Poll

RAWK and Brexit

No Deal!
65 (8.8%)
Mays Deal!
14 (1.9%)
No Brexit!
539 (72.8%)
Don't Know
10 (1.4%)
Don't Care
15 (2%)
I don't live in the UK
97 (13.1%)

Total Members Voted: 740

Author Topic: Brexit: "Vultus inanis est et mori in fossa ego sum!"  (Read 1440367 times)

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13760 on: February 11, 2019, 01:52:43 pm »
It allows for an extension which is the key part, I think, as well as ensuring the Withdrawal Agreement itself becomes cross-party consensus (hoho). To some extent it may just be buying extra time to prep for 'no deal'. I don't think it would necessarily rule out a referendum to ratify whatever ends up being the end state of the political declaration - were remainers to lend support to the 'soft' Brexiters and vice versa. Although that's a hot mess of a compromise for everyone to find. Depends on how long an extension we would want to ask for too.

Comments such as Weyand's don't make the task of those seeking another referendum any easier, which is annoying when a referendum could lead to the EU's ideal outcome from this. It feels like a slap in the face to all those that have been campaigning for a Peoples Vote to be honest.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13761 on: February 11, 2019, 02:01:05 pm »
Comments such as Weyand's don't make the task of those seeking another referendum any easier, which is annoying when a referendum could lead to the EU's ideal outcome from this. It feels like a slap in the face to all those that have been campaigning for a Peoples Vote to be honest.

Without a viable plan agreed by parliament then a referendum could equally return the worst possible outcome for everyone. From the EU perspective, the ideal end state would be a 'soft' Brexit or an even more disadvantageous (to us) version of it. And while May is PM, and Corbyn present but not involved, then the EU is always going to prioritise something agreed with her over what's coming from the backbenches in parliament.

Was just reading through Ian Dunt's comments and he seems not a million miles away from what I'm saying.

"The thing to do now is to secure a extension of Article 50, which'll probably need to be for three months to get Commons support.

Then the battle is for UK participation in the May European parliamentary elections. This must happen. If we don't, then there is almost certainly no chance to extend Article 50 past July.

Things are bleak. This is a desperate rearguard defence against national hara-kiri. But then, that's what it has always been. Nothing has, er, changed."
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13762 on: February 11, 2019, 02:55:40 pm »
Peston (facebook) on changes to Corbyn's original letter to May and why both May and Corbyn would have to split their parties to find an agreement that would pass Parliament.

Not sure the opposition is meant to deliver on its losing manifesto all the same. And even government manifesto pledges are subject to political realities or the Tories would still be pushing the Poll Tax.

edit: more from Peston on Corbyn's letter being changed -

"I am told Keir Starmer is not the happiest member of the frontbench.  According to multiple sources, he had agreed that the final part of Corbyn’s letter to May would say “if you do not accept this [Brexit offer] there will be a People’s Vote”. One source tells me “LOTO [the leader of the opposition] agreed to this. But then Keir discovered after the letter had been sent and published that the People’s Vote para had gone”. Starmer “called LOTO and was told ‘oh we must have forgotten that paragraph’”. Apparently Starmer’s reaction has not been one of unbridled joy. And even erstwhile Corbyn loyalists are becoming grumpy at what they see as his refusal to follow the revealed will of Labour members and supporters that their should be a referendum. One said: “the only interest” of Corbyn and his aides is “seeing a Tory Brexit through so they can wash their hands of it”."

Any comment from Starmer on this yet?

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13763 on: February 11, 2019, 03:31:26 pm »
Any comment from Starmer on this yet?

Nada since the interview with The Sunday Times and the immediate row back with the letter to members and clarification for MPs.
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Offline Zeb

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13764 on: February 11, 2019, 04:02:42 pm »
Comments such as Weyand's don't make the task of those seeking another referendum any easier, which is annoying when a referendum could lead to the EU's ideal outcome from this. It feels like a slap in the face to all those that have been campaigning for a Peoples Vote to be honest.

Here's a fun clarification to chew over.

"Just to clarify: I said that I see no majority for a referendum in the HoC. I did not talk about polls or revocation." Sabine Weyand
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13765 on: February 11, 2019, 04:16:05 pm »
Here's a fun clarification to chew over.

"Just to clarify: I said that I see no majority for a referendum in the HoC. I did not talk about polls or revocation." Sabine Weyand

Nice to see her respond, and acknowledge the mood of the public (according to opinion polls) even if the MPs actions aren't following suit.

Is she suggesting that there may be a Commons majority for revoking Article 50 without holding another referendum? That's even less likely than a majority forming for another referendum IMO.

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13766 on: February 11, 2019, 04:30:21 pm »
Food industry warns Gove on Brexit 'crisis'

The UK food industry has threatened to stop co-operating with government policy consultations, saying it is busy trying to stave off the "catastrophic impact" of a no-deal Brexit.

The warning came in a letter to Environment Secretary Fuckwitted Pob lookalike Michael Gove from more than 30 business leaders.

They said it looked "ever more the likeliest outcome" that the UK would leave the EU without an agreement.

They added that it was a "moment of potential crisis" for their industry.

Those signing the letter included the heads of the Food and Drink Federation, the National Farmers' Union and UK Hospitality.

"Neither we nor our members have the physical resources nor organisational bandwidth to engage with and properly respond to non-Brexit related policy consultations or initiatives at this time," they wrote.

"Government has recruited many extra staff; we cannot."

The firms urge the government to place a range of current and planned industry consultations on "pause" until the Brexit uncertainty is over.

The consultations the firms cite include one relating to further curbs on the advertising of sugary foods, a national recycling collection strategy and proposals for a tax on plastic items with less than 30% recycled content.

The letter, first reported by Sky, is further evidence of the industry's frustration at the continuing lack of certainty over the Brexit process.

"Businesses throughout the UK food chain - and their trade associations - are now totally focused on working to mitigate the catastrophic impact of a no-deal Brexit," says the letter, which was sent last Friday.

"Large amounts of time, money, people and effort are being diverted to that end."

