Topic: Prince Phillip has died

[DangerScouse]

Apologies Red Berry, that was insensitive of me.

[Dr. Beaker]

Well I thought Camilla looked quite good with a mask on - so I suppose I will be accused of being some kind of horse shagger now.

[Son of Spion]

Times we are living in to an extent. Like you, I'm  no royalist but I find all the hatred that people have so trying. I just don't think it can be good for people to get so frustrated about this. Yes the coverage is over the top, but go and do something else instead, it's not like there are not plenty of others things to do. I've had a great day managing to avoid everything so far, but I can understand that it affects some people, even if it doesn't me.

Hatred takes up an awful lot of energy that could be channeled into much more positive things.

I've no interest in the Royals whatsoever. If anything, I'd be in the Republican camp. All I know is a family have lost a loved one, and it doesn't matter how old that loved one is, that's very painful. The family and those who feel an attachment with the deceased, his family and what they represent should be left to mourn. The rest of us can choose to look on or not. Since he died I've not watched anything on the subject and I only knew the funeral was today because I read that a Premier League game was postponed because it clashed with it. My energies have gone into other, more productive things.

It's not a good look moaning about the coverage. There are about 200 other telly channels to watch if it's an issue. I think we have to remember that plenty of outsiders were ''wishing the Scouse bastards would shut up and move on'' when we were grieving a tragedy, and that wasn't a good look either. It's similar with so many things. If people are not emotionally invested personally, they often want to push it all away and not have to see it. This is a time for people I don't necessarily agree with to mourn their loss. I'm happy for them to do so.

[Welshred]

The PL game that is down as postponed is for the FA Cup Semi Final tomorrow SOS, but I agree with the rest of your post

[Son of Spion]

What I find trying is this sentiment that if I don't pile onto the bandwagon I might be X, Y or Z, and that because Philip was A I must feel B, or i open myself up to cheap potshots.

It's very black and white, with no room for nuance at all.

Black and white thinking pervades humanity and will not go away unfortunately.

For instance; when I was training to be a counsellor a question came up as to whether or not we would be ok with counselling a paedophile? It's been mentioned on mental health sites I used to go on too. Thing is, yes, I would counsel a paedophile, but in the eyes of some, that means you are suspect in some way. They say how can you empathise with them if you aren't like them? Thing is, I counsel human beings, not labels.

Point I'm making being that, in the eyes of many, if you can do A, you must also sympathise with B, so that means you must be C. As you said, there is no nuance whatsoever with a lot of people. It's all black and white, and when it is, wildly inaccurate conclusions can be jumped to. This happens in all manner of scenarios.

[Lad]

I'm in a weird position when it comes to the Royals.

As a coherent, thinking adult, I am vehemently anti-Royal.  I feel they are well past their use-by date, although I realise the pomp and circumstance surrounding them is a great tourist pull - even from nations that would never have royalty themselves.

That said, I do feel some weird, lingering respect for them.  Maybe it's some vague triggering of the doff-capping gene, but I know a fair number of them have served their country in the military; I know the Queen herself can be a bad-ass when she wants to be (see when she gave the Saudi Arabia leader a lesson in female driving in her mid-70s); and for all his extremely racist faults, Prince Phillip was a part of the cultural furniture. 

In his own way, he was a cultural icon and his death symbolises a loss to something in the fabric of this country as a whole.  I think people are used to him essentially being a permanent fixture, and that losing him represents the passing of something, some permanence they had faith in.  It also drives home to this people that one day, probably soon, we'll lose the Queen herself.

I'm not trying to come down on one side or the other here.  I'm just trying to explain feelings and comprehend the reaction, including my own.  I understand those who have no respect at all, and want to engage in outright mockery; equally I realise these feelings are not-generation bound, and that there are people older than me here who are equally indifferent or outright hostile to royalty.

But I can't deny that I'm sad about all this.  And when I watched the gun salute, even fragments of it, I found myself choking up a little.  I don't think it's about Phillip himself for me, parse, but more likely what he represented.  Like I said, I'm by no means a royalist, but I guess it has touched something deeper in me.

Totally agree with your great post mate. I'm neither royalist or republican and am happy to just not generally take a strong interest.

