Topic: Tories really really aren't very nice at all are they? (***)

[Elmo!]

They should raise it to 68 immediately.

If it's got to go there, why not now?

To allow people to prepare... (I take it you mean raise it to 68 for everyone right now including for example people currently 66 expecting to retire in the next year).

[TepidT2O]

To allow people to prepare... (I take it you mean raise it to 68 for everyone right now including for example people currently 66 expecting to retire in the next year).

Not fair on the young though surely?

Those under 47 (?) will have to pay for these pensions.  Why shouldn't the older generation pay for it too.

That would be fairer.

The real answer is that these people might vote Tory...

[Elmo!]

Not fair on the young though surely?

Those under 47 (?) will have to pay for these pensions.  Why shouldn't the older generation pay for it too.

That would be fairer.

The real answer is that these people might vote Tory...

It's not fair on some group either way.... have to find the right balance. It should have been raised ages ago instead of leaving it this late and not giving people enough notice.

[west_london_red]

Not fair on the young though surely?

Those under 47 (?) will have to pay for these pensions.  Why shouldn't the older generation pay for it too.

That would be fairer.

The real answer is that these people might vote Tory...

Seems the Tories didn't learn the lessons of the last election and will continue to look after their core vote off the backs everyone who isn't approaching or already retired.

[finchy1972]

Great stuff, as I work for Royal Mail and I walk between 11 and 13 miles a day im sure it won't be a problem at all for me to do at 68 what I do now at 45 , all in the set 4 hours Delivery span I have . Yeah it should be a breeze.

[idontknow]

i was in the ESA support group for nearly 4 years and had a work capability assesment a few months back in Mann Island and scored 0 points out of 15 when my health as actually worsened since my last WCA when i was put in the support group. How the fuck do these nazi c*nts get away with this kind of treatment. After the last assesment at Mann Island i felt like just walking into the fucking mersey it was such a inhumane experience.

My benefits have gone from 125 quid a week to 73 quid a week jobseekers allowance. i get 208 quid less a month. Its no coincidence that my anxiety and panic attacks have been constant for the last 3 months. i am now expected to look for work when my doctor has signed me off for work with my deteriorating mental health but the job centre as the power to refuse the doctors note. i have requested a mandatory reconsideration on the decision but this takes maybe a month or so and then if they still dont reverse the decision i will have to appeal to a independent tribunal which will take probably 9 or 12 months. i cant afford to live on 73 quid a week for 9 or 12 months waiting for the appeal so im going have to get a job when i am not fit for work.

i dont like to divulge personal info online but i feel its important to expose what these tory c*nts and the DWP are doing to the sick, vulnerable and disabled.

Hope you're ok, look after yourself.

I was at Mann Island in February and my carer was with me and actually asked the assessor how many people had jumped into the Mersey after an assessment.
Took me back, certainly took the assessor back, but thinking might have got points for it, just in case.

I wish the best to anyone who has to go to an assessment.

[Andy @ Allerton!]

Not fair on the young though surely?

Those under 47 (?) will have to pay for these pensions.  Why shouldn't the older generation pay for it too.

That would be fairer.

The real answer is that these people might vote Tory...

Er. Everyone has paid for those pensions. All their lives. People growing up now will pay those pensions like everyone before them.  If it needs more money - then get more money in. It's worth it for everyone. To secure their long term future. Steps should be taken into Government to see where that money has gone as well.


You still claim you're a teacher?

[cdav]

Er. Everyone has paid for those pensions. All their lives. People growing up now will pay those pensions like everyone before them.  If it needs more money - then get more money in. It's worth it for everyone. To secure their long term future. Steps should be taken into Government to see where that money has gone as well.

You still claim you're a teacher?

It has to be sustainable at all times though doesn't it- not just in 20 years time after a lot of the current pensioners have passed away. There is a huge demographic issue coming where there will be an extra 5 million people over the age of 65 in the next 20 years- and these selfish bastards have voted for Brexit because of immigrants when we actually need these young people to come and work to increase the working population and tax base. Its been kicked into the long grass by all parties for a number of years because it is not a vote winner but the crunch is coming.

