Author Topic: The Anfield Wrap  (Read 3287002 times)

Online Fitzy.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27640 on: November 25, 2022, 07:14:50 pm »
This is a complete misrepresentation of my position. I don't think we should shut up about it. And I think we should do something about it. And I think we are obviously a superclub. One that makes different choices to, say, Barcelona, but one nonetheless.
This is all very well but please can you justify your interview with the club’s first team coach as it’s really really upset the best of the best on the bird app. I’m hearing we’re not far from a judicial inquiry…

Offline ljycb

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27641 on: November 27, 2022, 02:01:00 am »
Sorry, bit late to this as I haven't checked this page the past few days. I think it's fine to say that we are a superclub in terms of a lot of a lot of facets - worldwide fanbase, demand to see the team, brand recognition, how iconic the stadium is, financial turnover, success (both historical and recent).
As far as those parameters go, then yes, we are a superclub.

What I have a problem with, is saying it (like Neil Atkinson was in that context) as though we should just shut up about the rigged game  because we are a superclub and therefore can financially compete. Being a superclub in the sense that he was talking about is basically the domain of the financially doped petro clubs, and then Real Madrid and Man United. That's it. You could include Barcelona too, because they're still spending like crazy, but they're clearly spending money they don't really have. These are the only clubs that simply spend what they want and can be in the market for - to use a recent example - a Haaland. No one else can. And then using examples of us going big for Van Dijk and Alisson (nearly 5 years ago and at least partly funded by selling one of our best players) is, as I said before, misleading, and it's like doing the whataboutery of a City fan for them.

We are a very big, very well-run club, undoubtedly one of the big legacy brands of club football. If you mean 'superclub' in that way, then yes, we are one. But when it comes to transfers, even when it comes to wages, we aren't in the very top bracket. We're not even in the next bracket down from that since 2019.

I’m mostly a big fan of FSG and think if they leave tomorrow then their tenure will have been enormously positive, but I do think they’ve done a tremendous job of making a lot of our supporters believe we’re simply not capable of competing financially with other clubs. I don’t believe it for a second. Do I believe that we choose to approach the market in a different way? Absolutely, and rightly so for the most part. But I think our net spend (I won’t bring wages into it because we just are spending a lot of money in that regard) is far more to do with said approach than it is to do with anything related to how much money we have sloshing around.

Online Fitzy.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27642 on: November 27, 2022, 03:15:43 pm »
A point on FSG - I agree with - that I think had been aired on TAW is that they've been generally a force for good but they may not be the right owners as we enter an era of uninhibited spending.

Offline ljycb

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27643 on: November 27, 2022, 10:07:45 pm »
A point on FSG - I agree with - that I think had been aired on TAW is that they've been generally a force for good but they may not be the right owners as we enter an era of uninhibited spending.

I often wonder if Klopp’s fucked FSG up with regards to their approach. They wanted Jürgen in 2012, and at that point there was a big push from whoever was briefing the press that their approach was based around finding value in the market, improving the player attributed to that value and then selling the player on at a profit. Klopp had already shown at Dortmund that he was capable of taking players who didn’t cost much and turning them into world class footballers. He also had been able to take a smaller budget and use it to challenge teams with higher budgets in Germany. It made perfect sense to be interested in having him in charge.

The only problem is that a manager that good at a club as big as Liverpool meant that those players who he brought in were not interested in going anywhere else after a period of success, because they were already playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the best managers in the world and were challenging for all of the major honours. They were so successful that for the first time under FSG the best players were more interested in sticking around than looking to make a “step up” to one of the two big Spanish sides or even a Manchester City (like Sterling wanted to in 2015). So that big transfer fee coming in has stopped happening.

