Topic: FSG discussion thread

[has gone odd]

So unless we had Scrooge as an owner or some villain that took out the money that the club makes then that’s the least we could expect 

Well, I am grateful to them that we still have a club, since, you know, not many good offers were on the table when we didn't have a bean to spend. If it was as simple as, we are a rich club, go spend, then the figures would be out there and there is no argument. I have seen broad income and expense lists, not seen the inner details of all our costs and expense though, into what our actual net profit is. I have not really looked deeply into it either, I never used to back in the 80s and 90s. If there is like, over £200m net profit (in their pocket) each season then yes, protest away and get them turfed out.

of course they are too rigid, in a changing world of economics and football, you need to to be more flexible to compete, as others rightly state. I also do not think we have owners that are using this as a vanity project, it is a business and that is that.

[lfcred1976]

I respect what you are saying but that line in the sand would have to be tested if it ever happened.

Say a Chinese Investment vehicle comes in with XBillion Yen on the table, how many fans would stay and support the club and how many would move on?

Personally, I have supported this club since I was 10 years old, so not sure how I could divorce, more Til Death Us do Part kind of deal.

That’s it. I’ve noticed on here that if you don’t go with the masses the insults start flying around. I genuinely think in the example you said, people would be be saying on here it’s an outrage and they are done, yet would still go the match at the weekend.

Anyone who says otherwise is talking shite.

[Chakan]

Nah you wouldn’t. Anyone who says that is chatting bollocks to toe the party line on here.

So you wouldn’t want Klopp to have unlimited funds to sign any player he wanted rather than having to beg, steal and borrow to sign shite like Minamino?  Ok.

It's not bollocks, I would walk away from the club if we became a sportswashing exercise. 100%

You may think i'm lying but I can guarantee you I would do it.

[lfcred1976]

It's not bollocks, I would walk away from the club if we became a sportswashing exercise. 100%

You may think i'm lying but I can guarantee you I would do it.

Good on you for sticking to your principles 👍

[Chakan]

Good on you for sticking to your principles 👍

It's the same reason i'm not watching the world cup this year. I love the world cup and usually watch it, but not this year.

[lfcred1976]

It's the same reason i'm not watching the world cup this year. I love the world cup and usually watch it, but not this year.

Again fair play. I’m not a big lover of international football myself so if I’m free I’ll watch it, if not no big deal if I miss a few games.

[jillcwhomever]

That’s it. I’ve noticed on here that if you don’t go with the masses the insults start flying around. I genuinely think in the example you said, people would be be saying on here it’s an outrage and they are done, yet would still go the match at the weekend.

Anyone who says otherwise is talking shite.

People can only speak for themselves. I know plenty of Liverpool fans who say they would walk away from football if we were taken over by some sports washing state. But I guess it's beyond your understanding, so I will leave it there. Despite what you think, you do not live other people's heads so cannot possibly say it's shite. I gave up my semi season ticket when Hicks and Gillette were destroying us, so walking away would not deter me.

[lfcred1976]

People can only speak for themselves. I know plenty of Liverpool fans who say they would walk away from football if we were taken over by some sports washing state. But I guess it's beyond your understanding, so I will leave it there. Despite what you think, you do not live other people's heads so cannot possibly say it's shite.

Beyond my understanding?  There’s the insults line justified.

[TwitterJayy]

People can only speak for themselves. I know plenty of Liverpool fans who say they would walk away from football if we were taken over by some sports washing state. But I guess it's beyond your understanding, so I will leave it there. Despite what you think, you do not live other people's heads so cannot possibly say it's shite.

He’s not wrong though to be honest.
A lot of fans online seem to say the same thing about not wanting certain types of owners.
Working with lads, who go each week will say otherwise but because it’s a touchy subject. They won’t say it out loud.

Footys been finished for ages but here we all our talking about it and probably majority still go while complaining its shite.