There is already a huge disparity between what young people like me will get through a defined contribution scheme compared to what people who have retired are on through the defined benefit schemes. The company I work for has a large deficit in the old scheme that was closed about 8 years ago- I worked out the amount the company is contributing each year to this old scheme where 'everyone has paid in' could pay an extra £5k per year to every current employee.

But it feels like yet again its my generation are going to be shit on because we can't possibly ask the baby boomers to contribute when they have had the benefits of 60 years worth of free education, wealth from house price rises and governments bribing them. And don't get me started on them complaining about poor returns on their investments when they have cashed out some of their DB pensions and bought rental properties to hugely over charge young people to have a place to call home- the inequality is staggering.

[stewil007]

aren't we at a point as a society that we need to accept tax rises if we want to sustain the public purse? would a 1% raise in basic rate, 2% on higher rate and 3% on top rate bring everybody to their knees.

I've no idea how much that would bring in, but surely it needs to be looked at

[Libertine]

aren't we at a point as a society that we need to accept tax rises if we want to sustain the public purse? would a 1% raise in basic rate, 2% on higher rate and 3% on top rate bring everybody to their knees.

I've no idea how much that would bring in, but surely it needs to be looked at

Yeah, some party should have suggested that at the election instead of the fiscal fantasy in the manifestos of the two major parties.

Oh wait, I'm sure a party did. But people prefer to believe they can have everything for nothing.

[SP]

Er. Everyone has paid for those pensions. All their lives. People growing up now will pay those pensions like everyone before them.  If it needs more money - then get more money in. It's worth it for everyone. To secure their long term future. Steps should be taken into Government to see where that money has gone as well.


You still claim you're a teacher?

State Pensions are a Ponzi scheme.

[TepidT2O]

Er. Everyone has paid for those pensions. All their lives. People growing up now will pay those pensions like everyone before them.  If it needs more money - then get more money in. It's worth it for everyone. To secure their long term future. Steps should be taken into Government to see where that money has gone as well.


You still claim you're a teacher?

That's not true though Andy, society would be better if we did have a savings scheme like that...

But the current working population are currently paying for pensioners pensions...

Today's pensioners paid for yesterdays pensioners etc...

[Andy @ Allerton!]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/official-figures-show-biggest-rise-crime-in-a-decade

Massively cut back on Police and then act all surprised that crime goes up..

[Andy @ Allerton!]

It has to be sustainable at all times though doesn't it- not just in 20 years time after a lot of the current pensioners have passed away. There is a huge demographic issue coming where there will be an extra 5 million people over the age of 65 in the next 20 years- and these selfish bastards have voted for Brexit because of immigrants when we actually need these young people to come and work to increase the working population and tax base. Its been kicked into the long grass by all parties for a number of years because it is not a vote winner but the crunch is coming.

There is already a huge disparity between what young people like me will get through a defined contribution scheme compared to what people who have retired are on through the defined benefit schemes. The company I work for has a large deficit in the old scheme that was closed about 8 years ago- I worked out the amount the company is contributing each year to this old scheme where 'everyone has paid in' could pay an extra £5k per year to every current employee.

But it feels like yet again its my generation are going to be shit on because we can't possibly ask the baby boomers to contribute when they have had the benefits of 60 years worth of free education, wealth from house price rises and governments bribing them. And don't get me started on them complaining about poor returns on their investments when they have cashed out some of their DB pensions and bought rental properties to hugely over charge young people to have a place to call home- the inequality is staggering.

So - pay more. Possibly much, much more.

It'll be worth it in the end to have a sustained life.

If the problem is that there isn't enough money in it, then put some money in it. It's like the NHS - just a bit more money and everything will be better. And the money you put in is well spent if you need it later in life.

[filopastry]

So - pay more. Possibly much, much more.

It'll be worth it in the end to have a sustained life.

If the problem is that there isn't enough money in it, then put some money in it. It's like the NHS - just a bit more money and everything will be better. And the money you put in is well spent if you need it later in life.

I've got late on the pension investment bandwagon but am hoping to have a decent pot by the time I retire.

The problem of course comes in the gap at the end of your career when to be blunt due to age and possibly decreasing health your current employer doesn't want to know about you and how long you have until you retire at that stage

[Trada]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/official-figures-show-biggest-rise-crime-in-a-decade

Massively cut back on Police and then act all surprised that crime goes up..

Police officer numbers fall to the lowest for 30 years.  and crime is on the up by 10% Hmm I wonder if these two things are linked.

