Topic: COVID-19:VERIFIED news sources, 0 politishit, 0 CONSPIRACY SHITE

[carling]

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/nhs-vaccinations-and-when-to-have-them/
I'm not sure what it is for going to primary school in the UK but in the US you are required to get a bunch of vaccines to go to school.
Your are required in the US and UK to wear a seat belt, along with a drive the speed limit, it illegal to drink and drive. Those are required for public safety along with your own

Indoor smoking as well.. but I think we're stretching to say wearing a seat belt to drive a car is the same as showing vaccination papers to get into a venue.

[bobadicious]

It's a new risk.  Life has always been full of them.  I can't imagine a future where people won't go and do something in fear of coming near someone who hasn't had the covid vaccine.

Agreed. The vaccine protects the individual, it does not prevent transmission. Surely the fact that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission kills any notion of a vaccine passport dead at least for public health reasons.

[TepidT2O]

Agreed. The vaccine protects the individual, it does not prevent transmission. Surely the fact that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission kills any notion of a vaccine passport dead at least for public health reasons.

It does limit transmission, even if it doesn’t totally prevent it.

[killer-heels]

Agreed. The vaccine protects the individual, it does not prevent transmission. Surely the fact that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission kills any notion of a vaccine passport dead at least for public health reasons.

It does reduce transmission and it also ensures that if you go to an event if you pass the disease on you wont end up with as many dead people.

[bobadicious]

It does limit transmission, even if it doesn’t totally prevent it.

Think that might have been true to alpha variant but not current variants.

[Escorcio]

Think that might have been true to alpha variant but not current variants.

Well technically if you are vaccinated you are less likely to contract it and therefore less likely to pass it on...

[carling]

I presume it was you saying you wouldn't want to make people get vaccinated.

Things like the polio vaccine, MMR, and many others came close to eliminating these diseases. Thanks to the anti-vax nonsense some of them are starting to return.

This is for the safety of the person as much as it is those around them - why shouldn't they be mandatory for people to show they have had it before they can take part in certain "normal" activities.

The vaccine passport is a convenient document that standardises things. Private companies can then legislate whether you need it or not to enter their establishment (with consideration made for those who can't have the vaccine due to medical conditions etc) and so the unvaccinated can either get sorted or do one - shouldn't be put at risk just because some idiot believed what their second cousin's dog's former owner's ex-wife's step brother, who totally worked for Pfizer, said about how they are full of microchips and will also make you sterile because NWO something something

Ultimately it will be down to each country to decide.  And I'm sure countries that are considered 'free' will at most get to that final step of implementing vaccine passports before saying no, this just isn't right.  While more oppressive countries will go ahead with them.  Exactly what's happened so far from what I've seen.

I imagine there'll be a strong correlation with freedom indices - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

Feel like I should mention I'm only talking about passports where you must be vaccinated.  I think ones that allow for negative tests or proof of infection are acceptable for the short term.

[jonnypb]

Think that might have been true to alpha variant but not current variants.

Yes the delta variant ripped up the rule book. Although the vaccines still help to reduce transmission and infection, the delta variant seems to be much more resistant to the vaccines than the older variants which I think is one of the main reasons why they scrapped it he vaccine passports. If a large proportion of vaccinated people can still transmit the virus, then people will have a strong argument against the vaccine passport.

Well technically if you are vaccinated you are less likely to contract it and therefore less likely to pass it on...

That’s true, but looking at that table, those numbers for fully vaccinated people who became infected are huge.

[bobadicious]

Well technically if you are vaccinated you are less likely to contract it and therefore less likely to pass it on...

Maybe although you could also argue vaccinated more likely to transmit as the supressed symptoms mean people are oblivious to the fact they have a high viral load and go about their normal day. Unvaxed more likely to express symptoms which would have most people staying at home and calling in sick. Whos more likely to spread the virus? Probably not a massive difference either way which I think the numbers in the chart above actually show.