[lionel_messias]

People can only speak for themselves. I know plenty of Liverpool fans who say they would walk away from football if we were taken over by some sports washing state. But I guess it's beyond your understanding, so I will leave it there. Despite what you think, you do not live other people's heads so cannot possibly say it's shite. I gave up my semi season ticket when Hicks and Gillette were destroying us, so walking away would not deter me.

There was no need to patronise him. I think there are a fair few that would walk away, fair enough.

But many more would stay supporting the club and spend money on it.

[jillcwhomever]

He’s not wrong though to be honest.
A lot of fans online seem to say the same thing about not wanting certain types of owners.
Working with lads, who go each week will say otherwise but because it’s a touchy subject. They won’t say it out loud.

Footys been finished for ages but here we all our talking about it and probably majority still go while complaining its shite.

I'm sure some would, but that's not to say that others wouldn't. My point above was about him doubting others. For a lot of people, maybe it's a generation thing, it would be the thing that tips them over the edge. There are many people on the forum now who are already saying football is not the same for them anymore, something like that happening I think would make a lot of people reconsider. There was a time when I couldn't imagine not going to the football, but once I gave up my ticket, I never entirely regretted it.

[lfcred1976]

There was no need to patronise him. I think there are a fair few that would walk away, fair enough.

But many more would stay supporting the club and spend money on it.

He’s not wrong though to be honest.
A lot of fans online seem to say the same thing about not wanting certain types of owners.
Working with lads, who go each week will say otherwise but because it’s a touchy subject. They won’t say it out loud.

Footys been finished for ages but here we all our talking about it and probably majority still go while complaining its shite.

Nice one 👍

[keyop]

They no doubt hoped FFP was a thing. Turns out FFP was a load of shite sadly.

I think this is a key point, as Jurgen is your perfect manager when there's a level playing field. His ability to find and develop players to suit a system is almost unrivalled over the last 6 years, and his record of turning bargains into elite players was already evident at Dortmund.

The problem comes when your main title rival over the last 6 years doesn't need to find and develop players, as they can buy whoever they like by simply clicking 'add to basket', and their owners then do the rest through shady sponsorships and money laundering.

I recall in 2021 they named a starting 11 and bench that cost over £900m. Whilst there's an argument that FSG could've opened their wallets more, the imbalance in the playing field was already tipped firmly in City's favour. I genuinely think FSG had hopes that they'd eventually be found out or sanctioned, and that clubs would need to toe the line when it comes to how they fund transfers.

[Coolie High]

I reckon they're still smarting from the Andy Carroll situation a bit, now they want to be more sure. I don't think it's an unwillingnesd to spend, but more an unwillingness to spend on anything other than the exact right thing

Andy Carroll was 10 years ago.

[Stockholm Syndrome]

Beyond my understanding?  There’s the insults line justified.

To be fair, isn't it also a little insulting to say someone who expressed their principles was lying?

You can hold your own views on the club and Sportwashing, they are entirely your own and you have every right to them, but you don't really have a right to say that someone else's beliefs are bollocks.

I would give up if we got bought by an oil state, or an oligarchy, or a Chinese wealth fund with links to the government, or even some certain billionaires with horrendous morals. I wouldn't want to be a part of this club if it became a tool in the propoganda of tyrants and human rights abusers.

That's my belief, and it's no more bollocks than any belief anyone else has

[jillcwhomever]

To be fair, isn't it also a little insulting to say someone who expressed their principles was lying?

You can hold your own views on the club and Sportwashing, they are entirely your own and you have every right to them, but you don't really have a right to say that someone else's beliefs are bollocks.

I would give up if we got bought by an oil state, or an oligarchy, or a Chinese wealth fund with links to the government, or even some certain billionaires with horrendous morals. I wouldn't want to be a part of this club if it became a tool in the propoganda of tyrants and human rights abusers.

