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Tory Christmas Party

Nothing like a good old knees up!
They should apologise and come clean
Johnson should resign
The front bench should resign
The entire party should resign
The entire party should be put in an Elon Musk rocket and fired off to jupiter with 2 packets of hula hoops and a pot noodle
I LOVE cheese!

Author Topic: Doesn't matter who you vote for as long as it's for the right reasons!  (Read 1157303 times)

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16960 on: April 17, 2021, 01:42:27 pm »


ha ha.

It reminds me of a story I read recently (where? God knows) of a Chinese (possibly Russian) bloke who was applying for Irish citizenship and, in a burst a patriotic enthusiasm, filled out the forms in Gaelic. The Irish Home Office sent them back and said they didn't understand the language, could he do them again in English!
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16961 on: April 17, 2021, 02:21:20 pm »
Really dislike the word gammon.  It’s as bad as woke or Karen...

Can we not use it?  It’s reductive.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16962 on: April 17, 2021, 05:28:38 pm »
Those who identify themselves principally as social conservatives are what we'd call right wing cranks. Trumpists and their like, who get their kicks from owning the libs. They will never be satisfied with anything that might satisfy those who are liberals.

But what about those who are primarily interested in the economic left, who may be socially liberal or conservative but who don't primarily identify themselves as such?

Again, I don't believe there is a difference between the willingness to compromise of those voters and those you refer to as the "liberal left", yet it seems you, and the type of people who write opinion pieces in the media, only admonish the latter.

Someone who claims to dislike "identity politics" is obviously less likely to identify as a social conservative but it doesn't mean they're not in practice. Labour can make big promises about increasing the tax rate applied to corporations or prioritising British businesses but if Labour is still doing what that voter perceives as "woke" things, then they're still not going to vote for the party. Good luck finding a piece in The Times calling that "purity politics" though.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16963 on: April 17, 2021, 07:31:46 pm »
Again, I don't believe there is a difference between the willingness to compromise of those voters and those you refer to as the "liberal left", yet it seems you, and the type of people who write opinion pieces in the media, only admonish the latter.

Someone who claims to dislike "identity politics" is obviously less likely to identify as a social conservative but it doesn't mean they're not in practice. Labour can make big promises about increasing the tax rate applied to corporations or prioritising British businesses but if Labour is still doing what that voter perceives as "woke" things, then they're still not going to vote for the party. Good luck finding a piece in The Times calling that "purity politics" though.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. My point is that prioritising socio-cultural issues as a party of opposition repels those who do not already identify as liberals. And as we've seen so many times, when there is not a compelling argument for voting Labour, English voters default to Tory. Do you disagree with either of these points?

BTW, I identify as a liberal. I am not repelled by the party of opposition supporting liberal issues. But I can see others, who do not identify as liberals, seeing these antics as reason for not voting Labour, and I despair. I see them talk about issues that are traditional Labour strongpoints, but they see Labour, and specifically the Corbyn wing, as alien, and repugnant.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16964 on: April 17, 2021, 08:46:51 pm »
Not sure what you mean by that to be honest.

Any chance you can break it down for me?

A succinct way to describe every nonsensical thread title you dream up when you’re a few ales deep.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16965 on: April 18, 2021, 09:14:21 am »
I don't know how anyone can blame the 'Corbyn section' of the Labour party for anything much right now, but it's a handy scapegoat.

These are tough times, and the centrists have no solution because they are not addressing the very real issues of right now. Blair did in 1997. Starmer, still very new to politics, is not showing vision at all. And the excuses for the section of the party leading him, have long since worn thin.

He's had an easy ride, and had a good initial six months, now he's got to start motoring. Being a more competent version of the tories isn't go to fly.

And, if he doesn't get ahead, Nandy will be much worse. Hard to see where the next leader comes from to be honest.

And I voted for him, so I am much to blame. :butt

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16966 on: April 18, 2021, 09:22:51 am »
I don't know how anyone can blame the 'Corbyn section' of the Labour party for anything much right now, but it's a handy scapegoat.

These are tough times, and the centrists have no solution because they are not addressing the very real issues of right now. Blair did in 1997. Starmer, still very new to politics, is not showing vision at all. And the excuses for the section of the party leading him, have long since worn thin.

He's had an easy ride, and had a good initial six months, now he's got to start motoring. Being a more competent version of the tories isn't go to fly.

And, if he doesn't get ahead, Nandy will be much worse. Hard to see where the next leader comes from to be honest.

And I voted for him, so I am much to blame. :butt

The Corbyn loyalists are forever trying to frame the debate on the left in such a way that they claim to represent the true left, whereas those who disagree are traitors to the left. This MO should be recognised for what it is.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16967 on: April 18, 2021, 09:39:57 am »
Rachel Reeves and Ed Davey on Marr this morning talking about Tory sleaze/corruption re Cameron, Hancock, Sunek, etc.

