Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"

[BOBSCOUSE]

So is Alisson a remainer?

I wouldn't say so, comes off his line more than most keepers.

[Yosser0_0]

I wouldn't say so, comes off his RED line more than most keepers.

Fixed that for you. 

[ShakaHislop]

There was a guy on Victoria Derbyshire show saying that if Leave was denied there would be protests twice the size of the Peoples march

These fuckers cannot do anything of any significance. Their constituency is too old and as brits they are not built for protests like those across the channel.

Maybe the likes of UKIP will get more votes and as well as many fringe right wing parties but if anything thats a good thing. We have needed a split of the right wing vote for years.

There was a guy on Victoria Derbyshire show saying that if Leave was denied there would be protests twice the size of the Peoples march

These fuckers cannot do anything of any significance. Their constituency is too old and as brits they are not built for protests like those across the channel.

Maybe the likes of UKIP will get more votes and as well as many fringe right wing parties but if anything thats a good thing. We have needed a split of the right wing vote for years.

I've seen the bollocks excuse used by some people that Brexit is still set to happen, so Leavers don't have an incentive to march.

As things stand today, it's far less certain that any form of Brexit will happen than it was in March 2017, when pro-EU protestors managed a turnout of around 100.000 despite it being months after the referendum (so not simply a knee-jerk reaction to the result) and Article 50 due to be triggered less than a week later. Even though the threat to Brexit has increased since then, it didn't look to me like there were anywhere near 100.000 out there today, let alone a million.

If there was ever a time for Leavers to back up their talk of scarily large numbers taking the streets if their "will" is "frustrated", it's now but they're not. Even if we don't leave, and they do subsequently manage to increase the numbers a bit, will they and their sympathisers be asked by the media if they're sore losers who can't accept the result of a democratic vote to the same extent Remainers have? I'm not holding my breath. It'll likely be more doubling down on the "Westminster bubble failing to listen to the concerns of the left behinds" narrative.

[CornerFlag]

I mean...



This guy's convinced me, I was always on the wrong side.

[TepidT2O]

Oh no....
The independent says May is going to call an election if she can’t force through meangful vote 4.

Jesus titty fucking Christ.  And I thought it couldn’t get any worse.

This is aramageddon with two apocalyptic outcomes.  Neither wil, help one iota.

[Red Beret]

I get that of course but Bolton seemed to think he was making the case that you would be better off out when in fact he was actually pointing out, at least with regard to trade with the U.S.,  that you would be significantly worse.

I think we can all agree that most people attached to the Trump Administration are not there necessarily because of their smarts.

Other than that, the fact is Bolton can make that statement because he is fully aware that this whole mess is being driven by Tory ideology, and that what he says wont matter a damn to the final outcome.

Why do you think Tusk looks so pained on the issue?  He knows that, despite the referendum result, a huge chunk of the UK is being dragged into this against its will, to satisfy nothing more than an internal power play.  But there's only so much he can say or do without coming across as interfering.

[Yosser0_0]

Oh no....
The independent says May is going to call an election if she can’t force through meangful vote 4.

Jesus titty fucking Christ.  And I thought it couldn’t get any worse.

This is aramageddon with two apocalyptic outcomes.  Neither wil, help one iota.

But then again, can you trust a word she says?

[ShakaHislop]

I mean...



This guy's convinced me, I was always on the wrong side.

Wouldn't surprise me if he's the type that supports banning the wearing of face coverings in public.

[TepidT2O]

But then again, can you trust a word she says?

I can’t take it.

I hate nearly all of them.

[Red Beret]

Oh no....
The independent says May is going to call an election if she can’t force through meangful vote 4.

Jesus titty fucking Christ.  And I thought it couldn’t get any worse.

This is aramageddon with two apocalyptic outcomes.  Neither wil, help one iota.

what the actual?  Right about know, May's only redeeming feature is that she isn't Corbyn.  Seems like a ploy to try and lay the blame for the Brexit failure at the feet of the opposition rather than her own ERG.

Even if by some miracle May secures a majority, it can't be much more than what she had in 2017.  That might help her - or rather, her successor - but it would surely cause a Brexit delay till the end of the year.

[Yosser0_0]

I think we can all agree that most people attached to the Trump Administration are not there necessarily because of their smarts.

Other than that, the fact is Bolton can make that statement because he is fully aware that this whole mess is being driven by Tory ideology, and that what he says wont matter a damn to the final outcome.