The letter comes just two weeks after major retailers warned MPs that a no-deal Brexit would cause huge disruption to the industry, leading to higher prices and empty shelves in the short-term.

Sainsbury's, Asda and McDonald's were among those who warned stockpiling fresh food was impossible, and that the UK was very reliant on the EU for produce.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47200688

Who needs experts anyway?

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13767 on: February 11, 2019, 04:32:39 pm »
https://medium.com/@carole_cadwalladr/andrew-neil-brexit-the-bbc-f4a569f6516a

Just reading this, it's lengthy, but beggars belief.

Neil should not really be on the Beeb.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13768 on: February 11, 2019, 04:37:52 pm »
Nice to see her respond, and acknowledge the mood of the public (according to opinion polls) even if the MPs actions aren't following suit.

Is she suggesting that there may be a Commons majority for revoking Article 50 without holding another referendum? That's even less likely than a majority forming for another referendum IMO.

Don't think you're wrong. Depends on whether MPs see the logical end result of failure to agree on anything but 'no deal' is bad? But that assumes logic etc etc.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13769 on: February 11, 2019, 04:48:14 pm »
David Davis: Pound plummeting under a no-deal Brexit 'might not be such a bad thing'

Quote
A 20% fall in the value of the pound in the event of a no-deal Brexit "might not be such a bad thing", David Davis has claimed.

The former Brexit secretary called on the government to deliver a "pro-business, pro-trade, pro-environment" exit from the EU, suggesting Chancellor Philip Hammond could cut taxes and increasing spending in a special no-deal spring budget.

Referring to predictions that sterling could plummet if Britain leaves at the end of March without an agreement with the EU in place, Mr Davis said: "Analysts predict that in the event of no deal, sterling could fall by over 20%. Is this such a bad thing?

"Our goods will become 20% more competitive on the global market and our EU competitors' goods would be less competitive."

A fall in the value of pound could push up inflation, which could mean everyday goods becoming more expensive and household budgets being squeezed.

But companies that export around the globe would find their goods would become cheaper in those markets.

Mr Davis, who was writing for The Times Red Box, said government and businesses should focus on the "possibilities" of Brexit.

Otherwise, there was the risk of "doom-laden talk" becoming a "fait accompli", he added.

He highlighted a "doom-laden" forecast from the Bank of England, which last week downgraded its growth prediction for 2019 from 1.7% to 1.2%.

Mr Davis said Bank governor Mark Carney "exemplifies an Establishment culture of seeing Brexit as a huge problem to be ameliorated rather than a once-in-a-generation opportunity which offers a prize and could reap massive rewards".

Quote
But Mr Davis referenced Project After, a purported plan by civil servants for tax cuts and tariff reductions in the event of no deal, as evidence of the "huge opportunities" such an outcome could offer.

"This could include cuts in VAT and corporation tax, a variety of tax reliefs to boost spending, and a wider review of the UK's regulatory regime after we leave the EU," he said.

https://news.sky.com/story/david-davis-pound-plummeting-under-a-no-deal-brexit-might-not-be-such-a-bad-thing-11634361

Nothing says anti-establishment more than tax cuts for the rich and less money for public services.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13770 on: February 11, 2019, 04:58:27 pm »
David Davis: Pound plummeting under a no-deal Brexit 'might not be such a bad thing'
Oh fuck off you utter lightweight (Davis that is, not you Shaka).  A 20% devaluation is a catastrophic failure, not a prize to be seized.  It makes us all 20% poorer.  If it means we work for 20% less THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING regardless of whether or not the ship steadies itself in due course.

Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13771 on: February 11, 2019, 05:04:47 pm »
Comments such as Weyand's don't make the task of those seeking another referendum any easier, which is annoying when a referendum could lead to the EU's ideal outcome from this. It feels like a slap in the face to all those that have been campaigning for a Peoples Vote to be honest.

It’s Russian Roulette. The ideal outcome (Remain) is possible but so is blowing your brains out.

If Parliament had voted to say No Deal means No Brexit then it would be worth pushing a referendum.
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Offline Alan_X

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13772 on: February 11, 2019, 05:08:22 pm »
David Davis: Pound plummeting under a no-deal Brexit 'might not be such a bad thing'

https://news.sky.com/story/david-davis-pound-plummeting-under-a-no-deal-brexit-might-not-be-such-a-bad-thing-11634361

Nothing says anti-establishment more than tax cuts for the rich and less money for public services.

He really wants the prize for stupidest former Brexit Secretary doesn’t he. Brain dead.
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13773 on: February 11, 2019, 05:11:14 pm »
He really wants the prize for stupidest former Brexit Secretary doesn’t he. Brain dead.
I'm still not sure he'd win.
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13774 on: February 11, 2019, 05:11:38 pm »
David Davis: Pound plummeting under a no-deal Brexit 'might not be such a bad thing'

https://news.sky.com/story/david-davis-pound-plummeting-under-a-no-deal-brexit-might-not-be-such-a-bad-thing-11634361

Nothing says anti-establishment more than tax cuts for the rich and less money for public services.
Yep, he's a thick, despicable, immoral c*nt
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13775 on: February 11, 2019, 05:12:18 pm »
David Davis: Pound plummeting under a no-deal Brexit 'might not be such a bad thing'

https://news.sky.com/story/david-davis-pound-plummeting-under-a-no-deal-brexit-might-not-be-such-a-bad-thing-11634361

Nothing says anti-establishment more than tax cuts for the rich and less money for public services.

I await the hysterical tabloid front pages about a run on the pound with baited breath... ::)
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13776 on: February 11, 2019, 05:41:50 pm »
Peston's been pretty chilled up to now about the whole thing. He's not any more. Facebook

Spoiler
Quote
Most MPs tell me they believe a no-deal Brexit is a remote prospect.

They are wrong.

I would argue it is the most likely outcome - unless evasive action is taken much sooner than anyone expects.

Here is why.