And now we’re coming to a point where we need to make refreshments to a world class group of players and the problem they’re facing is that the money required to do that goes against all of the club’s previous approaches to the market. There is no one who can be sold to mean that the net spend (FFP) stays within a certain parameter and all of the players who would vastly improve us are going to cost a ridiculous amount of money. I don’t know. I just wonder if this is playing a part in a lot of what’s happening now.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27644 on: November 28, 2022, 01:38:25 pm »
I often wonder if Klopp’s fucked FSG up with regards to their approach. They wanted Jürgen in 2012, and at that point there was a big push from whoever was briefing the press that their approach was based around finding value in the market, improving the player attributed to that value and then selling the player on at a profit. Klopp had already shown at Dortmund that he was capable of taking players who didn’t cost much and turning them into world class footballers. He also had been able to take a smaller budget and use it to challenge teams with higher budgets in Germany. It made perfect sense to be interested in having him in charge.

The only problem is that a manager that good at a club as big as Liverpool meant that those players who he brought in were not interested in going anywhere else after a period of success, because they were already playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world with one of the best managers in the world and were challenging for all of the major honours. They were so successful that for the first time under FSG the best players were more interested in sticking around than looking to make a “step up” to one of the two big Spanish sides or even a Manchester City (like Sterling wanted to in 2015). So that big transfer fee coming in has stopped happening.

And now we’re coming to a point where we need to make refreshments to a world class group of players and the problem they’re facing is that the money required to do that goes against all of the club’s previous approaches to the market. There is no one who can be sold to mean that the net spend (FFP) stays within a certain parameter and all of the players who would vastly improve us are going to cost a ridiculous amount of money. I don’t know. I just wonder if this is playing a part in a lot of what’s happening now.
An interesting take. Kind of in the ballpark of 'Your biggest strength is your biggest weakness'.

Online Fitzy.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27645 on: November 28, 2022, 04:27:58 pm »
On the Ljinders stuff, which I enjoyed.

I think I’ve missed a memo but from what I’m seeing, Pep appears to be the new lightening rod for Twitter’s LFCFam whoppery. That weird groupthink that happens when all of a sudden everyone has the exact same thick opinion without really knowing why. We all hate Ljinders now, is it?

Offline redgriffin73

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27646 on: November 28, 2022, 04:30:56 pm »
On the Ljinders stuff, which I enjoyed.

I think I’ve missed a memo but from what I’m seeing, Pep appears to be the new lightening rod for Twitter’s LFCFam whoppery. That weird groupthink that happens when all of a sudden everyone has the exact same thick opinion without really knowing why. We all hate Ljinders now, is it?

Probably the same lot who decided to blame a few poor games on Buvac leaving.
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Offline ljycb

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27647 on: November 28, 2022, 07:44:05 pm »
On the Ljinders stuff, which I enjoyed.

I think I’ve missed a memo but from what I’m seeing, Pep appears to be the new lightening rod for Twitter’s LFCFam whoppery. That weird groupthink that happens when all of a sudden everyone has the exact same thick opinion without really knowing why. We all hate Ljinders now, is it?

Yep, a lot of supporters seem to be on that train at the moment, with the main reasons being "He's written a book! :no" and "He rates our players highly! :no".

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27648 on: November 29, 2022, 08:45:12 am »
Yep, a lot of supporters seem to be on that train at the moment, with the main reasons being "He's written a book! :no" and "He rates our players highly! :no".
“Needs sacking” I read yesterday.

The reason: he’s written a book.

The democratisation of twitter…everyone has a platform…great init?

Offline LuverlyRita

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27649 on: November 29, 2022, 09:25:41 am »
I think I’ve missed a memo but from what I’m seeing, Pep appears to be the new lightening rod for Twitter’s LFCFam whoppery. That weird groupthink that happens when all of a sudden everyone has the exact same thick opinion without really knowing why. We all hate Ljinders now, is it?
I'm getting the impression that if you drew a Venn diagram of those on social media who dislike FSG, Spirit of Shankly, The Anfield Wrap, Pep Ljinders, Curtis Jones and match-goers, you might end up with a single circle

Offline ljycb

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27650 on: November 29, 2022, 11:43:59 am »
I'm getting the impression that if you drew a Venn diagram of those on social media who dislike FSG, Spirit of Shankly, The Anfield Wrap, Pep Ljinders, Curtis Jones and match-goers, you might end up with a single circle

This is exactly right. My personal favourite is the ones who call themselves “high expectation fans” - they probably also regularly listen to the High Performance podcast with Jake Humphrey.