That's my belief, and it's no more bollocks than any belief anyone else has

 

[didi shamone]

Beyond my understanding?  There’s the insults line justified.

Well you did say anyone who says they'd walk away from a sportswashing  project  was " chatting bollocks".
But now you're  offended.

[RedSince86]

The RedBull investment, that money went towards buying the Pittsburgh Penguins.

[Redric1970]

I think this is a key point, as Jurgen is your perfect manager when there's a level playing field. His ability to find and develop players to suit a system is almost unrivalled over the last 6 years, and his record of turning bargains into elite players was already evident at Dortmund.

The problem comes when your main title rival over the last 6 years doesn't need to find and develop players, as they can buy whoever they like by simply clicking 'add to basket', and their owners then do the rest through shady sponsorships and money laundering.

I recall in 2021 they named a starting 11 and bench that cost over £900m. Whilst there's an argument that FSG could've opened their wallets more, the imbalance in the playing field was already tipped firmly in City's favour. I genuinely think FSG had hopes that they'd eventually be found out or sanctioned, and that clubs would need to toe the line when it comes to how they fund transfers, I always thought you built from a position of strength.

I agree with what you say about not being able to compete with our main rival (Man City) but in the transfer market we are not competing with clubs who are making a lot less money than us, are far less attractive to players ie Utd, Chelsea, arsenal, Spurs, or should I say were less attractive because memories are short in football and should we finish outside the top 4 which is a big possibility it will be difficult to get back as top players will want champions league football plus we then we will have the we don’t have as much to spend. We shouldn’t have got in this position as it really was blatantly obvious this was coming.

[kloppismydad]

Someone labelled them as corner shop owners somewhere, and that really stuck with me. As accurate of a description of them as you'll see anywhere.

[Dr Stu-Pid]

Genuine question. Is there a better group of successful owners than FSG in the PL or other top leagues that someone can point to as being a model for FSG to aspire to?

Obviously not City, PSG, or Newcastle for obvious reasons.

Man Utd are also an obvious no, as are Chelsea's previous owners (I certainly don't think that Boehly is off to a great start either...). Spurs fans have plenty of issues with their owners and have zero trophies in the last 14 years. Arsenal have been a mess since the move to the Emirates, and I don't think any other PL club are really worth adding to the list?

Real Madrid and Bayern Munich are obviously very unique cases and have advantages that we don't have, while Barcelona are a complete basket case.

So what are we aspiring to exactly?

Personally I'm willing to give FSG a lot of credit for what we have achieved both on and off the pitch, and I think that the club is in a very healthy position moving forward. World class training complex, improvements to the stadium and associated revenues, huge growth in commercial revenues, investment in the wage bill to retain players, good core group of young players to build around, and of course the extension for Klopp.

Do they need to do more? Yes, I think that they do. We obviously need investment in the midfield area of the squad, and that will require money to be spent. But I think that the squad generally looks good in the short to medium term outside of that midfield area. We've done well with the signings of Jota, Diaz, and Konate for long term first team options, as well as signing very promising youngsters such as Elliot, Carvalho, and Ramsay (plus improving the Academy system). Keeping Salah was a great move for the club for a few reasons, and there is still plenty of life left in lots of key first team players (Alison, Robertson, TAA, VVD, Gomez, Jones, Thiago, Tsmikas etc).

Do we know for sure that it was due to a lack of funds that we didn't buy one or two additional midfielders this summer (which would be a black mark against FSG), or did the transfer team and Klopp just not think that the correct players were available for the long term and so chose to keep faith with what they have for now and invest that money next season instead? I guess we'll never know for sure if we could have bought both Tchouameni and Nunez, or if it was one or the other.

If people think that we have let the midfield group grow too old together or have put too much faith in injury prone players, is that an FSG issue or an issue with Klopp showing too much faith and loyalty in his group? Do people really want the owners telling Klopp who he should be keeping and moving on?