So how does Marr respond?  Of course he asks about their respective opinions on ‘sleaze’ (in Marr’s opinion) within Labour and Lib Dem’s, attempting to refer to lobbying activity years (decades) ago.  Of course the guests in exasperation rebuked Marr (no lobbying of government ministers took place back then) and tried to keep focus on current issues.  Marr didn’t like that approach so repeatedly interrupted both when they responded.

But Marr’s not biased.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16968 on: April 18, 2021, 09:43:02 am »
Rachel Reeves and Ed Davey on Marr this morning talking about Tory sleaze/corruption re Cameron, Hancock, Sunek, etc.

So how does Marr respond?  Of course he asks about their respective opinions on ‘sleaze’ (in Marr’s opinion) within Labour and Lib Dem’s, attempting to refer to lobbying activity years (decades) ago.  Of course the guests in exasperation rebuked Marr (no lobbying of government ministers took place back then) and tried to keep focus on current issues.  Marr didn’t like that approach so repeatedly interrupted both when they responded.

But Marr’s not biased.

I think of Marr in the same light as I think of a lot if PL referees - extremely incompetent but not part of a conspiracy.

Marr should have gone years ago.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16969 on: April 18, 2021, 09:44:45 am »
The Corbyn loyalists are forever trying to frame the debate on the left in such a way that they claim to represent the true left, whereas those who disagree are traitors to the left. This MO should be recognised for what it is.

You’re not engaging with the post you’ve quoted at all here. It’s like you’ve got an auto-reply set up.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16970 on: April 18, 2021, 09:52:31 am »
Ed Davey is shite.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16971 on: April 18, 2021, 10:26:45 am »
You’re not engaging with the post you’ve quoted at all here. It’s like you’ve got an auto-reply set up.

I was explaining why it's important to continue highlighting what the Corbyn loyalists are doing, but I suppose it's better for them to claim that the argument doesn't exist, or as previously claimed (and disproved by the YouGov poll), that these Corbyn loyalists don't exist. If people can convince others left of centre that Corbyn loyalists do not exist, or that their modus operandi does not exist, then it's easier for them to push that line of debate.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16972 on: April 18, 2021, 10:26:54 am »
Ed Davey is shite.

SIR Ed Davey to you, churl.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16973 on: April 18, 2021, 11:55:11 am »
I was explaining why it's important to continue highlighting what the Corbyn loyalists are doing, but I suppose it's better for them to claim that the argument doesn't exist, or as previously claimed (and disproved by the YouGov poll), that these Corbyn loyalists don't exist. If people can convince others left of centre that Corbyn loyalists do not exist, or that their modus operandi does not exist, then it's easier for them to push that line of debate.

I know Corbyn loyalists exist, but it’s an ever-decreasing number and nowhere near as consequential to Labour’s electoral prospects as you like to make out. In fact, I would say there is a growing emergence on the left of people who look at those who remain in the party on a “Stay and Fight”/“Reinstate Corbyn” platform and find it quite cringeworthy and counterproductive.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16974 on: April 18, 2021, 06:26:22 pm »
This sleaze & corruption scandal appears to be growing by the hour.  Don’t know how long government can play this one down.  8 separate investigations now ongoing.

Tories would do well to remember it was ‘sleaze’ that contributed towards their defeat in 97.

Comical if government ‘leaks’ against Cameron comes back to bite them.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16975 on: April 19, 2021, 03:47:24 pm »
Really dislike the word gammon.  It’s as bad as woke or Karen...

Can we not use it?  It’s reductive.

It's terribly accurate, though  :-[
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16976 on: April 19, 2021, 05:14:30 pm »
US neo-Nazi group should be banned in UK, home secretary says

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56803647


'Himmler' Patel must be scared of a little competition.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16977 on: April 19, 2021, 05:55:42 pm »
Anyone see Starmer get kicked out of a pub :lmao the landlord did say Labour are flat out failing to his face but the world is a shambles right now
« Last Edit: April 19, 2021, 05:58:54 pm by Studgotelli »

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16978 on: April 19, 2021, 06:00:04 pm »
Anyone see Starmer get kicked out of a pub :lmao the landlord did say Labour are flat out failing to his face but the world is a shambles right now
an anti lockdown type complaining that Starmer didn’t comparing against lockdown.

Not pleasant

I get that he’d had a very tough year though
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16979 on: April 19, 2021, 06:10:59 pm »
an anti lockdown type complaining that Starmer didn’t comparing against lockdown.