1) The probability is low of the PM securing substantial enough changes to the widely loathed backstop to win a vote for her deal exclusvely from Tory MPs, the DUP and a modest number of leave-supporting Labour MPs;

2) The probability is also low of the PM risking the break up of her party by pursuing all the way to a formal agreement the negotiations just started with Corbyn and Labour on a Brexit deal built on Labour's core condition that the UK must remain in the Customs Union.

3) The probability is better than evens that MPs will on 27 February vote to put a bill before parliament that would - if passed - force the PM to request a delay to the date the UK leaves the EU.

4) The probability is better than evens that MP and Lords subsequently pass that legislation which would force the PM to ask EU leaders to delay Brexit.

5) The probability is impossible to assess that every one of the EU 27's governments will give their assent to a request from the UK PM for a Brexit delay - and Brexit can only be delayed if there is unanimity.

6) If Brexit is delayed, it would probably not be for any longer than two or three months - or the maximum possible time that would not trigger an obligation on the UK to participate in elections for the European Parliament. A delay of two or three months would be highly unlikely to be long enough for MPs to work out what kind of Brexit deal, if any, they would support, and then to secure the assent for that from the EU's 27 leaders.

7) The leaders of the EU's 27 nations would take the view there is very little point in delaying Brexit at all unless it is clear what kind of Brexit deal would win a majority in the House of Commons.

8 ) There is no mechanism at present for assessing what kind of Brexit deal would win the support of MPs.

9) All the focus on the backstop, and the insurance policy for keeping open the border on the island of Ireland, has distracted from what is actually the biggest obstacle to a Brexit deal - which is that there is no consensus in parliament on what the UK's future long-term relationship with the EU should be.

9) If on 27 February MPs pass a motion that would then lead to votes in the Commons on what kind of Brexit or - or even no-Brexit via a referendum - would command a majority, there is no certainty that any option would win a consensus.

10) It is highly probable that it would take the UK at least another year to establish what kind of future relationship it wants with the EU - and probably longer to negotiate that relationship.

11) The probability of the EU giving the UK as long as it realistically needs to recover from its Brexit nervous breakdown and say with clarity what kind of future relationship it wants with the EU is infinitesimally tiny.

12) The history of the EU blinking at the last moment when the going gets tough is irrelevant here - because there are too many moving parts, and it is not at all clear what "blinking" would actually mean.

So just to personalise this for a moment, on Friday 12 September 2008 it was obvious to me that without a bailout, the investment bank Lehman would be dead on Monday morning, but that the consequences to all our prosperity of Lehman going down would be so momentous that the US authorities and government would find a route to save it. Come Sunday 14 September, I was reporting that Lehman would collapse and be taken into bankruptcy protection the following morning.

The rest is the painful history of the worst recession and blow to our living standards since the 1930s - which would not have been as acute if Lehman had not gone down.

Brexit feels eerily like Lehman 2.0, if in slightly slower motion and on the scale of a nation and continent.

DISCLAIMER: I make the Lehman analogy because both the government and EU leaders are explicit that a no-deal Brexit would have serious economic and security costs, just as the US (and UK) government, central bank and regulators knew that the collapse of Lehman would be an event that would impoverish us all. And yet they let it happen.
[close]

One point I'd make, in relation to his point 12, is that the idea that "the EU blinks at the last minute" is a very British perception of last minute changes to allow for unanimity between member states. We ain't a member state but a soon to be ex-member state in this. Better example might be looking to see whether the EU blinked in its negotiations with the US. Spoiler: nope.
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Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13777 on: February 11, 2019, 06:08:07 pm »
Quote
EXC: The founder of Nigel Frottage’s new Brexit Party has a long history of making inflammatory comments about Muslims. Frottage is refusing to say if he will continue to support the party six days after it was founded.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1094978991713333248

Quote
The Brexit Party founder's history of inflammatory comments do not just extend to Muslims. She has written about "Mongoloid eyes" and "white girls mixed with demented older black men". Frottage declining to say if he'll continue to support the party.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1094981486724481025

Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13778 on: February 11, 2019, 06:42:42 pm »
Supposed backer of no-ships Brexit ferry firm denies having a stake

Chris Grayling’s Brexit ferry fiasco has taken a further twist after the reported backer of the startup company with no ships that was awarded a £13.8m contract said it never had a stake in the venture.

Sources at Arklow Shipping, which operates 55 dry bulk vessels in northern Europe, said it had been in talks with Seaborne Freight twice last year, but it “never had any agreement” with either Seaborne or the Department for Transport to run a service from Ramsgate to Ostend.

The revelations came as the company behind Eurotunnel launched a high court action against the DfT, accusing the government of a “secretive and flawed procurement exercise” for the backup ferry service in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

It raises further questions over the transport secretary’s decision to award Seaborne the contract, which the government cancelled at the weekend, saying it had become clear the company could not fulfil it because Arklow had decided “to step back from the deal”.

Sources at Arklow said it had considered investing in Seaborne and providing two ferries, but saw itself as “just a prospective investor, probably in a long line of others”. When it was discovered last week that Seaborne did not have a port agreement in place in Ramsgate, it decided not to pursue talks any further.

“If you don’t have an agreement with a port, how can you run a ferry service?” the source said. “We never had an agreement with Seaborne, so when it was reported that we were a backer, that was not the case.

“Seaborne approached us a year ago and we had no further contact until the end of December. There was nothing signed, we were just prospective investors that they had approached like many others, I imagine. We had no agreements with Seaborne or with the Department for Transport.”

Downing Street said on Monday that Theresa May continued to have full confidence in Grayling, amid calls for his resignation.

The contract with Seaborne was announced at the end of December and quickly the subject of ridicule, after it emerged the company had no ships and appeared to have copied and pasted terms and conditions on its website from a pizza delivery business.

Arklow wrote to Grayling on 18 January stating it intended to provide equity finance for the purchase of two vessels and an equity stake in the project. However, in the past week, it discovered there was no deal for access to the port and decided not to proceed.

The DfT said Arklow’s backing had given it confidence in the viability of the deal and it stood by the due diligence carried out on Seaborne.

