Topic: How Lucas Leiva became a Liverpool player

[Lark]

I didn't really want the thread to go down this route, but as we're here...

The thread isn't about Lucas suddenly tearing up pitches across the world. It's not about comparing his abilities to other players, merely the development cycle we may have to become used to and how we should use his emergence to give players maybe two or three seasons before slating them. I'm sure even his most hardened critics would admit he is at least worth a squad place at the moment - and this is just over two seasons away from the player that was never going to be good enough.

Take out the two and a bit seasons of development and imagine him arriving now just as he is for say £10 million. People would not be as harsh on him. He suffered from having probably one of the best midfields in world football ahead of him. If he arrived now, can anyone really say Meireles has looked twice the player? (But to put that into context, Raul's experience has let him stamp his authority on a couple of games - something which is the next stage of Lucas's development) For those saying he is able to shine since players have left, you only have to go back to the Xabi scenario.

He (Xabi) joined when 23 - who was in our midfield at that point? Biscan, Gerrard, an (aging) Hamann, Diao. He came in, established himself as a very good prospect then as the squad improved so did he. It's simple impatience, if he continues the same upwards curve of development, there is no reason why in a few more years Madrid couldn't make another huge bid for a player like him, or even AC Milan.

We can let players undergo this first stage of development at another club then purchase them at the 'coming-of-age' benchmark which appears to be 22/23 @ £10/£15 million mark, but there are still no guarantees about acclimatising to the league and ability to gel with team mates. Or we can bring them in earlier and develop them ourselves. In terms of investment, this makes more sense, and you will get a better return.

Think of it this way - we got Lucas for let's say £5 million. What if someone like Sevilla come in for him and pick him up for £10 million from us - which isn't unreasonable given his top flight league experience, European experience, International experience and general accolades. He goes there without the pressures of fans having to watch him 'develop' as quickly and within three years is a top midfielder being courted by the cream of Europe; is that really hard to visualise or at least accept as a real possibility? It's unfortunate that he is now getting more games as our side is undergoing a really awful time and we have lost a couple of key players.

He really has the ability to go to a team that has a couple of 'stars' but needs to take the next step up and be the keystone of their aspirations. Much like Xabi started for us - and this is only the situation I am comparing not their respective strengths and weaknesses. It's not about being stupid or clever, it's just understanding his role and basing your expectations around that (at least in my opinion).

Furthermore it's not about him being able to walk into another top midfield. Even that has been beyond Mascherano. There are very few players that would do it because of balance and style issues. It's more pertinent to ask other questions like:

>> Does Carrick do anything Lucas looks like he couldn't?
>> Could he stand in for Mikel, Fletcher or Song?

I agree with you. I personally think he's going to be a starter for Brazil when it comes to the WC 2014 in Brazil.

[MiserableP15]

Lach, I fully agree with the fundamental point of your argument, that Leiva is a much improved player who with a bit of luck (he's already proven he has the dedication of mind), could be a top, top player by the age of 26.

The abuse he received was unfair given his age and background. The fact he's in the Brazil squad speaks volumes. The fact he was their captain at U19 level indicates his potential. He deserves every chance and I feel your comparison almost sells him a little short. As others have mentioned, he reminds me more of Busquets or Makele in what he does and given his incredible dedication to LFC I'd have him over any other player in his position in the Premier League.

Give the lad more time.

[macmanaman]

Thing with people who rate Lucas, he does an average pass or average tackle or something along those lines and it gets raved about.

Why don't you just shut up, stop listening to Skysport, or provide us with a good argument for your point. Did you even watch Lucas play lately ?

[RBrittain]

If Lucas was really good enough, he wouldn't still divide opinion so vociferously.

[therockbox]

If Lucas was really good enough, he wouldn't still divide opinion so vociferously.

Bollocks.  Some people are just incredibly thick, or made up their mind when he came on for Gerrard in the derby and simply won't reconsider that opinion.

[Diomedieocre]

I didn't really want the thread to go down this route, but as we're here...

The thread isn't about Lucas suddenly tearing up pitches across the world. It's not about comparing his abilities to other players, merely the development cycle we may have to become used to and how we should use his emergence to give players maybe two or three seasons before slating them. I'm sure even his most hardened critics would admit he is at least worth a squad place at the moment - and this is just over two seasons away from the player that was never going to be good enough.

Take out the two and a bit seasons of development and imagine him arriving now just as he is for say £10 million. People would not be as harsh on him. He suffered from having probably one of the best midfields in world football ahead of him. If he arrived now, can anyone really say Meireles has looked twice the player? (But to put that into context, Raul's experience has let him stamp his authority on a couple of games - something which is the next stage of Lucas's development) For those saying he is able to shine since players have left, you only have to go back to the Xabi scenario.

He (Xabi) joined when 23 - who was in our midfield at that point? Biscan, Gerrard, an (aging) Hamann, Diao. He came in, established himself as a very good prospect then as the squad improved so did he. It's simple impatience, if he continues the same upwards curve of development, there is no reason why in a few more years Madrid couldn't make another huge bid for a player like him, or even AC Milan.

We can let players undergo this first stage of development at another club then purchase them at the 'coming-of-age' benchmark which appears to be 22/23 @ £10/£15 million mark, but there are still no guarantees about acclimatising to the league and ability to gel with team mates. Or we can bring them in earlier and develop them ourselves. In terms of investment, this makes more sense, and you will get a better return.

Think of it this way - we got Lucas for let's say £5 million. What if someone like Sevilla come in for him and pick him up for £10 million from us - which isn't unreasonable given his top flight league experience, European experience, International experience and general accolades. He goes there without the pressures of fans having to watch him 'develop' as quickly and within three years is a top midfielder being courted by the cream of Europe; is that really hard to visualise or at least accept as a real possibility? It's unfortunate that he is now getting more games as our side is undergoing a really awful time and we have lost a couple of key players.

He really has the ability to go to a team that has a couple of 'stars' but needs to take the next step up and be the keystone of their aspirations. Much like Xabi started for us - and this is only the situation I am comparing not their respective strengths and weaknesses. It's not about being stupid or clever, it's just understanding his role and basing your expectations around that (at least in my opinion).

Furthermore it's not about him being able to walk into another top midfield. Even that has been beyond Mascherano. There are very few players that would do it because of balance and style issues. It's more pertinent to ask other questions like:

>> Does Carrick do anything Lucas looks like he couldn't?
>> Could he stand in for Mikel, Fletcher or Song?

Good post Lachesis. I would have a 23 year old Lucas than a 29 year old Carrick every day of the week...I`d have him over all the fella`s you`ve mentiond..I think Mikel would really struggle in our team at the moment....he may become a stunning Dm, but at the moment i`d have our lad....Fletcher has a great engine but lacks that invention that Lucas is beggining to produce. I think Song is a good player but he doesnt have the steel that Lucas has...He`s not a worldclass player but he`s ours.

[thegoodfella]

Thing with people who rate Lucas, he does an average pass or average tackle or something along those lines and it gets raved about.

The wheels on the bus go round and round
Round and round, round and round