Not pleasant

I get that he’d had a very tough year though

He did have a point tbf but yeah society is a big shitshow atm very concerning for the future.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16980 on: April 19, 2021, 06:45:10 pm »
He's a covid denier who was unhappy with Starmer not opposing lockdown restrictions, I don't think he had any point whatsoever.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16981 on: April 19, 2021, 07:42:39 pm »
He's a covid denier who was unhappy with Starmer not opposing lockdown restrictions, I don't think he had any point whatsoever.

Love to know who is coming up with this visits for Starmer after the Jesus House fiasco.

Almost like setting him up to fail.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16982 on: April 19, 2021, 07:58:23 pm »
Love to know who is coming up with this visits for Starmer after the Jesus House fiasco.

Almost like setting him up to fail.
I think he just went down the  high street in Bath
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16983 on: April 19, 2021, 08:57:20 pm »
He's a covid denier who was unhappy with Starmer not opposing lockdown restrictions, I don't think he had any point whatsoever.

Calling Starmer shit is fair points tbf

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16984 on: April 19, 2021, 09:55:58 pm »
Calling Starmer shit is fair points tbf
For not opposing lockdown?

No, it’s absurd
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16985 on: April 19, 2021, 10:09:18 pm »
For not opposing lockdown?

No, it’s absurd

It wasn't a Weatherspoon's by any chance?

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16986 on: April 19, 2021, 10:31:24 pm »
Calling Starmer shit is fair points tbf
Johnsons shit to be fair as well. justifying that opinion by arguing he was wrong to bring in a lock down is probably the worst argument that could be made, same applies to Starmer. if people want to argue Starmer hasn't held the Torys to account then at least make a sound argument.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16987 on: April 20, 2021, 12:09:31 am »
Anyone see Starmer get kicked out of a pub :lmao the landlord did say Labour are flat out failing to his face but the world is a shambles right now

yeah by an inbred Brexit, covid denying dickhead.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16988 on: April 20, 2021, 09:47:32 am »
I think he just went down the  high street in Bath


Apparently it was a pre-arranged visit. Smacks of the landlord setting it up to ambush him, though:

Quote from: Guardian
The visit to the pub had reportedly been arranged in advance with members of its staff. Starmer was campaigning in support of Labour’s West of England metro mayoral candidate, Dan Norris, ahead of the election on 6 May.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/19/pub-landlord-shouts-at-starmer-for-backing-covid-rules



Meanwhile, Bozo was in the same campaign area - and couldn't name the current West of England Mayor... who is a Tory.

https://twitter.com/PA/status/1384135246606585857


And details of yet another PPE contract awarded to a Tory crony - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56667960

This one was only revealed due to an admin error after the corrupt Tories had sought to hide the connection.

That this corrupt government is refusing to reveal all the companies it put on its 'fast track' PPE supply list (presumably to hide the vast scale of corruption and nepotism) is a national scandal.

Yet it gains zero traction with the electorate.

And, of course, the hapless Frank Spencer figure with the red rosette can always be relied on to get involved in some tragi-comic episode to grab the headlines and take attention away.
A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16989 on: April 20, 2021, 11:38:42 am »
Narrative from some around Starmer is pretty funny. Thought he handled it well and came out of it looking even better. Know that's not a fashionable take in some quarters though. To be fair, I thought the bloke Prescott lamped deserved it too.

-------

Polling from Wales is absolutely wild. Drakeford could be the most successful Welsh Labour leader since devolution or the least depending on which poll you take. Gives some idea of how turbulent things are. Latest is Opinium for Sky.



Sky's Sam Coates breaking it down a bit: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1384454801954512897

If that poll holds then it'd likely be a Lab/Lib Dem coalition government again.

Mad extremes showing up nationally too eg the Survation poll which got lost the other day in the excitement of the Yougov one.

edit: Survation's Chris Curtis confirming that 11% of Welsh Tory voters in 2019 are currently saying they'll be voting Labour this time round. Which would be vindication for Welsh and national Labour if it holds true.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 11:48:23 am by Zeb »
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16990 on: April 20, 2021, 12:10:01 pm »
Narrative from some around Starmer is pretty funny. Thought he handled it well and came out of it looking even better. Know that's not a fashionable take in some quarters though. To be fair, I thought the bloke Prescott lamped deserved it too.



If Starmer would have lamped him, I'd have expected a polls boost for him. One of his problems is that he comes across as a drip.

But the whole episode just smacks of haplessness, and is sadly not isolated.

I remember Gordon Brown having a popularity surge after taking over as PM as he came across as more 'Prime Ministerial' but then choosing not to have a snap GE in autumn 2007. Soon after that, he seemed to develop the 'reverse Midas touch' and everything he touched/got involved in turned to shit. His image went from 'competent, workmanlike, stoic' to 'clumsy, moody, awkward' and he never recovered.

