Author Topic: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics  (Read 4889 times)

Offline Trada

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The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« on: November 2, 2017, 08:39:14 pm »
No one seems to know what its about yet

But at the moment hes suspended not thrown out of the party.

 Laura Kuenssberg‏Verified account @bbclaurak 5m5 minutes ago

Kelvin Hopkins, Labour MP , chucked out of the party after allegations of bad behaviour
« Last Edit: November 4, 2017, 07:59:54 pm by SParklers »
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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #1 on: November 2, 2017, 08:39:39 pm »
And Kelvin Hopkins chucked out of labour...

Party’s have know about these issues and just ignored them...
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline killer-heels

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Re: Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #2 on: November 2, 2017, 08:49:54 pm »
And Kelvin Hopkins chucked out of labour...

Party’s have know about these issues and just ignored them...

Maybe they will get Shami Chakrabarti to investigate.

Offline Trada

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Re: Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #3 on: November 2, 2017, 08:50:30 pm »
And Kelvin Hopkins chucked out of labour...

Party’s have know about these issues and just ignored them...

Hes been suspended not chucked out of the party thats Kuenssberg being over dramatic for some reason.

Of course that might happen in the end.
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

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“I carry them with me: what they would have thought and said and done. Make them a part of who I am. So even though they’re gone from the world they’re never gone from me.

Offline SP

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Re: Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #4 on: November 2, 2017, 09:07:09 pm »
And this is relevant to the Tory topic how?

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #5 on: November 2, 2017, 09:14:16 pm »
And this is relevant to the Tory topic how?
He’s..... a red Tory........?

*Desperately scrabbles for reason for going off topic..*
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Lush is the best medicine...

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Re: Re: Those Shilly, Shilly Tories Mischh Moneypenny.. (***)
« Reply #6 on: November 2, 2017, 09:43:59 pm »
Maybe they will get Shami Chakrabarti to investigate.
dont think they can give her another peerage to do another whitewash job?

Offline SP

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #7 on: November 2, 2017, 11:19:21 pm »
Split from the Tory topic. These is for the “Weinstein” scandal, Westminster style. Please don’t bring party politicking in here.

Offline Trada

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #8 on: November 3, 2017, 08:17:52 am »
What they were saying on Newsnight last night Kelvin Hopkins was working with a girl activist who was a lot younger than him and he sent her a message saying something along the line of "I wish I was 30 years younger" the girl didnt complain but someone heard about it, and told the party and he was reprimand over it.

And when he joined the shadow cabinet the leadership were told its was all sorted and everything was ok.

Then suddenly the girl when to the media yesterday and spoke about it for the first time and the party found out they weren't told the full story and she said he also rubbed himself against her and then he was right away suspended. 
« Last Edit: November 3, 2017, 09:13:57 am by Trada »
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Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #9 on: November 3, 2017, 08:51:25 am »
The impending publication of the  claims/allegations in the Torygraph online at 8.45pm might have had something to do with the timing of his suspension, and that's a good sign in many ways that Labour are starting to get their act together in news management (think of the chaos and amateur hour behaviours over the anti semitic stuff the other year)

I think Labour have done absolutely the right thing in suspending him while it's all investigated, they rightly have to seen as being serious about this sort of stuff.

As to the back story itself, I think Jess Phillips observations in that article are probably near the truth ...



Labour MP Jess Phillips said Mr Hopkins should not have been promoted but suspected the decision was "more cock-up than conspiracy".

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "There does seem to be a problem with some of the issues over the timeline in this case, and I think that potentially Kelvin Hopkins should not have been promoted."

Ms Phillips said she believes the case was handled "perfectly well" within the procedures at the time, and that she has spoken to Ms Etemadzadeh who felt "real solidarity" with Dame Rosie.

But she added: "I am a bit concerned about the fact that Kelvin was then promoted afterwards, that does seem wrong to me.

"I think actually it's probably more cock-up than conspiracy if I'm allowed to say cock-up on the radio.

"I don't think that it was sort of political expediency; I think that people just didn't take it as seriously as it needed to be taken."
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

Mutton Geoff (Obviously a real nice guy)

Offline TepidT2O

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“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Circa1892

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #11 on: November 3, 2017, 07:03:32 pm »
And when he joined the shadow cabinet the leadership were told its was all sorted and everything was ok.

