become regular starters is a pretty short list.