[Trada]

Andrea Leadsom celebrates Jane Austen, "one of our greatest living authors"

[Trada]

I like how the Tories are taking credit for the ending of Credit card charges forgetting to say it was the EU who forced it though I guess next week they will be saying they put an end to EU roaming charges on mobile phones.

[SP]

So - pay more. Possibly much, much more.

It'll be worth it in the end to have a sustained life.

If the problem is that there isn't enough money in it, then put some money in it. It's like the NHS - just a bit more money and everything will be better. And the money you put in is well spent if you need it later in life.

It will cause huge difficulties. The pension timebomb has been long foreseen, the current generation of pensioners when they were net tax payers did not take any measures to ameliorate its effects. In fact they took pension holidays and blew the North Sea Oil money on tax cuts. They have retired early, benefited from house price booms. The current working population have been told that they will have to work longer to fund the costs of the current pensions. Further more, those same pensioners voted against immigration, one of the simplest ways to rebalance the demographics so there are more people to pay the costs of the current pensioners.

I cannot see how there will not be simmering resentment.

[TepidT2O]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/official-figures-show-biggest-rise-crime-in-a-decade

Massively cut back on Police and then act all surprised that crime goes up..

Interesting point that..

Crime has been falling since the early 90s.

Do we know of any correlation between police spending and teccrime rate?  Would be interesting to see

[classycarra]

Interesting point that..

Crime has been falling since the early 90s.

Do we know of any correlation between police spending and teccrime rate?  Would be interesting to see

This might be of interest

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0032258X15612702?journalCode=pjxa

and this more recent one

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315794349_Adding_More_Police_Is_Unlikely_to_Reduce_Crime_A_Meta-Analysis_of_Police_Agency_Size_and_Crime_Research

[Libertine]

Blair there 

[MaskedBenitez]

Theresa May poll: Satisfaction rating for Prime Minister 'worst in history' for month after general election



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/conservative-government-ipsos-mori-approval-ranking-trend-survey-popularity-a7850921.html

[Trada]

British police ’formally considering’ allegations Tories broke law due to call centre use

British police are formally considering allegations that the Conservatives broke the law during the election campaign with its use of a call centre in Wales, a Labour MP has said.

The UK’s  Shadow defence minister Wayne David said the Electoral Commission had written to him to confirm South Wales Police was considering the allegations over the call centre in Neath.

Secret footage obtained by Channel 4 News suggested the Tories may have broken data protection and election laws by using Blue Telecoms to directly contact voters in marginal seats.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/british-police-formally-considering-allegations-tories-broke-law-due-to-call-centre-use-798732.html

[BobOnATank]

I like how the Tories are taking credit for the ending of Credit card charges forgetting to say it was the EU who forced it though I guess next week they will be saying they put an end to EU roaming charges on mobile phones.

Also interesting that the government has gone further than the EU law to also include online charges BUT HOLD ON I thought we were being strangled by the EU tyrant, how could they choose another path on top of EU law, that seems strange......  I wonder if it was ever possible with other laws e.g. the one they love to hate, immigration, surely not and they are fighting the good fight for the greater good [/endsacrasm]

[SP]

Personally, I would prefer that they outlawed debit card surcharges, and capped credit card surcharges - with smaller shops allowed a higher rate to reflect higher charges. The current proposal will lead to price rises for all to cover the surcharge.

[BobOnATank]

Great stuff, as I work for Royal Mail and I walk between 11 and 13 miles a day im sure it won't be a problem at all for me to do at 68 what I do now at 45 , all in the set 4 hours Delivery span I have . Yeah it should be a breeze.

People unfortunately have short memories and it wasn't very long ago that a heart attack wasn't all that uncommon during commuting hours, many people dropped dead on the way to work. Now that we are inconveniencing the elite by living too long they think its a great idea to get back to the good old days. So if you could be so good as to kick the bucket just before or very soon after retirement so as not to a burden on society then the maybot of that day can say platitudes like this for your children to hear http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40653456 thanking you for your 'sacrifice'. Pisses me off no end.

I'm fortunate that it doesn't particularly apply to me but my sister-in-law who only has the state pension to rely on in future years and is in very manual work while starting to have arthritis issues in her 40s is a tory voter - go figure! She'll learn the very hard way.