Why do you think Tusk looks so pained on the issue?  He knows that, despite the referendum result, a huge chunk of the UK is being dragged into this against its will, to satisfy nothing more than an internal power play.  But there's only so much he can say or do without coming across as interfering.

A real diplomat, when Obama came over in '16 saying that the UK would be at the back of the queue for trade deals it really back fired as it was an affront to the British people to insult them in such a way. 

[Skeeve]

That diagram doesn't have revoke on it. :-/

The one linked has cancel brexit as one of 3 options for 12th april, it also looks clipped compared with the one on the bbc site as that also has cancel brexit as one of the options on the bottom row too.

[Ray K]

Catch 22 for them.  They want to stay in the Union more than they want out of the European Union.

That's not a Catch-22. You pick the one which is most important to you - you might say the one which is their entire raison d'etre.

If they hated the EU as equally as they loved the Union, that'd be a real dilemma for them.

[No666]

She's going to go into the next election as Prime Minister and then resign to facilitate a leadership election?

[killer-heels]

Oh no....
The independent says May is going to call an election if she can’t force through meangful vote 4.

Jesus titty fucking Christ.  And I thought it couldn’t get any worse.

This is aramageddon with two apocalyptic outcomes.  Neither wil, help one iota.

It will be amazing if she calls an election. Most of her party wont want one. Lets not forget they want her out.

[cowtownred]

I'll be waiting DUP's rendition of "Anthem of Europe" @ Parliament. SNP did it quite nicely 2017.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/esTOPwh0REM" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/esTOPwh0REM</a>

Big problem.  They only know 2 songs.  Nearer my God to thee, and The Sash my father wore.

[TepidT2O]

It will be amazing if she calls an election. Most of her party wont want one. Lets not forget they want her out.

I suspect it’s a final attempt at the deal.

“Vote for the deal or you’ll get Corbyn”..  not sure how she will get another hit at the deal in Parliament though,.

[Zeb]

She's back to threatening all the things to all the peoples. Would be fascinated to know whether she realises that it leads to the revocation or no deal choice by incentivising everyone to dig in more.

[Yosser0_0]

It will be amazing if she calls an election. Most of her party wont want one. Lets not forget they want her out.

Yeah neither side wants one, I heard a Labour MP earlier on the radio talking about how terrifying the offer from May was to resign if they backed her deal - because they have no idea who the replacement would be, but more than likely it would mean a Hard Brexiter, how stupid is she? A GE could loose either of them (parties) loads of seats - who knows, the electorate have become as erratic as the MPs. 

[Yosser0_0]

She's back to threatening all the things to all the peoples. Would be fascinated to know whether she realises that it leads to the revocation or no deal choice by incentivising everyone to dig in more.

Deep breath....in a way it reminds me of Hitlers final days, obviously not that serious, but your words drew parallels for me.

[Red Beret]

The one linked has cancel brexit as one of 3 options for 12th april, it also looks clipped compared with the one on the bbc site as that also has cancel brexit as one of the options on the bottom row too.

I refer the honourable gentlemen to the reply I gave some moments ago

It does. It has a single 'cancel brexit' scenario.

Oh yeah!  Tucked in so you can barely see it - almost like an afterthought!

I reckon we need to resort to Plan B myself:

[Red Beret]

That's not a Catch-22. You pick the one which is most important to you - you might say the one which is their entire raison d'etre.

If they hated the EU as equally as they loved the Union, that'd be a real dilemma for them.

That's true.  Still, it must be gutting for them that now they have the chance to get away from the EU they have finally been forced to face the impracticalities. 

And given that NI voted to Remain I'm guessing the optics of a potential election may have caught up with them too.  In fact, it might have been GE murmurings that prompted them to issue their statement.

As things stand, UKIP would have a gilt edged opportunity to gobble up votes from the Tories in an election - if they can remain functional.  I really don't understand May's reasoning - I couldn't see her campaigning any better than last time, and last time she sucked so hard.  She wont be able to get away with any of that running through cornfields bullshit this time; her mask is well and truly torn.

[Red Beret]

She's back to threatening all the things to all the peoples. Would be fascinated to know whether she realises that it leads to the revocation or no deal choice by incentivising everyone to dig in more.

