Topic: Winning Title #19*

[stewy17]

Nevermind opening a gap up on city and their heads falling off, I think this is massive to give us the breathing space we're going to need over Christmas with the Club World Cup.

I think Guardiola will play similarly to last year and I actually think he'd take a draw with what we have to deal with in December/January. I think they'll probably fancy their chances of reeling us in over that period.

Isn't it wonderful to be involved in these games and to be genuine title challengers? Absolutely wild that we're having discussions like this in November, and testament to the levels that us and City are reaching and have been reaching for the last 18 months.

[Crosby Nick]

Nevermind opening a gap up on city and their heads falling off, I think this is massive to give us the breathing space we're going to need over Christmas with the Club World Cup.

I think Guardiola will play similarly to last year and I actually think he'd take a draw with what we have to deal with in December/January. I think they'll probably fancy their chances of reeling us in over that period.

Isn't it wonderful to be involved in these games and to be genuine title challengers? Absolutely wild that we're having discussions like this in November, and testament to the levels that us and City are reaching and have been reaching for the last 18 months.

Good point, and actually I’d forgotten about our West Ham game being moved so whatever the result on Sunday, at some point our lead will probably be cut by three but with us having a game in hand. Who do City play that weekend? Would be an absolute bonus for them not to take advantage but that’s a tricky away game we’ll have to come where we can’t really ‘bank’ the extra 3 points when we’re staring at the table every five minutes.

[Paul1611]

One difference being that they had the same points as us at that time (19 out of 21 I think), and a draw was a better result then than it is now. But I think you're right, Guardiola wont change his game plan. Not after being beaten 4-3 and 3-0 in the two previous meetings at Anfield.

Theres a piece on the BBC about teams playing a very defensive 352 against us causing us problems.  This might be the way Guardiola goes, with Mendy-Stones-Fernandino-Otamendi-Walker across the back, denying our FB's the space.

[Qston]

Psychologically it would be damaging to them - seeing a chance to 100% cut the deficit in half go, seeing the chance to break out unbeaten run gone, and seeing the gap widen.

Plus it would only solidify our confidence.

A win really would be huge.

I try and avoid hyperbole about individual games, and calling them 'must win' and so on. However, the importance of a win on this occasion cannot be overstated. A 9 point gap would be a massive psychological blow to city and could well turn out to the be the game that we all look back on as being "the" game.

[killer-heels]

It's worth saying that prior to the last game we'd played Chelsea away, followed by Napoli away by the time city came to us. We were full strength and pushed to the limit in both games. The squad has been used a lot more in the build up to this one - that could end up being crucial.

Yep plus we had one day less rest whilst I am sure City had a home CL game.

[diehard]

Yep plus we had one day less rest whilst I am sure City had a home CL game.

They travelled to Atlanta for the CL


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[Anthony]

They travelled to Atlanta for the CL


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

Talking about last year I think..

[macmanamanaman]

One of the key things we need to do to secure the title is score more points than anyone else in the table. The psychological impact of more points is not to be underestimated.

[killer-heels]

They travelled to Atlanta for the CL


[You may have an iPhone but you are still using the free version of Tapatalk and spamming us with that knowledge]

I meant last year. We didnt come into it in top notch shape and it was then that Neville made his stupid comments about why we should disregard the CL. He also spent the first half complaining about our energy and attributing it to the Napoli game.

[Sharado]

I meant last year. We didnt come into it in top notch shape and it was then that Neville made his stupid comments about why we should disregard the CL. He also spent the first half complaining about our energy and attributing it to the Napoli game.

Just looked it up. They were away [hoffenheim] but had an extra day's rest to us. It's funny as obviously the only thing anyone remembers is the result - but stuff like that properly plays into it. An extra days rest, more rotation, being at home midweek - they're all definitely to our advantage.

[Red Beret]

One difference being that they had the same points as us at that time (19 out of 21 I think), and a draw was a better result then than it is now. But I think you're right, Guardiola wont change his game plan. Not after being beaten 4-3 and 3-0 in the two previous meetings at Anfield.

Does he have the players this time around though?