Obviously FSG's biggest black mark is the Super League fiasco (and I understand that some fans will never forgive them for that), but again, they weren't alone in that line of thinking and all of the top European teams were willing to sign up. I also think that the biggest reason for FSG wanting to join the ESL would have been because UEFA and the PL were seemingly powerless to stop City and PSG from flagrantly cheating and breaking the rules that they assumed would be enforced when they bought the club. That's not excusing them though, we should have steered well clear.

They are not perfect, and they need to invest some money in the next few windows to strengthen our areas of weakness, but it's certainly not all doom and gloom and things could be a hell of a lot worse, and honestly from reading some of the anti-FSG posts on RAWK you'd think that we were facing our 3rd or 4th year out of the CL, hadn't won a trophy in 10 years, or had been selling off our best players. It's definitely over the top IMO given what we have achieved on the pitch.

[Charlie Adams fried egg]

I'm sure some would, but that's not to say that others wouldn't. My point above was about him doubting others. For a lot of people, maybe it's a generation thing, it would be the thing that tips them over the edge. There are many people on the forum now who are already saying football is not the same for them anymore, something like that happening I think would make a lot of people reconsider. There was a time when I couldn't imagine not going to the football, but once I gave up my ticket, I never entirely regretted it.

There's a lot, not just Liverpool fans who've said the same.

I gave up mine when I moved away and the stress of getting off work, then up the M6 for midweek games, then getting home at all hours became too much. I'm at the stage when doing a day trip would be the last thing I'd want to do.

We've been lucky because Klopp's given us something many oldies like me thought we'd never see again, but it's against a backdrop that's made the game virtually unbearable beyond what happens over 90 minutes.

Countries owning clubs and the way they go about justifying it/denying it - just look at the poison spewed by City in the aftermath of the recent game.
Saturation coverage, that is often agenda driven that is presented by and targeted at dickheads that lap it up and then perpetuate it on social media and at grounds.
Refereeing that is totally inconsistent and unaccountable. That's before the introduction of VAR after which it's become worse if that were possible. Allowing refs from one City to referee clubs from the same city against both rivals is off the scale.
Dickhead fans that have decided now is the time to dredge up disasters that previous generations of fans never bothered with.
Hyper inflation of wages and agents fees.

The game is fucked and if anyone thinks that a sportswashing owner is the solution then good luck to you.

Edit: just seen corner shop owners. That's just bollocks. Have you never thought of the reason why we've caught up with Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal? (not you Jill, obviously)

[jillcwhomever]

There's a lot, not just Liverpool fans who've said the same.

I gave up mine when I moved away and the stress of getting off work, then up the M6 for midweek games, then getting home at all hours became too much. I'm at the stage when doing a day trip would be the last thing I'd want to do.

We've been lucky because Klopp's given us something many oldies like me thought we'd never see again, but it's against a backdrop that's made the game virtually unbearable beyond what happens over 90 minutes.

Countries owning clubs and the way they go about justifying it/denying it - just look at the poison spewed by City in the aftermath of the recent game.
Saturation coverage, that is often agenda driven that is presented by and targeted at dickheads that lap it up and then perpetuate it on social media and at grounds.
Refereeing that is totally inconsistent and unaccountable. That's before the introduction of VAR after which it's become worse if that were possible. Allowing refs from one City to referee clubs from the same city against both rivals is off the scale.
Dickhead fans that have decided now is the time to dredge up disasters that previous generations of fans never bothered with.
Hyper inflation of wages and agents fees.

The game is fucked and if anyone thinks that a sportswashing owner is the solution then good luck to you.

Edit: just seen corner shop owners. That's just bollocks. Have you never thought of the reason why we've caught up with Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal?

Agree entirely. 

[LiamG]

Has Al turned up in this thread yet? if he hasn't, can we ban him from posting ? 

[lfcred1976]

Well you did say anyone who says they'd walk away from a sportswashing  project  was " chatting bollocks".
But now you're  offended.

