Topic: Mohamed Salah - Best in the World *

[Mister Flip Flop]

On another note, I think that Salah could finish the season on more goals for the club than Owen. He is on four goals already, so a 33-goal season, perhaps?

1. Ian Rush – 346
2. Roger Hunt – 285
3. Gordon Hodgson – 241
4. Billy Liddell – 228
5. Steven Gerrard – 186
6. Robbie Fowler – 183
7. Kenny Dalglish – 172
8. Michael Owen – 158
9. Harry Chambers – 151
10. Mohamed Salah – 130
11. Sam Raybould – 130
12. Jack Parkinson – 128
13. Dick Forshaw – 123
14. Ian St John – 118
15. Jack Balmer – 110
16. John Barnes – 108
17. Sadio Mane – 100
18. Kevin Keegan – 100

https://www.thisisanfield.com/2021/09/the-18-players-who-have-scored-100-or-more-goals-for-liverpool/

Impressive, Ian Rush though wow what a machine that guy was.

[macmanamanaman]

Considering how much stick he gets on here, didn't know that Hodgson was number 3 on that list. Fairplay, owl.

[macmanamanaman]

Thought this was the Salah thread.

Its a team game

[NarutoReds]

One of them is Salah. ** Carragher has named three players United forward, Cristiano Ronaldo will challenge for this seasons golden boot.

    

Carragher: "I am certain Ronaldo will challenge Harry Kane, Mohamed Salah and Romelu Lukaku for this season's golden boot."

"As we saw last weekend against Newcastle United on his second United debut, Ronaldo's mere presence is a certainty of goals, and his comeback has transformed the mood at his club and raised the profile of English football even more," said Carragher.

  

I really really hope Mo will put aaaalllllll of them in the box!!! At the end of the season. Fuck this shit.

[Fromola]

Ronaldo will score every game (including a glut of penalties which Salah won't get).

Ronaldo these days is basically a goalhanger in a team that is set up to provide him chances all game. He'll top 30 league goals which I doubt anyone else will. Mo has a lot more to offer than just goals.

[Jookie]

Fowler at his peak played in a relatively poor domestic competition and 2nd tier European competition. His European and international records are nothing to write home about. The biggest shame is that the injuries cost him (and us) the potential to see him at a higher level, both domestically as PL improved and in CL as Liverpool improved and qualified. I’ll always be grateful for what Fowler gave us  as fans in the 1990’s and early 00’s. But he’s not even in the same conversation as Rush or Salah. I personally think Suarez and Torres were better players. Owen and Fowler is a toss of a coin. Fowler more rounded player, Owen more the big game player for goals.

My final point on this (honestly!). I just wanted to contextualise why I think the PL in the period in the early to the mid 90's was relatively poor compared to the early to mid 1980's.

I've compared the European competition record of English clubs between 1980-1985 and 1993-1998. It's a 5 year period so probably captures any anomalies you might have when comparing specific individual seasons 1980 also marks Ian Rush's debut at Liverpool and 1985 is the last competition with English clubs before the ban. 1993 marks Robbie Fowler's debut and 1998 marks the time of his ACL. Roughly speaking both periods cover the time when the respective players were at their peaks (or close to).