As things stand, no deal, revoke or extend remain the only viable options.  Extend - either for a referendum or an election - is only a stalling tactic, but for what?  May's deal isn't up for renegotiation.  These problems are only going to circle round again. 

At best, it allows a new leader to break out of the corner May has painted herself into - somebody who will drop her red lines, or bite the bullet on revoke.  Both of those options have major repercussions in Parliament, but after an election they may seem more palatable.  Worst case scenario is that it buys time to prepare for a No Deal Brexit - and if the Tories are still in charge after a GE and they put a nutjob in charge that might well be on the cards.

May is going to have a helluva job fighting an election after this fiasco though.  It has to be an attempt to strong arm the party into backing her.  Talk about last throw of the dice.

[Skeeve]

Indeed. I've always resisted getting involved in these 'The BBC are too left/right wing' conversations in the past, but recent evidence is pretty damning and conclusive. I don't know whether it's fear of the government, or obsequiousness, or whether BBC news and current affairs just happens to be run largely by right-wingers, but the bias is clear and undeniable.

I don't think the bbc news is run by right-wingers, it seems far more like they have been cowed by numerous tory governments threats to their funding to remain impartial.

I wonder if they look at their output as a whole, most topical or satirical comedy is going to be anti-tory since they are the party in government, so in the name of 'balance' the news shifts to the right rather than trying to actually be balanced.

[Yosser0_0]

As things stand, no deal, revoke or extend remain the only viable options.  Extend - either for a referendum or an election - is only a stalling tactic, but for what?  May's deal isn't up for renegotiation.  These problems are only going to circle round again. 

At best, it allows a new leader to break out of the corner May has painted herself into - somebody who will drop her red lines, or bite the bullet on revoke.  Both of those options have major repercussions in Parliament, but after an election they may seem more palatable.  Worst case scenario is that it buys time to prepare for a No Deal Brexit - and if the Tories are still in charge after a GE and they put a nutjob in charge that might well be on the cards.

May is going to have a helluva job fighting an election after this fiasco though.  It has to be an attempt to strong arm the party into backing her.  Talk about last throw of the dice.

Really? Could you see the next Tory leader dropping the Red lines or Revoking?

[Lush is the best medicine...]

It will be amazing if she calls an election. Most of her party wont want one. Lets not forget they want her out.

yup, they’ll just vote against it. Which will be hilarious

[filopastry]

How can May call a GE now anyway, she is a lame duck leader who has already said she is off imminently, how can she ask for a mandate based on that.

Or are we meant to have a leadership contest in the middle of an election campaign.

Even be her standards this is a "remarkable" idea.

[Skeeve]

I'd imagine now if it goes to a peoples vote the question would have to be three way - No Deal / Deal / Remain. The deal would have to be either the WA or something along the lines of the Customs union, provided that gets EU buy in. The question is then would parliament allow the "No Deal" option, they don't seem to want it on the table, but they did allow a binary Yes/No on EU membership at the last referendum. It might be difficult to keep that question away from the vote, also it depends upon your point of view as it could divide the Leave vote or galvanise it towards a "No deal" vote, either way its a huge risk as we saw at the last referendum. The Remain vote I imagine would be constant or perhaps increase (I think). A peoples vote isn't to be taken for granted, the question is crucial as there's a lot of fucking dick heads out there with a vote.

I think it should be a straight Remain vs No Deal question in a referendum, any kind of deal will inevitably end up being chipped away at by the right-wing anyway and they will continue to use the EU as a scapegoat for all the hardships caused by brexit when it would actually be all their fault, so take away that excuse by giving them the most complete break they want and given time maybe the British people might see sense.

[lamad]

On one of Germany's two public-service tv channels tonight their main correspondent in Brussels - she and her colleague in London have been on constant standby for weeks now, surely they must be looking towards a long holiday at the end of it - she said they are hearing 'through the grapevine' that the EU might be looking at a longer extension. Unless either the current WA drags itself across the finish line or a no deal Brexit happens on April 12th. Now, in case the WA will not rise from the dead and the British want to avoid no deal, May (or whoever) will ask for an extension and in this case the EU would possibly extend until the end of 2020. During the extension possibly stuff like the CU could be talked about and details could be sorted about the future relationship.

She said that the general feeling is the EU would rather tolerate British MPs in the EU parliament - MPs whose country essentially wants to leave the EU, so you could argue they have no place there - than have Britain crash out with no deal.