That autumn 07 decision was actually a huge sliding doors moment. He'd almost certainly have won, albeit with a reduced (but still very workable) majority. He'd have been able to set the agenda for the post-GFC period (no austerity? instead a stimulus package?) and, riding a wave of optimism from the 2012 Olympics, potentially had a decent autumn 2012 GE.
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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16991 on: April 20, 2021, 12:16:36 pm »

If Starmer would have lamped him, I'd have expected a polls boost for him. One of his problems is that he comes across as a drip.

But the whole episode just smacks of haplessness, and is sadly not isolated.

I remember Gordon Brown having a popularity surge after taking over as PM as he came across as more 'Prime Ministerial' but then choosing not to have a snap GE in autumn 2007. Soon after that, he seemed to develop the 'reverse Midas touch' and everything he touched/got involved in turned to shit. His image went from 'competent, workmanlike, stoic' to 'clumsy, moody, awkward' and he never recovered.

That autumn 07 decision was actually a huge sliding doors moment. He'd almost certainly have won, albeit with a reduced (but still very workable) majority. He'd have been able to set the agenda for the post-GFC period (no austerity? instead a stimulus package?) and, riding a wave of optimism from the 2012 Olympics, potentially had a decent autumn 2012 GE.

Should hear the Brownites about 2007, I mean the proper ones not the more recent love-in for him.

Honestly didn't see Starmer looking like a drip. He politely gave a ranting covid weirdo his glasses back and then made a couple of jokes about the whole thing while avoiding using his position to punch down about it.

Did get one of my Whatsapp groups reminiscing about walkabouts and public events 'gone wrong'. There was a Labour politician who used to campaign with a plant in the audience. Student being paid to wear a Tory rosette and shout some abuse, politician would put him down, audience applause, hearts and minds won kind of thing. Only one time they tried it, local Labour activists weren't in on it and got really pissed off with the student and legged him. Politician was left trying to calm them down running after them shouting 'Stop! Stop! He's part of my act!'.
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And your money will have bought you nothing."

Offline Sangria

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16992 on: April 20, 2021, 02:41:33 pm »
Apparently it was a pre-arranged visit. Smacks of the landlord setting it up to ambush him, though:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/19/pub-landlord-shouts-at-starmer-for-backing-covid-rules

Apparently the pub is co-owned, and the other owner distanced himself from this incident, saying that the other guy's reactions do not represent the views of the pub.
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http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16993 on: April 20, 2021, 02:43:24 pm »
Should hear the Brownites about 2007, I mean the proper ones not the more recent love-in for him.

Honestly didn't see Starmer looking like a drip. He politely gave a ranting covid weirdo his glasses back and then made a couple of jokes about the whole thing while avoiding using his position to punch down about it.

Did get one of my Whatsapp groups reminiscing about walkabouts and public events 'gone wrong'. There was a Labour politician who used to campaign with a plant in the audience. Student being paid to wear a Tory rosette and shout some abuse, politician would put him down, audience applause, hearts and minds won kind of thing. Only one time they tried it, local Labour activists weren't in on it and got really pissed off with the student and legged him. Politician was left trying to calm them down running after them shouting 'Stop! Stop! He's part of my act!'.

One of my favourite politician moments was when John Major set himself up on a literal soapbox against a hostile audience. Now that was worthy of respect.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16994 on: April 20, 2021, 04:51:03 pm »
One of my favourite politician moments was when John Major set himself up on a literal soapbox against a hostile audience. Now that was worthy of respect.

Certainly helped him create the impression he wanted, in spite of the ridicule at the time.

---

Guardian's Jonn Elledge has discovered the datasets Lisa Nandy and the soft left have been looking at for a few years: https://jonn.substack.com/p/its-the-demographics-stupid

Quote
This demographic shift, I suspect, can be explained by changes in the labour market. Since 1981, the British economy has seen declines in the number of manufacturing and resource extraction jobs (which are based all over the place, because factories take up a lot of space and you can only put mines where the coal is). It’s also seen an increase in the number of service jobs (which, at the higher ends in sectors like law and finance, tend to cluster in big cities). Over the same period, we’ve seen a big increase in the share of the population going to university, which means a big increase in the share of the population leaving their home towns at 18, moving to London at 21, then never moving home.

Roll the tape forward a couple of decades and you get the situation we’re in now – where Labour is piling up more and more votes in safe seats like Manchester Central or Hackney South, but solid Labour towns are turning Tory because they’re increasingly dominated by older people who, the data suggests, are more likely to vote Conservative.

Hopefully part of a broader conversation the left needs to have, and not just with itself.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 04:53:01 pm by Zeb »
"And the voices of the standing Kop still whispering in the wind will salute the wee Scots redman and he will still walk on.
And your money will have bought you nothing."

