Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!

[TepidT2O]

id guess it’s because he doesn’t talk like a private school poshboy, so go for the most working class one

They could have gone for McDonnell??

(Oops forgot he went to a private boarding school too).

[alonsoisared]

Pretty much all the polls have the gap closing over the last few days. Strap yourselves in boys and girls, plenty of time to go!

[Dr. Beaker]

Not a safe seat in the House - well nearly.

[No666]

So what are the chances of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson losing Uxbridge & South Ruislip? (I'm an optimist at heart).

[Dr. Beaker]

With tactical voting, possible.

Corbyn, less so.

[bornandbRED]

So you were jokingly suggesting people whose political views you don't agree with should have to undergo a test befote they vote. OK.

However you said my example was a false equivalence. The Jim Crow laws in the 1950s led to black voters having to face the voter registration test. The tests varied from state to state, but typically involved a multiple choice exam on state and federal politics and history, and a literacy test.

i can't see how that's a false equivalence?

Well done, you can read? (maybe that should be the first test). Yes, that’s exactly what I did. It was a tongue in cheek comment about the state of British politics. The futility of pro social messaging and the hypocrisy of the masses which will likely see a Tory majority despite the fact they have a hypocritical, lying leader whose party has overseen a decade of bullshit yet maintain the support of the masses.

It’s a false equivalence because the Jim Crow laws discriminated against black people specifically and advocated for their treatment as second class, inferior citizens. Whereas my comment had absolutely nothing to do with that on any level whatsoever. In other words, you pulled a completely random comment out of your arse.

[filopastry]

So what are the chances of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson losing Uxbridge & South Ruislip? (I'm an optimist at heart).

Very little I would say, a Leave voting seat where he marginally topped 50% last time around + a little bit of UKIP vote to tap as well (3.4%).

Although its another seat that Labour are throwing activists at.

[bornandbRED]

So what are the chances of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson losing Uxbridge & South Ruislip? (I'm an optimist at heart).

Having spent some time in the area - I’d say decent. Brunel Uni students will contribute too.

[So… Howard Philips]

Well done, you can read? (maybe that should be the first test). Yes, that’s exactly what I did. It was a tongue in cheek comment about the state of British politics. The futility of pro social messaging and the hypocrisy of the masses which will likely see a Tory majority despite the fact they have a hypocritical, lying leader whose party has overseen a decade of bullshit yet maintain the support of the masses.

It’s a false equivalence because the Jim Crow laws discriminated against black people specifically and advocated for their treatment as second class, inferior citizens. Whereas my comment had absolutely nothing to do with that on any level whatsoever. In other words, you pulled a completely random comment out of your arse.

Your snidey, superior comments are why these threads are regularly closed.

[bornandbRED]

Your snidey, superior comments are why these threads are regularly closed.

Not interested in tit for tat. Interpret my posts however you want.

[oldfordie]

I see Labour are promising to cut rail fares by 33% if elected.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-02/labour-announces-plan-to-cut-rail-fares-by-33-from-next-month/
So free broadband, 4 day week and railways fares cut by a third. are these all vote winners.
Few people ive spoken too who are still voting Labour are only doing so to get the Tories out and the NHS. all shake their heads and a frown when we talked about a 4 day week and free broadband.
How the f. can companies afford to cover the costs of loosing 20% of production, 4 day week or employ 20% more staff seems the only answer, crazy. let people pay for their own broadband if they want it, how will broadband suppliers survive.
I can see railway fare reductions being popular among voters who don't usually vote Labour but a third sounds a hell of a lot to subsidize. Labour say it will cost Ł1.5 bill and will be paid for from Vehicle Excise Duty. have the department of transport got a spare Ł1.5 bill to spend subziding railway fares every year or will other areas suffer a reduction in funding.