1980-81

European Cup: Forest 1st round, Liverpool Winners

UEFA: Wolves 1R, Manchester United 1R, Ipswich Winners

Cup Winners Cup: West Ham QF

1981-82

European Cup: Liverpool QF, Aston Villa winners

UEFA: WBA 1R, Ipswich 1R, Southampton 2R, Arsenal 2R

Cup Winners Cup: Tottenham SF

1982-83

European Cup: Liverpool QF, Aston Villa QF

UEFA: Arsenal 1R, Manchester United 1R, Ipswich 1R, Southampton 1R

Cup Winners Cup: Tottenham 2R


1983-84

European Cup: Liverpool winners

UEFA: Aston Villa 2R, Watford 3R, Forest SF, Tottenham Winners

Cup Winners Cup: Manchester United SF

1984-85

European Cup: Liverpool runners up

UEFA: Forest 1R, Southampton 1R, QPR 2R, Tottenham QF, Manchester United QF

Cup Winners Cup: Everton winners



1993-94

European Cup: Manchester United 2R

UEFA: Aston Villa 2R, Norwich 3R

Cup Winners Cup: Arsenal Winners

1994-95

European Cup:  Manchester United 3rd in Group Stage

UEFA: Blackburn 1R, Newcastle 2R, Aston Villa 2R

Cup Winners Cup: Chelsea SF, Arsenal Runners Up

1995-96

European Cup: Blackburn 4th in Group Stage

UEFA: Manchester United 1R, Liverpool 2R, Leeds United 2R, Forest QF

Cup Winners Cup: Everton 2R

1996-97

European Cup: Manchester United SF

UEFA: Arsenal 1R, Aston Villa 1R, Newcastle QF

Cup Winners Cup: Liverpool SF

1997-98

European Cup: Newcastle 3rd in Group Stage, Manchester United QF

UEFA: Arsenal 1R, Leicester City 1R, Liverpool 2R, Aston Villa QF

Cup Winners Cup: Chelsea Winners


European Cup

1980-1985 : 3 winners and a runner up

1993-1998 : 1 semi finalist and 1 quarter finalist

UEFA Cup

1980-1985: 2 winners, 1 semi-finalist and 2 quarter finalists

1993-1998: 3 quarter finalists

Cup Winners Cup

1980-1985: 1 winner and 2 semi-finalists

1993-1998: 2 winners, 1 runner up and 2 semi-finalists

Overall

1980-1985:  6 European trophy winning teams, 1 runner up, 3 semi-finalists

1993-1998: 2 European trophy winning teams, 1 runner up,  3 semi-finalists

I think there's a reasonable difference in overall performance. I think it's even more stark when you look at European Cup/Champions League and UEFA Cup performances only. The record for the period between 1993 and 1998 is propped up massively by the Cup Winner Cup performances (2 wins, 1 runner-up and 2 SF). The Cup Winners Cup was unquestionably the weakest competition out of the 3.

I'm not saying this as some auld fella saying it was better in my day. The late 80's and 1990's were my pomp in terms of going the game. I reckon you can count on 1 hand how many home games I missed between about 1985 and 2001. I loved going the game in that period. But taking off any sort of rose tinted glasses, I think it's easy to see that that early to mid 90's period was a poor domestic standard compared to what went before and came after. That doesn't mean every player who played in that era should have an asterisk against their records or performance. But for players who only really performed in that era and did well in domestic completions only then it raises a doubt about their overall ability to deliver at a higher level. Particularly when comparing to players from other eras. That doesn't just go for Robbie Fowler. I genuinely think you can ask the same question about players like Cantona. As transformative as he was, he only really produced the goods in that era and in the PL only.

Back on topic, I think it shows Salah's consistency and quality. He's banging in goals in what is probably the strongest domestic competition in World football and he scores with regularity in the CL. There's no question about his quality or ability to score goals at the highest level. In the same way there wasn't question marks about Ian Rush's ability.

[red1977]

My final point on this (honestly!). I just wanted to contextualise why I think the PL in the period in the early to the mid 90's was relatively poor compared to the early to mid 1980's.

I've compared the European competition record of English clubs between 1980-1985 and 1993-1998. It's a 5 year period so probably captures any anomalies you might have when comparing specific individual seasons 1980 also marks Ian Rush's debut at Liverpool and 1985 is the last competition with English clubs before the ban. 1993 marks Robbie Fowler's debut and 1998 marks the time of his ACL. Roughly speaking both periods cover the time when the respective players were at their peaks (or close to).