Offline Jean Girard

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27651 on: November 29, 2022, 12:15:57 pm »
Can someone explain to me what a Top Red actually is? As far as I have been able to make out it essentially means "Not a total c*nt". It's ridiculous. There's a mad conspiracy bang off the other side of LFC twitter at the moment. 

Went down the rabbit hole last night on some of the mud being slung at the Wrap lads - the word xenophobia and phrase, corporate shill, is being thrown around lightly these days - very dangerous game that. Kind of gross to read some of the stuff, and mildly concerning. 
And now, the matador shall dance with the blind shoemaker!

Online Fitzy.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27652 on: November 29, 2022, 03:33:25 pm »
This is exactly right. My personal favourite is the ones who call themselves “high expectation fans” - they probably also regularly listen to the High Performance podcast with Jake Humphrey.
...and have sit-down wees.

Offline Walshy nMe®

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27653 on: November 29, 2022, 04:34:11 pm »
Just using my 18 inch guns to type this out btw

Offline Don Vito Corleone

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27654 on: November 29, 2022, 05:20:13 pm »
Just using my 18 inch guns to type this out btw

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
"I never wanted this for you. I work my whole life--I don't apologize--to take care of my family, and I refused to be a fool, dancing on the string held by all those bigshots. I don't apologize--that's my life--but I thought that, that when it was your time, that you would be the one to hold the string."

Offline ljycb

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27655 on: November 29, 2022, 05:28:24 pm »
Just using my 18 inch guns to type this out btw

Haha!

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27656 on: November 29, 2022, 07:20:39 pm »
Can you do Neil D merchandise? I’d buy it.
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27657 on: November 30, 2022, 07:14:02 am »
Just using my 18 inch guns to type this out btw

That has to be one of the most mental "Liverpool " exchanges I've read on there 😂
Meant to support Liverpool but doesn't even know of the HJC due to being before his time. Bonkers.

Offline red_Mark1980

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27658 on: November 30, 2022, 07:17:06 am »
It's all jokes until we realise they are "profiting" by the tune of nearly a fiver from ad revenue.

No wonder Andy is eating in Hawksmoor with Carra  ;D

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27659 on: November 30, 2022, 08:17:18 am »
“Needs sacking” I read yesterday.

The reason: he’s written a book.

The democratisation of twitter…everyone has a platform…great init?

I mean the whoppers will always find a way and we have our fair share, the crap that circulated during Rafa's reign was worse and social media didn't really exist.
:D

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27660 on: November 30, 2022, 12:55:32 pm »
I mean the whoppers will always find a way and we have our fair share, the crap that circulated during Rafa's reign was worse and social media didn't really exist.

It's different but similar to the way some folk think they're better informed about vaccines and epidemiology and such things than the experts who have dedicated their lives to these things.

Read something once and then let that incubate, formulate and develop into a fully-fledged opinion despite having virtually no understanding or knowledge of the subject which you are pontificating upon.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27661 on: November 30, 2022, 06:16:29 pm »
It's different but similar to the way some folk think they're better informed about vaccines and epidemiology and such things than the experts who have dedicated their lives to these things.

Read something once and then let that incubate, formulate and develop into a fully-fledged opinion despite having virtually no understanding or knowledge of the subject which you are pontificating upon.

That really does nail it, at least with football it's largely harmless. People like Wakefield who fabricated the MMR vaccine & autism link should be facling lengthy prison time. Instead he has an army of parents (and conspiracy nuts) following him because he provided a simple answer to a horrible question.