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16995 on: April 21, 2021, 07:36:57 am »
So another £2.6m pissed away by government as it announces planned ‘presidential style’ briefings are now scrapped.  Spare change I guess for government.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16996 on: April 21, 2021, 08:14:18 am »
Certainly helped him create the impression he wanted, in spite of the ridicule at the time.

---

Guardian's Jonn Elledge has discovered the datasets Lisa Nandy and the soft left have been looking at for a few years: https://jonn.substack.com/p/its-the-demographics-stupid

Hopefully part of a broader conversation the left needs to have, and not just with itself.
The left have known about this for years, but they don't care. Its been known in Labour circles this was the case.

There was a good article earlier this month in the economist.
https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/04/03/the-truth-behind-the-tories-northern-strongholds

Spoiler
Michael finn, the design director of Barratt Developments, Britain’s biggest home builder, does not like the term “estates”. It sounds “very 1960s and very concrete”, he says. “We build places.” That is not the only change. Barratt homes come with more storage space than they used to, he explains, as people simply own more stuff. They are fitted with heating systems controlled by a mobile phone and lots of plug sockets for gadgets. Kitchens with serving-hatches are long gone; now families cook in an open-plan room, with French doors leading to the garden. On a Sunday afternoon the cul-de-sacs of Pegswood, a village that is home to one such “place”, are filled with children playing. The back gardens contain trampolines and football nets; the garages contain gyms; the driveways contain Kia Sportages, Nissan Qashqais and other mid-range suvs.

Political safarists seeking to understand Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s government often head to Blyth in Northumberland, ten miles from Pegswood. In December 2019 the town voted Conservative for the first time since the 1930s. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson flipped four dozen more seats across Wales, the Midlands and the north of England, granting him a big majority and unbuckling the Labour Party from its former heartlands. The so-called “Red Wall” they comprise has become a synonym for towns fallen on hard times and a working class “left behind” by a metropolitan elite, personified by Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn and anti-Brexit warriors. Politicians from all parties scramble for remedies to these problems, with residents set to deliver their judgment at local elections in May.


But the dilapidated high streets of former industrial towns, which are sometimes compared to the American rustbelt, are only half the story of Mr Johnson’s new domain. For they are often surrounded by gleaming new suburbs: a British counterpart to the American dream, where a couple on a modest income can own a home and two cars and raise a family. “The Tories didn’t win the poorest bits of England,” says a Labour shadow cabinet member. “They took a load of places where, frankly, life is pretty good, and it is more surprising that they were still voting Labour before.”

As young professionals priced out of big cities are well aware, Britain does not build enough homes. But some parts of the country have done better than others. The north and the Midlands have accounted for a rising share of housing investment over the past two decades, with big builders such as Barratt, Persimmon and Taylor Wimpey responsible for much of the work. The drive from Pegswood to Cramlington, a nearby village, passes seven developments, complete and in progress, advertised by yellow signs at each roundabout.

These signs also herald a political transformation. The south-east of Northumberland was coal country, and voted Labour. Although Pegswood’s own colliery closed in 1968, mining remained the main source of local employment until the early 1990s. But in local elections in 2017 the Conservatives took control of the county council. At the general election two years later, as well as taking Blyth Valley, which encompasses Cramlington, they cut Labour’s majority from over 10,000 to under 900 in Wansbeck, which encompasses Pegswood.


The constituencies that make up the “Red Wall” are poorer than the rest of Britain, and as elsewhere, productivity and wage growth have been weak. But money goes a lot further here: these seats have some of the lowest housing costs in the country, and a greater share of home owners (see chart). The pit at Pegswood is now a park, adjoined by new suburbs, and three-bedroom homes at the half-constructed development start at just £194,995 ($268,176). They can be bought with a 5% deposit thanks to “Help to Buy”, a government subsidy scheme.

In Cramlington, Richard, who works in sales, earns around £28,000 a year and his partner, a part-time administrative assistant, earns £12,000. That is enough for a four-bed house and two cars. “If I’d moved to London and got a graduate job, I’d probably be renting a shitty flat and I doubt I’d have two kids,” he says.

The Conservative Party has long believed its success lies in home ownership. Margaret Thatcher was a friend of Lawrie Barratt, Barratt’s founder, and moved to one of his homes after leaving office. Robert Hayward, a Conservative peer and psephologist, argues that developments like those found in Northumberland have played an underappreciated role in British politics. David Cameron’s majority, he reckons, was won on the back of seats filled with such places across Warwickshire, Staffordshire and Derbyshire. Similar areas in the Midlands and the North—where mines and factories have been replaced by business parks, light industry and Amazon delivery hubs—swung Tory in the decade that followed. Mr Johnson recently angered office workers by suggesting they have been slacking while working from home during the pandemic, but many residents in Cramlington share that suspicion. “It’s not a real job if you can do it in your pyjamas,” says one home owner.