I mean that's not what happened. But yeah - poor Jeremy and John clearly knew nothing because they are angels.

Offline Trada

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #12 on: November 3, 2017, 08:25:53 pm »
I mean that's not what happened. But yeah - poor Jeremy and John clearly knew nothing because they are angels.

I was just saying what Newsnight said.
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Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Trada

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #13 on: November 3, 2017, 08:41:08 pm »
Odd she still put kisses in the texts to him after she had meant to have been disgusted by him.


Press Statement of Kelvin Hopkins MP in response to press reports concerning allegations by Ava Etemadzadeh (hereafter ‘Ava’):

    1. My first recollection of ever meeting Ava was at the Labour Party Conference in Manchester in September 2014. She was one of approximately 10 party activists who had been present at a fringe reception and who accompanied me and my daughter to an evening meal in Manchester for activists and supporters. She introduced herself as the Chair of Labour Students at Essex University and she joined in the general conversation around the dining table. As I usually do, I let her have my contact details.

    2. I next came across Ava when I was canvassing in support of the Labour candidate in the Clacton-on Sea by-election on 9 October 2014. She was one of a number of Labour Party activists who joined me in leafleting and door knocking. I had no prior knowledge at all that Ava would be in Clacton for the by-election. I had a general chat with her about the by-election in the company of the other campaigners.

    3. On 11 October 2014 Ava sent me a text message:

    “Hi Kelvin, how are you? I was wondering if you would like to come to University of Essex to speak in one of our Labour society socials this term? x Ava”.

    4. I then arranged, through the secretary of the student Labour society at Essex University, to speak at Essex on 12 November 2014. I arrived at Colchester mid-afternoon as the social event was due to start at 4.15 pm. I gave my speech to the students. It was a well received talk and involved a lively questions and answers debate with those who were there. After the event, Ava walked me to my car in the car park at the university. There were many people in the general area.

    5. The allegation has been made and reported in the press that I “hugged her [Ava] inappropriately” (eg Telegraph newspaper 3 November 2017). Ava is reported to have said, “He hugged me to say goodbye, held me too tight and rubbed his crotch on me, which I found revolting”.

    6. I absolutely and categorically deny that I in any way engaged in any such inappropriate conduct. I simply put an arm around her shoulder to give her a brief slight hug just before getting in to my car. I did not hold her tight. I did not rub any part of my body, let alone my crotch, against Ava. She waved me off as I drove away and did not say anything whatsoever to suggest that anything had occurred that upset her let alone revolted her. In fact after I left the University, Ava sent me a text message during the same evening of 12 November timed at 9 pm saying:

    “Thank you so much Kelvin for coming tonight!! We had a fantastic time. My members loved you! 🙂 You’re a star! x Ava”

    7. On 15 December 2014 Ava sent me a text message:

    “Hi Kelvin, how are you? Could you please send me your post address? I’d like to send you a Christmas card. x Ava”.

    8. I gave her my address as House of Commons, Westminster London SW1A 0AA. Her card arrived on 17 December.

    9. When I had visited Essex University I had made an invite to the students to visit the House of Commons. I often take groups and individuals on tours of the Palace of Westminster and often dine with my guests in the House. Arrangements were made for a group of about 8 students to come to Westminster early in 2015. I believe the group trip was cancelled but Ava still wanted to visit and came to Westminster on 2 February 2015. It is reported in the press that at that meeting I asked questions about her personal life and that I made her uncomfortable with a suggestion that I would have liked to take her to my office if it were empty. I have no recollection whatsoever of such conversations. I recall the meeting lasting about 2 hours including dining in the Strangers Dining Room which was buzzing with very many other parliamentarians and their guests also having lunch. Shortly after leaving Westminster Ava sent me the following text message on 2 February at 14:50:

    “Thank you, Kelvin for today. It was lovely meeting you! 🙂 xx”

    10. On 16 February 2015 I did send a text message to Ava which included the reported words saying Ava was “charming and sweet natured” and that “a nice young man would be lucky to have you as a girlfriend and lover…Were I to be young…but I am not…”. She in fact replied to my text on the same day:

