Author Topic: Our inability to score late goals  (Read 1605 times)

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Our inability to score late goals
« on: December 13, 2017, 10:32:22 pm »
Since Sadio Mané's last-minute winner at Goodison this time last year, we've only scored four equalising or winning goals in the last half an hour of matches:

Can vs Burnley (61' - just!)
Coutinho & Firmino vs Stoke (70' & 72')
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Mané vs Palace (73')

Going strictly by the laws, Solanke's strike tonight almost certainly wasn't intentional handball and thus tonight should have been one to add to the list, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find many referees who wouldn't have given that. Either way, we shouldn't be relying on one or two chances to beat dross like this.

Now, granted, that stat needs at least one piece of context applied: we're a side which tends to take the lead more often than we do go down (as is the case for the majority of good sides). But given our propensity to throw away these leads, as well as find ourselves nullified in certain games like tonight, where the hell have the late winners or equalisers gone? It's little wonder our players and fans alike have little belief going into the final stages of matches with a record like that.

The bizarre thing is that this is under a manager who, from day one, made it his one-man mission to change the vibe of the crowd and the confidence and belief of his players in these scenarios. When our fans flooded out of the stadium with the scoreline 1-1 at home to Southampton, he said he'd never felt so alone. Six weeks later, he made his players celebrate arm-in-arm when Divock Origi merely equalised in the 96th minute against tonight's opponents. He was mocked at the time from outsiders, but those of us on the inside had an acute sense of his intentions. And those intentions helped set off a chain reaction: Joe Allen's late equaliser in the 3-3 against Arsenal; Adam Lallana's unforgettable last-gasp winner in the 4-5 at Carrow Road; and of course those delirious scenes when Dejan Lovren headed in to conquer Dortmund. (There were even a few late equalisers/winners from the much-maligned Christan Benteke along the way!)

The message couldn't be clearer: Liverpool are never done in any football match.

Precisely where has this all evaporated to? Why are Klopp's subs so consistently late; his lack of in-game management so consistently galling? Tonight was an unfortunate example: not only did he leave it until the 75th minute to make his first changes, he subsequently decided to sub a right-back with a right-back. Granted, Gomez's cross for Solanke's would-be winner was a delightful one. But surely Oxlade-Chamberlain or Milner on the overlap from that position would have posed a more consistent and potent threat in those dying stages?

Of course, this goes beyond the manager. The players very much take responsibility alongside him. Why do they pass so slowly & take so many touches, allowing opponents to settle into shape? Why do certain players, most notably Firmino and Wijnaldum, absolve themselves of a fundamental responsibility in terms of receiving the ball in tight spaces? Why is everything so regularly left to Coutinho to orchestrate from deep when we need his composure closer to goal?

I love this manager, and I love some of these players. But they and the crowd collectively need to be collectively braver and seize the initiate. A late winner or two - should we require it - over this hectic period could galvanise our season. Because if we are to achieve our ground-floor goal of finishing in the top four this campaign, this pattern of dominating matches either from the outset or simply not all cannot continue.

Offline AndreTheMidget

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2017, 11:07:39 pm »
It's a weird one. The late winners at Swansea and Everton last season really felt like they were coming too, both of those sides were knackered after 45mins chasing us and even if we weren't creating shit loads they were penned in so much you knew something was going to go our way. Doesn't really feel that way anymore even if teams are penned in a bit. Not sure what the problem is. If Jurgen Klopp can't work it out then I sure as hell wont be!

Offline LallanaInPyjamas

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2017, 09:41:11 am »
The late winners at Swansea and Everton last season really felt like they were coming too, both of those sides were knackered after 45mins chasing us and even if we weren't creating shit loads they were penned in so much you knew something was going to go our way.

Completely agree, particularly the Swansea game. We didn't play particularly well in either of those two games you mention either, and yet we still managed to build some momentum late on. And against Everton that was in spite of the same bad refereeing decisions and negative tactics we're coming up against right now.

It just feels like we've regressed massively in this regard when, with Salah on board to stretch teams, we should have improved. We're never going to significantly progress if games are all but dead once they reach the 60 or 70 minute mark.

Online Clint Eastwood

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 10:11:16 am »
I hate it when we sub Solanke/Sturridge on for Mane/Salah. Happens most games and our attack dies shortly after. There was a game, I forget which one, but we were pushing quite hard for a winner and it was looking imminent. We brought on Solanke and we didn't have a sniff for the rest of the game. There's something about having Firmino and a striker on the pitch which just doesn't work.