A spokesman for Seaborne said: “It is with regret that Seaborne Freight is not in a position to add any further comment, as we remain bound by a confidentiality clause with the DfT.”

Grayling is under further pressure to explain how Seaborne was awarded the contract after weekend reports that Ramsgate authorities could not afford to run the port.

Questions remain about the procurement process after the DfT relied on an emergency exemption provided for by the Public Contract Regulations 2015 to award the contract. Eurotunnel has accused the government of “anti-competitive” and “distortionary” behaviour.

Lawyers for Channel Tunnel Group Ltd and France-Manche SA, which operates the Channel Tunnel, say the contracts totalling £108m were awarded through a “secretive and flawed procurement process”. But the DfT argues the “extreme urgency” of no-deal preparations justified the process.

At a hearing in London on Monday, Eurotunnel’s barrister, Daniel Beard QC, said the procurement process for “additional capacity for transport of goods across the Channel” had been “undertaken without any public notice being issued”.

Ewan West, representing Grayling, told the judge the process was only for “maritime freight” services and, therefore, Eurotunnel “could never have provided that capacity” and “could not have complied” with the terms of the contracts.

The judge scheduled a four-day, expedited trial for 1 March, given the “obvious” urgency of the case and the “very important public interest matters” involved.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/11/supposed-backer-of-no-ships-ferry-firm-says-they-had-no-deal

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13779 on: February 11, 2019, 07:03:27 pm »
It's so depressing reading about this subject that I finally put pen to paper (email actually ;)) and wrote to my MP, Bill Esterson. Don't know if it will make any difference (highly doubtful) but I felt better for typing it out. Think people just feel helpless. It seems that there's not much the little people can do when incompetent politicians are playing silly beggars. Nothing wrong with letting them know what we think though!

"Dear Bill

I am 68 years old and have voted in every local and general election, plus various referendums, from when I was eligible to vote.

I am not a member of the Labour Party but have always cast my vote for the Labour Party candidate. Sadly, I am not sure that I can do that anymore. I cannot vote for the Tories so I have two choices...Lib Dems or leave my ballot paper blank.

The reason for this sad state of affairs? Jeremy Corbyn's stance on Europe and the Party's stance on antisemitism, brought to a head by the awful attempt by some of the Wavertree CLP to call a no confidence vote in respect of Ms Berger. I am not Jewish but the Party (certainly in Liverpool) gives the impression of regressing back to its old Militant days. I worked for Liverpool City Council then...I would hate to live through a period like that again.

Corbyn's stance on Europe is a disgrace. He isn't going to push for a peoples vote is he!? He's got his own agenda which seems to run counter to the majority of Labour supporters. I have to be honest and say that I did not greet his appointment as leader of the party with any enthusiasm and nothing he has done so far has led to a change of opinion. It comes to something when he comes third behind May and 'Don't know' in polls regarding the best leader for the country.

I am sure you would prefer not to receive emails such as this but members of the PLP need to know what the ordinary bloke (or woman) in the street feels about the state of the party. This is my take on it. I accept you may or may not agree with my comments but MP's need to feed such comments back into the party machinery. I trust you to do so on my behalf."


Offline Robinred

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13780 on: February 11, 2019, 07:54:57 pm »
https://medium.com/@carole_cadwalladr/andrew-neil-brexit-the-bbc-f4a569f6516a

Just reading this, it's lengthy, but beggars belief.

I did read it. I have made my views on the dumbing down and lack of neutrality (sometimes in the spurious name of balance) of the Beeb, and my utter dislike of Neil, on more than one occasion.

There are very knowledgeable and fair minded posters on here who have defended both the BBC and Andrew Neil.

Reading that might prompt them to change their minds.
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13781 on: February 11, 2019, 08:16:23 pm »
I did read it. I have made my views on the dumbing down and lack of neutrality (sometimes in the spurious name of balance) of the Beeb, and my utter dislike of Neil, on more than one occasion.

There are very knowledgeable and fair minded posters on here who have defended both the BBC and Andrew Neil.

Reading that might prompt them to change their minds.

He has been on dodgy ground for a long time.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13782 on: February 11, 2019, 08:20:59 pm »
https://medium.com/@carole_cadwalladr/andrew-neil-brexit-the-bbc-f4a569f6516a

Just reading this, it's lengthy, but beggars belief.
What a horrible snide c*nts Andrew Neil and his mate Banks are.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13783 on: February 11, 2019, 08:24:09 pm »
Any comment from Starmer on this yet?
think Milne has locked him in the supplies closet

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13784 on: February 11, 2019, 08:30:16 pm »
https://medium.com/@carole_cadwalladr/andrew-neil-brexit-the-bbc-f4a569f6516a

Just reading this, it's lengthy, but beggars belief.

Neil's always come across as a greasy slime ball to me.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13785 on: February 11, 2019, 08:59:48 pm »
It's being reported that May is seriously contemplating a No Deal Brexit because she is placing party unity above the country.

The substantive article is in the Huffington Post (which I won't link or visit because of their Oath system) but someone here might be OK with it and see what the evidence is. Apparently internal polls and focus groups indicate she is more popular when flagging no-deal.

Not very surprising, if true. What a catastrophe.
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13786 on: February 11, 2019, 09:07:30 pm »
It's being reported that May is seriously contemplating a No Deal Brexit because she is placing party unity above the country.

The substantive article is in the Huffington Post (which I won't link or visit because of their Oath system) but someone here might be OK with it and see what the evidence is. Apparently internal polls and focus groups indicate she is more popular when flagging no-deal.

Also rumours of a May election now too. So meh.

Here's the HuffPost for you though. (It's long.)

Spoiler
Quote
Almost exactly two years ago, Theresa May was sitting in her office in Downing Street, baffled by the stance of her pro-Remain rebel Tory MPs.

“Dominic Grieve and these people need to calm down,” an exasperated Prime Minister told her colleagues. “I’m not going to do anything crazy. I’m not going to just jump off a cliff.”

According to one of the people present, May was particularly indignant that Grieve and his small band of like-minded backbenchers were terrified by the prospect of a “hard” exit, or worse, a no-deal exit.

