Author Topic: King Kennys master stroke. (Read 10291 times)

Mutton Geoff · « **Reply #40 on:** May 9, 2012, 01:48:56 pm »

Quote from: Purdy on May 9, 2012, 01:46:21 pm

No.
Was it a master stroke to leave him out on Saturday after being one of the few who gave a shit vs fulham and scored the winner vs everton?

old ground but 90% in here pre game wanted the Norwich team and style, hindsight is good though!

koptommy93 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 9, 2012, 01:49:13 pm »

I'm sorry but it wasn't, he took off a player who was playing very badly in game. Not much more to it I think

Always_A_Red · « **Reply #42 on:** May 9, 2012, 01:58:48 pm »

Andy was having a mare in the Newcastle game. he was getting completely slated from the fans and he did that ridiculous dive. Kenny took him off because he was playing shit, its as simple as that. There's no way Kenny would have thought 'I know, i'll take him off, he'll get loads of abuse, then he'll love playing for us'.

As its worked out, the grilling that he got from Newcastle fans seems to have been a catalyst for him to get his career back on track and he's looking like the player we all thought he could be when he joined.

For that though, I give credit to Andy Carroll and not Kenny.

Carlos: Very Kickable · « **Reply #43 on:** May 9, 2012, 02:06:30 pm »

I dont know if the owners will back Kenny after the FA Cup result - I very much hope they do as we have signs that we may make some progress the way we have played in patches this season.

Whatever happens I think it's important to remember what an incredibly difficult job Kenny has had to face since coming back. No matter how much experience you have in any job or who has trained you - even if you don't change a single one of your principles - its difficult to enact them with skill without the day-to-day experience of being involved and feeling your way through situations from which you learn and adapt. The German army has a word for it - " Fingerspitzengefühl " - and it is why the mark of a manager is how he reacts to problems to find solutions.

Our performances have occassionally been awful - most recently the Fulham game or the first 60 minutes of the cup final - but we have managed to produce a good reaction to both of those things which is hugely encouraging.

To an extent, the owners and the players themselves have all needed to practically get used to the new circumstances they have found themselves in. The owners responded by firing Comolli - which took some nerve. Players such as Andy or Jordan Henderson have dug deeper and changed their game as they have got to know their team-mates and how they play to obvious effect.

Kenny has made a lot of good and bad decisions this season in my view - only time will tell which are masterstrokes and which aren't. But all of them have required balls and that is a quality that Kenny is not short of. More so than Ferguson, or Mancini or Wenger. These players and those owners are lucky to have Kenny around and he deserves to be backed all of us simply as a man, however his decisions as a manager turn out.

RedRush · « **Reply #44 on:** May 9, 2012, 02:12:53 pm »

Let's give credit where it's due, and that should be Andy Carroll. He was already improving before that, just wasn't getting enough games. The FA cup match against the Mancs comes to mind.

It's a bit like saying it was Kenny's master stroke playing Carra every single game early on until he got injured so that Agger and Skrtel can form a superb partnership.

Kenny needs time as well as our support, but this is clutching at straws with all due respect. Kenny will make good and bad decisions. Sorry if I come across all wrong.

Ultimate Bromance · « **Reply #45 on:** May 9, 2012, 02:15:44 pm »

Think that's a bit of long bow to draw myself, must admit I thought it was the final nail in the coffin for his career here, but to his credit, he's come out snarling since the Newcastle game. He's more aggressive, he's also playing better football and getting involved in the build-up to attacks then busting a gut to get back in the box, now whether or not it's all down to that game or a string of games has allowed him to feel comfortable in the team, I'm not sure, but that substitution could just as easily have gone the other way and we could have had a sulky twat on our bench for the last month or so of the season.

I give all the credit to big Andy myself, he was poor for most of the season until he was hauled off, but since then, has been a beast. Hopefully he, and we as a team, can build on that.

Zlen · « **Reply #46 on:** May 9, 2012, 02:19:29 pm »

Quote from: RedRush on May 9, 2012, 02:12:53 pm

It's a bit like saying it was Kenny's master stroke playing Carra every single game early on until he got injured so that Agger and Skrtel can form a superb partnership.

Finally someone else noticed that, it was such a delicate and wise move wasn't it.

RedRush · « **Reply #47 on:** May 9, 2012, 02:30:24 pm »

Quote from: Zlenpasha on May 9, 2012, 02:19:29 pm

Finally someone else noticed that, it was such a delicate and wise move wasn't it.

I'm a trained spotter of such things. Of course Carra had to be a willing victim too.

drpepe · « **Reply #48 on:** May 9, 2012, 03:09:06 pm »

Quote from: QC on May 9, 2012, 12:49:01 pm

Don't buy this at all.

yep

it is just as valid to say AC has improved recently as he's just realised he'll miss out on the Euros if he plays like he did for most of the season (ie. looks like he can't be bothered)

JoburgRed · « **Reply #49 on:** May 9, 2012, 03:19:29 pm »

Kenny's experienced this before himself, went he went back to Celtic after his move to us - it really hurt him how much the fans hated him at the time and it stayed with him (read his biography)

I'm not entirely sure it was on purpose, but I really wouldn't be surprised...

babraham · « **Reply #50 on:** May 9, 2012, 03:43:12 pm »

Quote from: Dubit10 on May 9, 2012, 10:46:02 am

Over the season Kenny has taken some abuse and been called out on quite a few of the tactical decisions. One in particular stands out for me and at the time it baffled me. The taking off of Andy Carroll in the Newcastle match was something that i could'nt understand at all. Carroll was unmercifully abused by the fans that formally adored his every move and touch (much worse than Torres experienced last night) and looked visually shattered and humiliated at being dragged off.