I guess Lijnders is the zonal marking for the current generation.
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Offline Big Bamber

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27662 on: November 30, 2022, 11:22:31 pm »
Great this from ex-TAW legend Robbo.


https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/11/football-what-comes-next-for-liverpool-and-is-there-a-tipping-point/

As I mentioned back up the thread, there is stuff I’d like to hear discussed on TAW that isn’t, which is understandable, and maybe a tiny part of it is because it threatens the whole house of cards. Robbo’s thoughts in this article are an example.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27663 on: December 1, 2022, 07:56:15 am »
Great this from ex-TAW legend Robbo.


https://www.thisisanfield.com/2022/11/football-what-comes-next-for-liverpool-and-is-there-a-tipping-point/

As I mentioned back up the thread, there is stuff I’d like to hear discussed on TAW that isn’t, which is understandable, and maybe a tiny part of it is because it threatens the whole house of cards. Robbo’s thoughts in this article are an example.

Just came in here to post this myself.

Really good article and sums up quite well a lot of my thoughts on the current situation.

The line about filling in panini sticker books etc really resonated with me.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27664 on: December 1, 2022, 10:02:39 am »
Very good article. I saw the headline and didn't read it because it looked a bit depressing but didn't realise it was by Robbo. But he's on the money isn't he?

I've seen lots of comments on here, maybe from people of a certain age, talking about walking away and their own personal reasons why, but they're all covered in there.

I still love the actual game of football, it's a wonderful, fluid game capable of generating incredible excitement. But even the actual 90+ minutes has been reduced to farce by inept officials, inept management of officials and even worse governance of the laws of the game that has allowed cheating and shithousery to flourish; and even be lauded by some of the commentariat, depending on where you come from and the team you play for.

Then you get onto all the other things that Robbo mentioned in his article which make any attempt to follow the game beyond the narrowest of media, a challenge to your mental health at worst, and at best making you shake your head at what society has become.

That fan partisanship has been allowed to infest the mainstream media, is an act of negligence and short termism that has made the game virtually unwatchable. On the rare occasion that you actually enjoy a game on telly, you realise it's because the coverage is professional, informative and without agenda. The rest of the time, which certainly causes me to either watch with the sound off or increasingly not bother at all, coverage is of the sort that would make Russian, Chinese, or even the RWP in this country embarrassed.

I could go on, but the bottom line is that there are too many people with their snouts in the trough. Owners, players, agents, governing bodies, media, even some elements of fan media to name a few. All bear some responsibility for making the game the shitshow it currently is.

The only solution as I see it is to cut off funding. Why should our fans be subject to the crap we regularly get served up by BT and SKY? If we keep buying it there's no incentive to change. Don't buy their shitty papers, don't buy their overpriced cup final tickets, don't ring their shitty phone ins.

Sorry rant over, I only meant to say how much I enjoyed Robbo's article - good to see him writing again.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27665 on: December 1, 2022, 01:41:30 pm »
I was at the Spurs away game mentioned on On This Day. Great fun! And had forgotten about the Rafa La Bamba.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27666 on: December 1, 2022, 11:16:13 pm »
Very good article. I saw the headline and didn't read it because it looked a bit depressing but didn't realise it was by Robbo. But he's on the money isn't he?

I've seen lots of comments on here, maybe from people of a certain age, talking about walking away and their own personal reasons why, but they're all covered in there.

I still love the actual game of football, it's a wonderful, fluid game capable of generating incredible excitement. But even the actual 90+ minutes has been reduced to farce by inept officials, inept management of officials and even worse governance of the laws of the game that has allowed cheating and shithousery to flourish; and even be lauded by some of the commentariat, depending on where you come from and the team you play for.

Then you get onto all the other things that Robbo mentioned in his article which make any attempt to follow the game beyond the narrowest of media, a challenge to your mental health at worst, and at best making you shake your head at what society has become.

That fan partisanship has been allowed to infest the mainstream media, is an act of negligence and short termism that has made the game virtually unwatchable. On the rare occasion that you actually enjoy a game on telly, you realise it's because the coverage is professional, informative and without agenda. The rest of the time, which certainly causes me to either watch with the sound off or increasingly not bother at all, coverage is of the sort that would make Russian, Chinese, or even the RWP in this country embarrassed.