1980-81

European Cup: Forest 1st round, Liverpool Winners

UEFA: Wolves 1R, Manchester United 1R, Ipswich Winners

Cup Winners Cup: West Ham QF

1981-82

European Cup: Liverpool QF, Aston Villa winners

UEFA: WBA 1R, Ipswich 1R, Southampton 2R, Arsenal 2R

Cup Winners Cup: Tottenham SF

1982-83

European Cup: Liverpool QF, Aston Villa QF

UEFA: Arsenal 1R, Manchester United 1R, Ipswich 1R, Southampton 1R

Cup Winners Cup: Tottenham 2R


1983-84

European Cup: Liverpool winners

UEFA: Aston Villa 2R, Watford 3R, Forest SF, Tottenham Winners

Cup Winners Cup: Manchester United SF

1984-85

European Cup: Liverpool runners up

UEFA: Forest 1R, Southampton 1R, QPR 2R, Tottenham QF, Manchester United QF

Cup Winners Cup: Everton winners



1993-94

European Cup: Manchester United 2R

UEFA: Aston Villa 2R, Norwich 3R

Cup Winners Cup: Arsenal Winners

1994-95

European Cup:  Manchester United 3rd in Group Stage

UEFA: Blackburn 1R, Newcastle 2R, Aston Villa 2R

Cup Winners Cup: Chelsea SF, Arsenal Runners Up

1995-96

European Cup: Blackburn 4th in Group Stage

UEFA: Manchester United 1R, Liverpool 2R, Leeds United 2R, Forest QF

Cup Winners Cup: Everton 2R

1996-97

European Cup: Manchester United SF

UEFA: Arsenal 1R, Aston Villa 1R, Newcastle QF

Cup Winners Cup: Liverpool SF

1997-98

European Cup: Newcastle 3rd in Group Stage, Manchester United QF

UEFA: Arsenal 1R, Leicester City 1R, Liverpool 2R, Aston Villa QF

Cup Winners Cup: Chelsea Winners


European Cup

1980-1985 : 3 winners and a runner up

1993-1998 : 1 semi finalist and 1 quarter finalist

UEFA Cup

1980-1985: 2 winners, 1 semi-finalist and 2 quarter finalists

1993-1998: 3 quarter finalists

Cup Winners Cup

1980-1985: 1 winner and 2 semi-finalists

1993-1998: 2 winners, 1 runner up and 2 semi-finalists

Overall

1980-1985:  6 European trophy winning teams, 1 runner up, 3 semi-finalists

1993-1998: 2 European trophy winning teams, 1 runner up,  3 semi-finalists

I think there's a reasonable difference in overall performance. I think it's even more stark when you look at European Cup/Champions League and UEFA Cup performances only. The record for the period between 1993 and 1998 is propped up massively by the Cup Winner Cup performances (2 wins, 1 runner-up and 2 SF). The Cup Winners Cup was unquestionably the weakest competition out of the 3.

I'm not saying this as some auld fella saying it was better in my day. The late 80's and 1990's were my pomp in terms of going the game. I reckon you can count on 1 hand how many home games I missed between about 1985 and 2001. I loved going the game in that period. But taking off any sort of rose tinted glasses, I think it's easy to see that that early to mid 90's period was a poor domestic standard compared to what went before and came after. That doesn't mean every player who played in that era should have an asterisk against their records or performance. But for players who only really performed in that era and did well in domestic completions only then it raises a doubt about their overall ability to deliver at a higher level. Particularly when comparing to players from other eras. That doesn't just go for Robbie Fowler. I genuinely think you can ask the same question about players like Cantona. As transformative as he was, he only really produced the goods in that era and in the PL only.

Back on topic, I think it shows Salah's consistency and quality. He's banging in goals in what is probably the strongest domestic competition in World football and he scores with regularity in the CL. There's no question about his quality or ability to score goals at the highest level. In the same way there wasn't question marks about Ian Rush's ability.

Would you say a 20 year old Robbie Fowler would not have the same impact today in the strongest competition in the world as he did back then? For me he does, pure talant. Would Shearer score less now, but players like Kane or Aubameyang can top the goal scoring charts?,. not for me.

It’s not an outright reflection of the quality of the league based on How teams got on in Europe, a knock out competition where anything can happen. Drawing Bayern for example could mean the English champions go out, but Bayern are the only decent team in their league. Was the premier league the best league in Europe in 2005? Debatable right?. Also Rush played in a far far better side which totally dominated the league in the 80s without much of a challenge from other teams in the league. so it gets complicated. You can compare on skill set and ability. The influx of foreign players in the prem era arguably improved the league. Even if in Europe it wasn’t a golden period for the English.