    “Oh thank you Kelvin for such kind words. I was ill last week for a couple of days and also I had run for NUS delegate – they announced the results and I got elected with the highest number of votes!! So sorry if I couldn’t speak to you last week x”

    11. My only contact with Ava since then was about a year ago when she made contact with me to discuss working in Westminster. She told me that she had applied for a job with a Labour MP and that although she had been shortlisted to the final 2 for the job she nevertheless did not get it. She wanted my advice on how she could possibly have done better. I called her from parliament and advised her that jobs with MPs are difficult to get and I told her for example that my office had no vacancies. I advised her that she should also think about working as a member of staff of the House of Commons and should think about the civil service. I also suggested that as she is bi-lingual (Ava is fluent in Farsi) she could also think about working with the Foreign Office. Our conversation was friendly.

    12. I have had no contact with Ava since then and was shocked when I saw the allegations appear online last night and in the papers today. I have always wished and still do wish, Ava the very best of luck in pursuing the career in politics that she wants to follow. I am happy to fully cooperate with the Labour Party to bring to a swift conclusion the investigation that is now being carried out into my conduct.

    Press Enquiries:

    Martin Howe (Senior Partner) partners@howe.co.uk
« Last Edit: November 3, 2017, 08:53:08 pm by Trada »
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Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #14 on: November 3, 2017, 08:55:15 pm »
Don’t think you should see that as any sign of innocence...(or otherwise).
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline TepidT2O

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #15 on: November 3, 2017, 09:08:10 pm »
Charlie Elphicke now having the whip suspended by the Tories
“Happiness can be found in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.”
“Generosity always pays off. Generosity in your effort, in your work, in your kindness, in the way you look after people and take care of people. In the long run, if you are generous with a heart, and with humanity, it always pays off.”
W

Offline Trada

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #16 on: November 3, 2017, 09:20:18 pm »
Charlie Elphicke now having the whip suspended by the Tories

Must be bad say its been referred to the police.
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Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #17 on: November 4, 2017, 12:19:04 am »
Don’t think you should see that as any sign of innocence...(or otherwise).
True, but it does muddy the waters some what.

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #18 on: November 4, 2017, 12:22:16 am »
Seems these stories of sexual/personal space/rapes are going to be never ending. Does anyone think MPs could lose their seats and could this cause an election?

Offline killer-heels

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #19 on: November 4, 2017, 12:50:40 am »
True, but it does muddy the waters some what.

No it doesnt. The inquiry will get to the bottom of it though.

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #20 on: November 4, 2017, 01:27:46 am »
No it doesnt. The inquiry will get to the bottom of it though.
Well she (assuming he's not lying) was texting him after the incident was supposed to have taken place. Now that doesn't of course make him innocent, but if true its strange behaviour. How will the inquiry get to the bottom of it? Were there witnesses, as at the moment its he said she said?

Offline Red Beret

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Offline Elmo!

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Re: The Westminster Sleaze Pit - No Party Politics
« Reply #22 on: November 4, 2017, 07:57:26 pm »
Not Westminster, but the SNP now caught up in this, and it's none other than my constituency MSP. There were a couple of SNP politicians I thought were bound to be involved in this (obviously will not be naming them) but he was certainly not one of them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41872427

Offline SP

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #23 on: November 4, 2017, 08:00:56 pm »
Amended topic title to include MSPs.

Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #24 on: November 4, 2017, 10:04:51 pm »
Well she (assuming he's not lying) was texting him after the incident was supposed to have taken place. Now that doesn't of course make him innocent, but if true its strange behaviour. How will the inquiry get to the bottom of it? Were there witnesses, as at the moment its he said she said?

No it isn't. Victims have a lot to process and react in a number of ways. Trying to regain control, denial, wanting to forget - all these could explain why she behaved the way she appears to have done. It is part of what's called the outward adjustment phase - pretending that everything's fine because you can't cope with what's happened to you.
« Last Edit: November 4, 2017, 10:07:51 pm by Bioluminescence »

Offline Trada

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #25 on: November 4, 2017, 10:06:56 pm »
Looks like at least a couple of stories tomorrow.