But there is no need for all the hatred. If people don't like it then just ignore it and do something else. Also I do find myself filling up at the slightest things these days like when the lady won the National last week.

And today also though I've been working I think I may have got a wee bit choked for a few seconds. Definitely an age thing I reckon.

[Son of Spion]

The PL game that is down as postponed is for the FA Cup Semi Final tomorrow SOS, but I agree with the rest of your post

Apologies if I'm wrong, but I read that the game between Southampton and Palace was postponed today due to clashing with the funeral.

EDIT: Ah, I get it now. Southampton are in the Semi final, hence the postponement. I lost interest in the cup ages ago, so didn't know who was in the Semis. I've clearly got my wires crossed somewhere. Cheers for the clarification. 

[Red Beret]

Black and white thinking pervades humanity and will not go away unfortunately.

For instance; when I was training to be a counsellor a question came up as to whether or not we would be ok with counselling a paedophile? It's been mentioned on mental health sites I used to go on too. Thing is, yes, I would counsel a paedophile, but in the eyes of some, that means you are suspect in some way. They say how can you empathise with them if you aren't like them? Thing is, I counsel human beings, not labels.

Point I'm making being that, in the eyes of many, if you can do A, you must also sympathise with B, so that means you must be C. As you said, there is no nuance whatsoever with a lot of people. It's all black and white, and when it is, wildly inaccurate conclusions can be jumped to. This happens in all manner of scenarios.

Aye. It's like telling a mother she MUST hate her son because he has committed murder. It is never that simple.

I am not a hateful person by nature, and I don't like having anger issues. They're horrid emotions that nobody in their right mind would choose to experience.

Apologies Red Berry, that was insensitive of me.

No worries.

[ShakaHislop]

Hatred takes up an awful lot of energy that could be channeled into much more positive things.

I've no interest in the Royals whatsoever. If anything, I'd be in the Republican camp. All I know is a family have lost a loved one, and it doesn't matter how old that loved one is, that's very painful. The family and those who feel an attachment with the deceased, his family and what they represent should be left to mourn. The rest of us can choose to look on or not. Since he died I've not watched anything on the subject and I only knew the funeral was today because I read that a Premier League game was postponed because it clashed with it. My energies have gone into other, more productive things.

It's not a good look moaning about the coverage. There are about 200 other telly channels to watch if it's an issue. I think we have to remember that plenty of outsiders were ''wishing the Scouse bastards would shut up and move on'' when we were grieving a tragedy, and that wasn't a good look either. It's similar with so many things. If people are not emotionally invested personally, they often want to push it all away and not have to see it. This is a time for people I don't necessarily agree with to mourn their loss. I'm happy for them to do so.

It's very much possible for a family to mourn the death of a loved one without said mourning being simulcast on every BBC channel. Many families manage to do so every day. It's such a bad faith argument to suggest that any complaints whatsoever about how the media has covered the death is a heartless denial of the need to grieve.

Coverage of general election results and COVID lockdown announcements are both events of national importance, but the BBC still provides alternative programming on its range of channels while they occur. There's no justifiable reason for last week being different.

[Son of Spion]

It's very much possible for a family to mourn the death of a loved one without said mourning being simulcast on every BBC channel. Many families manage to do so every day. It's such a bad faith argument to suggest that any complaints whatsoever about how the media has covered the death is a heartless denial of the need to grieve.

Coverage of general election results and COVID lockdown announcements are both events of national importance, but the BBC still provides alternative programming on its range of channels while they occur. There's no justifiable reason for last week being different.

I do agree with you, but I've just chosen to bypass the whole thing.

If some want to complain about such blanket coverage I understand that too. I've not even suggested what you termed the ''bad faith argument.''

It's clear that many people are sick to the back teeth of the coverage and want to say so. That's fine by me. I'm just not invested enough to be either racked with grief or full of anger over the coverage though. I've not seen any coverage anyway, as it's so easy to swerve if you really want to.

[Son of Spion]

Aye. It's like telling a mother she MUST hate her son because he has committed murder. It is never that simple.

I am not a hateful person by nature, and I don't like having anger issues. They're horrid emotions that nobody in their right mind would choose to experience.

I think the thing is that life is complex, and complex is scary. So it's easier to box things off in black and white terms than it is to really think them through.