I could go on, but the bottom line is that there are too many people with their snouts in the trough. Owners, players, agents, governing bodies, media, even some elements of fan media to name a few. All bear some responsibility for making the game the shitshow it currently is.

The only solution as I see it is to cut off funding. Why should our fans be subject to the crap we regularly get served up by BT and SKY? If we keep buying it there's no incentive to change. Don't buy their shitty papers, don't buy their overpriced cup final tickets, don't ring their shitty phone ins.

Sorry rant over, I only meant to say how much I enjoyed Robbo's article - good to see him writing again.

Don’t apologize. Great post. Hope it’s read on the next main show!

Offline ewok-red-97

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27667 on: December 2, 2022, 10:14:46 am »
Those football miracles episodes were great. The Twitter threads were a good reminder too.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27668 on: December 2, 2022, 11:12:11 am »
Yes agreed. Also, the flat-earthers episode was mentioned and I wanted to listen to it again but I couldn't find it in my podcast app. Is it gone?

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27669 on: December 2, 2022, 12:23:27 pm »
I enjoyed Robbo's article, and it will definitely chime - in part at least - with how a lot of people view football and the circus that comes with it. Much of football 'chat' has certainly become a bit of a hellscape; indulging in really tired one-upmanship and low-life accusations. Just grim and off-putting.

My only challenge to Robbo and to having this position (of which I am certainly drawn to) is that it's tied into being of a certain age. If you have sepia-tinted visions of a more innocent past, where money wasn't King and footballers weren't impossibly rich then that's great...to some degree. I look back at my Football 86 sticker album with a damp-eyed nostalgia that I cannot shift. But there are loads of things about modern football that are better - accessibility via TV/internet, less crowd violence, better playing surfaces, attitudes in grounds etc.

My point is that I think we have to caution being old men screaming at clouds. Yes, you've earned your stripes, you've lived the game for decades and spent a king's ransom doing it. But I'm not particularly keen to share that cynicism with the younger generation who are stepping towards these experiences for the first time; with wide-jawed awe and wonder. It's their turn to be consumed by all this...and it'll be their turn to be spat out the other side in a few decades time.

Of course, Robbo isn't advocating being miserable to the youth about enjoying football. However, I think offering a personal take of this nature on the ills of the game does step towards 'better in my day' territory, whether you like it or not. It may well be time for him to give the gig up and leave it behind - absolutely reasonable and something that comes to a lot of folk.

Offline Charlie Adams fried egg

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27670 on: December 2, 2022, 12:56:59 pm »
I enjoyed Robbo's article, and it will definitely chime - in part at least - with how a lot of people view football and the circus that comes with it. Much of football 'chat' has certainly become a bit of a hellscape; indulging in really tired one-upmanship and low-life accusations. Just grim and off-putting.

My only challenge to Robbo and to having this position (of which I am certainly drawn to) is that it's tied into being of a certain age. If you have sepia-tinted visions of a more innocent past, where money wasn't King and footballers weren't impossibly rich then that's great...to some degree. I look back at my Football 86 sticker album with a damp-eyed nostalgia that I cannot shift. But there are loads of things about modern football that are better - accessibility via TV/internet, less crowd violence, better playing surfaces, attitudes in grounds etc.

My point is that I think we have to caution being old men screaming at clouds. Yes, you've earned your stripes, you've lived the game for decades and spent a king's ransom doing it. But I'm not particularly keen to share that cynicism with the younger generation who are stepping towards these experiences for the first time; with wide-jawed awe and wonder. It's their turn to be consumed by all this...and it'll be their turn to be spat out the other side in a few decades time.

Of course, Robbo isn't advocating being miserable to the youth about enjoying football. However, I think offering a personal take of this nature on the ills of the game does step towards 'better in my day' territory, whether you like it or not. It may well be time for him to give the gig up and leave it behind - absolutely reasonable and something that comes to a lot of folk.