In my opinion Andy before then had'nt got his heart in playing for LFC and missed the life he had made for himself in his hometown. It was a masterstroke by Kenny hauling him off as the hatred that the Newcastle had for him now was there for all to see and for Andy there was no going back. The man now looks like he has a point to prove he's got the bit between his teeth and looks hungry.

To be honest it shows what i know about football compared to Kenny. To my own shame i've not backed him 100% this season and have longed for Benitez to be brought back. I for one won't be questioning the King again.

In my opinion, Carroll has been playing well for months now. Since long before the Newcastle game.

Walshy nMe® · « **Reply #51 on:** May 9, 2012, 04:00:59 pm »

I don't think he had it in his mind to bring Carroll off expecting it to turn him, however I agree that game was the turning point.

I think he longed to go back and now he realises there is no chance, he is stuck here. Has not gotten his head down and determined to prove what a player he is.

trenchtownrasta · « **Reply #52 on:** May 9, 2012, 04:01:34 pm »

Quote from: QC on May 9, 2012, 12:49:01 pm

Don't buy this at all.

I really think this is one of the many examples of Kenny demonstrating his nous. There are others e.g. getting someone (Gerrard or Torres?) to warm up along the touchline early in the match to get a rise out of the fans and then not playing them. You could say that 'it happens all the time', but It must be stated that they were coming back from injury, quite possibly were never going to play and it had a distinct sparkle of Kenny magic.

Very subtle and slight but definitely have explosive effects. This aspect of his management is for me, one of the remaining shimmers of the Shankly > Paisley method.

51cam · « **Reply #53 on:** May 9, 2012, 04:08:22 pm »

It's a coincedence rather than master stroke IMO. I'll take it though.

aoaaron · « **Reply #54 on:** May 9, 2012, 04:16:16 pm »

I think someone else hit the nail on the head... credit goes to Andy, not Kenny for this.

In reality, Kenny has been one of Carroll's main problems in terms of getting game time, being able to show his worth to the first XI etc.

Andy has simply fought and fought and fought and now hes won a lot of people over. Maybe the Newcastle fans turning on him did have an effect on him but thats down to his mentality, not Kenny's substitution of a player who had a poor performance, was on a yellow card etc.

cptrios · « **Reply #55 on:** May 9, 2012, 04:34:13 pm »

I don't care who's responsible for it or how intentional it was - that experience had a positive effect on Carroll's play and attitude and I'm glad it happened. (I also think he'd been playing well before that and that the match didn't make the difference between night and day that some are saying it did, but it certainly put a fire in his belly that wasn't readily apparent before.) I'd personally rather think that it's all Andy's doing in spite of Kenny's decision, because that would say a lot about his (Carroll's) growth as a player and personal drive. It also allows for the idea that Kenny did do it intentionally, but that it was less of a masterstroke and more of a "fuck this, I'm taking him off. Either it kicks his ass into gear or ends his career with us - either way something's got to give" kind of thing.

QC · « **Reply #56 on:** May 9, 2012, 04:37:20 pm »

Quote from: trenchtownrasta on May 9, 2012, 04:01:34 pm

I really think this is one of the many examples of Kenny demonstrating his nous. There are others e.g. getting someone (Gerrard or Torres?) to warm up along the touchline early in the match to get a rise out of the fans and then not playing them. You could say that 'it happens all the time', but It must be stated that they were coming back from injury, quite possibly were never going to play and it had a distinct sparkle of Kenny magic.

Very subtle and slight but definitely have explosive effects. This aspect of his management is for me, one of the remaining shimmers of the Shankly > Paisley method.

The notion just seems like a bit of a desperate attempt to credit Dalglish with Carroll's form. Not knocking the positivity or anything, but it's all a bit tin foil hat for me.

kkjellquist · « **Reply #57 on:** May 9, 2012, 04:37:28 pm »

Quote from: cptrios on May 9, 2012, 04:34:13 pm

"fuck this, I'm taking him off. Either it kicks his ass into gear or ends his career with us - either way something's got to give"

ding ding ding...winner!

Cybertom · « **Reply #58 on:** May 9, 2012, 07:52:27 pm »

It's healthy to question someone in power as it is then possible to realise their genius; their answers impress you.
On topic; I'm not sure subbing him was the master-stroke, but I accept that Dalglish playing him was calculated. Anywho, he's been a monster since.

the_red_pill · « **Reply #59 on:** May 9, 2012, 08:12:05 pm »

Hope he turns out to be the player Kenny thought he would be and that his buying him and playing him-as well as defending him fiercely against us, the media and other supporters, turns out to be the master-stroke.

For now, though- it's beginning to look good. Credit should go to where its due- and when its due, since Kenny got a lot of stick on here about buying him in the first place, so its just fair that if he turns out good, he gets full credit.

luckyme653 · « **Reply #60 on:** May 9, 2012, 08:19:52 pm »

Andy's gonna come big next season...i have hopes for him and Hendo