[John C]

Apologies Red Berry, that was insensitive of me.

Nice one mate, I appreciate it for him also
Sometimes it seems everyone has to be on the same side of a divided line. Life isn't like that, even on a Liverpool forum.

to be honest, this week has made me think about discussing with the other Mods how we approach the death of the Queen.

I'm certain Yorky's encounters with Betty will be enthralling, other than those encounters it may be a * thread.

[Red Beret]

I think the thing is that life is complex, and complex is scary. So it's easier to box things off in black and white terms than it is to really think them through.

It's not too dissimilar with the peer pressure you'd experience to "fit in" at school.  You're just expected to think and act in a certain way.

I realise we're all here because of a common set of denominators; we're all LFC fans and mostly leftwing, for example.  But it shouldn't be an echo chamber either. I'm just as guilty of it as anybody else on other subjects.

[John C]

Black and white thinking pervades humanity and will not go away unfortunately.

For instance; when I was training to be a counsellor a question came up as to whether or not we would be ok with counselling a paedophile? It's been mentioned on mental health sites I used to go on too. Thing is, yes, I would counsel a paedophile, but in the eyes of some, that means you are suspect in some way. They say how can you empathise with them if you aren't like them? Thing is, I counsel human beings, not labels.

Point I'm making being that, in the eyes of many, if you can do A, you must also sympathise with B, so that means you must be C. As you said, there is no nuance whatsoever with a lot of people. It's all black and white, and when it is, wildly inaccurate conclusions can be jumped to. This happens in all manner of scenarios.

Good post as usual SOS mate.

[Yorkykopite]

Nice one mate, I appreciate it for him also
Sometimes it seems everyone has to be on the same side of a divided line. Life isn't like that, even on a Liverpool forum.

to be honest, this week has made me think about discussing with the other Mods how we approach the death of the Queen.

I'm certain Yorky's encounters with Betty will be enthralling, other than those encounters it may be a * thread.

We did stay at her boarding house in Prestatyn once a year so I did get to know her quite well. Lovely woman, filthy kitchen. But, yes, I'll save those tales until that terrible day when.........when Charles becomes our King.

[John C]

We did stay at her boarding house in Prestatyn once a year so I did get to know her quite well. Lovely woman, filthy kitchen. But, yes, I'll save those tales until that terrible day when.........when Charles becomes our King.

What year yorky? Was it more a deterioration of her eyesight rather than a domestic neglect?
Oh, or even a cleaner strike.

[Yorkykopite]

What year yorky? Was it more a deterioration of her eyesight rather than a domestic neglect?
Oh, or even a cleaner strike.

There had been a cleaner strike in Prestatyn. I think it was the United Women's Broomworkers and Associated Cleaning Trades of North Wales who called the strike. This was '72. But Betty herself was a bit of her...how can I say this without offending royalists...a bit of a domestic...errr....slattern. Lovely lady, as I think I said, but you know....

I always remember her yapping to my mum at the breakfast table one time, telling some long convoluted story about Princess Anne, and her cigarette ash falling onto the yolk of my fried egg. I must have looked pleadingly at mum and Betty saw my distress. "Never mind that petal", she said, and she stuck her finger (all brown from the ciggies it was) into the egg and mixed up the ash with the runny yolk. "There you go", she said, "What you can't see won't harm you."

But I could see it. It was all brown. Mum told me later that the British aristocracy was famously dirty and never had baths. I subsequently learned from reading Eric Hobsbawm it was true.

[Dr. Beaker]

to be honest, this week has made me think about discussing with the other Mods how we approach the death of the Queen.

I bet Andrew can't wait. He'll probably go as a Star Ship Commander.

[12C]

It's not too dissimilar with the peer pressure you'd experience to "fit in" at school.  You're just expected to think and act in a certain way.

I realise we're all here because of a common set of denominators; we're all LFC fans and mostly leftwing, for example.  But it shouldn't be an echo chamber either. I'm just as guilty of it as anybody else on other subjects.

I must admit the wife put the funeral on and I immediately thought about when my dad died. Me and our kid were either side of my mam holding her hands.
Whatever we think of the royal brood, that was an old lady who has just lost her husband. Whatever the relationship was between them, as you say it was sad to see her sat alone with no one to hold her hand.