[classycarra]

https://twitter.com/uklabour/status/1201547554992873472?s=21

Absolutely fucking shameless

The shamelessness of a crook like that preaching about justice and miners being denied their funds. No principles

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/ian-lavery-received-165000-miners-13788425
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-trade-union-spokesman-ian-lavery-mortgage-a6985046.html
https://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/news/northumberland-mp-highlighted-during-meeting-arch-concerns-120976


Here he is with his son in blackface too:


Shocking how bulletproof labour shadow cabinet are as long as they kiss the leaders ring. Doesn't quite fit their 'antiracist' attempted branding

[So… Howard Philips]

I see Labour are promising to cut rail fares by 33% if elected.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-02/labour-announces-plan-to-cut-rail-fares-by-33-from-next-month/
So free broadband, 4 day week and railways fares cut by a third. are these all vote winners.
Few people ive spoken too who are still voting Labour are only doing so to get the Tories out and the NHS. all shake their heads and a frown when we talked about a 4 day week and free broadband.
How the f. can companies afford to cover the costs of loosing 20% of production, 4 day week or employ 20% more staff seems the only answer, crazy. let people pay for their own broadband if they want it, how will broadband suppliers survive.
I can see railway fare reductions being popular among voters who don't usually vote Labour but a third sounds a hell of a lot to subsidize. Labour say it will cost Ł1.5 bill and will be paid for from Vehicle Excise Duty. have the department of transport got a spare Ł1.5 bill to spend subziding railway fares every year or will other areas suffer a reduction in funding.

These promises are like a four year old's present list for Santa.

I just wish they would stick to what is important and realistic Esther than try to match Johnson for stretching the truth to breaking point.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

I see Labour are promising to cut rail fares by 33% if elected.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-02/labour-announces-plan-to-cut-rail-fares-by-33-from-next-month/
So free broadband, 4 day week and railways fares cut by a third. are these all vote winners.
Few people ive spoken too who are still voting Labour are only doing so to get the Tories out and the NHS. all shake their heads and a frown when we talked about a 4 day week and free broadband.
How the f. can companies afford to cover the costs of loosing 20% of production, 4 day week or employ 20% more staff seems the only answer, crazy. let people pay for their own broadband if they want it, how will broadband suppliers survive.
I can see railway fare reductions being popular among voters who don't usually vote Labour but a third sounds a hell of a lot to subsidize. Labour say it will cost Ł1.5 bill and will be paid for from Vehicle Excise Duty. have the department of transport got a spare Ł1.5 bill to spend subziding railway fares every year or will other areas suffer a reduction in funding.

basically this is the cost of putting Burgon front and centre isn’t it?

[oldfordie]

These promises are like a four year old's present list for Santa.

I just wish they would stick to what is important and realistic Esther than try to match Johnson for stretching the truth to breaking point.

Yeah, I don't think it will stop many voting Labour but it's not doing there credibilty any good when people on the street don't think it's a great idea.
theres a hell of a lot needs fixing right now after 9 yrs of Tory destruction, broadband's not one of them, did anyone ever think about Broadband before the election? 4 day week won't work just because Labour pass a law to enforce, there will be plenty of arguments to justify this but none of them are very convincing, unions are the people who should be fighting for 4 day weeks, can a company remain viable only working 4 days a week, in some circumstances yes, we did it for years in Halewood but union and management came to a arrangement, 37.5 hour week, worked longer hours every day so we could have a 4 night week and half day Friday on days.

[oldfordie]

basically this is the cost of putting Burgon front and centre isn’t it?

Do you mean having MPs like Burgon having too much input?

[filopastry]

This is a good watch, if you fancy depressing the fuck out of yourself at the state of the country.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Robinred]

A long read on the think tanks increasingly influencing the Tory party, on Brexit and on the 'free trade bonanza' to come.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/29/rightwing-thinktank-conservative-boris-johnson-brexit-atlas-network

Thanks for that Mark. I found that read both illuminating and chilling - the extremely wealthy essentially ‘creating’ friendly and cooperative government to grant them influence, in an ever-shrinking state apparatus.

The implications for the poverty gap and the future of health and welfare provision don’t bear thinking about.

[Lush is the best medicine...]