[PatriotScouser]

We won't win the league if we win on Sunday and similarly we won't lose the league if we lose on Sunday and either result is entirely plausible.

If we win then we need to remain focused and keep it one game at a time but if we lose and gap closes to 3 points then we need to remind ourselves that we are still top and we'd have taken that at this stage of the season having our fixture list at this point of the season.

I personally think City are more vulnerable this season to losing points across a season than the previous 2 seasons, so in that respect a loss on Sunday for me doesn't doom disaster.

We'd just have pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and go again like I know this team is capable of doing.

[johnny74]

Guardiola said: "If it is an open game at Anfield, you don't even have one percent of a chance. We controlled it through Riyad Mahrez, Bernardo Silva, the guys to give the extra pass. Up and down they (Liverpool) are the best team in the world in these transitions, offensive, defensive, it is built for that. In that situation they are much better."

He said this after the 0-0 last season, played a similar time early in the season.  How they played it last time worked well for them, I see no reason why it won't be the same again, I'm guessing a 0-0 or a tight 1-0 hopefully for us.

We don't play anything like that anymore though do we? We've switched tactics to make games tighter and nick the points.

[MD1990]

We don't play anything like that anymore though do we? We've switched tactics to make games tighter and nick the points.

We dont because we cant with every team playing so deep against us.

When was the last time a team puched high against us?

[Roger Federer]

Does he have the players this time around though?

I think so. The only one that is missing from the 0-0 last year is Laporte, and he's their best defender so it will have some impact, but I don't think that alone means they will play a diffent game. But then again, we're better in possession now, so hopefully we'll break them down anyway.

[FiSh77]

Good point, and actually I’d forgotten about our West Ham game being moved so whatever the result on Sunday, at some point our lead will probably be cut by three but with us having a game in hand. Who do City play that weekend? Would be an absolute bonus for them not to take advantage but that’s a tricky away game we’ll have to come where we can’t really ‘bank’ the extra 3 points when we’re staring at the table every five minutes.

They're home to Leicester that week

[Trump's tiny tiny hands]

I think so. The only one that is missing from the 0-0 last year is Laporte, and he's their best defender so it will have some impact, but I don't think that alone means they will play a diffent game. But then again, we're better in possession now, so hopefully we'll break them down anyway.

And Ederson? Who will be a big miss for them when trying to play out from the back - pressing opportunities for us. Also worth noting how the confidence went from the defenders when he went off against Atalanta. They're definitely not sure about Bravo.

[PoetryInMotion]

Theres a piece on the BBC about teams playing a very defensive 352 against us causing us problems.  This might be the way Guardiola goes, with Mendy-Stones-Fernandino-Otamendi-Walker across the back, denying our FB's the space.

We won't use our FBs in that case. They will get roasted through the middle by our attack. Back 3 has mostly suffered against us than worked. Think Roma, think Spurs before they changed in game at Anfield two seasons ago, etc.

Our side is more versatile and rounded than the media make it to be. It's a myth that we are this counter attacking side who're only lethal in transitions. We're good at that but we're much much more than that.

[Red Beret]

I think so. The only one that is missing from the 0-0 last year is Laporte, and he's their best defender so it will have some impact, but I don't think that alone means they will play a diffent game. But then again, we're better in possession now, so hopefully we'll break them down anyway.

And Ederson? Who will be a big miss for them when trying to play out from the back - pressing opportunities for us. Also worth noting how the confidence went from the defenders when he went off against Atalanta. They're definitely not sure about Bravo.

That's what I was thinking.  They'll have had some time to adjust to the prospect of playing with Bravo rather than Ederson,  but compared to how we performed with Adrian they may not respond too well. A bit like how we'd feel if we'd had to rely on Mignolet if Alisson wasn't available, although tbf to Migs our players were familiar enough with his strengths and weaknesses that they could at least partially mitigate for them.

[redk84]

Nevermind opening a gap up on city and their heads falling off, I think this is massive to give us the breathing space we're going to need over Christmas with the Club World Cup.

Good point this. From now until Christmas taking this game out of the equation.....we will have to be very good in the league and not let any points slip through our fingers unnecessarily.