Tory whip Chris Pincher made unwanted advances to male Tory activist Source: Mail on Sunday

SUNDAY TIMES: Police: We found porn on deputy PM’s computers specialist cops had to examine "extreme" porn on deputy PM Damian Green's parliamentary computer

TELEGRAPH FRONT PAGE: May’s aides ‘sat on’ claims of Tory sleaze
« Last Edit: November 4, 2017, 10:32:07 pm by Trada »
Don't blame me I voted for Jeremy Corbyn!!

Miss you Tracy more and more every day xxx

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Offline Elmo!

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #26 on: November 4, 2017, 10:20:13 pm »
As everyone suspected, a lot more to Fallons resignation.

Quote
Revealed: why Michael Fallon was forced to quit as defence secretary

Journalist’s accusation of sexual harassment was final straw for Theresa May after series of allegations

The dramatic circumstances of Sir Michael Fallon’s sudden resignation as defence secretary last week can be revealed by the Observer.

The cabinet heavyweight’s shock departure on Wednesday followed a phone call from the journalist, Jane Merrick, who informed Downing Street that he had lunged at her and attempted to kiss her on the lips in 2003 after they had lunched together.

The revelation was the tipping point for No 10, which the Observer understands had been compiling a list of alleged incidents involving Fallon since claims against him were first made.


Guardian Today: the headlines, the analysis, the debate - sent direct to you
 Read more
After Fallon’s attempt to kiss her, Merrick, then a 29-year-old junior political reporter at the Daily Mail, said she “shrank away in horror and ran off to my office in the Press Gallery”. Writing in the Observer, she said: “I felt humiliated, ashamed. Was I even guilty that maybe I had led him on in some way by drinking with him? After years of having a drink with so many other MPs who have not acted inappropriately towards me, I now know I was not.”

A friend of Fallon confirmed the incident took place. “Michael realises this kind of incident was unacceptable which is why he had to resign,” they said.

Merrick said she decided to contact Downing Street after becoming aware of other, more recent allegations against Fallon. She has written about the incident before, choosing not to identify Fallon, but his behaviour after further allegations last week convinced her to name him. She writes that Fallon “has denied some allegations, and minimised others as somehow acceptable because they date from another time. His lack of contrition has made me change my mind.”

On Tuesday, the Sun revealed that Fallon had admitted to repeatedly touching the journalist Julia Hartley-Brewer’s knee at a conference dinner 15 years ago.

Merrick writes: “The impression was being left that this was a one-off incident that could now be laughed off. I knew that by failing to act I was letting down not only my 29-year-old self, but also any other women who may have been subjected to the same behaviour since. More importantly, I would be failing to protect other women in future.”

On Thursday evening, it emerged that the Commons leader, Andrea Leadsom, had informed Downing Street earlier in the week about lewd remarks Fallon had made to her, a claim he denied.

Merrick writes: “Once again, some were dismissing the remarks as trivial, the sort of banter that goes on in workplaces across the country. By continuing to stay silent now, I was still running away from Fallon, just as I ran away from him in 2003. I decided it was time to come forward and name him. I want him to know that, however long ago this incident was, his behaviour was unacceptable.”

Her approach to No 10 triggered a swift reaction. “At 5pm on Wednesday afternoon, I contacted Downing Street to report the 2003 incident to one of the prime minister’s aides,” Merrick writes. “By 7.30pm, Fallon had resigned, admitting his behaviour towards women in the past had ‘fallen short’ of the high standards of the Armed Forces.”

Messages left seeking comment from Fallon went unreturned. However, he told the Times on Saturday: “I’ve already accepted that I have behaved inappropriately in the past.”

Merrick’s account offers a corrective to the suggestion that Fallon was forced out because of his alleged comments to Leadsom. Rather, it seems a pattern of allegedly unacceptable behaviour over the course of many years was the real reason for his spectacular fall. Leadsom told No 10 and the whips’ office about Fallon’s alleged comments early last week. However, the Observer understands she insisted on anonymity and did not want to make a formal complaint. When her allegations leaked, fingers were pointed at the former chief whip, Gavin Williamson, who replaced Fallon. Williamson’s office has denied that he had any role in the leak.