Both parties are hunting for big ideas that will allow them to hold (or win back) these seats. They include “levelling up” the British economy, delivering the opportunities of post-Brexit “global Britain” and unleashing a culture war over statues and flags. Yet Barratt residents have less lofty concerns. Lord Hayward says the typical inhabitant works in the private sector and relies on state services, like schools and hospitals, but not state welfare. Education funding is one of the few bits of national politics that residents in Cramlington bring up on the doorstep; Mr Johnson immediately increased it on becoming prime minister in 2019.

Motoring matters, too. Voters in the “Red Wall” are more likely to commute by car than anywhere else in Britain (see chart). The new developments have sprung up along motorways. Most homes come with at least two car-parking spaces, although families with teenagers may own three or four. All this helps explain why fuel duty has been frozen for a decade, to the dismay of environmental campaigners and Treasury officials.

There is an egalitarianism to Barratt Britain. Accountants, teachers, sales reps, plasterers and driving instructors live on the same street, and the smaller choice of pubs and restaurants means they socialise together, too. As long as mortgages remain affordable and petrol is cheap, it is not a place that worries much about politics. That is a boon for the government, and a problem for Labour. “When you knock on the door of a big new house,” asks a shadow minister, “how do you tell the people living there that the country is going wrong?”
[close]
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Offline Sangria

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16997 on: April 21, 2021, 09:01:35 am »
The left have known about this for years, but they don't care. Its been known in Labour circles this was the case.

There was a good article earlier this month in the economist.
https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/04/03/the-truth-behind-the-tories-northern-strongholds

Spoiler
Michael finn, the design director of Barratt Developments, Britain’s biggest home builder, does not like the term “estates”. It sounds “very 1960s and very concrete”, he says. “We build places.” That is not the only change. Barratt homes come with more storage space than they used to, he explains, as people simply own more stuff. They are fitted with heating systems controlled by a mobile phone and lots of plug sockets for gadgets. Kitchens with serving-hatches are long gone; now families cook in an open-plan room, with French doors leading to the garden. On a Sunday afternoon the cul-de-sacs of Pegswood, a village that is home to one such “place”, are filled with children playing. The back gardens contain trampolines and football nets; the garages contain gyms; the driveways contain Kia Sportages, Nissan Qashqais and other mid-range suvs.

Political safarists seeking to understand Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s government often head to Blyth in Northumberland, ten miles from Pegswood. In December 2019 the town voted Conservative for the first time since the 1930s. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson flipped four dozen more seats across Wales, the Midlands and the north of England, granting him a big majority and unbuckling the Labour Party from its former heartlands. The so-called “Red Wall” they comprise has become a synonym for towns fallen on hard times and a working class “left behind” by a metropolitan elite, personified by Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn and anti-Brexit warriors. Politicians from all parties scramble for remedies to these problems, with residents set to deliver their judgment at local elections in May.


But the dilapidated high streets of former industrial towns, which are sometimes compared to the American rustbelt, are only half the story of Mr Johnson’s new domain. For they are often surrounded by gleaming new suburbs: a British counterpart to the American dream, where a couple on a modest income can own a home and two cars and raise a family. “The Tories didn’t win the poorest bits of England,” says a Labour shadow cabinet member. “They took a load of places where, frankly, life is pretty good, and it is more surprising that they were still voting Labour before.”

As young professionals priced out of big cities are well aware, Britain does not build enough homes. But some parts of the country have done better than others. The north and the Midlands have accounted for a rising share of housing investment over the past two decades, with big builders such as Barratt, Persimmon and Taylor Wimpey responsible for much of the work. The drive from Pegswood to Cramlington, a nearby village, passes seven developments, complete and in progress, advertised by yellow signs at each roundabout.

These signs also herald a political transformation. The south-east of Northumberland was coal country, and voted Labour. Although Pegswood’s own colliery closed in 1968, mining remained the main source of local employment until the early 1990s. But in local elections in 2017 the Conservatives took control of the county council. At the general election two years later, as well as taking Blyth Valley, which encompasses Cramlington, they cut Labour’s majority from over 10,000 to under 900 in Wansbeck, which encompasses Pegswood.


The constituencies that make up the “Red Wall” are poorer than the rest of Britain, and as elsewhere, productivity and wage growth have been weak. But money goes a lot further here: these seats have some of the lowest housing costs in the country, and a greater share of home owners (see chart). The pit at Pegswood is now a park, adjoined by new suburbs, and three-bedroom homes at the half-constructed development start at just £194,995 ($268,176). They can be bought with a 5% deposit thanks to “Help to Buy”, a government subsidy scheme.