Yeah we dropped points to Arsenal, Chelsea, City away last season but also Leicester and West Ham and a few others below the "top 6" gave us some hairy moments

And to be able to leave for the club world cup having little regrets on the league results behind would be great

[Roger Federer]

And Ederson? Who will be a big miss for them when trying to play out from the back - pressing opportunities for us. Also worth noting how the confidence went from the defenders when he went off against Atalanta. They're definitely not sure about Bravo.

That's what I was thinking.  They'll have had some time to adjust to the prospect of playing with Bravo rather than Ederson,  but compared to how we performed with Adrian they may not respond too well. A bit like how we'd feel if we'd had to rely on Mignolet if Alisson wasn't available, although tbf to Migs our players were familiar enough with his strengths and weaknesses that they could at least partially mitigate for them.

Didn’t think he’d miss the game, but maybe he is and I hope so. As you both mention, he’s very important for how they play. Bravo is similar though, but several levels below him.

[Legoland]

We won't use our FBs in that case. They will get roasted through the middle by our attack. Back 3 has mostly suffered against us than worked. Think Roma, think Spurs before they changed in game at Anfield two seasons ago, etc.

Our side is more versatile and rounded than the media make it to be. It's a myth that we are this counter attacking side who're only lethal in transitions. We're good at that but we're much much more than that.

I don't think anyone is making it out to be that actually. We've been receiving plenty of praise lately. Just need to stuff city good this weekend.

[mrantarctica]

I try and avoid hyperbole about individual games, and calling them 'must win' and so on. However, the importance of a win on this occasion cannot be overstated. A 9 point gap would be a massive psychological blow to city and could well turn out to the be the game that we all look back on as being "the" game.

It's also vital that after a big game like this that we don't lose focus and let performance levels drop in the next game. Crystal Palace away is exactly the kind of tricky encounter where if we're not on it the we could end up having a frustrating game. Overall though I think a win in this game could really knock their confidence a bit.

Overall, history has shown that if the team leading at Xmas is leading by 6 points or more, they will invariably go on to win it. The only time this didn't happened was actually 2008/9 when we were leading at Xmas and Man Utd was well back (more than 6 points behind us) and then they went on an incredible running and ended up winning the league by some margin. We were also 4 points clear at Xmas last season. So it cannot be understated just how important it is to capitalise on opportunities to build up a bit of a buffer between us and the other teams. More often than not in this league, it has been very close at the midway stage and too close to call.

[PoetryInMotion]

I don't think anyone is making it out to be that actually. We've been receiving plenty of praise lately. Just need to stuff city good this weekend.

Really? Guardiola just focuses on that aspect while talking about us, and several pundits do that as well. They talk about how we're strong in counters, how our full-backs attack and that we're finding a way to win games and that's the praise we get. Not how good a team we have become in possession - this has gone under the radar. It might work to our favour in the end anyway.

[farawayred]

@mrantarctica, overall whoever was on top of the table at Christmas has won the league. Except for three times, all of them Liverpool... And the last year one must have been the most painful experience. I hope we beat the odds this time around.

[JC the Messiah]

It's also vital that after a big game like this that we don't lose focus and let performance levels drop in the next game. Crystal Palace away is exactly the kind of tricky encounter where if we're not on it the we could end up having a frustrating game. Overall though I think a win in this game could really knock their confidence a bit.

Overall, history has shown that if the team leading at Xmas is leading by 6 points or more, they will invariably go on to win it. The only time this didn't happened was actually 2008/9 when we were leading at Xmas and Man Utd was well back (more than 6 points behind us) and then they went on an incredible running and ended up winning the league by some margin. We were also 4 points clear at Xmas last season. So it cannot be understated just how important it is to capitalise on opportunities to build up a bit of a buffer between us and the other teams. More often than not in this league, it has been very close at the midway stage and too close to call.

The thing is, no one has ever produced the points haul that is and City are now achieving. It's on a different level and therefore the margin for error is far smaller. Lost a game, and it's far more damaging. 9 points becomes almost insurmountable.