[scatman]

I don't think he's wrong, also Ian Rush has the iconic fabulous moustache so is deservedly our greatest marksman

[Jookie]

Would you say a 20 year old Robbie Fowler would not have the same impact today in the strongest competition in the world as he did back then? For me he does, pure talent.

To say Fowler could have been an elite striker at a higher level is a projection. If you look at the top No.9s around the mid 90's, some of them continued to be elite strikers into the late 90's and early 00's. Some didn't. Shearer was the best of the bunch. I don't think you'll find many people who'll argue that he was the best No.9 in the Premier League in the 1990's (until Henry came along and dominated in 00's). Shearer's record is excellent for years and he continued scoring as the PL got better. Arguably Fowler was the 2nd best No.9 at that point so fair to say he could have continued scoring 20-25 goals a season for many years.

You mention Harry Kane as modern day player. He's a hugely under rated player by many. 223 goals in 342 appearances for Spurs. 40 in 65 in European competition. 41 in 64 in international football.  Fowler in his 1st spell at Liverpool had 171 goals in 330 games. 12 in 38 in European competition and, I think, 5 in 25 at international level. Putting aside quality of the opposition etc.. in terms of goalscoring Kane is demonstrably better. Is Kane better than Shearer? Hard to say. Outside of Henry, I think they are arguably the 2 of the most consistent and best strikers since the PL started. I'd say Rooney and Aguero round out the Top 5 in terms of long term impact. Suarez would be up there if he stayed longer.

I loved Robbie Fowler, despite what I've written in this thread. It's a massive shame and still a blow over 20 years later that he had injuries that curtailed his ability to continue to be the player he was in his early 20's. He was the shining light for us during a time when we were relatively poor. I get why many love him and revere him for what hid did in those 1st 4 seasons. Anyone watching us during that period would feel the same. But there's no concrete evidence that he'd be a consistent scorer at CL level, for example. That's why I'd push back when people say he was as good as Rush and certain other players (including Salah as goalscorer).

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Forbes has him as the 5th highest paid player in the world [Ronaldo,Messi, Neymar and Mbappe ahead of him], $25 annual salary [15 or 16 million on top of that via endorsements]

[Jookie]

$25 annual salary

If true, that's pretty close to the rumoured £400,000 p/w he's earnt under his current contract once bonuses are factored in.

Again, if true it shows the level of bonuses we are giving our players on top of rumoured base salary. If Salah is on, for example, £220,000 p/w base salary then his bonuses would amount to around 9M per annum in this scenario.

Like I said on here a few years back, I think the bonuses for current players are really high and not just tied to winning trophies. That's what I've heard about another Top 6 club and how their bonuses are structured. They'll run in parallel with increased revenues due to on the field progression. It's why the wage bill is high and will remain high even if we don't win trophies but continue to qualify for CL and get to the knockout stages each season. It's why there's not a big surplus of TV and prize money from the success of the last few seasons. Rightly we reward the players extensively for reaching various on the pitch goals (individual and collective).

[redgriffin73]

He's clearly getting a massive bonus every time he takes his shirt off, smart move by his agent.

[PaulF]

He's clearly getting a massive bonus every time he takes his shirt off, smart move by his agent.

Presumably via onlyfans

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Presumably via onlyfans

Lovren is funding it 

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Side note, Iniesta is still making $35 million a year, which is more than Pogba,Hazard and Bale [all who are in the top 10]

[redgriffin73]

Lovren is funding it 

But we're all benefiting

[Dr Stu-Pid]

These may be interesting given the discussion over the last few pages.