That wasn’t a direct insult to Jill tho. But anyway, she’s got her opinion so I’ll leave her to it.

[TwitterJayy]

I'm sure some would, but that's not to say that others wouldn't. My point above was about him doubting others. For a lot of people, maybe it's a generation thing, it would be the thing that tips them over the edge. There are many people on the forum now who are already saying football is not the same for them anymore, something like that happening I think would make a lot of people reconsider. There was a time when I couldn't imagine not going to the football, but once I gave up my ticket, I never entirely regretted it.

Yous are both right to be honest.
There will be people who welcome it and people who don’t

I’ll be honest, a few years ago around 2016, I’d of been made up with us being a sport washing project. Now being older and understanding why people oppose. I wouldn’t be encouraging it but I’d be lying saying I wouldn’t enjoy the success.

I’ve never been assed about politics as there all corrupt but obviously being from Liverpool. I know bits like hating Tory’s but that’s it.

End of the day we’re here for the footy. While our owners obviously need to invest the money we make into the squad. The FA and UEFA need to get a grip on how clubs can just buy there way to success.

[clinical]

Their asset has grown £3bn in value since they bought it. Is it too much to ask them to put even a little bit of their own money into the club?

I mean really. You don't have to be a state owned club for an owner just to provide a bit of investment when the team is crying out for it when they've made (or will make) so much money out the club.

They really are tight bastards.

[Magix]

Have there been attempts made by established supporter groups like SOS to communicate the issue of squad underinvestment to FSG? Like if things continue the way they have been, we might drop out of the Champions League and find it hard to get back in, losing on the ground the club has gained, and hurting their bottom line in the longer run.

[TwitterJayy]

Their asset has grown £3bn in value since they bought it. Is it too much to ask them to put even a little bit of their own money into the club?

I mean really. You don't have to be a state owned club for an owner just to provide a bit of investment when the team is crying out for it when they've made (or will make) so much money out the club.

They really are tight bastards.

This ahaha even West Ham spend more and they’ve got the dildo brothers

[Magix]

Yous are both right to be honest.
There will be people who welcome it and people who don’t

I’ll be honest, a few years ago around 2016, I’d of been made up with us being a sport washing project. Now being older and understanding why people oppose. I wouldn’t be encouraging it but I’d be lying saying I wouldn’t enjoy the success.

I’ve never been assed about politics as there all corrupt but obviously being from Liverpool. I know bits like hating Tory’s but that’s it.

End of the day we’re here for the footy. While our owners obviously need to invest the money we make into the squad. The FA and UEFA need to get a grip on how clubs can just buy there way to success.

I'm not from Liverpool, but it'll likely be the end of my concrete interest in football should a sportswasher bid for us and not have the city of Liverpool united in arms in opposition to it.

[Nobby Reserve]

What I want to know, and this is a legitimate question, what model works? Or is acceptable?

You have the Newcastle/City model which is the one that works, but would require an oil state and I would hope is unacceptable.

Then you have Arsenal/United/Spurs which is based on taking out loans to make player purchases. This was the model employee by H&G as well which nearly took us out of existence because we had so many unpaid loans. So do we have to go back to this, loans on transfers and hoping they pay off?

Then there is Bohley at Chelsea, who frankly we know little about because he had one summer spending big when he first got there, with a club cleared of all debt by Abramhovic not the buyer. But is this the only option, a high net worth individual spending all his personal money for fun.

I am not saying what FSG is doing is correct, but again am I being overly dramatic when I believe football is in a bad way, that the only way to come close to competing is to have risky loans, to be sports washing, or to be a toy for the sickeningly wealthy. You can't be ran as a business to be successful it has to be gambling, sell your soul, or be a toy.

There's another model.

FSG paid £300m for LFC

LFC has a theoretical value of around £4bn

That's a paper propfit of £3.7bn.