[Dougle]

A win will be absolutely huge mentally and then after that they have a tough fixtures up until new year , we also have some tough ones but out of our next nine league games six are at home and we’ve been pretty formidable at home so we could even make the gap bigger by new year than nine points if we win Sunday

All things being equal this is a huge opportunity for us. A draw isn't a disaster and (god forbid) a defeat will still leave us 3 points ahead of them after a much tougher start to the season. However, a win makes a formidable talented team on a mission even more determined and nails Anfield as a near impossible place to get something. It strengthens everything about the team and the club.
The opposite will be the case for City. A loss on Sunday and that creeping feeling that they are maybe, just past it, maybe not as hungry, that the wheel is turning on this phase of supreme domestic dominance. It's not just 3 points but psychologically, I think, a defeat makes it very hard for them to get it up for the next series of domestic games. There are a few clubs out there who want to repay City a few spankings they have recently meted out. City will leak if they lose and Utd, Chelsea etc will lick their lips.
That would be 3 defeats and a draw in 12 games. Nope, much and all as I don't want to admit to myself but if we beat them, all things being equal, then the League is ours to win.
I can't wait for the game. It's gonna be a blast.

[arfy05]

We have Fabinho this time, remember at Anfield last year he wasn’t in the team and at the etihad he really gabe us bite. So I think that will help us move forward. Think what we really need to do is have that raucous Anfield atmosphere and make it a big european night like atmosphere. Put these under pressure and really make every marginal moment count and we will win. They really will try to contain and control.

[mark2311]

@mrantarctica, overall whoever was on top of the table at Christmas has won the league. Except for three times, all of them Liverpool... And the last year one must have been the most painful experience. I hope we beat the odds this time around.

Not quite true
Arsenal were top 2007/2008 and Utd went on to win
Man Utd top 2003/4 and Arsenal won
Arsenal top 2002/3 Utd won
Newcastle were top the year before to see Arsenal win and there’s more in the previous years

[MD1990]

Really? Guardiola just focuses on that aspect while talking about us, and several pundits do that as well. They talk about how we're strong in counters, how our full-backs attack and that we're finding a way to win games and that's the praise we get. Not how good a team we have become in possession - this has gone under the radar. It might work to our favour in the end anyway.

We scored the 2 best possesion goals last season not City.

Firmino vs City
Mane vs Leicester

2 exceptional goals that dont get enough praise.

[jepovic]

@mrantarctica, overall whoever was on top of the table at Christmas has won the league. Except for three times, all of them Liverpool... And the last year one must have been the most painful experience. I hope we beat the odds this time around.

That's nonsense though.

[killer-heels]

Its amazing how Footballers are able to make money for talking utter shite. Glen Johnson said we suffered a dip in our form last season during Christmas.

Er, ok.

[Ratboy3G]

And Ederson? Who will be a big miss for them when trying to play out from the back - pressing opportunities for us. Also worth noting how the confidence went from the defenders when he went off against Atalanta. They're definitely not sure about Bravo.

Ederson will play

[farawayred]

That's nonsense though.

I agree, it's nonsense to relate the positions at Christmas and in May. So many things may happen if we go far in all the competitions.

[Perham]

I agree, it's nonsense to relate the positions at Christmas and in May. So many things may happen if we go far in all the competitions.

It's true in that the best team for the first half of the season is likely to be the best for the second but I agree that it's a long way to go still by Christmas.

[Legoland]

Can't write off Leicester and Chelsea until they're actually out. They're still in the title race until we put some real day light between us and them.

[deFacto please, you bastards]

They're not in the title race.

[Dench57]

Can't write off Leicester and Chelsea until they're actually out.

I will:


they're not in the title race

[jillcwhomever]

Can't write off Leicester and Chelsea until they're actually out. They're still in the title race until we put some real day light between us and them.

It's November, way too early to be even thinking about the title race.

[Crosby Nick]

It's November, way too early to be even thinking about the title race.

...in the Chasing the Title thread.

Obviously them and Chelsea are in good runs and mathematically aren’t out of it with so long to go but as said above, you’d think 95 points will be needed to win this League and I can’t see either getting within 10 points if that. If us and City both drop form and the title is won on 85 then maybe they both have a chance but that feels unlikely (but not impossible) at this moment.