As she tried to navigate the tricky obstacles within and without her own party, “pragmatism” had been her watchword, she told the private meeting.

But fast forward to today, and there is a growing fear among some MPs that May is now indeed preparing to do “something crazy”, and allow the UK to crash out of the European Union without a Brexit agreement.

And with the clock ticking down to the planned exit day of March 29, some of those who know her best have told HuffPost UK that the PM is “thinking the unthinkable” of a no-deal departure.

May’s preferred option is to rescue her withdrawal agreement with the EU, by getting Brussels to agree a new legally binding form of words to assure both the Northern Irish DUP and restless Brexiteers that the UK won’t be tied indefinitely to EU trade rules.


Yet with a second “meaningful vote” on Brexit not due until possibly sometime next month, several Tory and Labour backbenchers are sceptical about their chances of stopping no-deal.

Government insiders and cabinet ministers believe that the PM has in recent weeks decided that jumping off the cliff may somehow have a softer landing than expected.

The key moment came in the days after the crushing 230-vote Commons defeat May suffered last month, as Brexiteers and Remainers united to reject her planned deal.

Acutely aware that the bulk of the 118 Tory MPs who voted against were Leavers, she was urged in a cabinet conference call to make peace with her party.

Chief whip Julian Smith and, crucially, party chairman Brandon Lewis made a forceful case that she had to find a way to accommodate her backbenches, rather than make a grand bargain with the official Labour opposition.

Smith had warned her before the vote that she would lose if she didn’t address MPs’ concerns about the so-called backstop for Northern Ireland, the guarantee in the deal to keep the province’s border open with Ireland through continuing alignment of EU rules.

A fortnight later, May was thrown a lifeline by her party after she agreed to ask Brussels for “alternative arrangements” that could win a parliamentary majority.

In recent days, May has more than ever bought into the Smith-Lewis argument that party unity has to come first, one source claims.

“She’s thrown all of her weight behind the chief whip. He’s telling her ‘your party is fucked if you do anything other than hold strong’.”

Despite a flicker of hope in recent days that May is reaching out to Jeremy Corbyn to seek common ground, few around her believe she will countenance the kind of “soft” Brexit – including some version of a UK-EU customs union – that Labour is demanding.

Even in her letter to Corbyn released on Sunday night, May signalled she was not budging from her red line that any customs union would undermine the UK’s future ability to strike independent trade deals with non-EU countries.

Two years ago, May was keeping her options open, rather than closing them down. Her first big Brexit speech, in the grand surroundings of Lancaster House in central London, allowed some wriggle room in its content, even if it pleased Eurosceptics with its hardline tone.

The man who wrote that speech was Chris Wilkins, the loyal aide who had 15 years earlier helped May draft her infamous “nasty party” speech that warned the Tories they had to reform and modernise to win back voters’ trust.

“The language in Lancaster House was really careful and said what matters here is the end not the means,” Wilkins says.

Most importantly, May said she wanted “a customs agreement with the EU”, possibly even becoming “an associate member of the customs union in some way” and stressed she could sign up to “some elements of it”. She had “no preconceived position”, she said, a phrase that reassured some Remainer Tories.

“Lancaster House quite deliberately does not say ‘no form of customs union’ because that was always the area of compromise where you could get Labour votes,” Wilkins adds.

“It was always clear you needed Labour votes, not just because you needed some kind of unified position, but also because the very thing Labour don’t want is any responsibility for Brexit.

“Politically you absolutely want to dip their hands in the blood, that would have been the sensible thing to have done.”

Even the party manifesto for 2017 still allowed room for manoeuvre on customs.

One insider says that contrary to the belief of some at Westminster, May had privately hoped that a sizeable victory would give her a way to stand up to her Brexiteers, rather than be held hostage by them.

“It felt quite clear where we were heading and that was the softest possible Brexit outside the single market, with a deal to be done was on a customs union. And it was merely a question of managing the process to get us there,” they say.

“Part of the point of the election was that if we’d got a bigger majority, we would have been able to make the compromises more readily.”

In the end, the shattering loss of the Tories’ majority appeared to severely restrict any prospect of a “hard” Brexit, simply because Labour and a handful of Conservative Remainers wouldn’t allow it.

And the enduring belief that May was heading in a pragmatic direction was constant, despite occasional licence given to Brexiteers in the cabinet.

In January 2018, on a trip with May to China, International Trade Secretary Liam Fox made plain his own red line. It wasn’t just the customs union that was the problem, it was a customs union of any kind.

“It is very difficult to see how being in a customs union is compatible with having an independent trade policy,” he told Bloomberg News.

When No.10 said Fox was speaking for the government, there was serious disquiet back in London among Remainer cabinet ministers, as well as the business community.

Ministers were calmed down, however, when May herself said she had “an open mind” about a customs “arrangement” with the EU.

In fact that pattern, of talking tough on Europe while in reality tilting towards a more moderate approach, is what has given pro-EU MPs of all stripes hope in recent months and weeks.

One former minister, who has long followed May’s career closely, tells HuffPost UK that the most encouraging version of May’s “modus operandi” on Europe was highlighted back in 2014.

At the time, the then home secretary had made a big play of opting out of 135 of the EU’s justice and home affairs rules. Stephen Parkinson, a long-time aide at the Home Office who later went on to help organise the Vote Leave campaign, was a noted Eurosceptic. Some MPs assumed Parkinson had finally influenced his boss to take a tougher stance with the EU. They were wrong.

It soon dawned on Eurosceptics that May was in fact going to opt back in to some key EU rules. The European Arrest Warrant in particular, which was loathed by Tory hardliners, won May’s strong support.

“I’ve always thought that justice and home affairs would be her strategy for this,” says the former minister.

“She talked tough, she was going to opt out of everything, it was all awful and Europe was awful. She had Dominic Raab [then a backbencher] on her back, Graham Brady, Mark Reckless and Jacob Rees-Mogg. So, she ramped up the rhetoric.