You've raised some good points Fitzy. For example I try, really try not to push my cynicism on the younger generation (at least face to face  :)) because I remember what it felt like being on the wrong end of my own dad's move away from the game. Every single time I, or anyone else mentioned footy, we were treated to the fact that he was no longer bothered and the myriad reasons why. One of which was the price increase for the Enclosure at Goodison in the 60's. Looking back, it was more a defence mechanism than anything else due to Everton's decline from the great side of the 60's/early 70's.

I also remember talking to and hearing about reds who've packed it in over the years, long before all the things many of us of a similar age have been moaning about. It's just a reminder that we all have our different jumping off points and the triggers for it.

But....
I do genuinely think that the current issues highlighted by Robbo, maybe individually but almost certainly collectively, represent far stronger reasons than any I heard previously about walking away. Ignoring the money; VAR, state ownership and the quality of coverage are 3 very good reasons. Your summary of the things that have improved only add to the frustration!

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27671 on: December 2, 2022, 01:11:45 pm »

But....
I do genuinely think that the current issues highlighted by Robbo, maybe individually but almost certainly collectively, represent far stronger reasons than any I heard previously about walking away. Ignoring the money; VAR, state ownership and the quality of coverage are 3 very good reasons. Your summary of the things that have improved only add to the frustration!


Of those three, I think state ownership is an obvious point of ire amongst loads of people. It's awful and it's seeping into a variety of institutions - not just football clubs. I think the VAR thing will have diminishing impact as systems improve. As for the quality of coverage, I think that's a lot to do with how savvy we have become as an audience and how we're becoming increasingly intolerant of broad lazy analysis or 'banter' style chat that serves to provoke rather than educate. However, to counter the coverage issue, there are so many outlets - TAW being one of them - that you can really cherry pick how you consume the media that sits around football. I am extremely selective about what I engage with but still feel like my cup runneth over with high-quality analysis.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27672 on: December 2, 2022, 01:27:48 pm »
Charlie and Fitz, good discussion, enjoying reading it.

Please continue...
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27673 on: December 2, 2022, 02:23:59 pm »
Fair play to them for not covering the world cup, every other media outlet, youtuber etc has at best talked about the issues but then pressed ahead with 99 per cent of the coverage being about the sporting product garnishing the clicks and ad revenue off the back of it whilst criticising the hypocrisy of neville for taking the money whilst also earning from covering games played in tombs not stadia.

The wrap and Cantona the only real figures who have boycotted the sham. Fair play to them.
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27674 on: December 3, 2022, 10:55:38 am »
Has Chromecast support been removed from the TAW Android app lately?  The cast button that used to appear on videos seems to have gone. Casting from other apps is working fine so it's not my setup.

I'm running Android 13 on a Pixel 6

I want to be able to watch on my TV and the inability to do this has been the main factor in me not yet subscribing to video. Originally I thought I could just install the app on my Firestick but that doesn't work. I contacted TAW about this ages ago and they said they were working on it in a future update but as yet nothing. They did say that until then I could use a Chromecast and cast the videos to the TV. I didn't have one at the time but I've just got one, set it up, and now there's no cast button in the app!

They should just make sure that the main app works on Firesticks or similar (android devices other than phones). It's really not that hard.

« Last Edit: December 3, 2022, 11:08:11 am by MindGuerrillas »

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27675 on: December 5, 2022, 12:57:54 pm »
Just listening to FAQ as I walk round the park and I’m in tears listening to the Anna’s mum/Come on Eileen wedding chat.

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27676 on: December 5, 2022, 09:21:37 pm »
The podcast on tickets is worth a watch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mLQFlGC4t0
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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27677 on: December 6, 2022, 10:56:40 am »


the Jurgen 'docuseries' first part is stunning

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27678 on: December 6, 2022, 12:12:35 pm »
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/t2o_41EGckE" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/t2o_41EGckE</a>
:D

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Re: The Anfield Wrap
« Reply #27679 on: December 6, 2022, 02:01:13 pm »


good to see Rob is a brown sauce man