Offline AndreTheMidget

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2017, 10:18:14 am »
Completely agree, particularly the Swansea game. We didn't play particularly well in either of those two games you mention either, and yet we still managed to build some momentum late on. And against Everton that was in spite of the same bad refereeing decisions and negative tactics we're coming up against right now.

It just feels like we've regressed massively in this regard when, with Salah on board to stretch teams, we should have improved. We're never going to significantly progress if games are all but dead once they reach the 60 or 70 minute mark.

It is really odd. Like you say we've got Salah now, and while not much of a goal threat Ox is energetic and can sling a decent cross in etc. It seems unexplainable why we've suddenly regressed at this. Is it we aren't running/pressing as much and oppo aren't tired as much? Dunno, that sounds ridiculously simplistic. But these teams should be coming here and having to face an absolute barrage if we are level late on but it feels like we just peter out to nothing, whereas you watch an Arsenal, City game and you just know the late goal is usually coming. Could really do with getting over some demons at Bournemouth and getting a late winner but with our history against them it'll probably go the other way.  ;D

Offline Funky_Gibbons

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 10:20:26 am »
I wonder where we sit stats wise with scoring early goals compared to everyone else in the league.

It seems to me we're a team that are set-up to blitz teams in the opening 20-30 minutes of each half. I don't think we have the energy levels to maintain that into the last 15-20 minutes.   
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Offline ManiacKop

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2017, 10:24:18 am »
Late goals is an art. Patience. Belief. Sometimes we lack both of these.

Like us in the 80s, United in the 90s and city this season, it’s all about believing and knowing you will win. The opposition sits further back and clings on with each second dragging on.
With us, we attack wary that the opposition can counter themselves so it’s a little more reserved. We lack that winning mentality and teams don’t fear us as they once did.
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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2017, 10:26:57 am »
Late goals is an art. Patience. Belief. Sometimes we lack both of these.


You need these attributes both on and off the pitch.

Too many people lose their heads from 60 minutes onwards if we aren't winning at home. That's both on the pitch and in the stands. Think both feed off each other and we tend to lose shape and discipline in how we attack later in games.
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Offline Yanwoo

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 10:27:00 am »
I wonder where we sit stats wise with scoring early goals compared to everyone else in the league.

It seems to me we're a team that are set-up to blitz teams in the opening 20-30 minutes of each half. I don't think we have the energy levels to maintain that into the last 15-20 minutes.

I dug out something about that yesterday. We've only won 3 (/14) games (Maribor, Huddersfield and Palace) all season where we didn't score in the first 35 minutes (that is a somewhat cherry picked time....).

edit: compared with 7(/15) for Spurs, and 10(/22) for Man City for example.

Liverpool: 21%
Spurs: 47%
Man City: 45%
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 10:31:37 am by Yanwoo »

Online Barrowred

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2017, 11:39:56 am »
Late goals is an art. Patience. Belief. Sometimes we lack both of these.

Like us in the 80s, United in the 90s and city this season, it’s all about believing and knowing you will win. The opposition sits further back and clings on with each second dragging on.
With us, we attack wary that the opposition can counter themselves so it’s a little more reserved. We lack that winning mentality and teams don’t fear us as they once did.

Totally agree with the above, and will also add the players need to be mentally tough. The only player IMO who we have had over the last 15 years who fits that bill is Gerrard.

How many games over that period of time have we gone behind in and never really looked like coming back because the players themselves don't look like they believe they can?

Online Kashinoda

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 11:45:13 am »
I think we don't throw caution to the wind because we fear being caught out like we have been so often. Possibly a tactical choice from the Manager too (see like for like subs).

It's a balance, you can blame it on mentality, belief etc. and they are factors, but it's a bit one-note to blame it on that.
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Offline stevensr123

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Re: Our inability to score late goals
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2017, 12:58:37 pm »
I think we don't throw caution to the wind because we fear being caught out like we have been so often. Possibly a tactical choice from the Manager too (see like for like subs).

It's a balance, you can blame it on mentality, belief etc. and they are factors, but it's a bit one-note to blame it on that.
I think the manager has definitely installed them to be calm and patient no matter what, which has helped recently in terms of the defence.

Need to find a balance though because I was fuming against everton with the half arsed effort towards the end - we acted like we was 3-0 up and strolling around.
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