Theresa May can ill afford suggestions of a power struggle between the leader of the house and the defence secretary as the drip-feed of allegations threatens to engulf the government while it is supposed to be focused on Brexit. The toxic claims, which include an allegation that May’s closest ally, Damian Green, behaved inappropriately with a female journalist, a claim he denies, have dismayed many of the Tory old guard who fear what it could do to the party.

Tory MP Sir Roger Gale on Saturday warned of a witch-hunt as accusations of sexual harassment continue to swirl. He said MPs and others were on a “hiding to nothing” as it was difficult to refute claims from years ago. His comments were swiftly rejected by Labour MP Harriet Harman, who told the BBC: “No, it’s not a witch-hunt; it’s long overdue.”

Gale was speaking after the Tory MP Charlie Elphicke said he was unaware of the nature of “serious allegations” against him, which the Tory party says it has passed to police. The chief whip, Julian Smith, has confirmed that Elphicke has been suspended but would not elaborate further. The Dover and Deal MP has denied any wrongdoing and complained that the media had been told of his suspension before he had.

Meanwhile, a string of Labour MPs have had to respond to accusations: Clive Lewis denied a claim that he groped a woman at conference in September; former Foreign Office minister Ivan Lewis rejected claims he had made non-consensual sexual advances towards women; Kelvin Hopkins “categorically” denied allegations of inappropriate conduct made by activist Ava Etemadzadeh.

Shadow chancellor John McDonnell called for party leaders to agree new procedures when they meet later this week. “We have had sexual harassment across all the political parties by the looks of it. So we have got to tackle it,” he said.

And Scottish childcare minister Mark McDonald resigned on Saturday after allegations regarding his private life. The MSP for Aberdeen Donside apologised “unreservedly to anyone I have upset or who might have found my behaviour inappropriate”.

Lord Bew, chairman of the committee on standards in public life, said outside bodies needed to be involved in investigating the allegations. “It is vital there are people outside parliament who can give some reassurance to the public that this is not just another cover-up,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/04/michael-fallon-defence-secretary-sexual-harassment

Offline hide5seek

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #27 on: November 5, 2017, 12:44:46 am »
No it isn't. Victims have a lot to process and react in a number of ways. Trying to regain control, denial, wanting to forget - all these could explain why she behaved the way she appears to have done. It is part of what's called the outward adjustment phase - pretending that everything's fine because you can't cope with what's happened to you.
I understand all that but unless others come forward/he admits wrong doing (highly unlikely), I really can't see this going forward as at the moment its very much he said she said. Of course if he is guilty then that is sad (not sure of another word to use here).

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #28 on: November 5, 2017, 09:10:12 am »
No it isn't. Victims have a lot to process and react in a number of ways. Trying to regain control, denial, wanting to forget - all these could explain why she behaved the way she appears to have done. It is part of what's called the outward adjustment phase - pretending that everything's fine because you can't cope with what's happened to you.

Oh get a fucking grip. We’re talking about him potentially hugging her a bit too enthusiastically not a serious sexual assault. If those text messages are true, she’s lying about how uncomfortable it made he feel. She’s potentially lying about the entire episode.

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #29 on: November 5, 2017, 09:17:00 am »
Oh get a fucking grip. We’re talking about him potentially hugging her a bit too enthusiastically not a serious sexual assault. If those text messages are true, she’s lying about how uncomfortable it made he feel. She’s potentially lying about the entire episode.

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #30 on: November 5, 2017, 09:22:12 am »
Oh get a fucking grip. We’re talking about him potentially hugging her a bit too enthusiastically not a serious sexual assault. If those text messages are true, she’s lying about how uncomfortable it made he feel. She’s potentially lying about the entire episode.
I don’t know the truth of the situation, none of us does.


But I know enough about abuse, abusers and victims that we should read nothing into those text messages....
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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #31 on: November 5, 2017, 10:18:34 am »
Oh get a fucking grip. We’re talking about him potentially hugging her a bit too enthusiastically not a serious sexual assault. If those text messages are true, she’s lying about how uncomfortable it made he feel. She’s potentially lying about the entire episode.