[Ray K]

That's true.  Still, it must be gutting for them that now they have the chance to get away from the EU they have finally been forced to face the impracticalities. 

To be honest, before all this stuff started the whole Europe thing would have been of no importance at all to the DUP. It's not like the rights and wrongs of the Single Market got any mileage in their conferences and manifestos.

I think the DUP supported Brexit cos (a) their fellow travelers at the reactionary end of the Tory party supported it and (b) the Shinners and Dublin opposed it.
Make no mistake, if SF had supported Brexit, the DUP would have been Remainers.

Now I think they might be desperate for all this nonsense to end and get back to their normal version of bigotry and intransigence and most people on The Mainland ignoring them. Cos they now know that May's likely successors like Johnson and Rees-Mogg would sell them out in a nanosecond if it meant getting into no. 10.

[Alan_X]

That diagram doesn't have revoke on it. :-/

"Cancel Brexit" is between "No deal Brexit" on 12th April and "Further extension".

[Lush is the best medicine...]

https://twitter.com/georginafstubbs/status/1111715367615901701?s=21

Lovely lot these

[Trada]

I would love an election, but I can't see how she can threaten one, because she just can't call for one now MPs have to vote for it.

Or am I missing something.

[Alan_X]

I would love an election, but I can't see how she can threaten one, because she just can't call for one now MPs have to vote for it.

Or am I missing something.

What would an election achieve?

*edit... just realised who this is.

[thejbs]

Faisal Islam
‏
Verified account
 
@faisalislam
 12m12 minutes ago
More
So @SamCoatesTimes says that dozens of MPs next week have a tutorial scheduled on what the customs union is from some trade experts...



Absolutely staggering.

Not surprised given that the Tory SofS for NI didn't know that nationalists and unionists didn't vote for each others parties.

[Yosser0_0]

On one of Germany's two public-service tv channels tonight their main correspondent in Brussels - she and her colleague in London have been on constant standby for weeks now, surely they must be looking towards a long holiday at the end of it - she said they are hearing 'through the grapevine' that the EU might be looking at a longer extension. Unless either the current WA drags itself across the finish line or a no deal Brexit happens on April 12th. Now, in case the WA will not rise from the dead and the British want to avoid no deal, May (or whoever) will ask for an extension and in this case the EU would possibly extend until the end of 2020. During the extension possibly stuff like the CU could be talked about and details could be sorted about the future relationship.

She said that the general feeling is the EU would rather tolerate British MPs in the EU parliament - MPs whose country essentially wants to leave the EU, so you could argue they have no place there - than have Britain crash out with no deal.

To be honest that's no big deal and people spoffing BS is what debating, politics and democracy is all about. Don't you think the Spanish and Italians can moan equally as well, if not more? In a way that is the remarkable thing about the EU, in that they have managed to somehow unite countries with such different values and cultures. It will be a shame to leave the EU. 

[Zeb]

On one of Germany's two public-service tv channels tonight their main correspondent in Brussels - she and her colleague in London have been on constant standby for weeks now, surely they must be looking towards a long holiday at the end of it - she said they are hearing 'through the grapevine' that the EU might be looking at a longer extension. Unless either the current WA drags itself across the finish line or a no deal Brexit happens on April 12th. Now, in case the WA will not rise from the dead and the British want to avoid no deal, May (or whoever) will ask for an extension and in this case the EU would possibly extend until the end of 2020. During the extension possibly stuff like the CU could be talked about and details could be sorted about the future relationship.

She said that the general feeling is the EU would rather tolerate British MPs in the EU parliament - MPs whose country essentially wants to leave the EU, so you could argue they have no place there - than have Britain crash out with no deal.

Thanks for that. Matches to a large degree what EU watchers here are saying. They caveat it with fears of May turning up to the next council and trying to push the decision for what to do next onto the EU, as she's tried to do in the past. Good will still there, if stretched, and a willingness to help but we have to help ourselves by at least making sure we're set to hold European elections.

[Machae]

So what are the chances of a 2nd referendum now then?

Surely that's the only sane option besides revoking article 50

[royhendo]

Big problem.  They only know 2 songs.  Nearer my God to thee, and The Sash my father wore.

The LOL interrupted Masterchef. I’m not popular.

[TepidT2O]

I would love an election, but I can't see how she can threaten one, because she just can't call for one now MPs have to vote for it.

Or am I missing something.

Someone has been naughty