Even if you believe the real, achievale value of LFC is less (let's say £2.8bn for argument's sake - although Chelsea, with a lower income and in a bit of a fire sale situation, went for £4.25bn), then that's £2.5bn in profit.

They've sold stakes of varying value in FSG. If we consider that LFC are, say, 33% of the total FSG asset value, then they've already got their outlay back.

They could easily invest £500m in the playing squad over the next couple of years and still be sat on a big, fat, £multi-billion profit if they choose to sell.

Henry is a billionaire, and other partners are multi-millionaires.


Given the massive appreciation of asset-value, it would - IMO - be increadibly greedy to not plough some of that profit back into the club.

[keyop]

Has Al turned up in this thread yet? if he hasn't, can we ban him from posting ? 

On the contrary, the OP was an open invitation for him and others to use this thread to air their views, to prevent all the mud slinging elsewhere.

[Nobby Reserve]

Yous are both right to be honest.
There will be people who welcome it and people who don’t

I’ll be honest, a few years ago around 2016, I’d of been made up with us being a sport washing project. Now being older and understanding why people oppose. I wouldn’t be encouraging it but I’d be lying saying I wouldn’t enjoy the success.

I’ve never been assed about politics as there all corrupt but obviously being from Liverpool. I know bits like hating Tory’s but that’s it.

End of the day we’re here for the footy. While our owners obviously need to invest the money we make into the squad. The FA and UEFA need to get a grip on how clubs can just buy there way to success.

When Dubai Investment Company were looking to buy us, I was quite excited. Back then I knew little of Dubai and the wider UAE beyond what you see on adverts and TV and the like.

Since finding out more about how oppressive and tyrannical the dictatorships are, I'm mightily glad we avoided them. And if the club was sold to such an entity, I'd just stop supporting the club whilst they were owners, no matter how much it hurt (and even then, I'd probably follow us from a detached distance)

[TwitterJayy]

I'm not from Liverpool, but it'll likely be the end of my concrete interest in football should a sportswasher bid for us and not have the city of Liverpool united in arms in opposition to it.

It won’t though, people online will be united against it because it’s easy to follow the crowd. But be honest there’s loads that pay attention to the politics side and just want the success.

Personally I know a few that would welcome it. I mean some fans do have short term memory’s…
Remember ‘Yanks Out, Dubai In’?

[TwitterJayy]

When Dubai Investment Company were looking to buy us, I was quite excited. Back then I knew little of Dubai and the wider UAE beyond what you see on adverts and TV and the like.

Since finding out more about how oppressive and tyrannical the dictatorships are, I'm mightily glad we avoided them. And if the club was sold to such an entity, I'd just stop supporting the club whilst they were owners, no matter how much it hurt (and even then, I'd probably follow us from a detached distance)

Easy saying that now though. Not saying you wouldn’t but do we generally believe city and Newcastle fans are happy about there owners actions? They just care about the footy, which I don’t blame them either

[Kennys from heaven]

Genuine question. Is there a better group of successful owners than FSG in the PL or other top leagues that someone can point to as being a model for FSG to aspire to?

Obviously not City, PSG, or Newcastle for obvious reasons.

Man Utd are also an obvious no, as are Chelsea's previous owners (I certainly don't think that Boehly is off to a great start either...). Spurs fans have plenty of issues with their owners and have zero trophies in the last 14 years. Arsenal have been a mess since the move to the Emirates, and I don't think any other PL club are really worth adding to the list?

Real Madrid and Bayern Munich are obviously very unique cases and have advantages that we don't have, while Barcelona are a complete basket case.

So what are we aspiring to exactly?

Personally I'm willing to give FSG a lot of credit for what we have achieved both on and off the pitch, and I think that the club is in a very healthy position moving forward. World class training complex, improvements to the stadium and associated revenues, huge growth in commercial revenues, investment in the wage bill to retain players, good core group of young players to build around, and of course the extension for Klopp.