Player	Games	Goals	GPG	MPG	%GwG	APG
Rush (1981- 87)	218	139	0.64	140	47%	0.09
Fowler (1993- 97)	140	83	0.59	147	41%	0.12
Salah (2017- 21)	150	99	0.66	127	52%	0.23

Player	Games	Goals	GPG	MPG	%GwG	APG
Rush (1983- 87)	151	98	0.65	138	50%	0.11
Fowler (1994- 97)	112	71	0.63	138	43%	0.15
Salah (2017- 21)	150	99	0.66	127	52%	0.23

Notes

• League games only
• GPG = Goals per Game
• MPG = Minutes per Goal
• %GwG = % of games played where the player scored a goal
• APG = Assists per Game

[red1977]

These may be interesting given the discussion over the last few pages.

Player	Games	Goals	GPG	MPG	%GwG	APG
Rush (1981- 87)	218	139	0.64	140	47%	0.09
Fowler (1993- 97)	140	83	0.59	147	41%	0.12
Salah (2017- 21)	150	99	0.66	127	52%	0.23

Player	Games	Goals	GPG	MPG	%GwG	APG
Rush (1983- 87)	151	98	0.65	138	50%	0.11
Fowler (1994- 97)	112	71	0.63	138	43%	0.15
Salah (2017- 21)	150	99	0.66	127	52%	0.23

Thanks for posting. Salah is phenomenal.

[El Lobo]

They all were, as was Suarez and Torres and Owen.

[Flaccido Dongingo]

I can see the parallels with Henry and Salah, both bought as wingers, and more or less finding a lot more success as strikers by managers that better realised how to best use them.

[iRed]

Please pay this man his money.

[PoetryInMotion]

To say Fowler could have been an elite striker at a higher level is a projection. If you look at the top No.9s around the mid 90's, some of them continued to be elite strikers into the late 90's and early 00's. Some didn't. Shearer was the best of the bunch. I don't think you'll find many people who'll argue that he was the best No.9 in the Premier League in the 1990's (until Henry came along and dominated in 00's). Shearer's record is excellent for years and he continued scoring as the PL got better. Arguably Fowler was the 2nd best No.9 at that point so fair to say he could have continued scoring 20-25 goals a season for many years.

You mention Harry Kane as modern day player. He's a hugely under rated player by many. 223 goals in 342 appearances for Spurs. 40 in 65 in European competition. 41 in 64 in international football.  Fowler in his 1st spell at Liverpool had 171 goals in 330 games. 12 in 38 in European competition and, I think, 5 in 25 at international level. Putting aside quality of the opposition etc.. in terms of goalscoring Kane is demonstrably better. Is Kane better than Shearer? Hard to say. Outside of Henry, I think they are arguably the 2 of the most consistent and best strikers since the PL started. I'd say Rooney and Aguero round out the Top 5 in terms of long term impact. Suarez would be up there if he stayed longer.

I loved Robbie Fowler, despite what I've written in this thread. It's a massive shame and still a blow over 20 years later that he had injuries that curtailed his ability to continue to be the player he was in his early 20's. He was the shining light for us during a time when we were relatively poor. I get why many love him and revere him for what hid did in those 1st 4 seasons. Anyone watching us during that period would feel the same. But there's no concrete evidence that he'd be a consistent scorer at CL level, for example. That's why I'd push back when people say he was as good as Rush and certain other players (including Salah as goalscorer).

Yeah, I agree. Fowler was great and all, but he didn't realize his potential in his career. Someone said you could say the same for Gerrard, but you can't. Look at the individual accolades, it's a massive difference, even if Gerrard didn't win as many trophies as he could. He would've if he had left. Anyway, he made the PFA Team of the Year 8 fucking times.

Anyway, back to Salah - he has this knack of breaking records. Long may it continue.

[Dench57]

They all were, as was Suarez and Torres and Owen.

it's important that we find out which one was most phenomenal though

[red1977]

it's important that we find out which one was most phenomenal though

Salah is the most Phenomenal. Who was the most fantastic though??.

[afc tukrish]

Salah is the most Phenomenal. Who was the most fantastic though??.

Pace phenoms don't count...

[Dr Stu-Pid]

They all were, as was Suarez and Torres and Owen.

Oh go on then...