[ianburns252]

Ultimately it will be down to each country to decide.  And I'm sure countries that are considered 'free' will at most get to that final step of implementing vaccine passports before saying no, this just isn't right.  While more oppressive countries will go ahead with them.  Exactly what's happened so far from what I've seen.

I imagine there'll be a strong correlation with freedom indices - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

Feel like I should mention I'm only talking about passports where you must be vaccinated.  I think ones that allow for negative tests or proof of infection are acceptable for the short term.

Why isn't it right?

I am asking this genuinely, not trying to catch you out or anything, as I am interested to understand your view of it.

What would your opinion be of individual clubs/bars/restaurants/cinemas etc simply deciding to only admit people who had evidence on the NHS app of having been fully vaccinated? They are obviously restricting access to those unvaccinated and saying, "either get it or do one".

Would it be preferable to take it out of the govt hands and have any "No vaccine, no service" rules implemented as simply part of a companies "dress code".

[Jm55]

Maybe although you could also argue vaccinated more likely to transmit as the supressed symptoms mean people are oblivious to the fact they have a high viral load and go about their normal day. Unvaxed more likely to express symptoms which would have most people staying at home and calling in sick. Whos more likely to spread the virus? Probably not a massive difference either way which I think the numbers in the chart above actually show.

I think you’re being kind to suggest that the kind of individual that refuses a vaccine is going to self-isolate if they develop covid symptoms.

The vaccine has been proven to reduce the risk of contraction and transmission.

[ianburns252]

I think you’re being kind to suggest that the kind of individual that refuses a vaccine is going to self-isolate if they develop covid symptoms.

The vaccine has been proven to reduce the risk of contraction and transmission.

As much as I disagree with those who refuse the vaccine, the ones I do know who are against taking it have isolated and dealt appropriately with the situation when they have inevitably caught it.

The sad thing is that even after catching it one or two refuse to accept that having the vaccine would have been better as they will refer to the fact that people who are vaccinated still catch it.

It boggles the mind that these supposedly intelligent individuals can be so myopic over this

[RainbowFlick]

Why isn't it right?

I am asking this genuinely, not trying to catch you out or anything, as I am interested to understand your view of it.

What would your opinion be of individual clubs/bars/restaurants/cinemas etc simply deciding to only admit people who had evidence on the NHS app of having been fully vaccinated? They are obviously restricting access to those unvaccinated and saying, "either get it or do one".

Would it be preferable to take it out of the govt hands and have any "No vaccine, no service" rules implemented as simply part of a companies "dress code".

how many companies would actually willingly enforce that? in America it seems to have become a 'thing' in certain non-vaccine pass states but there it seems to be a polarising blue vs red issue. concert / festival promoters seem to be the only ones bothering, which is good because i think they acknowledge that they, along with sports events, are the most at risk of potentially being shutdown if things get bad.

i don't really think there's a huge tangible benefit of the pass unless people are testing too, plus the people who won't have the pass will just find ways to skirt around it and/or make staff members' lives hell. it's not like the government would've provided additional grants or support either, or some sort of integrated way to validate yourself for events etc.

it was obvious they wouldn't let it happen imo.

[bobadicious]

I think you’re being kind to suggest that the kind of individual that refuses a vaccine is going to self-isolate if they develop covid symptoms.

The vaccine has been proven to reduce the risk of contraction and transmission.

Genuine question, is this actually the case, what real world data show this to be true?

For example compare last summer cases, largely unvaccinated, vs this summers cases, largely vaccinated.
https://bit.ly/2XbH5dn

Why such an explosion of cases in big vaccine uptake counties like Israel, Iceland and Gibraltar?
https://bit.ly/3ljzP75
https://bit.ly/3k5Gdzz


Surely if the vaccine reduced the risk of contraction and transmission we would not seeing these big upticks in cases?