Do they need to do more? Yes, I think that they do. We obviously need investment in the midfield area of the squad, and that will require money to be spent. But I think that the squad generally looks good in the short to medium term outside of that midfield area. We've done well with the signings of Jota, Diaz, and Konate for long term first team options, as well as signing very promising youngsters such as Elliot, Carvalho, and Ramsay (plus improving the Academy system). Keeping Salah was a great move for the club for a few reasons, and there is still plenty of life left in lots of key first team players (Alison, Robertson, TAA, VVD, Gomez, Jones, Thiago, Tsmikas etc).

Do we know for sure that it was due to a lack of funds that we didn't buy one or two additional midfielders this summer (which would be a black mark against FSG), or did the transfer team and Klopp just not think that the correct players were available for the long term and so chose to keep faith with what they have for now and invest that money next season instead? I guess we'll never know for sure if we could have bought both Tchouameni and Nunez, or if it was one or the other.

If people think that we have let the midfield group grow too old together or have put too much faith in injury prone players, is that an FSG issue or an issue with Klopp showing too much faith and loyalty in his group? Do people really want the owners telling Klopp who he should be keeping and moving on?

Obviously FSG's biggest black mark is the Super League fiasco (and I understand that some fans will never forgive them for that), but again, they weren't alone in that line of thinking and all of the top European teams were willing to sign up. I also think that the biggest reason for FSG wanting to join the ESL would have been because UEFA and the PL were seemingly powerless to stop City and PSG from flagrantly cheating and breaking the rules that they assumed would be enforced when they bought the club. That's not excusing them though, we should have steered well clear.

They are not perfect, and they need to invest some money in the next few windows to strengthen our areas of weakness, but it's certainly not all doom and gloom and things could be a hell of a lot worse, and honestly from reading some of the anti-FSG posts on RAWK you'd think that we were facing our 3rd or 4th year out of the CL, hadn't won a trophy in 10 years, or had been selling off our best players. It's definitely over the top IMO given what we have achieved on the pitch.

My earlier post was alluding to exactly this, that being: What are people expecting here?

The perfect owner doesn't exist. The old saying of "You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time" is never more relevant than with this topic. All the talk is of FSG being not up to it, yet at the crux of it all, absolutely no-one can provide an answer to who would replace them.

The debate will go one and on and on and on. No matter who owns us there will always be many dissenters or someone who dislikes what they do. Football is a farce at the moment and yet with all the supposed issues that we have and against huge odds and stacked playing field, we've been the second most successful club in the past 5 years... And even then, second only to a complete and utter cheat code (politest I can make it) of a club.

FSG's percieved shortcomings have been done to death and even more relevantly, what Charlie said a few posts up has also been completely underplayed - football as a whole is fucked... But I would challenge even Al to say that FSG do not deserve some respect for at least trying to conduct their business in a way that has some modicum of integrity.

[Ravishing Rick Dude]

Can't complain so far, they have been pretty good.

[keyop]

I wonder if we tried to do too much, too quickly? Are there examples of other clubs that have maintained success whilst simultaneously transitioning to a new team, growing commercial revenues and modernising all the club infrastructure?

I'm not saying it's either one or the other, but FSG seemed to be tackling three different strands of the club when they took over, which was to make us successful on the pitch, develop our commercial position, and upgrade our physical infrastructure. In the background there was also improvements to the footballing structure, the recruitment, data, fitness, and medical sides of the club - all of which look light years ahead of where we were (even if it's not reflected in our injury record...).

[T.Mills]

So where do we go from here? Are we just accepting our fate and resigned to the fact we’ll regress to the norm once Klopp goes. Fuck me thats depressing.

[Sudden Death Draft Loser]

So where do we go from here? Are we just accepting our fate and resigned to the fact we’ll regress to the norm once Klopp goes. Fuck me thats depressing.

Once Klopp goes?

We're pretty much there already.