Do you mean having MPs like Burgon having too much input?

more to deflect from the typical Burgon tv car crash you need to offer something else for free

[killer-heels]

This is a good watch, if you fancy depressing the fuck out of yourself at the state of the country.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Its not surprising, white working class areas of Brum went Tory a long time ago.

I also find it annoying how not only Remain voters but black and asian areas hardly ever get much attention when it comes to focus groups and vox pops. Its like the white areas have the monopoly of all the radio and TV attention.

[So… Howard Philips]

This is a good watch, if you fancy depressing the fuck out of yourself at the state of the country.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

There was a piece on the other night when ex miners in Yorkshire were interviewed. When Thatcher died they had a street party complete with mock coffin which was then tossed on to a bonfire.

Some of those interviewed were determined to vote Tory, despite a life time of supporting their union and voting Labour, just to "Get Brexit done".

Solidarity, hey?

[The Gulleysucker]

Another excellent long read by John Harris (and John Domokos) here today ...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/dec/03/anywhere-but-westminster-vox-pops-understanding-uk-political-landscape

It's not so much about specific immediate current events, but more about the mood change they have observed over the last 10 years in the country as reflected in the series of Vox Pops that they have been doing over that period.

[Snail]

The Atlantic Council has now said they suspect that Russia had a hand in the NHS documents leak. From the Atlantic Council's Wiki:

The Digital Forensic Research Lab (DFRLab) was founded in 2016[47] to study disinformation in open source environments and report on democratic processes. The leading donors of the project and the think tank in general are currently Facebook after a 2018 sum was donated and the government of Great Britain.[48]

When are we going to get that Russia report, by the way? Are we ever?

[killer-heels]

The Atlantic Council has now said they suspect that Russia had a hand in the NHS documents leak. From the Atlantic Council's Wiki:

When are we going to get that Russia report, by the way? Are we ever?

Dunno but if they want to give us a hand in booting out the Tories then keep it up Russia.

[The Gulleysucker]

The Atlantic Council has now said they suspect that Russia had a hand in the NHS documents leak. From the Atlantic Council's Wiki:

Their involvement remains to be verified and possibly never will be, but it would definitely be in Putin and his gangster cronies interest to sew confusion if they can, even to the extent of spreading rumours of their possible involvement when they actually haven't been. It's high order Political wumming.

[BoRed]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/you-know-youre-not-legally-required-to-like-jeremy-corbyn-in-order-to-vote-for-him-right

[Dr. Beaker]

I would have thought a full on hard Brexit would be Putin's favoured outcome, then he'll start picking a few more reds of the pack.

[nayia2002]

This is a good watch, if you fancy depressing the fuck out of yourself at the state of the country.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

completely disappointing but not surprising to see how people have fallen for the lies/propaganda of the tories the last 3 years   

[Andy @ Allerton!]

An Australian Cartoonist gives his view:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/you-know-youre-not-legally-required-to-like-jeremy-corbyn-in-order-to-vote-for-him-right

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Struggling to keep up with the lies that Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson says?

Someone has gone to the time and efffort of keeping track of his vile bullshit so that you don't have to!


https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

[jepovic]

Yeah, I don't think it will stop many voting Labour but it's not doing there credibilty any good when people on the street don't think it's a great idea.
theres a hell of a lot needs fixing right now after 9 yrs of Tory destruction, broadband's not one of them, did anyone ever think about Broadband before the election? 4 day week won't work just because Labour pass a law to enforce, there will be plenty of arguments to justify this but none of them are very convincing, unions are the people who should be fighting for 4 day weeks, can a company remain viable only working 4 days a week, in some circumstances yes, we did it for years in Halewood but union and management came to a arrangement, 37.5 hour week, worked longer hours every day so we could have a 4 night week and half day Friday on days.

The target audience is party members, not potential party voters?

The logic of trying to get elected on such radical proposals, while tiptoeing on Brexit not to offend anyone, evades me.