Player	Games	Goals	GPG	MPG	%GwG	APG
Rush (1981- 87)	218	139	0.64	140	47%	0.09
Fowler (1993- 97)	140	83	0.59	147	41%	0.12
Owen (1997- 04)	216	118	0.55	143	40%	0.14
Torres (2007- 11)	102	65	0.64	121	46%	0.14
Suarez (2011- 14)	110	69	0.63	139	43%	0.25
Salah (2017- 21)	150	99	0.66	127	52%	0.23

Player	Games	Goals	GPG	MPG	%GwG	APG
Rush (1983- 87)	151	98	0.65	138	50%	0.11
Fowler (1994- 97)	112	71	0.63	138	43%	0.15
Owen (2000- 04)	121	70	0.58	133	41%	0.15
Torres (2007- 11)	102	65	0.64	121	46%	0.14
Suarez (2011- 14)	110	69	0.63	139	43%	0.25
Salah (2017- 21)	150	99	0.66	127	52%	0.23

[scatman]

thanks, loved watching them all

[farawayred]

They all had their purple patches. Rushie's was apparently the longest.

[WhereAngelsPlay]

They all had their purple patches. Rushie's was apparently the longest.

Rushie in a Klopp side would be the ultimate,his tracking back and defending from the front was incredible.

[El Lobo]

I think as ever we should probably just be thankful that even during pretty grim times for the club we had some absolutely brilliant players. Fowler, Torres and Suarez particularly suffer from playing for us when we weren't particularly good (or successful). If we'd won one or two titles in the 90s, Fowler for me would be even more highly rated amongst Liverpool fans. Likewise with Torres in the 00s or Suarez in 13/14.

[LallanaInPyjamas]

I can see the parallels with Henry and Salah, both bought as wingers, and more or less finding a lot more success as strikers by managers that better realised how to best use them.

Agree, I said to my mate the other day that Salah is the closest thing to Henry since he left the Prem. Both brilliant ball-carriers (Henry a bit silkier, Salah a bit more ruthless) who thrive on making devastating runs from out to in. I consider Henry to be the greatest player of the Premier League era, but if Salah stays with us for the rest of his career then there's every chance he overtakes him in that regard.

[Jon2lfc]

Oh go on then...

Player	Games	Goals	GPG	MPG	%GwG	APG
Rush (1981- 87)	218	139	0.64	140	47%	0.09
Fowler (1993- 97)	140	83	0.59	147	41%	0.12
Owen (1997- 04)	216	118	0.55	143	40%	0.14
Torres (2007- 11)	102	65	0.64	121	46%	0.14
Suarez (2011- 14)	110	69	0.63	139	43%	0.25
Salah (2017- 21)	150	99	0.66	127	52%	0.23

Player	Games	Goals	GPG	MPG	%GwG	APG
Rush (1983- 87)	151	98	0.65	138	50%	0.11
Fowler (1994- 97)	112	71	0.63	138	43%	0.15
Owen (2000- 04)	121	70	0.58	133	41%	0.15
Torres (2007- 11)	102	65	0.64	121	46%	0.14
Suarez (2011- 14)	110	69	0.63	139	43%	0.25
Salah (2017- 21)	150	99	0.66	127	52%	0.23

What do the last 3 columns mean?

[newterp]

MPG is miles per gallon for sure.

[Jon2lfc]

MPG is miles per gallon for sure.

don't be silly
it could be minutes per game

[Boaty McBoatface]

    Notes

        League games only
        GPG = Goals per Game
        MPG = Minutes per Goal
        %GwG = % of games played where the player scored a goal
        APG = Assists per Game

[Samie]

100 PREMIER LEAGUE GOALS FOR US!

[sinnermichael]

1 game faster than Roger Hunt aswell.

Unbelievable player.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

Should have had a hat-trick today

[farawayred]

Should have had a hat-trick today

Almost agree with that, though there was not much more he could do with the first shot that was cleared off the line. But the one-on-one he should have scored.

Sad way to celebrate 100 goals for the club though.

[jillcwhomever]

Well in Mo and he is only just warming up watch him go.