[cdav]

Announced a scaling back of investment in rail around the country last Friday, today promise to back a £30bn Crossrail 2 project in London. They don't give a fuck about anyone in the North.

Its an absolute disgrace that there isn't a high speed line between the major Northern cities- Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, York and Newcastle. It is actually not much different to go via London between Liverpool and Newcastle (takes 3.5 hours) ffs.

[So… Howard Philips]

Announced a scaling back of investment in rail around the country last Friday, today promise to back a £30bn Crossrail 2 project in London. They don't give a fuck about anyone in the North.

Its an absolute disgrace that there isn't a high speed line between the major Northern cities- Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, York and Newcastle. It is actually not much different to go via London between Liverpool and Newcastle (takes 3.5 hours) ffs.

So much for the Northern Powerhouse.

[Zeb]

Andy Burnham isn't happy about it. This is one of the things he threw out, from 2014 but unlikely to have changed for the better.



https://www.statista.com/chart/2132/spending-per-head-on-transport-infrastructure/

[SP]

Are those figures ignoring expenditure on Roads? Much of that is devolved to councils, but it would come under most people's interpretation of transport.

[SP]

Also it irritates me that they have used a map with wrong regions on it.

[Libertine]

The extraordinary breakdown of cabinet discipline that has been on display in recent weeks is, of course, driven by personal ambition and leadership positioning unleashed by the prime minister’s catastrophic loss of authority. But it is no coincidence that the source of division is Britain’s relationship with its continental neighbours, the issue once described by Lord Patten, the former party chairman, as this country’s eternal “psychodrama”. The Tory party’s collective angst over Europe has already destroyed three Conservative prime ministers — Margaret Thatcher, John Major and David Cameron and it is now annihilating another.

“It’s done for all of them and it will do for Theresa May,” says one former cabinet minister. “The Tory party has a biblical curse on it over Europe because there are people who believe it is more important than party politics. I do think the party could split over the terms of the Brexit deal. There’s a group of Brexiteers who even if the Archangel Gabriel has delivered the perfect Brexit will be moaning about betrayal.”

Lovely stuff.....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b34e93c0-707d-11e7-8eac-856e9b33761e

[Thush]

Also it irritates me that they have used a map with wrong regions on it.

And that they have said "UK". It's not even all of England!


Also, do they mean spending per head of population in those areas?

[Zeb]

Are those figures ignoring expenditure on Roads? Much of that is devolved to councils, but it would come under most people's interpretation of transport.

It'll just be government infrastructure spending from HM Treasury publications. Minus stuff like decommissioning Sellafield, and not including pothole filling. IPPR has done some forecasting for 2016 - 2021 here. The regions are odd, yeah - suspect it's likely down to where the spending is being attributed.

[Trada]

They are saying they want all petrol and Diesel cars banned by 2040. of course nothing wrong with that it will happen at some point.

So I guess thats means people will stopped buying new cars before then who would pay all that money out knowing a ban is coming up.

does this means an end to vintage car rallies and super cars?

How will they make up for the lose in fuel duty? my guess the cars will be chipped and all roads will be tolls roads so much a mile something they can lower and rise like fuel duty.

[SP]

They are saying they want all petrol and Diesel cars banned by 2040. of course nothing wrong with that it will happen at some point.

So I guess thats means people will stopped buying new cars before then who would pay all that money out knowing a ban is coming up.

does this means an end to vintage car rallies and super cars?

How will they make up for the lose in fuel duty? my guess the cars will be chipped and all roads will be tolls roads so much a mile something they can lower and rise like fuel duty.

They said ban all NEW fossil fuel cars by then. Existing car stocks will be unaffected.

[Trada]

They said ban all NEW fossil fuel cars by then. Existing car stocks will be unaffected.

I see I heard that wrong thought they were banned from the roads then.

But I guess they will have to be stopped being sold before then because all the car makers with have to swap over long before the banned comes in I guess that will take time.

[Elmo!]

I see I heard that wrong thought they were banned from the roads then.

But I guess they will have to be stopped being sold before then because all the car makers with have to swap over long before the banned comes in I guess that will take time.

The rate things are going there will be no need for a ban - we will pretty much have reached that point anyway. Good PR for the government though.

[Trada]