[rob1966]

The big issue in all this is that those who are unvaccinated will be the ones who are clogging up the hospitals, tying staff and wards up due to their selfish actions/stupidity/whatever and ultimately dying. Sick to death now of seeing these people sat in masks saying "oh I wish I'd had the vaccine now" when they were fucking offered it and refused. Fuck them.

[B0151?]

how many companies would actually willingly enforce that? in America it seems to have become a 'thing' in certain non-vaccine pass states but there it seems to be a polarising blue vs red issue. concert / festival promoters seem to be the only ones bothering, which is good because i think they acknowledge that they, along with sports events, are the most at risk of potentially being shutdown if things get bad.

i don't really think there's a huge tangible benefit of the pass unless people are testing too, plus the people who won't have the pass will just find ways to skirt around it and/or make staff members' lives hell. it's not like the government would've provided additional grants or support either, or some sort of integrated way to validate yourself for events etc.

it was obvious they wouldn't let it happen imo.

I have been to two music events and a festival over the past few months and although they had Covid test/vaccinations as a requirement, in my experience it has been enforced in a pretty reluctant and cursory manner. One event it was not even being enforced and the other 2 checks that amounted to quick glances at your phone screen.

I don't really believe there is a will there to make it happen. With no will from the venues and without strong government support then going off my experiences so far any scheme would be a waste of time considering how easy it would be for unvaccinated people to get in there anyway.

[bobadicious]

The big issue in all this is that those who are unvaccinated will be the ones who are clogging up the hospitals, tying staff and wards up due to their selfish actions/stupidity/whatever and ultimately dying. Sick to death now of seeing these people sat in masks saying "oh I wish I'd had the vaccine now" when they were fucking offered it and refused. Fuck them.

Do you extend that same courtesy to smokers and the obese? Fuck them too?

[BarryCrocker]

Do you extend that same courtesy to smokers and the obese? Fuck them too?

There's a massive space insurance companies are going to surge into. Whether it's life/health cover, employers' liability insurance, etc, they're going to either bump up premiums and/or exclude certain coverage.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

I'm not against anyone getting vaccines.  What did you read?

" But it just doesn't sit right with me making people get vaccinated to live a normal life."

I was 'made' to be vaccinated as a kid. I didn't get a choice. We got told you're all getting these vaccinations and we did. And now we're immune to loads of illnesses that decimated children from years ago.

[Jm55]

Genuine question, is this actually the case, what real world data show this to be true?

For example compare last summer cases, largely unvaccinated, vs this summers cases, largely vaccinated.
https://bit.ly/2XbH5dn

Why such an explosion of cases in big vaccine uptake counties like Israel, Iceland and Gibraltar?
https://bit.ly/3ljzP75
https://bit.ly/3k5Gdzz

Surely if the vaccine reduced the risk of contraction and transmission we would not seeing these big upticks in cases?

Well for one thing there are no restrictions now which wasn’t the case last summer.

The following is a quote from the CDC website ‘ A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others. However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus.’

Now there is a conversation to be had whether the increased transmissibility of the delta variant negates much of the above, which may be the case, but it is nevertheless true that the vaccine reduces transmissibility even if that reduction doesn’t present itself as a tangible benefit because it’s offset by the increased transmissibility of the new variant.

[jonnypb]

There's a massive space insurance companies are going to surge into. Whether it's life/health cover, employers' liability insurance, etc, they're going to either bump up premiums and/or exclude certain coverage.

They've done this for years for things like life insurance when you take out a mortgage.  If you're a smoker your premiums are higher, if you suffer from depression then you will have certain exclusions etc.  I suspect premiums will be higher now since covid for people taking out any new policies, that's why I will never change the cover that I took out when I was 20 as the premiums never rise.

[bobadicious]

" But it just doesn't sit right with me making people get vaccinated to live a normal life."

I was 'made' to be vaccinated as a kid. I didn't get a choice. We got told you're all getting these vaccinations and we did. And now we're immune to loads of illnesses that decimated children from years ago.