[Red Beret]

I must admit the wife put the funeral on and I immediately thought about when my dad died. Me and our kid were either side of my mam holding her hands.
Whatever we think of the royal brood, that was an old lady who has just lost her husband. Whatever the relationship was between them, as you say it was sad to see her sat alone with no one to hold her hand.

Saw a two minute Guardian video of the event on YouTube and there was a few seconds of the Queen sitting with her head bowed, looking very small and frail and alone.  You couldn't help but think that she was trying very hard not to sob uncontrollably.

We can take the mickey out of the size of the funeral - my dear friend Betty passed away back in February, barely a month before she turned 95.  I had to watch the service on livestream and the first thing the Deacon said was that both Betty and the congregation deserved better, and that under normal circumstances the church would have been wall to wall with mourners. 

No different here.  Under normal circumstances, there would have been heads of state, presidents, top brass from almost every country on the planet.  You can argue whether the Prince deserved that kind of a showing, but for a royal funeral of a Queen consort it was quite limited.

Comments on the video were about what you would expect and all - pretty much the reverse of this place.  Full of Tories complaining about skank socialists who hate their country and roll around in the filth for having the nerve to decry the royals (essentially).

[FlashGordon]

Saw a two minute Guardian video of the event on YouTube and there was a few seconds of the Queen sitting with her head bowed, looking very small and frail and alone.  You couldn't help but think that she was trying very hard not to sob uncontrollably.

We can take the mickey out of the size of the funeral - my dear friend Betty passed away back in February, barely a month before she turned 95.  I had to watch the service on livestream and the first thing the Deacon said was that both Betty and the congregation deserved better, and that under normal circumstances the church would have been wall to wall with mourners. 

No different here.  Under normal circumstances, there would have been heads of state, presidents, top brass from almost every country on the planet.  You can argue whether the Prince deserved that kind of a showing, but for a royal funeral of a Queen consort it was quite limited.

Comments on the video were about what you would expect and all - pretty much the reverse of this place.  Full of Tories complaining about skank socialists who hate their country and roll around in the filth for having the nerve to decry the royals (essentially).

This is the thing though he doesn't. Neither does she. No one deserves a funeral like that just because of the family they were born in to or married in to.

[Red Beret]

This is the thing though he doesn't. Neither does she. No one deserves a funeral like that just because of the family they were born in to or married in to.

That's the kind of funeral he would have had under normal circumstances because that's the way the world is. That's the fact, regardless of whether it's deserved.

[So… Howard Philips]

That's the kind of funeral he would have had under normal circumstances because that's the way the world is. That's the fact, regardless of whether it's deserved.

From the clips I've seen this pared back funeral was dignified.

And my old man would have been well pleased seeing the Royal Marines front and centre.

And just saw a clip of Johnson in a scruffy unpressed suit and scuffed, unpolished shoes. To quote Terry Thomas - 'What a showaar'.

[TSC]

From the clips I've seen this pared back funeral was dignified.

And my old man would have been well pleased seeing the Royal Marines front and centre.

And just saw a clip of Johnson in a scruffy unpressed suit and scuffed, unpolished shoes. To quote Terry Thomas - 'What a showaar'.

Was dignified generally.  Seen William and Harry chatting.  Wonder what the rags made of that.

Sight of Andrew with a chest full of medals was less comfortable viewing, although at least he was unable to don a military uniform despite his reported demands.

[PaulF]

Well I thought Camilla looked quite good with a mask on - so I suppose I will be accused of being some kind of horse shagger now.

Now?  Thought we all knew you went for a horse if there were no sheep left at the country fair.

[Sangria]

This is the thing though he doesn't. Neither does she. No one deserves a funeral like that just because of the family they were born in to or married in to.

You might find that her funeral, when it comes and if circumstances permit, will have quite a few mourners based on the job she's done, and not just on her birth.

[Sangria]

Saw a two minute Guardian video of the event on YouTube and there was a few seconds of the Queen sitting with her head bowed, looking very small and frail and alone.  You couldn't help but think that she was trying very hard not to sob uncontrollably.

Having spoken at my dad's funeral and knowing full well the emotions involved, I can't get my head around anyone wanting to dismiss the emotions of those closely related to the deceased. At least show a modicum of respect even if you don't want to be actively involved.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'm just waiting for CHOPPER to join the love in

[Indomitable_Carp]

Haven´t dipped into this thread as of yet, but just posting to say I agree with pretty much everything written on this page.