In Cramlington, Richard, who works in sales, earns around £28,000 a year and his partner, a part-time administrative assistant, earns £12,000. That is enough for a four-bed house and two cars. “If I’d moved to London and got a graduate job, I’d probably be renting a shitty flat and I doubt I’d have two kids,” he says.

The Conservative Party has long believed its success lies in home ownership. Margaret Thatcher was a friend of Lawrie Barratt, Barratt’s founder, and moved to one of his homes after leaving office. Robert Hayward, a Conservative peer and psephologist, argues that developments like those found in Northumberland have played an underappreciated role in British politics. David Cameron’s majority, he reckons, was won on the back of seats filled with such places across Warwickshire, Staffordshire and Derbyshire. Similar areas in the Midlands and the North—where mines and factories have been replaced by business parks, light industry and Amazon delivery hubs—swung Tory in the decade that followed. Mr Johnson recently angered office workers by suggesting they have been slacking while working from home during the pandemic, but many residents in Cramlington share that suspicion. “It’s not a real job if you can do it in your pyjamas,” says one home owner.

Both parties are hunting for big ideas that will allow them to hold (or win back) these seats. They include “levelling up” the British economy, delivering the opportunities of post-Brexit “global Britain” and unleashing a culture war over statues and flags. Yet Barratt residents have less lofty concerns. Lord Hayward says the typical inhabitant works in the private sector and relies on state services, like schools and hospitals, but not state welfare. Education funding is one of the few bits of national politics that residents in Cramlington bring up on the doorstep; Mr Johnson immediately increased it on becoming prime minister in 2019.

Motoring matters, too. Voters in the “Red Wall” are more likely to commute by car than anywhere else in Britain (see chart). The new developments have sprung up along motorways. Most homes come with at least two car-parking spaces, although families with teenagers may own three or four. All this helps explain why fuel duty has been frozen for a decade, to the dismay of environmental campaigners and Treasury officials.

There is an egalitarianism to Barratt Britain. Accountants, teachers, sales reps, plasterers and driving instructors live on the same street, and the smaller choice of pubs and restaurants means they socialise together, too. As long as mortgages remain affordable and petrol is cheap, it is not a place that worries much about politics. That is a boon for the government, and a problem for Labour. “When you knock on the door of a big new house,” asks a shadow minister, “how do you tell the people living there that the country is going wrong?”
[close]

That's why Labour needs to stop talking about class and unions, and start talking about communities and localising and greenifying economies. Labour needs to stop looking for votes to oppose the Tories, and start looking for a national idea that includes current Tory voters.
"i just dont think (Lucas is) that type of player that Kenny wants"
Vidocq, 20 January 2011

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=267148.msg8032258#msg8032258

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16998 on: April 21, 2021, 12:31:44 pm »
PMQs is pointless again.  Johnson just evading questions and the speaker not holding him to account.

A direct question about whether the government will commit to the continued funding of the global Polio vaccination scheme that was answered by Johnson listing how much money the UK has invested historically.  No attempt to answer the actual question.  Next question.

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Re: Isn’t this just the politics thread? Why so many name changes?
« Reply #16999 on: April 21, 2021, 05:08:31 pm »
The left have known about this for years, but they don't care. Its been known in Labour circles this was the case.

There was a good article earlier this month in the economist.
https://www.economist.com/britain/2021/04/03/the-truth-behind-the-tories-northern-strongholds

Spoiler
Michael finn, the design director of Barratt Developments, Britain’s biggest home builder, does not like the term “estates”. It sounds “very 1960s and very concrete”, he says. “We build places.” That is not the only change. Barratt homes come with more storage space than they used to, he explains, as people simply own more stuff. They are fitted with heating systems controlled by a mobile phone and lots of plug sockets for gadgets. Kitchens with serving-hatches are long gone; now families cook in an open-plan room, with French doors leading to the garden. On a Sunday afternoon the cul-de-sacs of Pegswood, a village that is home to one such “place”, are filled with children playing. The back gardens contain trampolines and football nets; the garages contain gyms; the driveways contain Kia Sportages, Nissan Qashqais and other mid-range suvs.

Political safarists seeking to understand Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson’s government often head to Blyth in Northumberland, ten miles from Pegswood. In December 2019 the town voted Conservative for the first time since the 1930s. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson flipped four dozen more seats across Wales, the Midlands and the north of England, granting him a big majority and unbuckling the Labour Party from its former heartlands. The so-called “Red Wall” they comprise has become a synonym for towns fallen on hard times and a working class “left behind” by a metropolitan elite, personified by Labour’s Jeremy Corbyn and anti-Brexit warriors. Politicians from all parties scramble for remedies to these problems, with residents set to deliver their judgment at local elections in May.