“And then in the end she opted back into about 35 of them. Her narrative was look, here’s all the 100 measures I’ve opted out of. But the 35 she opted back into were all the big ones, the European Arrest Warrant, all of the big databases.

“Most of them went along with it because they were just so exhausted by the process. They were so ground down and just glad it was resolved and ‘we’ve done something on Europe’. But the hard core were really angry with her.”

At one point, backed by David Cameron’s own desire to keep the hardline Eurosceptics in check, May even ridiculed Reckless (then a Tory MP before defecting to UKIP) in the Commons chamber, declaring it would be “reckless” to ditch key EU security arrangements.

The Eurosceptics were so furious that they even joined with Labour in trying to pull off an audacious move to ensure a vote on the European Arrest Warrant. Appalled at an attempt by Cameron and May to avoid a vote, Sir Bill Cash said the government had been “tainted with chicanery”.

In November 2014, Shadow Home Secretary Yvette Cooper called a surprise vote that ended with Cameron having to be dragged out of a white-tie event at the City’s Guildhall in order to fend off the rebellion. The government won by just nine votes.

“In the end, she took them on. She pandered to them until very late on, and then at the last minute she just effectively U-turned on all of her rhetoric, stayed with the solid, sensible security position and most of them went along with it, but the hard core were furious and felt betrayed,” said the former minister.

“I’ve always felt that she was trying to do the same thing again on Brexit. It’s why Rees-Mogg and others were so hostile and suspicious of her: we’ve seen this trick before, we can see what’s she’s doing.”

One Brexiteer former member of the cabinet says that the justice and home affairs opt-ins episode was more about May’s own rigid style of politics.

“She operates on tramlines and she doesn’t have a huge amount of agility.  Also she’s very easy to be picked off by officials, who say we are at risk of this or at risk of that, rather than think actually we can do it a different way. She’s overly deferential to the obvious, predictable civil service pitch. It cuts all the way through her career,” he says.

“There was a whole lot of trivial stuff she had worked out was redundant. What she didn’t take on was PRUM [a Europe-wide DNA database], data sharing, ECJ [European Court of Justice] jurisdiction, and she didn’t have the agility to say there’s a way of opting out of this by continuing to do it a different way.

“A lot of people did feel hoodwinked at the time. I just thought she was stubborn and her heart really wasn’t in it. She took a very technical approach and the civil servants always a gave a reason why it was technically difficult.”

Ever since she became prime minister, pro-EU MPs have been hoping May was again stringing along the hardline wing of her party on Europe.

The infamous Chequers meeting of the cabinet last summer cheered many of them up, as the PM backed “regulatory alignment” with the EU in any future trade deal.

She weathered the resignations of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson and David Davis. She then lost Davis’ successor Raab after deciding to push what looked like another soft Brexit compromise as she hammered out her withdrawal agreement with Brussels.

Then, as now, customs was the flashpoint. One Brussels source claims that May herself personally asked the EU to agree a key section that sought to “build on” a “single customs territory”. That line, along with other defects in the deal, prompted Raab to quit.

A senior MP adds: “Her rhetoric was really anti-customs, but she was actually leaning in private towards a customs union. And there was fury about the betrayal again.

“And at every point recently, I thought does she think she can just pull the same stunt again? End up doing some late U-turn, when everybody is so exhausted that she ends up with not such a hardline position.”

But several Tory Remainers, including trusted go-between Sir Oliver Letwin, have confided to colleagues that since the 230-vote defeat last month, May has entered into an irreversible pact with her Brexiteers.

“What worries me now is that it feels like something has changed,” says one MP. “It feels like she’s crossed a line now. She’s boxed herself so far in she’s lost any capacity to pivot, even though she might want to in her head, she’s stuck now.”

Even on May’s home turf of national security, where she defied her Eurosceptics to stay in the European Arrest Warrant, she has reluctantly had to agree to ‘mitigating’ measures for a no-deal outcome. This is despite the Cabinet being told by the head of MI5 Sir Andrew Parker of his concerns at the loss of UK-EU cooperation.

One Labour MP says: “Her strength has always been when she does those stern statements at times of national security crisis in parliament. She always got the judgement call right on the big serious terrorist incidents. So she could credibly do something quite strong on it [no-deal security warnings]. But it feels like when you look into her eyes, it’s like it’s gone.”

A former cabinet minister says that since the Commons backed the Graham Brady amendment on plans to explore Brexit alternatives, the mood has changed.

“It was quite an important moment for morale and morale is important in this place. People like to be supporting their prime minister. Very few people relish the opportunity to kick their prime minister,” he says. “I got the feeling it was a moment where the chief whip was being listened to more.”

A senior Brexiteer former minister adds: “The question will be now, similar to on the JHA [Justice and Home Affairs] stuff, this big issue of trust.

“She’s so difficult to read, but the key thing over everything else is her survival instincts - there’s nothing wrong with those. Credit where it’s due.

“She’s trying to navigate it week by week. I don’t think she will take a conscious decision, I think she will end up acquiescing in one or other form. And time is running out to get a Norway [soft Brexit] deal.”

One MP says that Tory Remainers are “in a state of gloom”.

“They think this is it now, that we are on a high percentage chance of just being in no-deal.”

After the Brady amendment passed to triumphant cheers from Leave-backing MPs, one cabinet minister texted a friend: “The wrong people are clapping.”

With any binding vote on stopping no-deal now unlikely to emerge until later this month, one Tory insider says the key factor has been that the PM is more afraid of her Brexiteers than Remainers.

Chief whip Julian Smith is understood to have counselled her that the danger will not come from pro-EU ministers thinking of quitting in protest.

One source says: “She’s been told – ‘You need to understand prime minister, it’s very simple maths – the ERG [European Research Group] will fuck you, fuck the Conservative party and they will throw themselves over a cliff. Your Remainer colleagues will not’. It’s who’s got the biggest balls.”

“The Remainers need a gameplan to show Julian [Smith] is wrong on this. At the moment, they are rolling over having tummies tickled. And she’s thrown all her weight behind the chief whip.