Out of interest, what's your stance on kids getting this vaccine, knowing that this isn't an illness that decimates children.

[rob1966]

Do you extend that same courtesy to smokers and the obese? Fuck them too?

Fuck all sympathy for both groups, they know what they are doing.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Out of interest, what's your stance on kids getting this vaccine, knowing that this isn't an illness that decimates children.

As I'm interested in getting this disease over and done with as soon as possible, I'd like to see everyone vaccinated.

Once you have pretty much 100% vaccination then this will obviously help with this version and hopefully will have some effect on future versions.

I think that down the line when we have 'come to terms with it' then we can review, but vaccinations, trying to be sensible and looking after each other seems to be about the only way we still won't be doing this fucking shite in 10 years time.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Fuck all sympathy for both groups, they know what they are doing.

So your view of the obese is that they're stuffing their face with 20 big macs and 500 bars of chocolate a day then I'm guessing?

[Elmo!]

" But it just doesn't sit right with me making people get vaccinated to live a normal life."

I was 'made' to be vaccinated as a kid. I didn't get a choice. We got told you're all getting these vaccinations and we did. And now we're immune to loads of illnesses that decimated children from years ago.

Technically you (or at least your parents) were not forced to get the vaccine. I say this as a child of anti-vaxxer parents who didn't get many of the normal vaccines as a child (luckily they have both relaxed their stance over the years).

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Technically you (or at least your parents) were not forced to get the vaccine. I say this as a child of anti-vaxxer parents who didn't get many of the normal vaccines as a child (luckily they have both relaxed their stance over the years).

I didn't even know there were anti-vaxxers as a kid to be honest (I may be older than you) but in the 60s and 70s there didn'[t seem to be as many dickheads about as there are today.

Looks like those predictions of 'dumbing down stuff' really has taken effect

As a kid you were told that you were getting your vaccinations and you were told you were getting your boosters. You'd have been seen as a total whopper if you didn't get them.

[bobadicious]

As I'm interested in getting this disease over and done with as soon as possible, I'd like to see everyone vaccinated.

Once you have pretty much 100% vaccination then this will obviously help with this version and hopefully will have some effect on future versions.

I think that down the line when we have 'come to terms with it' then we can review, but vaccinations, trying to be sensible and looking after each other seems to be about the only way we still won't be doing this fucking shite in 10 years time.

Is this even possible with animal reservoirs for the virus? We would effectively have to vax all people and all animal vectors with an effective vax for the current variant at the pretty much the same time to eradicate it. Unfortunately I think the zero covid boat has long sailed.

[[new username under construction]]

That's a hell of a stat

In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

[TepidT2O]

Kids from 12-15 will be able to be vaccinated in schools from next Thursday I understand

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Is this even possible with animal reservoirs for the virus? We would effectively have to vax all people and all animal vectors with an effective vax for the current variant at the pretty much the same time to eradicate it. Unfortunately I think the zero covid boat has long sailed.

I'm nowhere near an expert mate. Just been reading quite a lot of stuff on how it can be removed from the 'general' sphere that people will keep catching again and again and again and again into an 'outside' sphere which means that it's generally excluded from the general population as a matter of course.

People CAN catch the Flu and DO catch the Flu, but it isn't an expectation that EVERYEONE will always catch the Flu at some point within the next x period - Flu is actually quite difficult to catch for the general population as it's in this other sphere away from certain infection.

[Elmo!]

I didn't even know there were anti-vaxxers as a kid to be honest (I may be older than you) but in the 60s and 70s there didn'[t seem to be as many dickheads about as there are today.

Looks like those predictions of 'dumbing down stuff' really has taken effect

As a kid you were told that you were getting your vaccinations and you were told you were getting your boosters. You'd have been seen as a total whopper if you didn't get them.

Pretty sure I am quite a bit younger ( ) but in my family it goes back 2 generations - preceding Wakefield by a lot. It has nothing to do with him and more some other quack I have forgotten the name of from when my grandparents were young.