You need to read up on how these things work. Do you think all the women coming out with stories about Weinstein were lying about the abuse? Women are under huge pressure to normalise and accept abuse (at all levels) because of the way society works.

 
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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #32 on: November 5, 2017, 10:25:02 am »
Its not just sexual its also bullying.

I remember in one of my first jobs in a factory I was really shy and every breaktime this girl would start on me shouting across the canteen in front of everyone things like did I have sex last night what did I get up to all types of things like that.

It went on for months I hated every break because she would start and no one told her to stop and I couldnt even tell the union because she was the union rep.

The only reason I think she did it was because I was shy I came very close to punching her a couple of times.

It only mostly stopped when Tracy got a job there and one break she started again and Tracy got up and had a right go at her and gave her a right dressing down in front of everyone.

That stopped 90% of it but she would still do it if Tracy wasnt there.
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Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #33 on: November 5, 2017, 12:00:04 pm »
Oh get a fucking grip. We’re talking about him potentially hugging her a bit too enthusiastically not a serious sexual assault. If those text messages are true, she’s lying about how uncomfortable it made he feel. She’s potentially lying about the entire episode.

You might want to start listening to women instead of being a jerk. You don't get to decide how a woman should feel after she's been harassed/assaulted/raped. We get this constantly. Complete strangers  and men that I know have done everything from mildly harass me to seriously sexually assault me. The fact is, we have no way of knowing what a man is capable of, which means we have to be hyper vigilant most of the time. It wears us down. A hand on the knee can quickly and easily turn into a serious sexual assault, and this knowledge means that a hand on a knee can seriously impact a woman. Go and educate yourself.

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #34 on: November 5, 2017, 12:02:08 pm »
You need to read up on how these things work. Do you think all the women coming out with stories about Weinstein were lying about the abuse? Women are under huge pressure to normalise and accept abuse (at all levels) because of the way society works.

 

Even 20 years ago the very idea of going to the police and claiming that you had been abused was anthemma in most walks of life, we only need to see how the Catholic church fought tooth and nail to dissuade such victims from coming forward.

I suspect that if I had gone to the police about my abuse now, rather than in the mid 90s like I did, that with the awareness being what it is, I would have seen my abuser been found Guilty rather than the not guilty verdict I got. Even if these cases go to trial, and I suspect a few of them won't - the likelihood of seeing any convictions are for me rather unlikely. See Lord Janner for reasons...

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #35 on: November 5, 2017, 12:13:36 pm »
Words fail me

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Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #36 on: November 5, 2017, 12:19:45 pm »
I understand all that but unless others come forward/he admits wrong doing (highly unlikely), I really can't see this going forward as at the moment its very much he said she said. Of course if he is guilty then that is sad (not sure of another word to use here).

My point was simply that her behaviour doesn't contradict her claim. It's actually not an unusual reaction for victims to have. I'm not saying it proves his guilt, but it certainly doesn't absolve him of any wrongdoing.

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #37 on: November 5, 2017, 12:25:02 pm »
My point was simply that her behaviour doesn't contradict her claim. It's actually not an unusual reaction for victims to have. I'm not saying it proves his guilt, but it certainly doesn't absolve him of any wrongdoing.

Agree with this. I didn't realise that the abuse that I went through wasn't common until I saw how my school dealt with a friend who had been assaulted by a classmate - hence why I spoke out.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #38 on: November 5, 2017, 12:37:22 pm »
Words fail me



I was going to write ‘unbelievable’ but sadly it’s not. Like Quentin Letts in HIGNFY he really doesn’t get it. ‘Girls’ should just shut up and know their place.
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Offline Bioluminescence

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Re: The Westminster and Holyrood Sleaze Pits - No Party Politics
« Reply #39 on: November 5, 2017, 12:57:10 pm »
Agree with this. I didn't realise that the abuse that I went through wasn't common until I saw how my school dealt with a friend who had been assaulted by a classmate - hence why I spoke out.

For what it's worth I have a huge amount of respect for people who speak out. I've read some of what you endured and it's heartbreaking. The conviction rate for CSA is just terrible. So many children let down and so many adults having to live with the consequences of it.