“She gets to save her party and potentially gets to live for another day. She will be the PM who delivered Brexit. She can blame Parliament and Tusk, Juncker and the EU [for no-deal] and say I managed it as best as anyone could.

“She’s home and dry as long as she sits tight with the Brexiteers who only a few weeks ago wanted her head. It’s utterly tragic.”

There are still some Remain-backing cabinet ministers who think that the PM will get her deal done. They also believe that the closer we get to March 29 without a deal, the more likely parliament will pass a binding vote to block such a scenario.

“I have always thought she doesn’t think four steps ahead, that’s not the way she thinks or operates,” one cabinet minister says.

“I’m sure she hasn’t thought of a plan to either pivot to Labour or to leave without a deal. She concentrates completely on the step in front of her and that’s what she’s doing right now in trying to get a deal. She’s doing it very sincerely.”

This minister also thinks that May has too much of a “sense of personal responsibility” to allow the huge job losses no-deal could entail. As for the party splitting over any move to back a customs union, he adds that’s overdone. “Where would they [the Brexiteers] go?”

Still, some in the party believe the key factor is that after the sizeable no-confidence vote in December (37% of her MPs voted to oust her), May now knows her days in No.10 are numbered.

Her plan to be a PM who tackled “burning injustices” has been replaced by a determination to just get Brexit delivered, no matter how.

“She used to say my legacy will not be Brexit, I want to deliver for the just-about-managings, to do the things I’ve wanted to do for 30 years in my political career, the lives I want to change,” says one ex-staffer. “And now they are absolutely consumed by it [Brexit] and they can’t see the wood from the trees.

“I used to think it was a good thing she never had any strong ideological links, that she was she was pragmatic and would balance up either side of the argument. But what was her asset is now a massive flaw. She will go wherever the wind takes her.

“A lot of people are in despair. The sensible ones have their head in their hands, the nutters we kept at the door for 40 odd years are now in control. We thought they were dead after they didn’t get rid of her. They are back in control, because they are willing to blow the house up.”

If the parliamentary and diplomatic impasse continues, May is expected to seek a short delay to Brexit to June at the latest.

But if no agreement is possible, she’s indeed ready to take the UK out without a deal, one official said. They gently  point out that the PM only ever talks of “the risk” of “no Brexit at all”, not ever the reality of it.

Some in Whitehall have been told that No.10 strategy and communications chief Robbie Gibb, a committed Leaver, has floated the prospect of leaving his role this summer, once Brexit is finally delivered.

Recent party research from polling and focus groups has played a key role too. The message from a large chunk of Leave voters is that they want a “clean Brexit”.

Those who have worked closest with May say that it should not be forgotten that she places a high value on listening to public concerns about immigration, concerns that drove many people to vote Leave in 2016.

“The reason immigration is such a big thing for her is that it’s emblematic of a political class doing one thing in defiance of what the country said,” one source says.

“Brexit for her has now become that big, and that’s why she’s prepared to contemplate no-deal because ultimately it’s about delivering what people want.

“The No.10 research tells them that her ratings are stronger than ever now because she is the grown up in the room who is delivering what people want.

“People are basically saying we voted to Leave and if that means no-deal then leave means leave. And I think she’s swayed by that because of this point about politicians being trusted. But actually politics is also about showing leadership, not just responding to research.”

One former cabinet minister insists that “the clarity of no-deal is very, very popular among my constituents”.

“To understand Theresa May now on Europe, look at her DNA. And her DNA is made up of two things: one, she was the home secretary with an obsession about immigration which is matched by even few hard Brexiteers; two, she was party chairman and splitting the party is absolutely unthinkable for her.”

Crucially, MPs say she has responded to the message hammered home by the current party chairman and chief whip - that it’s time to start listening to elected Conservatives rather than advisers.

“It’s amazing that Julian has any influence because he’s been a disaster as chief whip, absolutely hopeless,” says one source. “But it is now politicians who have stepped in to take control and that’s where the party imperative is being pushed from.”

One old hand adds: “I’ve always taken the view that ultimately she is too pragmatic to be ever contemplate a no-deal scenario. But I underestimated her attachment to the Conservative party and the extent to which she, and indeed Philip, are steeped in the party.

“The whole idea was she was supposed to be a prime minister for the whole of the country. Actually, her instincts when you really test them are very Conservative party orientated.”

Some Tory Brexiteers are still wary of a final “pivot” or “betrayal” by May, though many are cheerfully counting down the days to no-deal.

But for Chris Wilkins, her former speechwriter, the consequences of quitting the EU without agreement will haunt the Tories long after May has left No.10.

“You hope there’s some very clever strategy going on, but there’s a fear that the public’s focus on getting Brexit done and the attachment to the unity of the Conservative party is potentially driving us to a no-deal scenario,” he says.

“That may feel good in the short term but would have long-term extremely damaging consequences for the party.

“Because of the lack of preparedness and the chaos that would ensue, any last semblance that the Tory party is at least competent, even if you don’t like them, would go out of the window.”
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13787 on: February 11, 2019, 09:10:20 pm »
Just watched the 2nd episode of Inside Europe on BBC. Fascinating and in my opinion a credit to the BBC. I will say though, it is renewing my anger and disappointment over leaving the EU. I had calmed down for a while, but I am back to square one.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13788 on: February 11, 2019, 09:15:50 pm »
It's being reported that May is seriously contemplating a No Deal Brexit because she is placing party unity above the country.

The substantive article is in the Huffington Post (which I won't link or visit because of their Oath system) but someone here might be OK with it and see what the evidence is. Apparently internal polls and focus groups indicate she is more popular when flagging no-deal.

Not very surprising, if true. What a catastrophe.

Can’t be true. First, she voted Remain. Second, she hates the idea of the E.R.G getting their way. Third, she’s a deeply religious and therefore moral, individual.

In all seriousness, her loyalty is and always has been to Party. She’s an exceptionally blinkered and stubborn person - as well as being a true lightweight as a politician.