I am a Republican. I find fawning over Royalty to be instinctively cringeworthy and nauseating. I am very glad to be in Spain where I have not had to see anything related to the funeral aside from a few articles.

 But I don´t really see the need for the pile ons and bile either. An old fella has died. He might have been a bit racist, he might be minted, he might be a Royal, but he is not Hitler. He is basically known for a few racist wisecracks and for following the Queen around. If people want to grieve out of some weird sense of attachment, leave them to it. Change the channel or get outside now lockdown has ended.

[liverbloke]

that landrover/hearse vehicle

i'm thinking of modifying my mountain bike and doing a similar thing

i'm also thinking of recording a message telling people what i really think about them - got to think about my other half though as she'll have final say even if she dies first!!!!

also thinking of having 10 stunning women turn up all fiim-star model types who sit at the back crying into their hankies

..and a couple of darkened-out windowed cadillacs that just turn p at the graveside and toss out classy wreaths that say things like 'he was a legend' or 'he made us what we are today'

all that will ultimately either make people laugh or piss them right off

[John C]

This is the thing though he doesn't. Neither does she. No one deserves a funeral like that just because of the family they were born in to or married in to.

You're probably going to need to isolate yourself from the telly, the internet and the circulation of the planet when the Queen dies.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Haven´t dipped into this thread as of yet, but just posting to say I agree with pretty much everything written on this page.

I am a Republican. I find fawning over Royalty to be instinctively cringeworthy and nauseating. I am very glad to be in Spain where I have not had to see anything related to the funeral aside from a few articles.

 But I don´t really see the need for the pile ons and bile either. An old fella has died. He might have been a bit racist, he might be minted, he might be a Royal, but he is not Hitler. He is basically known for a few racist wisecracks and for following the Queen around. If people want to grieve out of some weird sense of attachment, leave them to it. Change the channel or get outside now lockdown has ended.

Lockdown hasn't ended

[The North Bank]

I watched the service yesterday, intrigued by the razzmatazz, the uniforms, swords, big hats, guns, wondering how long it took for everyone to learn their lines, and how meticulous the organisation of such an event at double quick time is.  It was very interesting to see how the royal family conduct their business, I didnt really understand much of what was happening, there was a maestro priest conducting some sort of musical orchestra, a lot of it seemed to be either unintelligible English or Latin.
Prince Phillip was 99, by all means had a great life, I dont see a reason to weep as neither his life nor his passing were tragic. I feel sorry for the family, those of them who will miss him, they are still human beings regardless of the circus they live in.
On the ceremony itself, not my cup of tea, way over the top, he was neither Vito Corleone nor Jesus Christ. Obviously only of those was real.

[thejbs]

What are all the medals about?  I mean, Edward can't even claim they're for participation. 

[jillcwhomever]

Having spoken at my dad's funeral and knowing full well the emotions involved, I can't get my head around anyone wanting to dismiss the emotions of those closely related to the deceased. At least show a modicum of respect even if you don't want to be actively involved.

Exactly, a loss is a loss. If you can't show respect just go and do something else.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

What are all the medals about?  I mean, Edward can't even claim they're for participation. 

25 metre swimming medal
50 metre swimming medal
75 meter swimming medal
100 meter swimming medal
Fell off the diving board and got rescued by a toddler campaign medal

[TepidT2O]

What are all the medals about?  I mean, Edward can't even claim they're for participation. 

Most are ceremonial I guess.. Apart from Andrew who genuinely did earn them

[FlashGordon]

You might find that her funeral, when it comes and if circumstances permit, will have quite a few mourners based on the job she's done, and not just on her birth.

 

What job has she done?

[FlashGordon]

You're probably going to need to isolate yourself from the telly, the internet and the circulation of the planet when the Queen dies.

The only Philip stuff I see is on here, and even that's too much 

Subservience should've went out with the Enlightenment.

[TepidT2O]

What job has she done?

Ceremonial head of state (to give a serious answer).

Royalty as a concept is nuts, but I quite like the separation of political and ceremonial roles of head of state.  In most countries they are the same job.