[filopastry]

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 44% (+1)
LAB: 32% (-)
LDEM: 15% (+1)
GRN: 3% (-1)
BREX: 2% (-1)

via @KantarTNS, 28 Nov - 02 Dec
Chgs w/ 25 Nov

[oldfordie]

Its not surprising, white working class areas of Brum went Tory a long time ago.

I also find it annoying how not only Remain voters but black and asian areas hardly ever get much attention when it comes to focus groups and vox pops. Its like the white areas have the monopoly of all the radio and TV attention.

I still find it hard to understand how people can be so ignorant on basic Brexit facts when Brexit has dominated our news for 3 yrs.
Woman says, "Post Brexit growth" what does she mean when she says this?
she must think we will sell more goods abroad after brexit. it's ludicrous and I would love to hear her explanation why she thinks this will happen.
Fact, every country in the world will charge tarrifs on our goods , that means our goods will cost between 10%-40% more in every shop in the world and she thinks we will sell more goods after Brexit.crazy.
The growth will come when start signing all those trade deals.we have to negotiate hundreds of trade deals, they take years to negotiate, we are f..
We will have to charge tariffs on all imports from every country in the world under WTO rules.
This means inflation, it means our companies will have to put up prices which makes them even less competitive. wave the goods through tax free and no country will sign a trade deal, they will already have the best deal, a free trade.

[J_Kopite]

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/dec/03/anywhere-but-westminster-vox-pops-understanding-uk-political-landscape

[oldfordie]

The target audience is party members, not potential party voters?

The logic of trying to get elected on such radical proposals, while tiptoeing on Brexit not to offend anyone, evades me.

Are these policies popular amongst party members or are they supporting them because it's going to become party policy.
I can't see how 2 election losses resulting in a Tory majority government helps to keep the leadership in power. Corbyn will be gone if the Tories win a majority.

[clinical]

This is a good watch, if you fancy depressing the fuck out of yourself at the state of the country.

https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Idiots or not, to get these people back on side Corbyn needs to leave. Corbyn should have stepped down for the greater good which is stopping the Tories getting back in. To me that's the most important thing and so many past labour supporters won't vote because of him.

[Cpt_Reina]

Idiots or not, to get these people back on side Corbyn needs to leave. Corbyn should have stepped down for the greater good which is stopping the Tories getting back in. To me that's the most important thing and so many past labour supporters won't vote because of him.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/03/you-know-youre-not-legally-required-to-like-jeremy-corbyn-in-order-to-vote-for-him-right

[Yorkykopite]

Simply staggering.

For those who are unaware of his background, read this ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41688280

Indeed. The miners were obviously crushed by Thatcher and Ian MacGregor. But Lavery has been like a vulture since, enriching himself off the entrails. 

[The Gulleysucker]

You will probably remember it, but it's a shame PE aren't still running that cartoon strip The Brothers they had back in the 70's.

[dirks digglers]

I still find it hard to understand how people can be so ignorant on basic Brexit facts when Brexit has dominated our news for 3 yrs.
Woman says, "Post Brexit growth" what does she mean when she says this?
she must think we will sell more goods abroad after brexit. it's ludicrous and I would love to hear her explanation why she thinks this will happen.
Fact, every country in the world will charge tarrifs on our goods , that means our goods will cost between 10%-40% more in every shop in the world and she thinks we will sell more goods after Brexit.crazy.
The growth will come when start signing all those trade deals.we have to negotiate hundreds of trade deals, they take years to negotiate, we are f..
We will have to charge tariffs on all imports from every country in the world under WTO rules.
This means inflation, it means our companies will have to put up prices which makes them even less competitive. wave the goods through tax free and no country will sign a trade deal, they will already have the best deal, a free trade.

Yep. People still don't know anything about it because it's complicated and takes effort to read up - which would be fine except  politicians and much of the media have abdicated all efforts to have a grown up conversation, preferring a simplistic partisan message and cheap fictitious soundbites.

There's an element of chicken and egg about the shit level of discussion about detail in politics. But I think if more politicians had the gumption to be upfront even when delivering a this is complicated/tough message, people would be a lot more inclined to trust them and listen.