She’ll probably salve her own conscience by telling herself she’s saving the country from the disaster of a Corbyn government. (And conveniently ignore that her husband’s murky business interests would best be served by a No Deal Brexit).
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13789 on: February 11, 2019, 09:28:48 pm »
If we get a No Deal then Remainers like Rudd, Clark, Hammond, Gauke and co are as much to blame as anyone.

Add to that those Labour MP’s who voted against and abstained from Coopers bill. They had a chance to take control and they didnt.

These MP’s need hounding and a reckoning. They need a No Deal for the public to really turn on the lot of them.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13790 on: February 11, 2019, 09:39:38 pm »
Also rumours of a May election now too. So meh.

Here's the HuffPost for you though. (It's long.)

Spoiler
[close]

The Lancaster House speech that Chris Wilkins wrote didn't have the intended effect. For many people, it's the moment when she set out her red lines that screwed the whole negotiations. They don't recall it for its supposedly carefully written wording with regards to a/the customs union/arrangement.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13791 on: February 11, 2019, 09:50:06 pm »
If we get a No Deal then Remainers like Rudd, Clark, Hammond, Gauke and co are as much to blame as anyone.

Add to that those Labour MP’s who voted against and abstained from Coopers bill. They had a chance to take control and they didnt.

These MP’s need hounding and a reckoning. They need a No Deal for the public to really turn on the lot of them.


They wont be though.

I want to say that if we end up with a No Deal then this country deserves everything it's got coming to it, but no - millions of people suffering as our economy is butt fucked by the likes of Trump's America is a frightening prospect all on its own.  Throw in No Deal and we're staring into the abyss, and the most vulnerable will be hit fastest and hardest. :'(
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13792 on: February 11, 2019, 09:58:33 pm »
No-deal is just madness, buit that's what happens when you bow to extremists.


Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13793 on: February 11, 2019, 10:09:00 pm »
If we get a No Deal then Remainers like Rudd, Clark, Hammond, Gauke and co are as much to blame as anyone.

Add to that those Labour MP’s who voted against and abstained from Coopers bill. They had a chance to take control and they didnt.

These MP’s need hounding and a reckoning. They need a No Deal for the public to really turn on the lot of them.
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Offline Ghost Town

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13794 on: February 11, 2019, 10:11:26 pm »
No-deal is just madness, buit that's what happens when you bow to extremists.
And yet even now seemingly intelligent people are saying that we need to appease the thickies and the racists and the ignorant and the thugs because 'they might riot' or something.

Fuck 'em! Just revoke A50 now, already! Let the the trogs and the racists and the mewling Brexit quims do their worst, and sit back and watch the armed forces deal with them.

#catharsis
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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13795 on: February 11, 2019, 10:24:41 pm »
Quote
I am told @Keir_Starmer is not the happiest member of the frontbench.  According to multiple sources, he had agreed that the final part of Corbyn’s letter to May would say “if you do not accept this [Brexit offer] there will be a People’s Vote”. One source...

tells me “LOTO [the leader of the opposition] agreed to this. But then Keir discovered after the letter had been sent and published that the People’s Vote para had gone”. Starmer “called LOTO and was told ‘oh we must have forgotten that paragraph’”. Apparently Starmer’s...

“Forgotten”

Fucking liars.
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Offline killer-heels

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13796 on: February 11, 2019, 10:25:17 pm »
And yet even now seemingly intelligent people are saying that we need to appease the thickies and the racists and the ignorant and the thugs because 'they might riot' or something.

Fuck 'em! Just revoke A50 now, already! Let the the trogs and the racists and the mewling Brexit quims do their worst, and sit back and watch the armed forces deal with them.

#catharsis

I think intelligence is in short supply.

You have Labour MP’s tweeting about why May wont rule out No Deal and they were the ones that abstained from extending Article 50.

These are the supposed sensible ones as well and not the Corbyn followers.

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13797 on: February 11, 2019, 10:29:30 pm »
Quote
Theresa May hopes to convince the House of Commons on Tuesday to give her another fortnight’s grace to keep pushing for changes to the Irish backstop – despite the insistence of Michel Barnier that it is Britain that must compromise.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/11/may-to-ask-mps-for-further-fortnights-grace-in-brexit-talks

Running the ball into the corner when you're 1 nil down from an own goal.


Offline ShakaHislop

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13798 on: February 11, 2019, 10:36:33 pm »
Running the ball into the corner when you're 1 nil down from an own goal.

Quote
May’s hopes of cobbling together a majority were boosted on Monday as Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson said he would be willing to accept a deal with a time-limited backstop. The former foreign secretary told a meeting in parliament: “I think it must be pretty obvious that if you are going to have a time limit to the backstop – and I think that would be very good – it has got to fall before the next election.”

How is she "boosted" by Johnson agreeing to back her as long as she gets something that's not on offer?

Quote
It emerged on Monday that an earlier draft of Corbyn’s letter to the prime minister last week, which was initially drawn up by Starmer, included a reference to a referendum, but it was removed during the editing process.

Asked about the claim by journalists in Dublin on Monday, Starmer said: “The letter was an agreed letter that went out. We’ve now got a response from the prime minister. The critical question is: is she, in her response, indicating a willingness to drop her red lines or not?”

Oh, get a spine Keir.

Offline The Gulleysucker

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Re: Brexit thread with Lefties, Tories, bloods, wastoids, Dweebs & dickheads.....?
« Reply #13799 on: February 11, 2019, 10:39:12 pm »

It seems to confirm our worst fears and what some of us have been saying and known all along, that there are some in the inner circle who would undoubtedly prefer a hard brexit than offering the slightest chance of a peoples vote that would stop the whole thing.

This is their opportunity, a Win Win for Milne & the others that see and have always seen the EU as the big bad Capitalist anti-worker bogeyman, we'll be out of Europe with no ties so a year zero opportunity for the  Anarcho-Corbynism project, while the deleterious results of a hard Brexit itself can be (and obviously will be by the usual truth benders) wholly be blamed on the Tories.

Bastards seems a wholly inadequate word to describe these people.
I don't do polite so fuck yoursalf with your stupid accusations...

Right you fuckwit I will show you why you are talking out of your fat arse...

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