But the dilapidated high streets of former industrial towns, which are sometimes compared to the American rustbelt, are only half the story of Mr Johnson’s new domain. For they are often surrounded by gleaming new suburbs: a British counterpart to the American dream, where a couple on a modest income can own a home and two cars and raise a family. “The Tories didn’t win the poorest bits of England,” says a Labour shadow cabinet member. “They took a load of places where, frankly, life is pretty good, and it is more surprising that they were still voting Labour before.”

As young professionals priced out of big cities are well aware, Britain does not build enough homes. But some parts of the country have done better than others. The north and the Midlands have accounted for a rising share of housing investment over the past two decades, with big builders such as Barratt, Persimmon and Taylor Wimpey responsible for much of the work. The drive from Pegswood to Cramlington, a nearby village, passes seven developments, complete and in progress, advertised by yellow signs at each roundabout.

These signs also herald a political transformation. The south-east of Northumberland was coal country, and voted Labour. Although Pegswood’s own colliery closed in 1968, mining remained the main source of local employment until the early 1990s. But in local elections in 2017 the Conservatives took control of the county council. At the general election two years later, as well as taking Blyth Valley, which encompasses Cramlington, they cut Labour’s majority from over 10,000 to under 900 in Wansbeck, which encompasses Pegswood.


The constituencies that make up the “Red Wall” are poorer than the rest of Britain, and as elsewhere, productivity and wage growth have been weak. But money goes a lot further here: these seats have some of the lowest housing costs in the country, and a greater share of home owners (see chart). The pit at Pegswood is now a park, adjoined by new suburbs, and three-bedroom homes at the half-constructed development start at just £194,995 ($268,176). They can be bought with a 5% deposit thanks to “Help to Buy”, a government subsidy scheme.

In Cramlington, Richard, who works in sales, earns around £28,000 a year and his partner, a part-time administrative assistant, earns £12,000. That is enough for a four-bed house and two cars. “If I’d moved to London and got a graduate job, I’d probably be renting a shitty flat and I doubt I’d have two kids,” he says.

The Conservative Party has long believed its success lies in home ownership. Margaret Thatcher was a friend of Lawrie Barratt, Barratt’s founder, and moved to one of his homes after leaving office. Robert Hayward, a Conservative peer and psephologist, argues that developments like those found in Northumberland have played an underappreciated role in British politics. David Cameron’s majority, he reckons, was won on the back of seats filled with such places across Warwickshire, Staffordshire and Derbyshire. Similar areas in the Midlands and the North—where mines and factories have been replaced by business parks, light industry and Amazon delivery hubs—swung Tory in the decade that followed. Mr Johnson recently angered office workers by suggesting they have been slacking while working from home during the pandemic, but many residents in Cramlington share that suspicion. “It’s not a real job if you can do it in your pyjamas,” says one home owner.

Both parties are hunting for big ideas that will allow them to hold (or win back) these seats. They include “levelling up” the British economy, delivering the opportunities of post-Brexit “global Britain” and unleashing a culture war over statues and flags. Yet Barratt residents have less lofty concerns. Lord Hayward says the typical inhabitant works in the private sector and relies on state services, like schools and hospitals, but not state welfare. Education funding is one of the few bits of national politics that residents in Cramlington bring up on the doorstep; Mr Johnson immediately increased it on becoming prime minister in 2019.

Motoring matters, too. Voters in the “Red Wall” are more likely to commute by car than anywhere else in Britain (see chart). The new developments have sprung up along motorways. Most homes come with at least two car-parking spaces, although families with teenagers may own three or four. All this helps explain why fuel duty has been frozen for a decade, to the dismay of environmental campaigners and Treasury officials.

There is an egalitarianism to Barratt Britain. Accountants, teachers, sales reps, plasterers and driving instructors live on the same street, and the smaller choice of pubs and restaurants means they socialise together, too. As long as mortgages remain affordable and petrol is cheap, it is not a place that worries much about politics. That is a boon for the government, and a problem for Labour. “When you knock on the door of a big new house,” asks a shadow minister, “how do you tell the people living there that the country is going wrong?”
[close]


There's so many competing theories abounding about the demise of Labour.

We're told that a middle-class metropolitan urban elite alienate red wall voters, yet that article is talking of a suburban middle-class in the 'red wall' areas switching to Tory (and some moronic Labour Shadow Minister saying "it is more surprising that they were still voting Labour before.”)

In fact, the whole article reads more like a puff-piece produced by Conservative Home: "Education funding is one of the few bits of national politics that residents in Cramlington bring up on the doorstep; Mr Johnson immediately increased it on becoming prime minister in 2019."

WTF?


A Tory, a worker and an immigrant are sat round a table. There's a plate of 10 biscuits in the middle. The Tory takes 9 then turns to the worker and says "that immigrant is trying to steal your biscuit"