[RainbowFlick]

BoZo to make a statement on winter plans tomorrow.

From the news it seems he's basically saying 'deal with it' and they're losing some of their wider national lockdown powers, but retaining the ability to mandate masks and work from home orders.

It's these sorts of policy decisions he makes that age very quickly like milk.

He's also said booster jabs are already approved thankfully.

[thaddeus]

Kids from 12-15 will be able to be vaccinated in schools from next Thursday I understand

I can't keep up.  It was only 10 days ago that the JCVI were not recommending to give the vaccine to all 12-15 year olds (their statement seemed to be more about fence-sitting though than being against vaccinating 12-15 year olds).

In the microcosm of the UK I think it's a good thing and not before time when compared to most of Western Europe, USA etc.  Globally though it's not a great look with vaccine rates in the most vulnerable so low in most of the developing world.

[jonnypb]

I can't keep up. It was only 10 days ago that the JCVI were not recommending to give the vaccine to all 12-15 year olds (their statement seemed to be more about fence-sitting though than being against vaccinating 12-15 year olds).

In the microcosm of the UK I think it's a good thing and not before time when compared to most of Western Europe, USA etc.  Globally though it's not a great look with vaccine rates in the most vulnerable so low in most of the developing world.

Certainly the majority of kids in school with mine have said they no longer want it.  Major fuck up releasing that statement, the Government and JCVI certainly weren't working together on this one.

[RainbowFlick]

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2021/09/13/liverpool-announces-world-leading-end-to-end-pandemic-institute/

Liverpool is to headquarter the new Pandemic Institute, committed to helping the world prevent, prepare, and respond more effectively to pandemics.



pretty cool 

[rob1966]

So your view of the obese is that they're stuffing their face with 20 big macs and 500 bars of chocolate a day then I'm guessing?

Mate, I was once 19 st, I know full fucking well how I got that heavy, eating too much fucking shite and being a lazy c*nt. Amazingly, when I went on a sensible diet and got off my arse and exercised, I lost 4 stone in 4 months.

I understand that there are medical conditions that cause weight issues, but for most, its shit diet and no exercise.

[bobadicious]

That's a hell of a stat

In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19); 640 occurred in people who were fully vaccinated, which includes people who had been infected before they were vaccinated.

Most people were still unvaxxinated between those periods though.

https://bit.ly/391shAb

Coupled with big surge at start of that period so defacto most people who died were unvaccinated because most people were unvaccinated at that time.

https://bit.ly/3z7ZS6e

[Wabaloolah]

Well for one thing there are no restrictions now which wasn’t the case last summer.

The following is a quote from the CDC website ‘ A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna) are less likely than unvaccinated persons to acquire SARS-CoV-2 or to transmit it to others. However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 breakthrough infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus.’

Now there is a conversation to be had whether the increased transmissibility of the delta variant negates much of the above, which may be the case, but it is nevertheless true that the vaccine reduces transmissibility even if that reduction doesn’t present itself as a tangible benefit because it’s offset by the increased transmissibility of the new variant.

That fits in with my experience too, out of 22 of us that went to Torquay over the Bank Holiday weekend, 7 of us came back with CoVid.  Only one of those had the Pfizer vaccine and his symptoms were relatively mild, the other 6 had the AZ one and three of those were "rough as old boots" (including one who had to visit hospital but released quickly).


Still 7 breakthrough infections though

[Wabaloolah]

BoZo to make a statement on winter plans tomorrow.

From the news it seems he's basically saying 'deal with it' and they're losing some of their wider national lockdown powers, but retaining the ability to mandate masks and work from home orders.

It's these sorts of policy decisions he makes that age very quickly like milk.

He's also said booster jabs are already approved thankfully.

I can certainly see WFH orders taking place for the winter months, makes perfect sense too.  Not pleasant at the best of times sitting next to a snotty nosed individual coughing and sneezing let alone with the pandemic still running rife throughout the country!